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Sporefrog Saturday, February 19th, 2005
The accuracy of this review is disputed. Please see discussion below.
Period of
Product Use:
Less than a month185 of 1285 people found this review helpful.

Paintball
Experience:
2 years
Similar
Products Used:
BKO, Pirranah EVO, espyders
Marker Setup: 04 Gen2 Freestyle 45/4500, Stiffi switch kit, nox board, prototype techna trigger, contract killers lady panels, Reloader B black, 05 CP on/off, CP reg, JDS LPR, carbon fiber side panels. CP twist-lock feedneck.
Recommended
Upgrades:
Barrel, Feedneck, Reg, trigger
Strengths: Comes with a regulator, alright trigger sorta efficient
Weaknesses: See review TOO MANY TO LIST!!!!!!
Review: My friend bought this gun and wrote the review-

Weaknesses:

Barrel, no famous spiral porting , they could at least throw the progressive on it stock. this barrel is horrible. I've heard and seen cases in which the inside of the barrel is powder coated. Terrible quality control on SP's part. There is a big difference between micro honed and powder coated.

Feedneck, not clamping but it does have orings in it meaning it might stay tight, but be prepared to do a lot of sanding. another decent feedneck (made of decent aluminum) will go for another 40 bucks.

Regulator- not even a max flow, just a downgraded version. i experience velocity spikes of +/- 25 FPS and my paint to bore was PERFECT. and that was after i fixed the leak on it. And there is tons of drop off once you hit 8+ bps. I was shooting 280 and when I started shooting fast it was in the low 200's.

Body- low grade aluminum covered by "polymer" (PLASTIC) shell. looks really bad, everybody at the local field made fun of its looks. i was sad.

Internals- I took this thing apart and it was pretty simple. except i noticed one thing right away - the solenoid coil - it was in plain sight - exposed. This is a very fragile part of the solenoid and deserves some protection. I can see this getting to be a problem in the future, I haven't opened my gun since then in fear of nicking coil. A two way solenoid, not too impressive. This is what the older BKO's used.


Board - the board is capped at 17, some of my friends can walk a trigger faster than this - Why cap it at 17 when all u have to do is change a few numbers in the code to make it faster? Bad move sp.

My guess is they capped it there because the solenoid is probably really bad and will explode if you cycle too fast..

Kick- This gun had a lot of kick to it, comparable to a spyder.

Feel - Felt plasticy, reminded me of holding a brass eagle blade - I definitely didn't dig it.

Trigger - It was plastic and had a bad setup - Was hard to pull fast or consistantly, magnet was way to strong stock. EDIT: Somebody at the local field with an ion got his trigger shot off in a game, the trigger just broke - very weak.

Lack of color options, yellow red blue black - all looks the same (really bad) no fades just looks plastic.

This is one loud gun.

Duckbill- Makes for a long setup and provides no On/off features. Not comfortable

NOT durable at all- I slid into a bunker and my feedneck hit the edge, now i cant take my feedneck off because the threads are messed up. if i ever want to take it off its going to cost 100 dollars, that's what smart parts said.
Conclusion: First day at the field with this gun - had a leak right away. we figured out that it was the bolt assembly and it was missing an oring - HOW DO YOU MISS AN ORING!!! i was pissed. after that my reg leaked, guy at the field fixed it for me i owe him one thanks bob. The accuracy was terrible even with a good paint bore match, kick was terrible and consistency was non existent - I've had way better experiences with spyder clones

I'll give it a two just because the new concept other then that it deserves a 1. I was definitely not happy with this product. Smart Parts customer service was definitely no help at all.
Rating:
2 out of 10Last edited on Saturday, March 26th, 2005 at 11:23 pm PST
 

