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fishhead Friday, October 28th, 2005
Period of
Product Use:
1 year114 of 118 people found this review helpful.

Paintball
Experience:
More than 5 years
Similar
Products Used:
PM5, DM5, DM4, Shocker, (also Timmies, Egos )
Marker Setup: Dust Blue 06 Proto Matrix, Orange CF bolt, 14" Ultralite barrel (blue back and black front), Hybrid grind push-button on/off, UL frame (also, Reloader B, 70/4500 HP Crossfire stubby w/ 04 Dye Rhino tank cover or Crossfire Stinger 51/3000 w/ custom Gucci tank cover)
Recommended
Upgrades:
The new Dye Ultralite grip frame (WOW!) and/or Virtue board, barrel kit (sizing paint)
Strengths: Smaller, lighter, better looking, complete marker out of box.
Weaknesses: Only dust anodizing available
Review: How we got it:
Stood outside, peeking through the curtains at the Dye booth at World Cup before anyone's booths are open, after Wilma had hit. Gary Shows asks if I wanna see the DM6, well I say 'YES!' of course!. Anywho, he tells me to pull the curtain aside to look in so I do. He then walks up and says, "no, you gotta touch it" so he lets us in and he hands a DM6 to my son and the grip is AMAZING. He then asks if we want to see the new PM6. Well, you know the answer, we walk over to the Proto booth, pull aside the curtains, and there they are on the wall next to the 05's. Let me tell you, no picture I have seen yet shows how much smaller the PM6 really is. 1/3 to 1/2 inch, no big deal right? Wrong, after you add on/off and feedneck, its more like 1 inch. Its is better balanced, and the new Olive just rocks. My son lays out $$$ and buys the first one sold @ World Cup, maybe first sold retail! Gary then signs the box.

How it shoots:
Incredibly easy to roll on the new trigger. Just picked it u and could EASILY hit 15-17 CPS. After adding a Reloader B and 45/4500 tank, perfectly balanced at the grip. Smaller, lighter, tighter, what else could you want? The Dye techs told me that it is internally IDENTICAL to the DM6, though the DM runs at a slightly lower internal operating ressure. All i can say, the PM6 has less kick than any DM or 05 Proto I have ever shot, including mine. SD Legacy was running it @ Cup and it looked & sounded like it was running perfectly.

Addition onto original review:
Here is my son's marker setup:
Olive 06 Proto Matrix
Virtue Board
14" 2-piece Proto barrel
Olive Hybrid Grenade grips
Diamond Black Reloader-B
68/3000 Crossfire or 51/3000 Crossfire

We ran a case of paint through it last night (10/30). Got about 1000 shots off a 68/2800 fill. We ran the gun in all modes. We were hitting the hopper limit in mode 2 with 6 AA energizer cells on fully auto. Accuracy is equal to that of my 05 proto. My son's accuracy test: at 30' start a string on a soccer ball and roll it into a trash can 20' away without moving. He did it with 70 or so balls left in the hopper. The nightkast4life review has to be bogus. He's 12 for crying out loud!

New stuff on marker (02/01/06): He just got an Ultralite frame, and as I stated above WOW! I didn't think I was going to like it as much as my son since I have big hands, but, before we bought it, Roger Farmer (LTZ) told me its perfect, even for big hands, if you are wear gloves. He is right, the frame just rocks. There is even a little LED HUD that tells you what mode you are in without moving your hands from the marker. Great trigger, and you can adjust it without removing parts. Also, it has an integral dovetail mount that is loosened through a hole in the grip. One last thing, it makes the marker 3 oz lighter, that's almost 1/4 of a pound.

I just bought 2 PM6s, one black, the other blue. Mixed parts and posted pix of all three. It shoots amazing, nearly perfect out of box. Only problem, some metal shavings (spiral) in dump chamber. If you get one, remove the bolt, clean it thoroughly, and re-lube. I use Shocktech Bun Butta, it seems slicker cold and hot.

Added 10/28/06:
Just got through playing today. I keep trying new parts on my Shocker, my son just built a Shocker, we test, we run 'em they work great, yada yada. Some problems; we go back to our Protos: PERFECT. I haven't played with my Proto for weeks, it chronos perfect (285 fps) and ball-on-ball. SAme for my son. And he is like, WOW, my Proto is perfect. Truly, this marker deserves a 10. I hadn't lubed or done anything to it since sometime in early September. It just RUNS well.

