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SilentButDeadly Thursday, January 6th, 2005
The accuracy of this review is disputed. Please see discussion below.
Period of
Product Use:
Only tested6 of 48 people found this review helpful.

Paintball
Experience:
4 years
Similar
Products Used:
04 BKO, Impulse, Timmy, Angel, E-cockers, etc....
Marker Setup: Black/red 2k2 Timmy, .689 CP 1 piece, , frenzy board v. 113, cip full force bolt, cip ram, cip ram adjuster, new style clamping feedneck, trinity uni, Halo B

Red 04 BKO "extreme," BL Torp, Trinity Uni, .689 CP 1 piece, Halo B

Black pre 2k ANS right feed cocker, .689 CP 1 piece, WGP stock regs, WGP ACM ram, orracle valve and springs, Shocktech bomb 3-way, ANS hinge frame, Kapp patriot cocking rod, system x beaver tail, Halo B
Recommended
Upgrades:
Barrel, reg maybe (didn't test it much).
Strengths: Fast (for a kingman product), light trigger pull, eyes
Weaknesses: Price, it just can't compete with other guns in it's price range.
Review: First of all, I'd like to point out that I only dry fired this gun at a field. I never shot paint through, never took it to the chrono, or other things that people do to test new guns out. In fact, the only reason that I'm writing this review is because of the 4 other terrible reviews for this gun.

Ok, now that that's out of the way I can begin first with the speed/trigger/circuit board of the Primal. Before I shot this gun, I figured it would have a weighty trigger pull much like that of an E-spyder (same company, kingman). To my surprise, the pull was quite light and easily walkable. I didn't note any adjustments on the trigger, but those could have been overlooked because I didn't have much time to check over the gun. I got up to around 13-14bps (if I am any judge) pretty easily, and I'm not exactly the fastest speed shooter. The new cap of 22bps in kingman's new boards is a vast improvement over the older 14bps cap, the new board also seems more responsive and better at picking up trigger pulls than the older ones too. It had a little bounce in the trigger, but it was very unnoticeable. Also, the eye switch is easily located and accessible on the back of the trigger frame. I did not get a chance to test the eyes because like I said before, I didn't put any paint through it.

The actual functionality of the gun itself is practically identical to that of ICD's BKO. The Primal has the same basic setup and design as a BKO and it has a spring return ram too. Kingman was a little vague in the description of the operation of the gun, describing it as a "SDE system" (Solenoid Direct Electro). This caused me to believe that it could have been a full electro (like an impulse) but sadly, it remains a spring returned firing system (which limits the rate of fire to around 18bps)

With that said, this pretty much brings to a close on what I can really say about the Primal without further testing. If you read any review for this gun, make it this one. I'm not trying to brag, but the other 4 reviews are biased, and written by those who have little real paintball experience(actually the reviews written by donut10591 and <Sch> Raven arne't bad, but they're still very biased).
Conclusion: In conclusion, this gun is definitely NOT worth the money. What you're basically paying ~$550 for is a BKO with eyes. That's it. BKO's can be had for $300 new, and older ones for even cheaper. Furthermore, you could get a B2k with pds for the same price and it's better that the primal in every way. I'm not saying that this is a bad gun, and if the price was around $350 it would be great, unfortunately it is very expensive and that's a huge drawback.
Rating:
4 out of 10Last edited on Saturday, February 5th, 2005 at 1:17 pm PST
 

Review Comments
                            
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buffaugust Friday, January 7th, 2005 | 12:05 pm PST
"I'm not trying to brag, but the other 4 reviews are biased, and written by those who have little real paintball experience"

it seems to me that 3 years of experience or more is pretty good... and just because someone likes a product doesn't make their review biased. could you explain how they are biased? which statements in their reviews are biased statements?

and also, if these people have 3-5 years of paintball experience each, how do they have "little real paintball experience?" i'm not at all trying to be rude, but your review is based on less empirical evidence than the others, since you never even shot paint through the marker.

in reference to the comments about bias, since you have a BKO, it could be said that your review is biased since you recommend a BKO instead of the Raven. Again, i'm not attacking you, but simply pointing out that your comments are not really valid.
   

chaz25 Friday, January 7th, 2005 | 12:19 pm PST
How can someone who has not even shot paint through the gun, write a review. The only bias I can see is that of a person who owns the BKO. Useless review.
   