Review Comments
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bluesboyk3 Tuesday, February 22nd, 2005 | 7:35 pm PST
Look guys, u just need to chill down. Like he said, his friend got his from the internet and apparently got ripped off. There was leak and all that stuff. So he might be just getting a lemon. Nothing is perfect in this world man, chill. So what isn't he entitled to his own opinion ? If u guys don't believe him, why don't u ask him to prove his friend holding the ion in a picture. ? it's that simple.
Again, it's a 300 dollar gun. A 1000 gun could have the same problem if it's mass produced - since SP is a really big company after suing everyone's asses off - i bet the ions are mass produced too. Things can go wrong guys, whether it's user error or the manufacturer's error. But at least he can give other people some things to think about before getting an ION.
I'm not defending him or anything, i just ask for u guys to give him a chance to speak his opinion and stop saying "OMG, he doesn't know what he's talking about" just because he/ his friend is not pleased with his ION.If u guys are pleased and found a really good deal in buying the ION, good for you. If he found his not working right, he has the right to post his review. There. Flame me if u wish, it's not gonna solve anything. Again, i don't have an ION and notice i didn't say anything about it in this post. Just saying that one is entitled to his own opinion and just because he's not on the same page with you doesn't mean that u can rant on his ass.
   

klockness Tuesday, February 22nd, 2005 | 7:48 pm PST
I don't know why, but this guy keeps saying ICD ICD in every review comments. I am pretty sure he never used the ion and for some strange reason or another is trying to make this look bad without ever seeing or using one and make people try to buy from ICD. I am looking at buying one or the other but never having shot either I must say ICD makes some butt fugly guns and I am leaning towards the ion. "My friend wrote the review my foot", I've read your comments on other reviews, very biased. He's only written two reviews, this and the freestyle.
   

Kurama Tuesday, February 22nd, 2005 | 8:16 pm PST
"so just because some companies weigh their guns without the reg or barrel, therefore Indian Creek Designs MUST do it too, because you think it seems a little too light. good logic i like the way you think"

I've held a freestyle, and it wasn't 1.8lbs... Not close...

"ok, again, the manufactures (the people who designed and produced the gun) word Vs. your word (some random d1p sh1t who hasnt even used a freestyle before). i wonder which is more accurate - how about you weigh it and post it on the internet."

Next time my local proshop gets a freestyle, I'll weigh it... And dude, I dont think ICD advertises 2000 shots unless they mean a 116ci tank. Rofls. Now, 1000 is the ION's worst efficiency but 2000 is quite a bit more than the freestyle's best efficiency. And why are we comparing the ION to an HE'd freestyle? They're miles away in price.
   

Kurama Tuesday, February 22nd, 2005 | 8:24 pm PST
Saw this page... Yeah, 2.3 seems low for weight...

And a higher operating pressure doesnt mean breaks. For instance, a level 10 bolted automag runs ~800psi. It chops much less than a timmy which would run like 70-80. Most of the pressure is not expended or hitting the ball itself. Most of it is to cycle the marker or to make up for the lack of volume if the marker is smaller.
   

Sporefrog Wednesday, February 23rd, 2005 | 7:24 am PST
quote:
From Karama
"Saw this page... Yeah, 2.3 seems low for weight..."



I weighed it on one of those scales for packaging and stuff. Mine doesn't have a drop, so maybe thats why its .2 pounds less than what they said on pb nation.

quote:
from karama
"And a higher operating pressure doesnt mean breaks. For instance, a level 10 bolted automag runs ~800psi. It chops much less than a timmy which would run like 70-80. Most of the pressure is not expended or hitting the ball itself. Most of it is to cycle the marker or to make up for the lack of volume if the marker is smaller. "



Then explain to me why you said, "
the lpr ran at 125psi, so it isnt even a big difference. The freestyles might run lower, but that still wont make a difference if the marker has break beam eyes anyway."

It does effect chopping because most guns dont need 800 PSI to recock the gun so alot of that would be going to shoot the ball. Lower Pressure has been said to:
1. Quiet the gun.
2. More Effiecent.
3. Less breaks.
Last edited on Wednesday, February 23rd, 2005 at 7:32 am PST
   

Castro #66 Wednesday, February 23rd, 2005 | 10:14 am PST
Everybody just go buy a Diadem and forget about this whole thing :)
   

Sporefrog Wednesday, February 23rd, 2005 | 11:03 am PST
quote:
From the gun description from Smart Parts.
ďYou'll get the accuracy, range and rate of fire the Pro's enjoy for just a little more money than an entry level marker.Ē


I think thatís pretty funny how they say that their paintball gun gets better range than others. Thatís about the dumbest thing Iíve ever heard.
   

