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Comments on UNGER's Review

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UNGER Wednesday, January 19th, 2005
The accuracy of this review is disputed. Please see discussion below.
Period of
Product Use:
1 year36 of 45 people found this review helpful.

Paintball
Experience:
3 years
Similar
Products Used:
Zeus G1, WarSensor Zeus G2+, PGP, PT Extreme. All perform similar, though the Zeus has the best performance, quick strip, grip, and construction.
Marker Setup: DYE DM4 LE, A5 w/Lapco offset & Pro Team ASR-1 raised rail w/red dot-Egrip-Flatline-LPkit-Voodoo folding stock-Phat regulator, Cocker 2004 VF, 98 Custom-Smart Parts Progressive, Ariakon ACP Combat Pistol, WarSensor Zeus G2+
Recommended
Upgrades:
Tactical Holster, replace quickstrip cotter pin with key ring, single trigger grip, heavier velocity spring,quickcap (available?).
Strengths: Fairly accurate close-up CO2 efficency Light, No chops/mis-feeds. Nice look Good CO2seal.
Weaknesses: Cust Service Velocity Sloppy Magazine Trigger Cotter-pin. Large barrel bore Plastic grip

Review: FIrst and most importantly I would like to talk about customer service. I have had this gun for about 6 months, and I have tried the suggestions from Ariakon ro resolve a velocity issue. As you read the reviews you will see that some of the reviewers score the gun incredibly high and make offers to buy it from me, and I offered to accept...but never heard from them again...no surprise.

The ACP is not overly impressive, and it is barely ok as a backup side arm. It has very little velocity adjustment and I could only get between 245-258 fps, it is alright, I guess, for an "up-close-and-personal" game. Ariakon tried to say that optimal velocity is 250 anyway, I disagreed, and said I think as a consumer I should be able to determine the optimal volocity based on the paintballs I am using. Finally they agree that there is a problem, so they offered to send me a new spring for $15.00, plus shipping. Well, I have to deduct 5 points for poor customer service. Compared to Tippmann, DYE, WGPand [Armotech removed 12/18/05]...well...never-mind... there is no comparison.

The magazine is loose fitting and rattles both on the mounting clips and internally due to a weak ball feed spring, but it does stay on the gun. The sloppy magazine has an effect on accuracy due to rocking side to side on the mounting rail, so its best to sight down the barrel side instead of down the sight rail.

The ACP holds 10 balls in the magazine and can also hold one in the pipe. It must be cocked before you air up, so the safety is the only thing keeping it from painting your foot or whatever. Don't keep one in the pipe. The metal all around is thinner than a G1, but overall it is also a slightly lighter gun. The metal pins used for the safety and quick strip pin are chrome plated. The quick strip pin has a tiny cotter pin set-up which comes out easily and could be lost.

The worst feature on the ACP is the trigger guard, and it is a permanent part of the grip. The guard is over-sized to accommodate two fingers so you must have the middle finger inside the trigger guard just to hold the gun. Apparently it is designed for the Ariakon milsim rifle line and tourney line to also hold a double trigger.

I have found that the following manufacturer's statement is FALSE: "This design allows for fast instinctive draws and target acquisition even with gloved hands, while still reducing the possibility of an accidental discharge."

Only 50% of the grip is available to draw the ACP. Testing in the Zeus tactical holster the trigger guard is mostly covered as it should be for safety. The large trigger guard of the ACP obscures the grip so you must begin the draw with the ring and little finger then find a way to insert the middle finger into the guard.

Testing in the APP belt holster the entire trigger guard is exposed. This holster type along with the trigger design exposes the trigger for accidental discharge. With the safety in the off position and full finger or half finger gloves and, using three fingers to draw the gun, it discharged 100% of the time upon attempting "fast instinctive draws" as advertised by Ariakon.

