The accuracy of this review is disputed. Please see discussion below.
Period of Product Use:
201 of 339 people found this review helpful.
More than 5 years
Similar Products Used:
'00 WGP Autococker
'02 STO WGP Autococker
Angel Force Fly
and tested many more
Angel Force 4 Fly
14" DYE Ultralite
Crossfire 70ci peanut low output
Halo B w/ rip & Victory
'02 STO Autococker
WGP hinge frame
ANS pneumatics w/ QEV's
Shocktech Bomb 3-way
ANS GX-II Reg w/ 15* ASA
System X Drop
Crossfire 68ci 3000psi (800 psi preset) HPA tank
Both of these will help performance and easily transfer to your next marker.
It shoots a paintball.
Major step backwards in Autococker design.
I have used, tinkered, broken and repaired Autocockers for years and there is always something that holds true to all well maintained Autocockers... They are stable, reliable and fun to shoot. This review is going to be difficult to write without double standards towards other Autococker models as you will see...
Generally speaking for all mechanical Autocockers: (cut and pasted from another of my reviews for the newbs)
Before you go out on the field sit at home while your watching t.v. and just pull the trigger. I suggest that you don't run gas through it as to avoid pissing off Mom, Wife, Girlfriend, whatever (especially if the cat is on her lap. You won't be laughing long, I guarantee it.) Forget all that stuff Grandpa taught you about "squeezing" the trigger (sorry Grandpa, your stories are full of crap anyway) PULL it all the way and RELEASE it all the way. If you hesitate with this trigger, you will chop paint. The best way to look at how the 'cocker works is to call it a pump action gun and say that all the hoses and stuff in the front just pumps it for you. If you pull the trigger half way, that's like only pumping a pumper half way, that's what we call a "short stroke"
Upon using the "Sport" and "Pro" marker myself on separate occasions, I found them to be average at best for this class of marker. By no means should this marker be rated as a "High-End Mechanical" with other modern mechanical Autocockers or so called "Fockers". I can tell you it shot well, consistently, and reliably with no accolades towards speed. The trigger pull is long and heavy, especially on the "Sport" 1/2 hinge, which (as of yet) cannot be easily corrected or upgraded without voiding the worranty and altering complex sweet spots (i'll get to that). The Trilogy reminds me of a Wal-Mart version Autococker.
If you buy this marker, you'd better be satisfied with its performance because the "Trilogy Series" Autococker is designed to perform AS IS out of the box. This series of Autococker is specifically engineered to be inexpensive (AKA: cheap) rather than engineered to enhance any aspect of performance. Worr Games is banking on a reputation gained by previous (and higher quality) models to fool consumers into thinking that they are getting a "high-end" marker at a bargain price. I don't mean to downplay a marker because of cost, just understand that those planning to upgrade from a "low-end" marker to the Trilogy are buying right back into an entry level marker again. Those wishing to buy a great beginner marker will do well with the Trilogy. If you want to upgrade to a new marker, do yourself a favor by researching! If you don't mind spending more money in trade for an Autococker (or any other marker) with greater potential, it is worth the extra cost to have something that will keep up with constantly improving technology.
It takes a formal understanding of how regulator pressure, spring tension and timing work together to form "sweet spots" which allows for greatest shot-to-shot consistency at any rate of fire. The "Trilogy" is sweet spotted at the factory and is specifically engineered to "choke itself" upon changing any factory settings. In other words... you buy it, your stuck with it. That would be great if this were an exceptional performing marker.That's right kids, no upgrading! That ensures that once the market is flooded with these cheap 'cockers Worr Games will exclusively begin to cash in on patented & expensive upgrades to enhance the Trilogy's performance to a marker that deserves the true "high-end" label.
Here is a cut and pasted copy of the Trilogy description at the top of this page that I have broken down with my opinions:
TRILOGY SERIES AUTOCOCKER®-
In the past the price of authentic WGP® Autococker® markers has kept many players from obtaining the real deal. Now with the introduction of the all new Trilogy™ marker series, WGP® is making it possible for almost any player to shoot their very own authentic WGP® Autococker® marker. How many trademarks do you need in one paragraph? Reading between the lines tells you that they are extremely interested in the patenting rights for a reason. Only Worr Games will be able to produce the needed upgrades for the so-called "real deal". Good buisness idea on their part, just understand what you are buying
* New lightweight uni-body designNice * Closed bolt accuracywhich is no more accurate than open bolt. True accuracy is gained in proper paint / bore match. * Air efficient operationSame as any well maintained mechanical Autococker * Angled bottom-lineSo what? * A velocity adjusterLet's hope it has a velocity adjuster, we'd be pretty screwed without one * New integrated 3-wayA good move to save money in manufacturing and also ensures that you cant run to Shocktech for a $35.00 3-way which helps the marker shoot faster with a shorter trigger. $35.00 costs less than a case of paint!! * High performance LPRThat's pretty irrelevant. The Low Pressure Regulator operates the pneumatics but does nothing to place a paintball on it's target * Pull-pinThis one is funny. How else are you going to keep the bolt from blowing out the back of the marker? With a twig? ha ha * Micro polished ramAs they are on every Autococker * Push button safetyGod, lets hope so!!!
