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smith30in Wednesday, June 2nd, 2004
The accuracy of this review is disputed. Please see discussion below.
Period of
Product Use:
3 months7 of 13 people found this review helpful.

Paintball
Experience:
3 years
Similar
Products Used:
classic mag, minimag , other markers but none that really compare
Marker Setup: RT ULE custom (black stainless RT PF HL mainbody , inteliframe w/ blade trigger, standard ASSY trigger pull) aluminum pure energy 48/3000, black evilution loader, stock barrel
Recommended
Upgrades:
boomstick , ULE trigger pull (maybe, its not a prefurence of mine) , small drop forward like a PMI flame , unless you have an aluminum tank , in which case get a dead on pro blade or some other large drop, and a fast loader
Strengths: fastest mech there is , built like a tank, ultra low maintanence, easy to repare, reliable
Weaknesses: accuracy
Review: ok, heres the thing, this is THE front players gun, its reliable to the core, its built like a tank (for all those dramatic dives, slides and leaps...you could probably land on the gun...but for 500, i wouldnt suggest it...), it has great handling thanks to the x-valve as the weight reduction in the back breaks mags reputation for being back heavy, its very fast , and you dont have to worry with walking the trigger while your moving up and providing your own covery fire. accuracy is an issue, a better barrel will help to a degree, but the blow forward bolt system is not the best for accuracy, its not bad, its about the same accuracy of a tippmann A-5, its just not as good as other high end markers. speed is great, the trigger pull is 2 lbs and then it pushes your fingers forward with 4 lbs , resulting in a very high rait of fire that will keep up with most electros (not all, but a large majority),i was holding a steady 14 bps with bursts of 18 or so, this is due to the fact that the x-valve is made out of aluminum instead of the stainless steel retrovalve, since the series 7000 aluminum is roughly 1/2 the weight of stainless steel, the internals move faster as they still hold the same amount of pressure that the retro valve holds, therefore, less weight for the pressure to push allowing faster cycling.its not a huge difference over the retrovalve, but it is noticeable....get the y-grip if you get this marker, its not a prefurence of mine (too unconventional) but its a good idea, and it improves the ballance considerably, also get a ULE mainbody, i prefure the solidness of stainless steel, but thats just me, and as i said , steel is roughly 2.5 times the weight of aluminum and it will cut down on the weight by quite a bit. also i could suggest the ULE trigger pull , you can shortstroke if your not careful (which is one reason why i didnt get it) but with practice it shouldnt be a constant issue. also remember with the level ten, you can run the lowest quality paint through it when you want a little cheap practice.
Conclusion: i could recomend this gun to front players and midplayers, but not back players, the accuracy issue is too big a deal to use this gun in the back...it can be done, but i wouldnt suggest it.. if you want to play back , i suggest getting an orracle (as i will be getting within the next few weeks.....i'm actually a front player, but my team mates want me to take back as i am the best for that position )... i give this gun a 9 because it is (in my opinion ) the best front players gun there is (with exception to emags and xmags, but only because they have a manual override if you want to turn off the electronics and just use the valve so you wont have to wory with walking the trigger while moving up to the 50).. but if you play back, go with an orracle...

Rating:
9 out of 10
 

Review Comments
                            
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sonnemann Wednesday, June 2nd, 2004 | 9:47 am PST
You make some good points, but one thing with which I have a major issue is your theory of accuracy. The blow-forward system is not inherently inaccurate, nor is the blow-back of an A5...accuracy relies upon many different factors, but the manner in which the bolt operates is not one of them. A Matrix, which is probably in the top 3 highest-end gun list, uses a blow-forward system...do you honestly think that people would pay 1300 for a DM4 if it was"just not as good as other high-end markers"?!
Also, most people would say that neither this nor an orracle would be that great for back players becasue it's just not fast enough to contend with the electros that everyone else uses.
   

oledude Wednesday, June 2nd, 2004 | 7:17 pm PST
I agree with sonnemann on the comments of accuracy and blow forward design. I also must say that my ULE RT Pro is one of the more accurate markers I own and has the best stock barrel I've ever used. I would look at other factors -paint, velocity- before giving up on it.
   