Tabris17 Friday, January 7th, 2005 | 6:04 pm PST
I have to agree with the others on this whole heartedly. How can you give a gun a 4 out of 10 on a DRY fire? You even admitted it in the review yet still insisted this marker was basically useless for the price. Perhaps if you actually played with it and ran some paint through it you would at least have some justification to your statements.
Last edited on Thursday, April 27th, 2006 at 7:24 pm PST
   

SilentButDeadly Monday, January 10th, 2005 | 4:05 am PST
Listen here, buddy. I've owned several spyders in my paintball career and am an active poster in the kingman forum here for over a year now. I am in no way a spyder hater, I'd like to point out that I'd still have my tricked E-99 if it wasn't stolen from me last year too. So don't accuse me of bashing kingman.

When I said the reviews were biased, I was referring to paintball55's reviews where he compares the primal to a DM4 and says how stupid he was for getting a DM4 and not just getting the primal. He doesn't actually present any evidence of why it's so much better and continues on about how wonderful the Primal is.

If you don't like my review, fine I don't care one way or another. I'm not here to tell you what you want to hear, i'm here so you don't make a stupid decision and waste your money. I don't need to put paint through this gun to know how it's going to perform, unless you missed it somewhere in my review, this gun IS a BKO which yes, i've owned and had the mispleasure of using. And don't try to tell me that I'm biased because I owned a BKO, it was one of the worst guns I've ever had.

Also, how do you know that these people writing these reviews really have 3-5 years of paintball experience? I can tell just by what they've said that (one) knows next to nothing about paintball. It is a possibility that people may lie through the internet to make themselves seem more important.

Anyway, before this gets ugly. I NEVER SAID THIS WAS A BAD GUN, in fact I liked it a lot as far as kingman guns go. It's just not worth the price.

If you'd like to argue with me further I'll be in the kingman forum. Arguying through review comments isn't going to accomplish anything.
Last edited on Monday, January 10th, 2005 at 5:24 am PST
   

General Spyder Friday, January 14th, 2005 | 9:46 pm PST
". And don't try to tell me that I'm biased because I owned a BKO, it was one of the worst guns I've ever had."

You have to be kidding me. BKOs are the best guns you can get for $300 or less. Dry-firing is not actually testing COMPLETELY.
   

SilentButDeadly Tuesday, January 18th, 2005 | 6:53 pm PST
quote:
Originally posted by General Spyder


You have to be kidding me. BKOs are the best guns you can get for $300 or less. Dry-firing is not actually testing COMPLETELY.

Hardly, have you ever owned one? I kid you not, mine failed after only 2 months of use and a friend also bought one that leaks out of the noid like there's no tomorrow. Brand new out of the box the pos wasn't even capable of running at the correct pressure.

And even if I tested the Primal out fully and everything worked flawlessly I would still have given it the same rating. That rating was based on the assumption that everything else on the gun worked perfectly. Besides, consistancy and accuracy are the only other things I could judge it on had I actually tested it out on the field, and both of those are relative to the quality of the barrel and regs on the gun. Both of which, I would replace immediately if I owned one of these anyway.
Last edited on Wednesday, January 19th, 2005 at 11:39 am PST
   

General Spyder Sunday, January 23rd, 2005 | 1:56 pm PST
I own a bko, 3 other of my friends own bkos. they've been working fine for us. you do realize u actually have to clean the guns after using it.......
   

un4givnpb Monday, January 24th, 2005 | 7:11 pm PST
im gunna back sbd up here in saying that bko's suck. Of course he cleaned it, sbd isnt an idiot. My bko had so many problems out of the box that it would chop when i went over 5 bps. Now, after working with it for 3 months, i have it working decent.... i can hit like 13 on it without troubles.

On the primal, it functions almost identicly to the bko meaning its no faster. Spring return guns are mechanicly capped at most at 20 bps, and taht s only if they are perfeclty tuned. SBD is completely correct in saying that this gun is far too expensive.
   

SilentButDeadly Monday, January 24th, 2005 | 7:24 pm PST
quote:
Originally posted by General Spyder
I own a bko, 3 other of my friends own bkos. they've been working fine for us. you do realize u actually have to clean the guns after using it.......
DON'T EVEN begin to insult me by saying that I don't take care of my guns. ALL my guns are in immaculate condition and are completely disassembled, cleaned, lubed, and rebuilt after every day I use them. If any of you even had a fraction of a clue as to how much trouble I went through trying to fix my BKO you wouldn't be talking right now.

Btw, thanks for the comments un4givn, it's good to hear from someone who knows what they're talking about.
   

