I see a lot of people talking down on this gun without ever having tried it. I could have very well been one of them. When a marker comes out that is identical to a high end marker, only made by a less respectable company , that can be expected. I was definately surprised when I got the gun. The milling is probably some of the sexiest you can get. The anno was flawless as well.
Out of the box it shot like crap. I think that is why this gun has gotten some bad reviews. People who know jack about cockers get one and if it doesn't shoot perfectly right out of the box they assume its crap. After I sat and tinkered with it for a few hours it shoots great. I have the trigger pull down to about 2mm. I have it pinching paint instead of chopping. And, it is getting average or above efficiency. It shoots just as well as my freeflow or my WGP did. Very underrated gun.
The twist lock bolt is nice, but I think that is the key weakness on this gun. It is a nice stock bolt. But I prefer a nylatron or delrin bolt to prevent unneccessary wear to the inside of the gun. Due to the twist lock bolt aftermarket bolts for this gun are impossible to find. So you are either stuck with the stock bolt, or you have to get the back block drilled. (If anyone knows of an aftermarket bolt for this gun please let me know)
Everyone knows that this gun looks almost exactly like the Dye reflex. Everyone assumes that the pneus are crap though. It is my understanding that this gun and pneus are still made at Dyes plant using the exact same machinery used to make the ultralights. Only the milling was changed, and only a little. The LPR and RAM are as good as any. The 3-way can be a hard to keep from leaking. I'm sure I could just change the o-rings out and have it working fine, but I'm sure it wouldn't be long before it was leaking again. I am changing it to a Palmer's Quickswitch.
One other complaint is that the stock barrel had a few rough places inside. It looked as if it hadn't been polished at all. It shot surprisingly well though.
I would highly reccomend this product. Don't listen to all the BS hype spread by people who have never even tried the gun. Unfortunately, BS hype like that is what fuels the paintball business. I am reccomending this marker to anyone who wants a nice cheap cocker. If you know nothing of cockers skip it. If you can time it and fine tune it, you will absolutely love this gun. I would love to give this gun a 10. In every catagory it has earned a perfect score in my opinion. But, due to being stuck with the stock aluminum bolt, it's getting a 9.
well, first of all, it isn't an "autococker," and second of all, the reason I personally don't like these guns is that, although they are dirt cheap for what they are and how they work, they are no were near as well put together than the majority of normall "autococker." for instance, take ans, they don't make cocker's, they make gun that shoot like cockers, Psycho Ballistics, but theirs are of a much higher quality and truelly work amazingly well. Psycho Ballistics "cockers'" performance varies from gun to gun and there are some major quality control issues that need to be worked out before Lighting's or Superbolt's will be widely accepted as a "good" gun-or even "cocker."
"Out of the box it shot like crap" -any gun that does this doesn't deserve a 9/10, but to each his own.
"Don't listen to all the BS hype" -well, unfortunitly, the "hype" isn't all BS, you even said that "Out of the box it shot like crap"
i think that they are better guns than they are made out to be, and i think the reason they are made out to be worse than they actually are (even though they still arn't what i would call a "good" gun) is because they are a rip off of a cocker. an interesting thing is that ans did exactly the same thing, yet thier guns work really really well so no one made a big deal about them.
Last edited on Saturday, June 5th, 2004 at 11:25 am PST
To toothpastedog... if you are going to bash the lightning or superbolt you must aslo bash Dye, their 1300$ cockers are basicly the same in problems and good things.
Has anyone ever talked to psycoballistics? I have when I needed a screw for my lightning, they where fast to reply to the e-mail, kind,and helpfull.