The ACP trigger guard design is NOT a better design, it IS a major safety risk. A finger inside the guard can accidentally fire the marker. Gun-training courses teach to keep fingers out of the guard until ready to fire, but even a little common sense tells you the same. The grip design will not allow you to keep fingers out of the guard and hold the gun firmly; it puts too much pressure on the ring and little finger. It is an uncomfortable trigger set-up.

Double triggers are designed to accommodate two fingers in front of the trigger and the ACP is NOT designed to accommodate a finger below the trigger. The trigger jams against my gloved finger, to remove my middle finger from the guard to allow the trigger to snap back to reset is a two handed operation. It also scrapes against my finger without gloves, and also intermittently jams against it. This might be less of a problem for someone with a small hand but you still have to put up with the feel of the guard in between the middle and ring finger. It's uncomfortable because it is not balanced like a tourney gun where the weight rests on top of the hand.

Ariakon says the ACP is not compatible with a Zeus or Core trigger frame, but there is an Ariakon single trigger grip upgrade available for around $50.00 with shipping (hmmm, a $175.00 + shipping ACP).

I am moderately satisfied with the rapid-fire ability of this pistol. I tested with an 11 ball load and emptied the gun in about 6 seconds without a problem, but when I tried to go faster the CO2 cartridge would bleed out after the 4th shot. Repeating this test twice ended in the same result, but I was able to re-cock and almost finish a clip at a slower manual cocking rate but the fps dropped to less than 100 fps. (update 2-3-05) : this seems to be temperature dependent. At near freezing the rapid firing appeared to cause the cupseal to leak, I tested on another day and it appeared to be less of a problem when above 40 degrees F. It appears that the cupseal may freeze upon rapid fire on cold days but the cupseal is still working after being frozen twice.

When rapid fire emptied the CO2 after the 4th shot, I was only able to get 3 more shots at less than 100fps by manually cocking the gun.

I continued my testing and I turned up the velocity to maximum (247-258 on the chrono), I was NOT able to empty two clips at 1 ball per 2 seconds. Repeating the test three times I averaged 14 shots before having to manually cock and fire at greatly reduced velocity. Testing the barrel bore I found that it is very large. I tested with Marballizer, Polar Ice, Draxxus Midnight, and Zap cheapo paint, however all would rattle and roll freely throughout the both tips, and to a lesser extent the barrel. I will update with the exact measurements from a machinist soon.

(Update, 2-5-05, the barrel bore measured out at 0.700. The tips look different on the outside, but the bore of each is also 0.700. I would recommend the largest paintball you can get.

The CO2 cartridge air puncture plate on the 12 gram makes a very quick and tight seal, and there is minimal CO2 loss when airing-up. The CO2 cartridge retainer plug has a fine thread and only requires finger tightening to get a high torque, this conserves CO2 and it is easy to load the CO2 cartridge.

I'm moderately satisfied with the accuracy, it's no DM4 but, at 35-50 feet its consistency is good for close-up-and- personal stuff. On a bench with a rolled towel rest, at 35 feet the pistol placed most of its marks within a 1-foot radius.

(Update 2-10-04) on a bench with a rolled towel rest at 50 ft, 75 ft, 100 ft the average results were as follows respectively: 4/11 in a one foot radius and 11/11 in a 2 foot radius, 2/11 in a one foot radius and 8/11 in a 2 foot radius , 0/11 in a one foot radius and 5/11 in a 2 foot radius. I repeated these accuracy tests three times with similar results. Not a single ball chopped or mis-fed in about 150+ shots when shooting at 1 ball per 2 seconds (above average). I also got up to 27 shots from a 12 gram at 245-250 fps firing about 1 shot every 2 seconds (above average) (but also as low as 4 shots, read on...). Update (2-3-05), in over 250 shots, this gun has not yet chopped or mis-fed.

I have found the following manufacturer quote to be FALSE: " The Ariakon Combat Pistol is the only pistol on the market which allows you to quickly change inserts to perfectly match the paint you are using." These inserts are not available.

