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Comments on Gadfly's Review

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Gadfly Thursday, April 8th, 2004
Period of
Product Use:
Less than a month16 of 65 people found this review helpful.

Paintball
Experience:
More than 5 years
Similar
Products Used:
Spyder Electra DX, Brass Eagle Rain Maker, Nasty Impulse, MacDev Cyborg, Dye Matrix, WGP Oracle
Marker Setup: Angel A4 Graphite Dust (still waiting for exchange)
High Pressure Maxflow with 68/4500
Clear VL Evolution II with Z-board
Recommended
Upgrades:
Anything to make it work would be nice
Strengths: Nice looking manual, good paper with color photos
Box looks good
Weaknesses: DOA out of the box
Bad support
Review: After hearing so much about how good Angel markers are, I finally gave in and plunked down some hard earned cash for a brand new Angel A4. In the process, I had sold my prized Nasty Impulse marker.

I was excited when I first received the marker. I opened and box like a little kid and giggled uncontrollablely to my wife's amazement. My smile soon faded when I saw the big scratch marks along the side of beautiful graphite dust finish. One spot as so deep and big, it was almost an inch long, and the silver aluminum can be easily seen even from a distance. Undaunted, I picked up the manual to read. I read the whole thing twice. The manual seemed to be well written, and it was in nice heavy paper and printed in color.

The manual instructed to charge the marker for 4 hours before first time use. I took it out to the garage, and plugged it into my new 2004 Honda. The red light lit up on the cigar adapter, meaning it had power going to it; I then plugged it into the marker. The LCD screen on the marker blinked with a beeping sound, and it continued to flash "LP V2" and full screen of garbage. I thought it was normal, and left it charging overnight. The next morning, about 8 hours later, I went to the car and unplugged the charger. However, the marker would not turn on, because the battery display on LCD showed no charge. Confused, I plugged it in my 2002 Montero, and the same beeping with flashing display happened. I went back and read the manual again, but could find nothing. I left it running, and went to a local paintball shop to pick up an Angel wall charger for $40. After I get back, I plugged the marker into the wall charger. It showed the same thing. I left it running for another 6 hours, and it still had not charged.

I went to WDP website, and could not find any number to call support. I used the online support and emailed them. Three days later, I got an email from WDP support asking for the serial number on my marker. They also suggested that both of my car batteries could be faulty! I have not had any problem with my cars, and they both came out of the dealer WORKING, unlike the $1100 marker I just bought. I emailed the support guy back with a serial number. Two days later, he responded that I should use an OLD Angel LCD battery to "shock" the battery to "wake it up". First, if that was a solution, then they should ship the charger with the marker. Second, how could they expect the customer to fix their dead battery without offering to replace it? I emailed him back saying that I did not own such charger. It has been another two days and no response.

It's either the email support, or call one of the five Angel warranty centers in U.S. The warranty in the manual said nothing about the location of the warranty centers. I had to find that information from the web. However, none of the warranty centers are any where close to where I live. I do not feel that I should pay $15 to ship a brand new marker to one of those centers just to get it to work. The only help I got as from Angel Owners message group. I posted on the forum to ask for help, and one of the master Angel techs responded. I spoke to the master Angel tech on the phone, and he tried to fix the problem over the phone. We tried a few things, and did not work.

I contacted the store I bought the marker from, and they admitted that they have had many problems with Angel A4 lately. They even bought additional chargers because so many stock chargers were bad. They sent me a return shipping label to send the marker back for exchange. However, I would not have the marker back for another two weeks. I have not received the replacement marker yet. Maybe this time I will get lucky with a working marker with no scratch.
Conclusion: Marker was already scratched out of the box, right side screw as missing too on the trigger. I had Spyders in better conditions right out of the box.

Only 6 month warranty?! Smart Parts Impulse was $400, and had the same warranty.
Took a long time for email support to respond.

This was my first Angel, and probably my last. I would recommend another marker over this. Don't buy into the hype. If you have to buy one, get it local or from a well known dealer. You are not getting better warranty or service just because you paid more.
As for performance? I do not know, since mine was DOA.

WDP does not seem to care about their customer. Paintball industry has a lot of catching up to do in this area in general. For example, I bought a Dell Workstation for $1000 a few months ago. The monitor came with a faulty pixel. I called Dell support, and they sent a brand new one the next day! Now that's service.