Added 06/04/2007:
WOW, PM6 are sooo cheap. They are really under-valued. I need to add/clarify two items:
- Even though there are a few o-rings, maintaining a PM6 (any PM or DM) is very easy due to the fuse bolt design. Easier than any Shocker, though the design is more complicated due to the LPR.
- I have never had any marker have as little kick as a PM6 (w/o tophat mod). This probably applies to Matrices as well. My PM5 had an STD reg on it and it shot AMAZING, just too big.

I would rate it higher than a 10 if I could due to its inexpensiveness (is that a word?).

Added 04/03/2008:
I haven't played in a while & I haven't used the PM6 in a while. So I air it up, chrono, and... PERFECT! It was shooting laserbeams. Even with 5-6 month old Stingers. Crazy fast and fairly efficient . I got a HOT 3000 psi fill on my 70/4500 stubby. I got 1 hopper (Vlocity Jr.) and 3 pods (locklids) for about 600 paintballs and was at 1400-1500 when I walked off the field.

My current setup:
Blue PM6 with black parts
- Black Ultralite frame
- CF Orange bolt with small tophat mod
- Blue 05 Hybrid Grind push-button on/off
- 14" Dye Ultralte barrel
Conclusion: REVISED: Cheaper than the DM6, as light as the DM6, and, if you want, you can upgrade to the Ultralite trigger frame (shaves another 1/4 pound of marker weight!) that is the main difference between the DM and PM. If you try it, you will like it. Also, its real inexpensive. You can pick up a used one cheaper than a new PMR.
Rating:
10 out of 10Last edited on Thursday, April 3rd, 2008 at 10:53 am PST
 

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fishhead Sunday, August 6th, 2006 | 7:06 pm PST
1) Lucky Bolt - My son is getting over 1000 off his 45/4500, super low kick
2) Virtue Board - Adjustable, superior eye logic, instant on, tournament modes.
3) Matching 14" tip, Dye Ultralite (16" is a little long)
   

FDS Sunday, August 6th, 2006 | 9:48 pm PST
i always liked 16in tip because i play mid/back i no that its going to be same accuracy but i like and i think it looks better (imo)
lucky bolt i'll look into
virtue i'm only going to play xpsl and i'm not planning to go into nxl/psp (im 13)

But thanks for the tips
   

Dyegunsrock Monday, August 7th, 2006 | 5:41 am PST
ok if u hda the choice between a Smart Pats Shocker and the PM6 what would you get?
   

FDS Monday, August 7th, 2006 | 10:18 am PST
quote:
Originally posted by Dyegunsrock
ok if u hda the choice between a Smart Pats Shocker and the PM6 what would you get?


PM6=better customer support, more reliable, more efficent stock, better looking (imo) and if your scared about weight go to the gym. But it is still like under 2 lbs

Shocler= sp customer support=crap, not as reliable (dynasty had a couple of shockers go bad, and i haven't heard of one of SD Legacy PM's go bad or ironmens trix's go bad) Dye = better quality, GAS HOG stock, don't no about weight

hope it helped Fishead will probably be a bigger help


And i would wait to see what the hybrid PM6 looks like before you get a regular proto (release at world cup)
Last edited on Monday, August 7th, 2006 at 10:30 am PST
   

Dyegunsrock Monday, August 7th, 2006 | 5:32 pm PST
quote:
Originally posted by FDS



PM6=better customer support, more reliable, more efficent stock, better looking (imo) and if your scared about weight go to the gym. But it is still like under 2 lbs

Shocler= sp customer support=crap, not as reliable (dynasty had a couple of shockers go bad, and i haven't heard of one of SD Legacy PM's go bad or ironmens trix's go bad) Dye = better quality, GAS HOG stock, don't no about weight

hope it helped Fishead will probably be a bigger help


And i would wait to see what the hybrid PM6 looks like before you get a regular proto (release at world cup)


Ok but Im most likely going to get the shocker with a new bolt(if i get it) and I mean the Shocker has that Max-Flo thing which i must say is really good....... I hope fishead will help a little more, but thanks...
   

Dyegunsrock Monday, August 7th, 2006 | 5:35 pm PST
quote:
Originally posted by fishhead
Firstly, the Evil Minion is a rebodied PM6. The two reasons I would pick the PM6:

1) The Minion is ugly (imo)

2) I wonder what Evil tech support would be. I have an Evil bolt in a 'cocker and I had some technical questions and NEVER got a respone after several e-mails. ALso, I have never seen an Evil booth at a tournament but Dye/Proto is at everything. The service from Dye/Proto has been 10+ on everything. They even sent me a replacement microswitch/battery harness for free, I just e-mailed them and I got a reply the next day, the harness 2 days later and I even told the that I broke the harness, not a defect. That's service.