The gun does not come with an owner’s manual at this time. Ariakon say's it will be available at a later date both in print and on line, I'm still waiting (2-11-05)...(6-14-05)...STILL WAITING!



Conclusion: The ACP is an OK performer and a nice looking gun. Because it could use much more quality in its construction, it is average. I hope that Ariakon does not abandon the ACP now that they are marketing the Overlord. The ACP has potential to be great pistol if Ariakon works to improve it.

It is disappointing that it is advertised as more than it is, and I expected barrel inserts to be available when I purchased this gun. It would also be a much better gun if the magazine didn't rock and a player could depend on the sight rail.

It would be a great customer service if Ariakon offered a low-cost upgrade to fix the trigger problem and increase the safety margin of their customers (A REALLY BIG HINT). I don't like the chrome plated safety and quick strip pin as in my experience chrome on a gun tends to rust or become unplated over time, and they could reflect sunlight. The cotter pin will eventually be a problem, it will cause the quick strip pin to get lost...it would be smart to replace it with a small key ring type if you get this gun.

The barrel bore is very large on mine making it a .700 cal. It will be hard to find paint that large and I am thinking that this is why higher velocity cuts CO2 efficiency in half. Both tips that come with the gun are also .700 cal.

This gun did not leak air when firing at a 1 ball per 2 second rate (update 2-3-05): at a warmer temperature (approx 40 deg F.) I was able to fire 11 balls in less than 6 seconds and could get through two full clips at it's lowest velocity (when new).

The CO2 cartridge air puncture plate and the fine threading of the retainer plug is very good. This design conserves CO2 on airing-up and makes it easy to load the CO2 cartridge. The retainer is a good size piece, but it is still possible that it could be lost in a game as it is NOTattached to the frame like a CO2 loading lever (and it is not nearly as fast).

For safety and a better design, Ariakon needs change the ACP trigger guard as they did on their Overlord. If the ACP had a heavy duty tight fitting magazine, military style quick strip pin and safety, a single trigger guard, a new barrel with functional barrel inserts as the advertising stated, and a better velocity spring, it would score into the 7's or 8's, (9's & 10's, well..."Be critical. Nothing is perfect").

I hope that Ariakon does not abandon the ACP now that the Overlord has been released for $30.00 less than I paid for the ACP because, the ACP needs fixes but it has potential.

I don't like the plastic grip. Problems could occur at the thinnest part of the grip, and that is where the screws attach it to the body. It is an average backup marker because in my opinion it doesn't appear have what it needs to hold up well in a hard-played milsim scenario. Also, in my opinion, there are safety issues with the ACP trigger set-up.

I rated this gun a 6.5 early on in my testing, but due to safety concerns, manufacturing workmanship, and the false advertising claim regarding barrel inserts...I am editing down to a 5 product rating. Updating 6 months later (5-29-05) I removed 5 points for poor customer service.

This review was written following these rules: Write a review that is helpful to fellow paintballers. Be critical. Nothing is perfect. Be detailed, specific and back up your rating.

As a consumer, I applaud this forum and all those who take the time to contribute useful and relevant information. This forum WILL have an effect of future products offered to us all.

This review is NOT meant to bash a product, but it IS meant to convey legitimate consumer concerns and needs to the manufacturer, as I myself am a consumer who works hard for the money I spend on paintball. It is my hope that all manufacturers will seriously consider all carefully presented reviews, and use the constructive criticism to produce safer and better paintball equipment, and at a reasonable cost.

I say to the manufacturers, most consumers are intelligent and educated, few offer blind loyalty to a product, and they are demanding of quality and safety. Manufacturers need to respond to their consumers and offer high quality and safety at a reasonable cost to promote paintball as one of the most exciting and safest sports in the world.