* .691 and .687 barrel backsNice feature, if you don't upgrade the barrel anyway * Wrap-around gripWhich does absolutely nothing * 3d millingIf you wear those glasses with the red and blue lenses. Sorry, bad joke. * Delron boltThat's a nice feature * Angled air receiverHelps CO2 efficiency , thanks Regrind. * Inline regulatorThis is the regulator that should claim high performance. If you attempt to change regulator output psi or upgrade the reg, you'll be in a world of hurt! Regulator output psi works in conjunction with the valve cup seal and is as important as good timing to achieve great consistency. The only Autocockers that don't come standard with inline regs are the cheaper Trilogy counterparts * Full hinge frameThe only Autocockers that don't come standard with full hinge frames are the cheaper Trilogy counterparts and expensive electros
On two occasions I've handed my old (but versitile enough to be upgraded to today's standards) '02 STO Autococker to Trilogy users to let them play with it. They both handed it back to me and asked: "How can I make mine shoot that fast?" Unfortunately I had to tell them that their Trilogy has little potential beyond stock performance. I always recommend that that the timing be left alone once it works well. That's where the double-standard I mentioned comes into play. This marker needs upgrades to reach true modern "high-end" potential, some of which require the marker to be re-timed. Unfortunately the Trilogy Pro that I tested before writing this review needed to be sent back to the factory because the owner could not get enough velocity to shoot ten feet. Apparently he tried to change something and the marker "choked itself" like I stated earlier. He really should not have messed with it, but the gun shouldn't require factory maintenance as it's designed.
Some manufactures that compete with Worr Games are producing mechanical"auto-cocking" (fockers) markers that hold much greater quality standards and will easily out-of-box (provided you use HPA and a fast enough hopper) perform much better than Trilogies. They are more expensive but, in my opinion, worth the initial extra cost; depending on your intentions in playing paintball. If asked about the Trilogy, I would state that it will work well as a "bare bones & basic" marker for a low price. No complications... no hassle. Excellent marker for a beginner that doesn't deliver fast enough to immediately necessitate expensive HPA and high R.O.F. hoppers to solve associated problems. Many markers will deliver just as good accuracy & consistency with greater speed and functionality for a comparable price. Buying paintball equiptment can be just as strategic as playing the game itself. In conclusion; I'd say that the Trilogy series would make a superior field rental marker or beginner... nothing more. This is an average marker that deserves an average score... 5/10.
I welcome friendly comments and argument intended to make this review better.
5 out of 10
Last edited on Wednesday, March 29th, 2006 at 7:08 pm PST
You can review something without eve testing it and that appears to be what you did. You didn't say a thing about how it shot. You just gave "stats" that were pi$$ poor and very inaccurate, so my suggestion is to actually shoot the marker before you give it a BS review.
quote:Originally posted by AirSin2000 You CAN replace the trigger frame on any of the models. You can also replace the ram. These come with STO pneumatics. You revied this on it's stats not it's perfomance
It'll take a little more than a trigger frame and new ram for this marker to reach it's full potential. Had you actually read my entire review you would recall my stating; and I quote:
quote: Upon using the "Sport" and "Pro" marker myself on separate occasions, I found them to be average at best for this class of marker. By no means should this marker be rated as a "High-End Mechanical" with other modern mechanical Autocockers or so called "Fockers". I can tell you it shot well, consistently, and reliably with no accolades towards speed. The trigger pull is long and heavy, especially on the "Sport" 1/2 hinge, which (as of yet) cannot be corrected or upgraded.
If you are so knowledgeable, what kind of mechanical frame are you going to upgrade with to drastically reduce travel without re-timing or voiding the warranty? What kind of ram are you going to install to increase cycle rate without adjusting LPR pressure to reduce your greater risk of chopping... without voiding the warranty ? When Worr Games (and friends) exclusively releases Trilogy specific upgrades to bring these things up to speed, how many people do believe will leave these "wonderful" markers stock?
quote:Originally posted by jrcooke117 You can review something without eve testing it and that appears to be what you did. You didn't say a thing about how it shot. You just gave "stats" that were pi$$ poor and very inaccurate, so my suggestion is to actually shoot the marker before you give it a BS review.