I give this product a 2 for the nice looking box it came in, and the colorful manual.
Rating:
2 out of 10Last edited on Thursday, April 8th, 2004 at 9:10 pm PST
 

Review Comments
                            
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golai Friday, April 9th, 2004 | 5:05 am PST
That is really horrible. Hope you get it worked out. If you have the option of returning it, I would strongly recommend an Alias Intimidator. Some of those appear to have had problems out of the box, but by all accounts the manufacturer was responsive and repaired them quickly.
   

xxironmenxx Friday, April 9th, 2004 | 8:05 am PST
yes i understand ive had alot of problems with my A4 and im really starting to hate it but when it works its a nice gun and the batt and board ar frying for the 3rd time right now so im just going to put a timmy board in it and ahh yes thats the worse part you cant return it and it takes abut 3 weeks to get back when u ship it to WDP to get fixed
Last edited on Friday, April 9th, 2004 at 8:07 am PST
   

Uziel Gal Friday, April 9th, 2004 | 2:41 pm PST
I don't know what is happening with WDP's customer service at the moment. I have also been considering one of the new Angels - either a Speed, and A4 or a Fly A4 (though your experience is making me think twice about it). I e-mailed them with some questions, and after a week or two, no response. So I e-mailed them again. Another week or two later, I received an automated receipt telling me that both e-mails had been deleted without being read..... Oh well, it looks like WDP don't want my money after all.
   

Gadfly Friday, April 9th, 2004 | 2:47 pm PST
I am still waiting to get the replacement marker back. In the main time, I have seen posting on www.angel-owners.com from people with same battery/charger problem on their brand new A4s. If the second marker come broken again, I am going to dispute it with my credit card company and get my money back. I just feel bad that the store I bought from may have to eat all the cost. I will update this thread with more information. Don't forget to vote for my review if you think it was informative.
   

Carthage Monday, April 12th, 2004 | 4:10 pm PST
#1 The scratch is not WDP's fault. That's shipping.
#2 you had an issue with the battery, big deal. It's happened to a few other people and seems to be a fairly rare problem as EVERY other review has given it a 9-10.
#3 You obviously didn't buy this marker for the warrenty or else you would've bought the Force 4 with a lifetime warrenty.

You gave it a 2 because of a battery issue... nice job blowing things out of proportion.
   

Gadfly Monday, April 12th, 2004 | 4:52 pm PST
#1 The scratch is not WDP's fault. That's shipping.

The box came factory shrink wraped. There weren't any scratches or marks on the box. How could the scratch on the marker be cause by shipping when the box had no mark at all? Plus, there are layers of foam on top and under the marker, something would have to go under that to cause the scratch. Please explain the physics behind your reasoning.

#2 you had an issue with the battery, big deal. It's happened to a few other people and seems to be a fairly rare problem as EVERY other review has given it a 9-10.

Yes, I had problem with warranty; and yes, it happens. But you were not the person who paid for a $1200 marker and had to wait 2 weeks just for email responses from WDP, and still did not offer to exchange the battery.

#3 You obviously didn't buy this marker for the warrenty or else you would've bought the Force 4 with a lifetime warrenty.

So your reasoning is that if I did not pay $1500 for a Angel Force 4, then I am not entitiled to a working new product right out of the box? Again, you were not the person who paid good money for a defective product. My experience with WDP product is 0/1. 2/10 score was high according to my ratio. If you don't like my score, then input your own. God bless democracy.
Last edited on Monday, April 12th, 2004 at 4:53 pm PST
   

Mcbane Monday, April 12th, 2004 | 9:52 pm PST
This is gonna seem stupid but the same thing happened to me. When you charged it you did turn the angel on and then put the charger in. I'm not trying to make u look stupid or anything but I know that I did the same thing and no I did not read the manual the first time I got my gun. I'm more of a trial and error person lol
   

Gadfly Tuesday, April 13th, 2004 | 4:14 pm PST
I read the entire manual many times. And yes, I have turned the marker on. As matter of fact, I tried turn it on first, then plug into charger; or plug in charger first, then turn it on. Like I said before, even after spoken to an Angel master tech on the phone, he could not fix it over the phone. He recommended sending it back or get an older Angel charger.
   

Gadfly Thursday, April 15th, 2004 | 9:12 pm PST
If your IQ is as high as your age, you would not need to resort to name calling to make your point. By the way, you probably meant "you" when you typed "u"?
Had you read my comment above, you would know that turning on the marker was not the case. Not to mention I even spoke to a WDP master tech on the phone about it. Again, my review was already high considering it was DOA. (It meants Dead On Arrival). I was also perfectly calm when I wrote the review. So thank you for your concerns.
If I used too many big words, please feel free to visit www.dictionary.com.
   