I have their lightning focker- its not a true autococker because of the feedneck, althought the Superbolt is a focker because of the back block...but then so is the Dye- so if you call a dye an autococker call the superbolt an autococker-
do you work with superbolts and ultralight and reflex cockers? well, i have work on many and i will bet you 1,000,000$ that the dye cocker are far better-do to better quality parts/better machining and quality control-than an "cocker" Psycho Ballistics will ever make. other than having to lube the spool valve on dye cockers (which i think was a bad design for their 3-ways), dye cockers are very very very good guns-btw, they only cost like 800$ at most, they only used to cost 1000$+ for like a day like 2 years ago.
even though a gun might work like a cocker, no matter what parts are used, it cannot be legally called an autococker unless they makers bought a raw cocker body from worr, thus not only buying the gun body, but also buying the rights to use the name "autococker" as well.
toothpaste. It is my understanding that the entire gun is still made at Dye. So, if you say these guns suck then that definately applies to the dye cockers as well. You can say what you want about them. I know quite a few people who own one and they absolutely love them. The only complaints I have ever heard are from people like you who have never actually spent some time with one.
And in reference to your earlier post, I don't see why a cocker should shoot well out of the box. This one doesn't even come with a reg or bottomline so it can't shoot out of the box anyways. Everyone likes to set it specifically to their liking. I never expect a cocker to shoot perfectly when I get it. You can find these guns for well below $200 now. I have yet to see a better value in paintball period.
"The only complaints I have ever heard are from people like you who have never actually spent some time with one." not to start an arguement, but my experiences with them and with people that own them is exactly the opposite. then again, i do know two people who love thier and haven't had any problem with them. then again, again, i know more than 10 people who had defective ones.
well, as far at to shooting well out of the box, i do allow the superbolt a little leway just because it doesn't come with an inline reg (thus installing and setting one of your own will screw up the gun's settings), but a gun none the less should work well out of the box; it doesn't need to work perfectly, but it should at least work, and at the very least, it should work well. i have nothing against Psycho Ballistics, they are quite a fine company, but, most of their "cockers" i've fixed has things like broken three-way o-rings and bad exaust valves. that is kinda unacceptable because, well, a gun that is physically capable of opperating and a gun that is not physically capable of opperating (meaning not having 100% seals, which cockers, as well as all other guns have to have to function... at all) are two different things.
oh yeh, the difference between dye cocker's and Psycho Ballistic "cockers" (i don't know for sure if dye sells their cockers to Psycho Ballistics as JoshGrrr says, but i am taking that into account) beside dye cockers coming with an inline reg, is tuning-not nessisarily fine tuning, just a general tune to make sure everything is set and works properly.
Last edited on Monday, July 26th, 2004 at 5:37 pm PST
There is nothing to stop you using a remote on it, but it isn't really intended to run at the 800-850psi pressure of room temperature CO2. I'd expect the most efficient operating pressure on this marker to be somewhere around 325-375psi. Running it on unregulated CO2 would require a spring kit so that you could totally re-tune the valve dwell for the higher pressure. You'd also have to run the LPR pressure high to compensate for the heavy hammer spring tension you would need to open the valve. This would increase the number of chops you would experience.
You really would be best with a regulator. It gives you a lot more tuning options, allowing you to maximise your efficiency, allows you to use lighter springs for a smoother cocking action and lighter trigger pull, and avoids the poor consistency and shootdown associated with cooling CO2 causing pressure drops - the bigger the difference between the operating pressure and the CO2 pressure, the more shots you can fire before the bottle pressure falls below the markers operating pressure, causing a reduction in velocity. If the marker is set up to run on full CO2 pressure, performance will be effected as soon as you start shooting, due to the bottle cooling and the pressure dropping.
Last edited on Friday, April 22nd, 2005 at 1:01 pm PST
It should fine with CO2, as long as the valve is fitted with an anti-syphon tube. You would also want an inline regulator to bring the CO2 pressure down to the operating pressure of the marker. However, performance would obviously be more consistent with an air system.
is this worth buying for a beginner/ intermediate gun(i do kno how to time it and properly take care of it)? b/c i can get it new for $200 w/ a free halo b hopper. and how many bps does the gun shoot? thnx!
p.s. if it is worth getting, then what "tweaking" do i have to do to it w/out getting more than 1 or 2 upgrades to make it shoot nicely.