Mcot2 Wednesday, February 23rd, 2005 | 11:36 am PST
quote:
Originally posted by Sporefrog


I weighed it on one of those scales for packaging and stuff. Mine doesn't have a drop, so maybe thats why its .2 pounds less than what they said on pb nation.



Then explain to me why you said, "
the lpr ran at 125psi, so it isnt even a big difference. The freestyles might run lower, but that still wont make a difference if the marker has break beam eyes anyway."

It does effect chopping because most guns dont need 800 PSI to recock the gun so alot of that would be going to shoot the ball. Lower Pressure has been said to:
1. Quiet the gun.
2. More Effiecent.
3. Less breaks.


God your a moron. Im the one that said that, since we were comparing markers with an lpr.

Im the one that said if you have eyes the lpr pressure isnt that important, and its true. The only way your going to chop paint is by the bolt pinching the ball. Therefore, if you have eyes, it doesnt matter if your lpr is so low it can bounce off paint, it still won't chop. There are extreme cases where it can still chop, but even an lpr in the 80psi range will not pinch, so theres no point in them. If you take them low enough to pinch then you will get dropoff and low velocity in which you will have to compensate with higher inline and dwell, causeing more problems then its worth.

So therefore lprs are irrelevant even when using brittle paint. As someone else beautifully pointed out, lvl 10's run way over 150 psi and they chop less than timmys with lprs. So there you have it.

Now, as for your review. You need to support things with more detail, and recognize opinion based subjects should not warrent a major flaw.

   

Mcot2 Wednesday, February 23rd, 2005 | 11:37 am PST
quote:
Originally posted by Sporefrog


I think thatís pretty funny how they say that their paintball gun gets better range than others. Thatís about the dumbest thing Iíve ever heard.


Its a marketing scheme. WDP, WGP, AGD and most paintball companies do it. Go give there guns 2/10's.
   

Mcot2 Wednesday, February 23rd, 2005 | 11:40 am PST
quote:
Originally posted by Sporefrog




It does effect chopping because most guns dont need 800 PSI to recock the gun so alot of that would be going to shoot the ball. Lower Pressure has been said to:
1. Quiet the gun.
2. More Effiecent.
3. Less breaks.


Yes, a lower inline pressure quiets the gun down and reduces the kick. The ion runs at 150psi, about the lowest pressure youll see a marker operate at.

Effciency is a balance between volume and pressure. Just because it runs lower, does not mean it is more effcient. Very big myth in paintball. Both lp and hp guns can be effcient. The most effcient designs in fact seem to be running in the mid range 300-500psi. But its all in the design of the whole valve, hammer, ram or whatever the gun uses.
Last edited on Wednesday, February 23rd, 2005 at 11:39 am PST
   

Sporefrog Wednesday, February 23rd, 2005 | 11:48 am PST
quote:
Originally posted by klockness
I don't know why, but this guy keeps saying ICD ICD in every review comments. I am pretty sure he never used the ion and for some strange reason or another is trying to make this look bad without ever seeing or using one and make people try to buy from ICD. I am looking at buying one or the other but never having shot either I must say ICD makes some butt fugly guns and I am leaning towards the ion. "My friend wrote the review my foot", I've read your comments on other reviews, very biased. He's only written two reviews, this and the freestyle.

Well, i hadnt mentioned anything about ICD or freestyles UP UNTIL when some idiot claimed ions were smaller faster lighter and more efficient. And dont speak of ugly and say the ion looks good. the ion looks like a flippen nerf gun it doesnt even have milling, you really suck at judging guns looks.

quote:
Originally posted by Kurama

Next time my local proshop gets a freestyle, I'll weigh it... And dude, I dont think ICD advertises 2000 shots unless they mean a 116ci tank. Rofls. Now, 1000 is the ION's worst efficiency but 2000 is quite a bit more than the freestyle's best efficiency. And why are we comparing the ION to an HE'd freestyle? They're miles away in price. .