Rating:
1 out of 10Last edited on Sunday, December 18th, 2005 at 6:41 pm PST
 

Review Comments
Spyder_Avant Wednesday, January 19th, 2005 | 6:19 pm PST
Good review. It makes me want to get one since it seems to be the only pistol with good CO2 efficiency and also doesn't leak.
   

UNGER Thursday, January 20th, 2005 | 9:37 pm PST
This gun is ok if you don't wear gloves, and if you feel comfortable with a finger in the trigger guard, and if you want an up-close-and-personal game with a lighter version of the Zeus. This is a nice gun and a little above average, it is not loud , and is very good on gas at low velocity. I rated it as a 5.5 out of 10, where I considered a Sheridan PGP the standard (i.e. a 5 of 10. Even though it is not a semi it is nearly as fast due to the shoot down and gas leak if the ACP is fired too rapidly). I took off quite a bit for safety reasons. Still, this is a good score since I give my stock-out-of-the-box DYE DM4 a 9 and an 8.5 for my crazy modified (but incredible) A-5. Personally, I will keep it as a back-up sidearm and replace it as my primary sidearm with a Zeus G2+ for $10.00 more. I like the RIS system on the G2+, but the package is also available as a G2 which includes a long barrel for the same $10.00 more. However, my primary reason for replacing it is the double finger trigger guard because, most importantly to me, safety is compromised with this design on the ACP. This is because the middle finger must be inserted into the guard to hold the ACP. During a game the trigger jammed against my finger after a first shot while I was wearing full finger gloves. Another problem is the quick strip pin set-up, which is way below average. The cotter pin is thin and exposed (see picture), and the pin itself is a little on the loose side. The gun could potentially fall apart during use. I will test further to see if it could cause injury and write an update.
Last edited on Tuesday, February 1st, 2005 at 8:48 am PST
   

UNGER Wednesday, January 26th, 2005 | 9:36 am PST
As an update: It appears that the ACP selling price has been reduced by the distributor that I purchased it from (who charged me $129.99 plus $15.99 S&H). I see that about 10 days later they decreased their price to $119.00. BUT>>>look around if you are planning to buy it and save some money, it will be easy to beat the $150.00 I paid, and I have seen it as low as $109.00.
Last edited on Thursday, January 27th, 2005 at 3:38 pm PST
   

suntannedmonk Tuesday, February 1st, 2005 | 11:31 pm PST
If you don't like the trigger you can put a SIM-4 Pro trigger on.
   

UNGER Wednesday, February 2nd, 2005 | 5:55 am PST
Yes that is correct and I thank you for your response, you may have missed it but I previously posted that information in the review as follows:

"Ariakon says it is not compatible with a Zeus or Core trigger frame, but there is an Ariakon single trigger grip upgrade available for around $50.00 with shipping (hmmm, a $175.00 + shipping ACP)."

With all due respect, that means you get a gun similar to a Zeus G2 except with a trigger that nobody really gave a good review and had to make excuses for, sloppy magazine and poorly designed quick strip pin and minus the extra barrel extension and RIS for 26% more money than a G2...which is why I think to myself...hmmmm???

As long as I am here I'd like to post a comment on the following manufacturer quote: "Perfect Paint to Barrel Match: Matching your paint to the barrel is crucial to consistent accuracy and gas efficiency. The Ariakon Combat Pistol is the only pistol on the market which allows you to quickly change inserts to perfectly match the paint you are using."