Secondly, I have yelled or tapped the side of my Reloader-B to get it to feed when there were only a few balls left in the hoppper.

Thirdly, 'cockers are a little sensitive to paint quality, I sold my E-Bladed 'cocker for that very reason. Also, the Karni has a single eye, the PM6 has break-beam. The PM6 has two moving parts, the trigger and the bolt and timing issues are only Dwell and LPR pressure, what about a 'cocker? Finally, my PM6 shoots REAL well. Fast, accurate, super-low kick (i did the tophat mod for efficiency which increases kick a little) and tolerant of cheap/rec paint. Oh, yeah, did I mention that Dye/Proto tech support is awesome?

Its kinda sad but ive seen so many evil booths at the events around here( Barrie Orillia The GTA all in ontario)
   

fishhead Monday, August 7th, 2006 | 10:25 pm PST
I have both, a 2k3 Base Shocker, FULLY upped and a super-upped PM6. Which max flo thing are you speaking of? The Micro-max flo? Its just a regulator, not even variable.

Shocker Strengths: Super small, super-light, low-kick, accurate, more aftermarket parts than PM6, maybe the most customizable marker (outside of cockers).
Shocker Weaknesses: Gas hog (w/o HE bolt, 1000 shots off a 68/4500, 1400-1500 w/ HE Bolt), single eye, ASA screw hole is prone to stripping if you are ham-fisted.

PM6 Strengths: Super fast out of the box, very complete out of the box, ultra-low kick, very accurate (maybe cocker accurate) break-beam eyes, lots of quality aftermarket parts, though triggers are still a little thin, you can get the Ultralite Frame.
PM6 Weaknesses: Not gas efficient (1200 off a 68/4500), some quality control issues with metal shavings in the internals (i have seen this on 4 PM6s) and on/offs not working. Also, bad threading on ASA, can only use a Hyper II unless you force it.

My PM6 is my tournament marker and my Shocker is a backup. The Shocker has been as reliable as my PM6, maybe more so since I have had it longer and I bought it used. I love shooting both, neither is a bad marker. the smaller/lighter setup is the Shocker, but for $750, the PM6 is totally comlete out of the box.

I am not sure if there will be a Hybrid PM6, what with Gary Shows leaving Dye and being completely Hybrid. It was supposed to be out at Vegas PSP. Maybe we should look for a Hybrid Timmy...
   

Dyegunsrock Tuesday, August 8th, 2006 | 6:30 am PST
quote:
Originally posted by fishhead
I have both, a 2k3 Base Shocker, FULLY upped and a super-upped PM6. Which max flo thing are you speaking of? The Micro-max flo? Its just a regulator, not even variable.

Shocker Strengths: Super small, super-light, low-kick, accurate, more aftermarket parts than PM6, maybe the most customizable marker (outside of cockers).
Shocker Weaknesses: Gas hog (w/o HE bolt, 1000 shots off a 68/4500, 1400-1500 w/ HE Bolt), single eye, ASA screw hole is prone to stripping if you are ham-fisted.

PM6 Strengths: Super fast out of the box, very complete out of the box, ultra-low kick, very accurate (maybe cocker accurate) break-beam eyes, lots of quality aftermarket parts, though triggers are still a little thin, you can get the Ultralite Frame.
PM6 Weaknesses: Not gas efficient (1200 off a 68/4500), some quality control issues with metal shavings in the internals (i have seen this on 4 PM6s) and on/offs not working. Also, bad threading on ASA, can only use a Hyper II unless you force it.

My PM6 is my tournament marker and my Shocker is a backup. The Shocker has been as reliable as my PM6, maybe more so since I have had it longer and I bought it used. I love shooting both, neither is a bad marker. the smaller/lighter setup is the Shocker, but for $750, the PM6 is totally comlete out of the box.

I am not sure if there will be a Hybrid PM6, what with Gary Shows leaving Dye and being completely Hybrid. It was supposed to be out at Vegas PSP. Maybe we should look for a Hybrid Timmy...