Well ICD doesnt advertise shots per tank, that was ME telling you the efficiency I got out of MY freestyle. And once again, the reason we are comparing the ion to the freestyle is simply because i was correcting a fool who said that ions are smaller lighter faster and more efficient - its not like i was talking to you or anything.

quote:
Originally posted by Mcot2



Now, as for your review. You need to support things with more detail, and recognize opinion based subjects should not warrent a major flaw.



I did support in detail, my review was much more detailed and longer then most reviews that gave it a 10/10 .

quote:
Originally posted by Mcot2


God your a moron. Im the one that said that, since we were comparing markers with an lpr.

Im the one that said if you have eyes the lpr pressure isnt that important, and its true. The only way your going to chop paint is by the bolt pinching the ball. Therefore, if you have eyes, it doesnt matter if your lpr is so low it can bounce off paint, it still won't chop. There are extreme cases where it can still chop, but even an lpr in the 80psi range will not pinch, so theres no point in them. If you take them low enough to pinch then you will get dropoff and low velocity in which you will have to compensate with higher inline and dwell, causeing more problems then its worth.




oh my god there are so many condratictions in your arguement about LPR pressure, pinching and chopping im not even going to dignify it with a response - you start rambling how pressure doesnt matter if you have eyes, then you ramble more about how if you can get your pressure low enough you will pinch instead of chop, then you contradict yourself by saying its not worth it.

heres what i think the misconception is - you think that im saying that having a lower operating pressure will cause less chops because the bolt isnt capable of chopping so it pinches. thats not what i said!!! my god man learn how to read!

I said that lower operating pressure will cause less BREAKS, not CHOPS, there IS a difference. lower pressure means softer on the paintball when the AIR projecting the paintball hits the paintball- not the bolt pushing the ball past the detents.

quote:
Originally posted by Mcot2

The only way your going to chop paint is by the bolt pinching the ball.


Yes, you are correct, the bolt pinching the ball is chopping, hence the bolt chopping through the lower half of the ball.

quote:
Originally posted by Mcot2
Therefore, if you have eyes, it doesnt matter if your lpr is so low it can bounce off paint, it still won't chop.



You see, there is this thing called barrel breaks - they are caused by how brittle the paintball is and how much pressure hits the ball.
Last edited on Wednesday, February 23rd, 2005 at 12:16 pm PST
   

Mcot2 Wednesday, February 23rd, 2005 | 11:58 am PST
quote:
Originally posted by Mcot2

And as for the freestyle, it works in almost exactly the same way as the ion. Yet the ion is smaller, lighter, more effcient, and it doens't even need an lpr. If you add a new reg, and a new board and trigger when they come out, and maybe a bolt, you will probebly still be under the price of a freestyle, but have a better gun.



Your a freaking moron. I did not say it was faster. That ^^ is my orginal quote which is 100% true. Just stop posting, you make yourself look like an ignorant fool every time you do.
   

Mcot2 Wednesday, February 23rd, 2005 | 12:02 pm PST
I still connot see how this review was written by someone who knows the gun. Its a terrible review. I have an ION, I agree there are shortcommings, i agree that right now a freestyle is better and I would like to have one over the ION, but I am 100% happy with what i got for the price, and still hold that it will eventually be better than a FS when aftermarket stuff comes out.

There you have it, just delete your review or make it at least fair. A 2/10 for what you listed is not right. I doubt you had problems, I doubt you called sp, and I doubt you got "no service" from them. Assuming you get a tech on the line, I do not see how they wouldnt help you. If it is busy at the moment then call back. Ive only had to call sp back once though.

Gahh, I am getting fed up with this review as it is complete BS.
   

Sporefrog Wednesday, February 23rd, 2005 | 12:24 pm PST
quote:
Originally posted by Mcot2


Your a freaking moron. I did not say it was faster. That ^^ is my orginal quote which is 100% true. Just stop posting, you make yourself look like an ignorant fool every time you do.