smith30in Friday, June 4th, 2004 | 5:54 pm PST
to sonnemann: i never said it was specifically INACCURATE, i merely ment it was not THE most accurate bolt system (i have indeed one-balled people on more than one occasion).and by sugesting the orracle, i merely ment that the closed bolt is the most accurate bolt system, and yes, the bolt system has a LOT to do with accuracy, because the air in the feed tube above the chamber can cause a difference in air flow between the top and bottom of the chamber, causing odd points of friction and therefore altering the trajectory, this is one of the reasons why the closed bolt is more accurate, because the ball is chambered BEFORE the gas from the bolt gets to it, creating an even distribution of gas around the ball, and therefore resulting in an even trajectory, also the fact that the bolt hits the ball out of the chamber means that we have one more thing that is at least capable of altering the smooth trajectory, because the chamber is larger than the barrel itself (in the mags case of course, the chmber is part of the barrel, but you can see that it is still wide enough to where the ball can roll around) this means of course that the ball may be, for instance, in the left side of this wide chamber when the ball hits, making the ball hit friction on the left side of the barrel when it hits the bore, and therefore adding one more point of friction on the trajectory of the ball ....anyway , with the orracle, you would have no trouble with accuracy (even if your as picky as me ) since it is indeed the highest end autococker(with exception to the e/worr blade orracles and karnivors...the INTERNALS are the highest end, that is) . to oledude: worry not, my friend ,i love mags and would never dream of giving up on them, i echo what i said to sonnemann reguarding my oppinion on the closed bolt. my velocity was good and my paint was good, my beloved RT ULE custom is accurate, but once again it is not THE most accurate... (by the way ,once you adjust/shorten the hinge to your liking, 12 to 14 is not a bad estimate for the orracle, slower than alot of guns, but it will keep up so long as you have a strong 2 finger pull (like your's truely, or better)).
Last edited on Friday, June 4th, 2004 at 7:24 pm PST
   

sonnemann Friday, June 4th, 2004 | 8:26 pm PST
1. Nexus internals kit owns! yeah!

2. Read this and see if you still believe that closed bolt is more accurate.

http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/paintguns/balistic
/closedopen.shtml

"Our conclusion - the great "inherent accuracy" of closed bolt markers over open bolt markers is a myth. "
It's Warpig, they are as respected in the paintball business as anyone else.


And by the way, by no means take this as a personal offense; I would never think about trying to insult another Mag owner. Consider it a friendly discussion.
   

smith30in Friday, June 4th, 2004 | 9:42 pm PST
my my, that was quite educational, however, you must forgive me for still being slightly skeptical, i wouldnt say that the artical is inaccurate necessarily, but more tests with several types of guns would be required to convince myself and many others that the closed bolt is not the superior bolt disign (and if for no other reason, a stingray isnt exactly manufactured with precision in mind, and therefore can add many other variables that i need not even go into...it would also help if i saw a picture of the experiment just to help me visualise it) however, i am open to this theory, and when more tests are done i will be sure to take them into consideration. and yes, the nexus kit puts all others to shame (but when i say that the orracles internals make it the highest end autococker, i mean its the best autococker without upgrades, if there was a mech that came stock with nexus internals, then flush the orracle down the toilet with my blessing, because after all, the orracle internals cycle at a very nice 20 cps, but the nexus' 40 cps indeed puts the orracle to shame).
Last edited on Friday, June 4th, 2004 at 9:48 pm PST
   

sonnemann Saturday, June 5th, 2004 | 1:53 pm PST
At least you're open-minded; half the people on this site are so set in their ways that thaey refuse to even look at what the oppositiion has to say.
   

pbdante Sunday, June 6th, 2004 | 8:04 pm PST
a-5 =ule rt pro acurace.....hahahahaha omfg dude that just made my day.
   

smith30in Sunday, June 6th, 2004 | 10:39 pm PST
quote:
Originally posted by pbdante
a-5 =ule rt pro acurace.....hahahahaha omfg dude that just made my day.
....its that kind of antagonism that gives this review site a bad name, you disagree with something? make your case with facts or plausable theories, or just shut the hell up, i have an a-5 as a backup . and stock barrel to stock barrel,(and they have about the same bore size), same velocity on both, they are approximately the same as far as accuracy is conserned.
Last edited on Sunday, June 6th, 2004 at 10:49 pm PST
   

BOBO Monday, June 7th, 2004 | 9:58 am PST
Calm down people..... Hey the A-5 is a decently accurate marker. One of my recball buddies uses his at tournies playing backman & does very well with it. ( uses a J&J ceramic barrel) I personally have been looking at one as a backup.. Right behind my soon to be Tac one primary. But any more, they keep dropping the price on the ule I might be getting that instead. Right now I own both an AC & mag , is there a difference in shooting for accuracy doesnt seem to be, the AC is smoother when shooting strings of paint maybe leading me to think that its more accurate but when you single shot it they are about the same.
   

smith30in Sunday, June 13th, 2004 | 8:03 pm PST
quote:
Originally posted by BOBO
Calm down people..... Hey the A-5 is a decently accurate marker. One of my recball buddies uses his at tournies playing backman & does very well with it. ( uses a J&J ceramic barrel) I personally have been looking at one as a backup.. Right behind my soon to be Tac one primary. But any more, they keep dropping the price on the ule I might be getting that instead. Right now I own both an AC & mag , is there a difference in shooting for accuracy doesnt seem to be, the AC is smoother when shooting strings of paint maybe leading me to think that its more accurate but when you single shot it they are about the same.
now you bring up an interesting point, my friend . perhaps the reason some think autocockers are more accurate is because of the lack of recoil and therefore allowing it to be held more steadily resulting in much better accuracy...this would also explain the test results in the artical suggested by sonnemann, since the gun was mounted on a stand where the stability of human arms was not an issue....i could be wrong...but i believe could indeed be the answer the the debated question "is the close bold more accurate than an open bolt?"....
   