Go back and read my review before you post BS comments. Where is your "accurate" review for the Trilogy?
I have used many Autocockers, (including Trilogy "sport" and "pro", jrcooke117... quit thinking) and In contrast have found no aspects of its performance to rate above average. You'll notice that I stated "average" not "bad" or "poor". I would only give this marker a "10" if I had no experience with other markers from which to base experience. The both of you need to act like you know something somewhere else!
Last edited on Thursday, March 3rd, 2005 at 10:24 am PST
quote:Originally posted by cockercane It'll take a little more than a trigger frame and new ram for this marker to reach it's full potential.
Cockercane, the people reading these reviews are not going to be upgrading their marker to something that may cost you $3, 000. This is not why you buy this marker, you must be a very rich man to be able to afford soemthing so expensive. Some of us only have part-time jobs, cars, school, girl freinds, and some actually have freinds, this is where a majority of money is spent.
You are obviously not hurting for cash, so your review is extremely biased. This gun is for someone who wants overall preformance in a stock marker, otherwise they could purchase a Orracle, or Prostock, and for someone with your income a Superstock. Technically saying how much your marker is upgraded has nothing to do with the marker itself.
I bet some of your reviews, or your guns are so modified that they have no original pieces on them with the exeption of a body, maybe the feed neck, what kind of a review is that?
"Umm yea great gun, but nothing on it is stock, so as long as you buy it and turn it into something else it is great." -Example
Your review is extremely biased, i would suggest instead of comparing this to Pro level markers, to review it as the gun itself, how it shoot/the price/accuracy of the STOCK barrel. This gun was intended to remain stock with the exeption of a barrel, and other easily replacable parts.
Your review says nothing at all about the gun, except that you cant upgrade it to something that has nothing to do with this gun at all anyways.
Reading between the lines of my review does nothing to discredit what I have written. Instead of biased, why didn't you just say inept? Speculation about my relationships and bank account reflects nothing of my experience gleaned from nearly four years of using Autocockers. If you must know my current "nothing stock" Autococker has taken me three years to build piece-by-piece out of mostly used parts and has cost an AVERAGE ESTIMATE of $81.00 ($101. for high estimate) per year to build. How many cases of paint does that work out to be? I started from the ground just like anyone else and used patience, experience and research (this is obviously a relative statement) to do the job right. Not everyone has my experience, not everyone is going to understand that this marker was engineered to be inexpensive rather than engineered to perform better than older "base model" Autocockers. Having said that I need to reinforce my original conclusion. I have never stated that the Trilogy is bad... you are misunderstanding the meaning of "average".
Don't try to pass me off as someone who is so thoughtless and inept as to fail in contrast between different classes of markers. In other words I would never say that the Trilogy is garbage simply based on the perfromance of my Angel. Apparently my point is not clear enough, I'll edit my review as soon as I have the time.
Last edited on Wednesday, March 9th, 2005 at 2:20 pm PST
So if it is what you claim to be "average" shouldn't it be at least given a 7, or even an 8.... No one want to know what the preformance of a 21" Progressive barrel on this will do to the preformance of the stock barrel, will they? If you say the stock barrel is good as long as you do not use it; this does not say anything about the barrel itself. You review in not inept (inappropriate), it is merely biased, and inncorrect, but not inept.
We, the reader, want to know what it shoots like all stock, consistancy, rate of fire, air efficency, but deffinitly not what the non-stock barrel will preform like.
Rate the gun for what it is, not what you can do to it. Tel about what you can and can not do to it, but do not rate it inncorrectly merely because you cannot put a Worr Blade on it.
Its a great gun, shoots awsome, preforms as well as any post-ProStock does; at least from my own experience, which i must add is quite extensive.
Give it a reasonable rating, and you ONLY TESTED it, which also leads anyone to conclude that this is a biased review.
Go back and read my review, or did you skip the part where I stated:
quote:I can tell you it shot well, consistently, and reliably
quote:If asked about this marker, I would state that it will work well as a "bare bones & basic" marker for a low price. No complications... no hassle.
How many descriptive words does it take to describe (something that is in my opinion) average without exaggeration? Am I supposed to say something vague like: "It shoost darts" to satisfy our lack of common basis for comparison?
Anybody can take into consideration the fact that I only tested... thats why that information is given. Next time you write a review, pay attention to the rating system 5, not 7, not 8... 5 is an average score. 4= less than average 1= poor.