Mcbane Sunday, April 18th, 2004 | 9:18 pm PST
Hey I specifically said I was not trying to make you look dumb. All I and every one who is posted here is just trying to help. I know my Angel 4 hasn't worked for a couple months and I think I finally got it to work, so I am not to happy with WDP either I mean I think I put at least 120 dollars into stores just looking at the gun for 4 months then "fixing" it. So you could either send it to them if you haven't done that already or sell it. And no you didn't use any big words that I cant understand.
Last edited on Sunday, April 18th, 2004 at 9:21 pm PST
   

Hekrill Wednesday, April 21st, 2004 | 1:16 pm PST
even worse problems do not deserve a two. a 7 or 8 maybe, but 2?
   

cveale Friday, April 23rd, 2004 | 3:12 pm PST
A very small percentage of every manufacturers markers are DOA from factory. This is unfortunate and I am very sorry it happened to you Gadfly, but I don't think that this should reflect on the markers PERFORMANCE when you really can't review a gun you haven't had the chance to fire much yet. It would be like getting a Ferrari that was not running from the factory and then saying all Ferraris are crap without even driving one.
   

Gadfly Friday, April 30th, 2004 | 2:35 pm PST
I don't think you can compare it to cars. First, when was the last time you bought a new car and it won't even start in dealer's lot? That simplely does not happen, not even on cheap cars like Kia.

Second, that battery problem did not happen to just my marker, it happened to almost 10% new A4 Angels according to the vendor. If the same problem happened to cars, the manufacturer would have made a mass recall.

Third, when you pay $1100 for a marker, you would expect it to at least work. I am not even talking about performance. I just expected the marker to turn on. Quality control was obviously not a strong point for this company.

Forth, support was very poor for a high price marker. The company is probably making 40% to 50% profit on this item. Dell only makes about 10% profit on their new computers. However, Dell was able to replace broken parts for free with next day air, should their computer be DOA.

Again, my experience was 0/10 overall. The vendor had made no effort to replace a defective product. So my 2/10 rating was high considering the circumstances.
   

keeptrying56 Saturday, May 1st, 2004 | 10:48 am PST
I agree cveale. This review has nothing to do with Marker performance and is a little harsh. I know it's frustrating to not have a gun work right out of the box. That being said, I think you should have got the gun working played with it and then gave it a fair review. Bottom line, this is one of the finest Markers on the market right now.
   

Gadfly Tuesday, May 11th, 2004 | 10:47 pm PST
I never had a chance to use a working Angel A4. Firstcallpaintball was a real pain to deal with to exchange the marker. I finally fed up with it, and cancel the whole thing. They even tried to charge for restocking fee for defective items. I am still disputing the charges with the help of BBB and credit card company.

I ended up buying an Angel A4 Fly from ActionVillage. The price at ActionVillage may be a bit more expensive, but their customer service was top notch. A4 Fly is a really nice marker. I am not taking back my original review of A4, because I never had the chance to use a working one.

Because Paintball sport is such a small nitch market, some paintball vendors and manufacturers think they can get away with poor customer service and sub-standard products. That's one of the reason paintball continues to be an obscure sport, with the same forgiving customer base who puts up with poor service and high price.
   

ShockSniper Thursday, May 13th, 2004 | 2:57 pm PST
If you are up set with the customer service of the store you bought the marker at why don't you post a review with that company/store instead of saying it's all WDP fault, and giving a great product a bad review.
   

Gadfly Thursday, May 13th, 2004 | 10:12 pm PST
Because it was defective product from WDP, and poor support service eventually lead to this. If the product worked, I would not have to return it to the vendor. If WDP customer support was good, I would not have to wait days and end up have to deal with the seller. Any reputable company should have replaced defective product promptly. Again, this is where paintball industry differs from mainstream business.

As far was your comment about great product, it may be true for you. But for me, it was a DOA product which I paid over $1100, and after 30 days still do not have a working replacement. So for me, it was a good review for a bad product.
   

paulskate Saturday, May 15th, 2004 | 1:14 pm PST
This has nothing to do with gun, it is with the company u bought from. My a4 was awesome.
   

Gadfly Monday, May 17th, 2004 | 5:19 pm PST
It had everything to do with the company. If the marker was working when I received it, there would be no problem. If their customer service fix the problem or replace the bad marker, I would not have had any problem with the reseller.

Your analogy would like this:

If you buy a brand new car, and the car would not drive off the dealer parking lot, and you are saying it was the dealer's fault, not the car manufacturer's fault.
   

pballmanrules Sunday, May 30th, 2004 | 1:50 pm PST
quote:
Originally posted by Gadfly
It had everything to do with the company. If the marker was working when I received it, there would be no problem. If their customer service fix the problem or replace the bad marker, I would not have had any problem with the reseller.

Your analogy would like this:

If you buy a brand new car, and the car would not drive off the dealer parking lot, and you are saying it was the dealer's fault, not the car manufacturer's fault.


But you said up there you cant really compare it with cars.
   
                            
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