We have proven that the freestyle and ion are roughly the same at 2.2 (on/offs + battery weigh a little more then .1 more then a duckbill and no battery.)

you still have yet to measure the gun length and height.

and through my experiences the freestyle was efficient - more then the ion. and i was thinking of variables that might have effected my efficiency in my favor and all i can come up with is that i let my friend borrow a pod.

ok so my efficiency is now 1540 shots per 68/45 non he kit, happy? im pretty sure that 1540>1000-1400

so, in reality, proven with facts backed up by numbers all you have proven was that the ion is the same in weight, (no measurements for size, dont know how u claim its smaller with no refrence for size), and less efficient.

are you sick of getting owned?
   

Sporefrog Wednesday, February 23rd, 2005 | 2:48 pm PST
quote:
From Mcot2:
"And as for the freestyle, it works in almost exactly the same way as the ion. Yet the ion is smaller, lighter, more effcient, and it doens't even need an lpr. If you add a new reg, and a new board and trigger when they come out, and maybe a bolt, you will probebly still be under the price of a freestyle, but have a better gun. "


Where are you coming up with this stuff. Since NO upgrades have came out yet you have no idea how much they will increase performance or how much they will cost. Jesus Christ you are dumb. I weighed my gun and it weighs 2.3 pounds, but if you put an on/off on the ION it would weigh the same. Besides that I proved you wrong on the effiecency and give me some measurements for the ION please.

Dynasty Shocker board - $150
Regulator - $70
Trigger - $40
Feedneck - $35
Good barrel - $100

So....thats
$695 for all those upgrades and the gun. $75 more than the Freestyle. So if you can get all those upgrades then the ION might be a little faster (assuming that the ION's internals can handle the speed, which they can't) and better regulator, but you could buy that with the extra $75 and still have $5 left over or you could get your FS board Nox Lite'd for $25 and have $50 left over. And the freestyle will still have better effiecency, be smaller (unless you prove me otherwise) and better consistency.

But this is all assuming there are all these upgrades for the ION, and when I wrote my review there weren't. I'm not going to assume that there are going to be upgrades and take that into account.
Last edited on Wednesday, February 23rd, 2005 at 2:48 pm PST
   

Mcot2 Wednesday, February 23rd, 2005 | 4:07 pm PST
quote:
Originally posted by Sporefrog

oh my god there are so many condratictions in your arguement about LPR pressure, pinching and chopping im not even going to dignify it with a response - you start rambling how pressure doesnt matter if you have eyes, then you ramble more about how if you can get your pressure low enough you will pinch instead of chop, then you contradict yourself by saying its not worth it.

heres what i think the misconception is - you think that im saying that having a lower operating pressure will cause less chops because the bolt isnt capable of chopping so it pinches. thats not what i said!!! my god man learn how to read!

I said that lower operating pressure will cause less BREAKS, not CHOPS, there IS a difference. lower pressure means softer on the paintball when the AIR projecting the paintball hits the paintball- not the bolt pushing the ball past the detents.

Yes, you are correct, the bolt pinching the ball is chopping, hence the bolt chopping through the lower half of the ball.

You see, there is this thing called barrel breaks - they are caused by how brittle the paintball is and how much pressure hits the ball.


God can you read simple english. Heres what I said. Low lpr = low number of chops. I agree with that. Eyes = low number of chops.

Now, how low does the lpr have to be to not chop, well pretty dang low. Therefore I stated that it is not worth the money to get your lpr low enough for it to not chop reguardless.

Read that twice over, see if it makes sense, then post something. You seem to have a problem with this.

A lower operating pressure on the ION is good because that is essentially the force which the bolt moves. The operating pressure is the bolt pressure, no lpr.

Then you go into breaks, which are not even caused by the bolt. The bolt has nothing to do with barrel breaks. Breaks are caused by an uneven flight path in the barrel, which is caused by the pressure coming out of the bolt, not how fast the bolt is moving. This has more to do with inline pressure.



My second thought is with the freestyle. All im saying is that the ION is lighter 2.2<2.5 and it is more effcient according to reviews I have read. 950 < 1000-1400.

As for my third thought about upgrading the ION. I alredy have a delrin trigger being made for me for free, feednecks are alredy out, regs are alredy out, and barrels are alredy out. New Desigz is alredy working on triggers, bodies, bolts, and possibly boards. After all is said and done, you could potentially have a totally upgraded ION in the 600 range if you budget. All I can do is speculate right now, but the ION can be improved substantially in the bps range and in effciency.