You lost me on the 21" progresive barrel thing.
Last edited on Friday, March 11th, 2005 at 6:59 am PST
For some reason, I actually thought this was a decent review. It contrasted nicely with the others here, thus alerting potential customers to the many downsides of this product. I believe you were a little harsh, but still, kudos for saying what you TRUELY think, as opposed to being a fanboy, which is all to easy these days. Hell, even I am occasionally guilty of this.
Thank you f2f4,
I am never insulted when people disagree with my reviews (unless people like, jrcooke117, disagree without knowing why they disagree). I actually try to remain quite open minded to the fact that someone may prove me wrong... that's what reinforces the strength of the review process.
In my opinion the review process becomes weak when people vote "10" (perfection) on a product based on product popularity, inexperience or how it rates against their previous paintball marker. If I contrast between a slingshot and a Stingray, the Stingray will get a misleading score of "10". That's the point that SpyderFenix was trying to bring up (kind of, just the other way around) and its a great point to consider!!
The scoring process harbors a huge undefinable grey area which is understood differently by each reviewer, like an opinion it cannot be correct or incorrect which makes the written review all that much more important. I make no attempt to insult Trilogy owners / reviewers... my attempt is to help those who are considering the purchase of this marker understand what they are buying.
As you stated, being a "fan boy" is unhelpful and aids in people getting ripped off. Helping fellow 'ballers is why PBreview exists. As much as I love this sport, I try not to be a fan boy, although surely I'm guilty at times as well. But being an anti-fan boy can be just as bad!!
Thanks again f2f4.
Last edited on Monday, March 28th, 2005 at 10:20 am PST
Good review. I've gotta say that I disagree on many points, but you gave a good review nonetheless. You seem to know at least as much about how a cocker works as I do and I'm thankful that someone knows a little of what they're talking about around here.
With that said, why on earth did you regurgitate up onto us all of the stats we already know about the gun? It's totally irrelevant. I think you spent more time talking about upgradability rather than actual performance (which is what most of us are really interested in). My only other complaint is concerning your remarks about the trigger frame of the pro. If you really have held this marker, you would know right away that the issue with the trigger frame is by no means the heaviness of the trigger pull. Quite to the contrary, the trigger pull is slightly lighter than that of stock 03 and 04 verts as well as prostocks. The only probelm is that the trigger pull is a little bit longer than any other hinge frame.
quote:Originally posted by nightbringer
why on earth did you regurgitate up onto us all of the stats we already know about the gun? It's totally irrelevant.
I agree! To you, myself and anybody who is well versed in the workings of an Autococker, may indeed find some statements irrelevant. Don't forget about the newcomers to Autocockers (and Autococker terminology)... they are here for information same as any and may not understand how featureless this marker is in comparison to high end Autocockers. That is the contrast that I'm trying to bring to light in this review. It is my opinion that anyone considering the purchase of the Trilogy as an upgrade would do themselves a favor by saving $270 towards a more versatile auto cocking marker.
quote:I think you spent more time talking about unreadability rather than actual performance (which is what most of us are really interested in).
I really don't know what I can say about the performance without using misleading or vague terms, that and I only tested. Shot-per-shot I thought the Trilogy shot well and that's what I said. I love "auto-cocking" markers but I am not one of those who believes that closed bolts are more or less effective than anything else. I NEVER speak in terms of accuracy, only consistency.
quote:My only other complaint is concerning your remarks about the trigger frame of the pro. If you really have held this marker, you would know right away that the issue with the trigger frame is by no means the heaviness of the trigger pull. Quite to the contrary, the trigger pull is slightly lighter than that of stock 03 and 04 verts as well as prostocks.
Go out there and shoot a mechanical Autococker that is set up well (which is why I had to speak in terms of upgrade ability) or test something that WGP hasn't made, then revise that statement.
I just saw an ad for this marker like 10 minutes ago and thought to myself "OMG a cocker for 250$, WTF ??????" This really startled me since I just bought a Spyder for 200. So, in turn, I thought I would visit PBreview and see what people had to say about it. When I read reviews, I list them from lowest ranking to highest ranking because the lowest scores are usually the most critical. These are the ones I want to see. In general the 10 scores are people who just bought a product, used it a day or two, didn't have any major problems, etc., the lower scores typically being people who get something and have a problem with it. So anyway, back to my point. In my honest opinion this HAS to be the best review I have ever read on this site (excepting the snide humor :P). It is very informative to many readers. I found the info to be very helpful, thanks cockercane !