According to Ken at Ariakon, full inserts are not available and the 1 & 1/2 inch barrel tip is supposed to provide the match (I recieved two with mine but they are both the same size bore diameter, they look different on the outside...actually a pretty cool look that would be even cooler if the threading was set to allow the vent/ports to be in line and symmetrical with the gun body). Still, my thought on this is: JUST HOW IS IT that every major manufacturer offers the back of a barrel as the paint match section, but this little screw on tip makes "Perfect Paint to Barrel Match." I am in the process of testing this and I will update soon.
Last edited on Tuesday, February 8th, 2005 at 7:59 pm PST
   

Childe_Beefy Wednesday, February 23rd, 2005 | 5:52 pm PST
In reply to the first comment, the gas efficiency, based on the review, is very similar to that of the Zeus, with the notable exception of "high" speed firing at the same, low velocities and the leaks associated with the Zeus line have been eliminated (new cup seal manufacturer) or proven to be user created (not cocking before charging.) It's a very thourough review. I applaud your impartiality UNGER. I was curious, though, does the mag in the ACP have the twist chamber block the way the Zeus does?
   

UNGER Saturday, March 12th, 2005 | 6:57 pm PST
Thanks, I like to study my markers. But, yes, it does have the same type twist chamber block , and in this configuration the mag holds 10 balls. The rear of the mag looks very similar to the Zeus, and it might be possible to modify it enough to accept a quick cap.
   

UNGER Saturday, March 12th, 2005 | 7:10 pm PST
Update on the ACP Tip:

Testing with the tip on and off:
To my amazement, the tip increases the accuracy of the ACP significantly, just goes to show you when you assume...

But still, even after replacing the spring with a Zeus spring, the velocity now will not go over 238fps. Maybe I should replace the cupseal, anyone have some thoughts on this?
   

Robotech Thursday, March 17th, 2005 | 10:05 am PST
Might be temp. I can get my ACP to shoot 300 fps easily but I'm firing in 70-90 Degree temps (F of course).

As for gas efficiency I have a G1 Zeus and the ACP. The only time I got the Zeus over 20 shots was after polishing all the internals. Stock it gets about 15-18 shots (mine and three other that our guys have) while the ACP consistantly gets 22-24 shots at 280 fps in 70 degree weather.

You may have a cupseal issue but I think it may also be the temps you are firing in. For us, 40 degrees is downright COLD. LOL
Last edited on Thursday, March 17th, 2005 at 10:06 am PST
   

UNGER Wednesday, March 23rd, 2005 | 4:58 am PST
I have a newer model WSP G2+, side by side with the ACP the G2+ has greater accuracy, the same shots per CO2, and is adjustable from 230-340.

But I found the ACP perfect for my 10 year old, and the trigger guard is not an issue for her. Also the lighter weight and lower velocity in her case is a plus.
Last edited on Sunday, May 8th, 2005 at 8:48 am PST
   

Pattons3rd Saturday, October 8th, 2005 | 12:39 pm PST
a little note, but the review of the product should not be reduced by 5 points because of customer service. that doesnt deal with 50% of the product.
   

the unseen Monday, October 17th, 2005 | 8:29 pm PST
i think it does
   

UNGER Saturday, October 22nd, 2005 | 9:20 am PST
...So do I "the unseen".

To me, customer service is the single most important factor in the purchase of any product, and repeat business; (Maybe I should have reduced it by 7.5 points). I can tell you that my team of over 30 players, and affiliated teams of nearly 50 other players in New England, will never recommend or consider an Ariakon purchase , and that is a direct consequence of my testing this product and the sub-standard customer service that Ariakon offered to me.

Customer service is why I own a G-2, DM4,an Autococker, and several Tippmann markers, and I use Flurry vests and, V-Force and Proto masks. If you have never experienced outstanding customer service I suggest you do business with one of these companies, or check with your friends before making a major purchase because there are other companies out there as well that stand behind their products and offer outstanding customer service like Smart Parts, Palmer, and others I'm sure.

I noticed that Ariakon has changed the grip and now sells the pistol with a 45 style trigger (but they turned their tails and ran, and left those of us with the problem guns to fend for ourselves). Lucky for the owners of Ariakon they were not leaders of a real-life squad because they would have been shot by their own men.
Last edited on Tuesday, November 1st, 2005 at 3:57 pm PST
   

moose70 Monday, May 29th, 2006 | 6:22 pm PST
You're supposed to be doing a review on the product, not the manufacturer's customer service.
   