Tabris17 Monday, January 24th, 2005 | 8:17 pm PST
I recently bought the Primal and, at the time of this posting, haven't had the chance to play with it do to extremely horrible weather conditions which ruined a trip to an indoor range. I make no claim as to the preformance of this marker but as far as the price I feel it's not to bad. I looked around online, on ebay, and contaced local dealers. I finally purchased mine for about $490 after tax, $460 without tax, and for some odd reason the local dealer I purcahsed it from received a marker case from Kingman along with the Primal. Not a bad deal if you ask me considering I saved about $150 off the MSRP and got a marker case with it. Just keep shopping around at places and ask dealers to find the best deal, you may get an unexpected bonus like I did which is always a treat.
   

oonothin Wednesday, January 26th, 2005 | 1:10 pm PST
true that good review
   

Mr Murderdoll89 Thursday, January 27th, 2005 | 9:56 am PST
SBD...dont let them get to you...your right and its not worth the money at all...
   

ViEtGaNgStAkHoA Thursday, February 10th, 2005 | 8:17 pm PST
you dont know anything...u never shot paint out of if...shut yer mout and dont say anything else ! this gun is awesome!
   

Sniper15 Sunday, February 13th, 2005 | 7:04 pm PST
quote:
Originally posted by ViEtGaNgStAkHoA
you dont know anything...u never shot paint out of if...shut yer mout and dont say anything else ! this gun is awesome!
: Insert eye roll here : You obviously don't know SBD very well (if you posted around in the forums you would). He is one of the more knowledgable people on PBReview IMO. And I trust his advice.

Even though he only dry fired the gun, I have to agree with him. From what I have seen from the Primal, it is not worth the $500 price tag. An Imp, B2K5, or the new Smart Parts ION would be much better choices (IMO) and for less. Don't get me wrong, I think Kingman (Raven) did a pretty good job with this gun. It's probably the best one they have made yet, it's just not worth the $500. If it was more like $300 then I think it would be a great buy. And BTW, I am not a Spyder basher. I own an Impulse now, but still have my upped Spyder Imagine and Compact (and I like them both).
Last edited on Wednesday, February 16th, 2005 at 3:56 pm PST
   

SilentButDeadly Tuesday, February 15th, 2005 | 12:13 pm PST
quote:
Originally posted by ViEtGaNgStAkHoA
you dont know anything...u never shot paint out of if...shut yer mout and dont say anything else ! this gun is awesome!
Lol, wow. Someone missed their nap...

If you're going to attempt to argue with me, atleast present some kind of.... argument; instead of just spewing out a bunch of random insults and BS. Judging by the lack of organization, punctuation, and thought that you put into your post, I'd venture to say that you, my friend, are the one who knows nothing, and I dare you to prove me wrong.
Last edited on Tuesday, February 15th, 2005 at 2:45 pm PST
   

yuik Saturday, March 19th, 2005 | 5:09 pm PST
you wrote this because you saw"4 other terrible reviews for this gun" Well i guess you had to make it 5 terrible reviews
   

SilentButDeadly Wednesday, March 23rd, 2005 | 6:03 pm PST
quote:
Originally posted by yuik
you wrote this because you saw"4 other terrible reviews for this gun" Well i guess you had to make it 5 terrible reviews
I'm sorry that you feel that way, but then again, I don't really care what you think of my review. I didn't write this to tell people what they want to hear, I wrote it to tell them how to avoid wasting their money and time.
Last edited on Thursday, March 24th, 2005 at 9:15 pm PST
   

darktamer Thursday, March 31st, 2005 | 9:26 pm PST
from reading this entire argument and my experience w/ previous kingman guns, i have to agree with SBD. his review makes sense. he doesnt review what he can't test, which is pretty much accuracy and eyes. he reviews everything else intelligently.
   

chaz25 Saturday, April 2nd, 2005 | 7:53 pm PST
You all have to give it up, SBD, why do you continue to defend your horrible review. Who cares, you offer no help to anyone, that is painfully clear. So if you don't care what people think of your review, then leave it alone, but of course you will say something about what I write here today.
   

SilentButDeadly Tuesday, April 5th, 2005 | 7:50 pm PST
quote:
Originally posted by chaz25
You all have to give it up, SBD, why do you continue to defend your horrible review.
Because I'm right and you're not. And I can assume that because so far no one has even attempted to prove me wrong. How do I offer no help to anyone? I guess saving people money isn't going to do them any good...

Of course I'm going to keep replying, this is terribly entertaining :D
Last edited on Tuesday, April 5th, 2005 at 7:54 pm PST
   
                            
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