Well, I have read all the comments and really agree with Cockercane I could not have done a better job writing a review of this Marker. I Purchased the Marker for my 10 year old Son for his first year of play and that is what these markers are made for or just the casual player. Good price, Low maintenance and a great intro to the world of autocockers. I think we should give the marker a couple more points for the Marketing Dept.
I have some things to say about the review, some good some bad.
I liked that it was a thought-out review. If you had a strong opinion you did not get carried away with it. You were informative and intelligent in about half of the review. Unfortunately, though, your writing was mostly about how the gun is difficult to upgrade. You were quite redundant in saying that this gun is for beginners who dont want to upgrade, and most of this part was pure rhetoric. Also, you focoused entirely too much on "reading between the lines." Now i do not know what caused this obsession, but i think you read too much. My least favorite part of the review was that you presented it like you work for a competing company and you dont want anybody to buy this gun. And like most advertising, you applied false logic, using "proof" to make people go, "ah, well if that is true, then he must be right!" I would prefer strictly information as apposed to the grandiloquence in the latter part. Also, the review was insulting to users of the trilogy, which is unneccessairy. But the insults were not direct, but basically - reading between the lines - you said that all non-beginners add parts to their gun, so the gun is just for beginners. And most angry people here are not beginners and are angry.
The review was half informative, half total BS and, truly, stupid. Take away the latter half and then you have positive comments.
ps. 5/10 is, scholastically, an F. C is average, or a 7/10. Maybe on the site it is different, but many people think like that.
Kevin, whatshouldido, PiKeLz, thank you all.
Well, PiKeLz, speaking of rhetoric, you've got an impressive manner of weaving words to indirectly attack me through my review. By responding to you am I standing up for myself or making my review better?
quote:Originally posted by PiKeLzI have some things to say about the review, some good some bad. You were informative and intelligent in about half of the review. The review was half informative, half total BS and, truly, stupid. Take away the latter half and then you have positive comments.
So only the parts that you agree with are intelligent and correct. Which parts would that be? Or are you putting a (very small) positive light in your comment to serve as sheep's clothing? Do you find no value in critical thinking? To write an all positive review would truly be, as you said, half informative and would serve nobody well.
quote: You were quite redundant in saying that this gun is for beginners who don't want to upgrade, and most of this part was pure rhetoric.
What did you believe the point of my review to be? Perhaps all the "rhetoric" isn't enough to make my conclusion clear.
quote:My least favorite part of the review was that you presented it like you work for a competing company and you don't want anybody to buy this gun.
I can assure you that I spend money on paintball rather than make money from it. ; )
quote: you applied false logic, using "proof" to make people go, "ah, well if that is true, then he must be right!"
Please explain where my logic and proof are false. I wouldn't want anything false in my review. I do make mistakes so bring them to light and they will be fixed... long as you aren't saying that my opinion is false.
quote:I would prefer strictly information as apposed to the grandiloquence in the latter part.
If you are convinced that grandiose manner is used to mask misinformation then, by all means, vote "not helpful".
quote:Also, the review was insulting to users of the trilogy, which is unneccessairy.
You are going out on a limb buddy... Who is being more insulting here, with words such as: stupid, half informative, total B.S. ? Reviews are directed towards those who have not yet purchased a product. If you have already purchased or used this product, the review is less helpful due to the fact that you can draw your own conclusions without a review.
quote:But the insults were not direct, but basically - reading between the lines - you said that all non-beginners add parts to their gun, so the gun is just for beginners.
How is that insulting or incorrect? I didn't know squat about upgrades and their potential when I was a newb!! Even if some have played for a while doesn't mean that they are knowledgeable with Autocockers.
quote: And most angry people here are not beginners and are angry.
Um... ok. Why would a review make someone angry, unless some are just looking for a reason.
quote:ps. 5/10 is, scholastically, an F. C is average, or a 7/10. Maybe on the site it is different, but many people think like that.
Thank you for understanding.
If this marker is decidedly preferential to a user, I don't intend to say they made a poor choice. Perhaps more "rhetoric" (and yet another lengthy edit) is needed to explain. Seems to me that I was reiforcing statements more than revisisng them in response to your comment. I probably should have sated your opinion by not wasting my time in responding (that was an example of an insult) but was quite entertained in doing so. You got my argumentitive side this morning.
P.S. no such thing as reading too much.
Last edited on Thursday, April 21st, 2005 at 8:53 am PST
Thank you Cockercane for this review. I found it very helpful in my decision of which gun to purchase. while your review did not completely destroy my interest in this gun, it has allowed me to put more thought into whether this gun will be an improvement upon my current marker.