BOBO Thursday, July 8th, 2004 | 9:20 pm PST
Got one question. How many shots off your tank?? I will hopefully be getting my8 Ule in tomorrow if everything goes well. But I am interested in finding out what kind of air usage people are getting.
   

sonnemann Friday, July 9th, 2004 | 7:09 am PST
Mags are fairly inefficient. Depends on the size of your tank anyway, and other conditions.
   

METALL!CA1019 Saturday, July 10th, 2004 | 5:59 pm PST
With ULE trigger pull kit the pull is 1 lb. not 2 lbs. Most electros are around 5 oz. or less.
   

smith30in Monday, July 19th, 2004 | 6:18 pm PST
quote:
Originally posted by METALL!CA1019
With ULE trigger pull kit the pull is 1 lb. not 2 lbs. Most electros are around 5 oz. or less.
the ULE trigger pull kit gives it a 15oz trigger pull, but the ULT is an option and does not come standard, on a normal rt, or a ULE custom like mine, the trigger is 2 lbs.
Last edited on Monday, July 19th, 2004 at 6:19 pm PST
   

METALL!CA1019 Friday, July 23rd, 2004 | 11:37 am PST
Oh I'm sorry I was too lazy to put 15 oz. So i put 1 lb. Man off by a whole ounce omg! I apologize to everyone who read that. And with an Intelliframe the ounce per pull ratio is different from top and bottom. The bottom part of the trigger is much lighter than the top Smith my buddy. Once again I'm sorry for saying it was 1 oz. heavier than it actually was. I'm going to go cry now! And by the way with the stock frame and trigger it is a 3 lb. pull.
Last edited on Friday, July 23rd, 2004 at 11:39 am PST
   

smith30in Monday, August 9th, 2004 | 6:09 pm PST
quote:
Originally posted by METALL!CA1019
Oh I'm sorry I was too lazy to put 15 oz. So i put 1 lb. Man off by a whole ounce omg! I apologize to everyone who read that. And with an Intelliframe the ounce per pull ratio is different from top and bottom. The bottom part of the trigger is much lighter than the top Smith my buddy. Once again I'm sorry for saying it was 1 oz. heavier than it actually was. I'm going to go cry now! And by the way with the stock frame and trigger it is a 3 lb. pull.
first of all, go screw yourself, second, i wasnt making a big deal (or any deal for that matter) of you being an ounce off, i just wanted my review to be as fact based as possible ,reread it and you'll see i wasnt correcting you, third, i was refuring to the RT without ULT (which is 2 lbs) with the intelli not stock frame, when i said normal rt, i just ment valve....if you had read my marker set up ,put 2 and 2 together, and found that i wasnt talking about frames....
Last edited on Monday, August 9th, 2004 at 6:15 pm PST
   

smith30in Monday, August 9th, 2004 | 6:25 pm PST
inbetween posts defending myself, i should say that i got the orracle a few months ago, accurate (especially with the 12 inch kaner), gas efficient, quiet, and only slower than the rt by about 1 or 2 balls per second. it'll give the rt a run for its money (tho still a bit too slow for a backplayer , but i'll be getting the e-blade in a week or two)....
Last edited on Monday, August 9th, 2004 at 6:27 pm PST
   

bryceeden Thursday, August 12th, 2004 | 8:05 pm PST
The bolt is irrelevent to accuracy. All that matters is paint and barrel, if you don't believe me take an open bolt and a closed bolt marker put the same barrel on each sucure them to a stationary object so they can't move and soot the same paint thru each. They will always be the same.
   

Logan T Tuesday, September 21st, 2004 | 4:56 pm PST
Autococker doesn't have less recoil than a mag. Where do you people get this stuff?
   

smith30in Thursday, September 30th, 2004 | 9:57 pm PST
quote:
Originally posted by Logan T
Autococker doesn't have less recoil than a mag. Where do you people get this stuff?
it has significantly less recoil than a mag, by that i mean yes, when the backblock moves back and then forward, it shakes the gun more than other guns, but the recoil is when the ball is fired and with a mag, the bolt itself moves forward producing recoil. with an autococker the bolt is already forward, and its just the gas firing the ball, not both gas and bolt as is the case with the mag. so an autococker may SEEM to have more recoil, but its actually just the rechambering of the next round, which even durring rapid fire happens long enough before the shot itself to not effect the users aim (because its enough time for the user to recover from the movement of the backblock to where his arms and marker are in the same position as the previous shot).i see your point, but its not really recoil try taking a pump marker and taking one shot with it (to get the effect of autococker recoil without the AUTOCOCKING part) and comparing it to one shot with a mag (both using nitro/hpa) and see if you dont feel a difference
Last edited on Thursday, September 30th, 2004 at 10:02 pm PST
   
                            
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