ScottACE Tuesday, May 30th, 2006 | 1:16 pm PST
Dispute:
It's a good gun. It may not be the best but for crying out loud it's a pistol. what would you expect. Sure it's not the Overlord but it deffinatly doesn't deserve a 1/10.
   

UNGER Sunday, June 25th, 2006 | 8:51 am PST
Moose70, I did a very unbiased sequence of tests, unfortunately, this marker is plagued with sub-standard performance as compared to WSP G1, G2, PGP, and PT Extreme(although the the PT Extreme also has issues). The ACP issues are related to manufacturing problems, i.e. low fps, poor clip fit, and a poorly designed trigger guard that can contribute to safety issues...this is serious stuff in my opinion.

Without customer service and support (for a Brand New Item), a customer has to find their own solution...that is poor service. I offered Ariakon an opportunity to make this right, but they wanted me to pay to repair something that was wrong from the start.

Opinions vary, if you do not consider customer service a necessity that is OK, but I consider it a priority (as do at least another 50+ New England mil-sim/woods-ball players that I am associated with)...however I do respect your right to have your own opinion and thank you for your feedback
Last edited on Sunday, June 25th, 2006 at 8:52 am PST
   

UNGER Sunday, June 25th, 2006 | 9:29 am PST
ScottACE, You post a Dispute but all you offer as your dispute grounds is the following fact-less quote :
"It's a good gun. It may not be the best but for crying out loud it's a pistol. what would you expect. Sure it's not the Overlord but it deffinatly doesn't deserve a 1/10." (<sp> I am not sure if you mean "defiantly" or "definitely").

It is unclear to me why you don't specify any experience that you have had with the ACP, or Ariakon for that matter because it could be helpful to everyone if you did. It is also unclear to me why you don't back fellow paintballers...we pay for a product...we deserve to get what we paid for.

My review was written following the PB Review rules: "Write a review that is helpful to fellow paintballers. Be critical. Nothing is perfect. Be detailed, specific and back up your rating."

I performed an unbiased series of controlled tests (i.e. the controls being several other pistols). I supported my findings with facts that I documented just as they occurred.

I am interested to know what you think I should rate a pistol that is not useful to me in a game, and from a company that offered me zero customer service, and why?

I have an ACP marker that was a waste of about $150.00 dollars...I understand that this is what you would expect, however I disagree and I DISPUTE your Dispute.

I replaced the ACP with a WSP G2+, and I use it every time I play, it is consistent and reliable...and guess what...it's a pistol too, but it works every time. It chrono's out at about 275 +/- 5fps and its accuracy is consistent even at 100+ feet. THAT is what I would expect.

My review was posted to give the consumer an honest report of my tests as applied to my ACP and to give the manufacturer a second opportunity to show that they care about the customer, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY to help push the manufacturer into making changes to fix the problems so others would benefit from my experience, and obviously there were problems...ARIAKON MADE CHANGES AND THIS POSTING WAS A SUCCESS!!!

On a positive note you can see the what the manufacturer did to fix these problems here: http://forum.ariakon.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=6226&PN =1

BUT, on on a NEGATIVE NOTE here is a quote to those of you who purchased the ACP 1.0: "Current ACP 1.0 users can purchase each upgrade individually or all of them together as a complete kit." A way to correct the defects/problems BUT the customer has to pay again.

MANY THANKS to pbreview for the opportunity to voice equipment pro's and con's to the paintball community.

ps...I'm still waiting for Ariakon to offer a no cost solution...but I'm not holding my breath...lol.

ScottACE, I respect your right to Dispute, however your dispute grounds are far too vague, which is why I reported your dispute as inappropriate, but still, I thank you for your feedback..I guess.
Last edited on Tuesday, June 27th, 2006 at 5:01 am PST
   

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