Now, lets put your crappy review to the test. I want to see photos of the feedneck snapped off, and I want to see a video of you shooting it to see this "kick" and loudness.

50 bucks says you or your "freind" doesn't even have an ION and your bsing the whole thing.
   

Mcot2 Wednesday, February 23rd, 2005 | 4:09 pm PST
You can't expect upgrades 10 days after the thing came out. If your writing a review now, you have to take into account how new the gun was, and as with any product, if you buy something thats relitivley new, its not going to have upgrades right away, and it may have minor problems.

   

james52 Wednesday, February 23rd, 2005 | 4:30 pm PST
Ya dude lets see your broken feedneck, loudness and kick, oh and noticee how it says 8-55 people thought your review was helpful, kinda tells ya something, THAT YOUR REVIEW SUCKS AND IS TOTAL BS.
   

Thanatos2288 Wednesday, February 23rd, 2005 | 4:35 pm PST
"my guess is they capped it there because the solenoid is probably really bad and will exlpode if u cycle too fast.."

bro, no offense, but your retarded. Im not gonna sit here and say this is the best gat ever, but it is certainly not as bad as you say it is. You obviously had bad luck with yours but you could try to give an objective review. It's people like yourself that make it so that any gat here with a review less than 9 is considered bad.
   

Sporefrog Wednesday, February 23rd, 2005 | 6:21 pm PST
quote:
Originally posted by Mcot2


God can you read simple english. Heres what I said. Low lpr = low number of chops. I agree with that. Eyes = low number of chops.

Now, how low does the lpr have to be to not chop, well pretty dang low. Therefore I stated that it is not worth the money to get your lpr low enough for it to not chop reguardless.


are you borderline retarded? LPR pressure has NOTHING to do with chops (if you have eyes, or if your gun operates at a higher pressure then 20 psi). i doubt you even know what a chop is.

here are some variables that affect if your gun will chop or not.
1 speed of hopper, if your shooting faster then your hopper can feed you may chop (without eyes)
2 eyes - if you dont have eyes your gun will not know if theres a paintball in the breech and fire anyway- it has nothing to stop it from chopping if its blind.

btw eyes= no chops.

Well with an LPR you could lower it some what and decrease the chance of having a or break.

quote:
Read that twice over, see if it makes sense, then post something. You seem to have a problem with this.

A lower operating pressure on the ION is good because that is essentially the force which the bolt moves. The operating pressure is the bolt pressure, no lpr.

Then you go into breaks, which are not even caused by the bolt. The bolt has nothing to do with barrel breaks. Breaks are caused by an uneven flight path in the barrel, which is caused by the pressure coming out of the bolt, not how fast the bolt is moving. This has more to do with inline pressure.


Well with higher pressure there is more force behind the ball. Like if the bore is to small and with high pressure the ball would just break. With low pressure the ball would be pushed through and not break becuase there is less force behind it. The velocity would be lower but the ball wouldn't break.

quote:
My second thought is with the freestyle. All im saying is that the ION is lighter 2.2<2.5 and it is more effcient according to reviews I have read. 950 < 1000-1400.


I already showed you, using simple, easy to understand, math, that MY freestyle gets better effeicency. And I also said that I weighed the Freestyle and it weighed 2.3 pounds. The 2.5 pounds would be if there was a drop on it, which mine doesn't have. The extra .1 pound is from the battery (no manufactuers weigh guns with batteries) and the on/off (since the ION has a duckbill). If you subtract that weight they probobly weigh right around the same.

quote:

Now, lets put your crappy review to the test. I want to see photos of the feedneck snapped off, and I want to see a video of you shooting it to see this "kick" and loudness.


The feedneck wasn't snapped off heres my quote:
" now i cant take my feedneck off because the threads are messed up. if i ever want to take it off its going to cost 100 dollars thats what smart parts said."
Its not snapped off so a picture would do nothing.
Last edited on Wednesday, February 23rd, 2005 at 6:34 pm PST
   
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