I plan on getting the 2k5 or 2k6 shocker(not sure if the design has changed) with a Smart Parts Turbo Bolt kit(drop in) and If I get the PM6 I dont even know what upgrades to get..... probably the Evolve Proto Bolt Kit
   

Dyegunsrock Tuesday, August 8th, 2006 | 6:31 am PST
And I am talking about the micro(adjustable) Max-Flo because the proshop downtown sells the Shockers with the micros for free....
   

FDS Tuesday, August 8th, 2006 | 8:38 am PST
a hybrid timmy will be awsome :)

But the reason i would still get a PM6 is that if you EVER have a problem with it Dye/proto will send you the parts you need to get you up and running. And with my experiences with Sp i have a ion and nerve i had to fix it my self. But i just naturally no how to work on guns but my first problem with the ion i tried emailing SP i actuallly called Sp 5 days straight and they never answered thier phone :(


And i don't think this is possiable but i heard somebody say that the maxflow was worst then the ion stock reg but somehow i seriusly doub't it.
Last edited on Tuesday, August 8th, 2006 at 8:39 am PST
   

fishhead Tuesday, August 8th, 2006 | 10:31 am PST
There are several 'Max Flo' regulators:
1) Manifold: this is a tank regulator that you can setup to be your only regulator, SP used to sell these on the Shocker Ultimate with a gas-through grip, no Vertical Max Flo (more on this regulator below). Very fast recharge rate and adjustable. Also, allows you to unscrew your tank for traveling since the regulator replaces your on/off. This is the older style which is sort of 'S' shaped. Excellent but bulky/heavy.
2) Inline: Essentially the same as the Manifold, but the entire thing is lined up. Dynasty used to use this exclusively. It has a tank guage and an output pressure guage. The weight isn't an issue since your are replacing a tank regulator and the on/off.
3) Vertical: This is the stock regulator for Shockers and Nerves. It has a bad rep that I personally have not experienced, though I have never used one in a tournament. Consistency might be an issue, but not recharge; it will keep up with your marker (after break-in) during long strings without noticeable drop-off.
4) Micro: From what I have read and seen, these are preset for either low (450 psi) or high (650-850, not sure which) pressure. This is essentially a regular tank regulator with the exception of 2 things: unscrew-able and no on/off. Not sure on performance. But, if the reg is worth $100, you still have to buy a tank (4500 psi) without the reg or pay for the whole thing and eat the cost of a regulator. I say, stick with Crossfire!

I agree, the Dye/Proto tech support is SUPERB! At a tournament or even via e-mail, they rock. I have never needed to use SP tech support though. After all is said and done, I will probably sell my PM6 before I sell my Shocker, but that might be sentiment, not quality/performance. Shockers feel right. The Shocker I just sold is pictured under the Shocker SFT reviews, picture is dust-black and red, filled with NDZ, CP, & Virtue. My 'keeper' is a much lower rated picture, all black w/ hybrid t-money 15 degree asa, CP, Gucci tank, Hybrid Shelled reloader B and System-x push-button on/off. That marker is the basis for my Shocker SFT review and it ROCKS.
Last edited on Tuesday, August 8th, 2006 at 10:40 am PST
   

FDS Tuesday, August 8th, 2006 | 12:26 pm PST
i just don't like any of SP guns after all of the problems just my experience though so get what ever you want
   

fishhead Tuesday, August 8th, 2006 | 1:47 pm PST
FDS, check this out:
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=1693199

Note the grips, they are Hybrid EGO grips. Also, no bolt-pin and the eye covers are similar to DM4/5/C/6. This gets my vote for the next Hybrid PL marker.

BTW, was it the battery that was wrong with your friend's PM6?
   

FDS Tuesday, August 8th, 2006 | 2:15 pm PST
that is one sick gat and was it a timmy becasue it looked like a bunch of stuff like a shocker and DM ego ect ect... How much is that going to cost i want to get one.

And i have no idea what is wrong with it i haven't seen it for a couple of weeks but at least it still shoots.

Do you no whenit'll be realeased
Last edited on Tuesday, August 8th, 2006 at 2:17 pm PST
   

fishhead Tuesday, August 8th, 2006 | 2:21 pm PST
Lots of rumors, if its a poppit valve (timmy, ego, cyborg, etc) or a spool valve like DMs or Shockers. Its hard to deny the smoothness of spool valve, but one of my teammates has an Aim bodied timmy, and its fast, efficient, and has very low kick, so I guess it has more to do with how its tuned.

Oh, yeah, I held Zack Long's Timmy before a UAPL match and he had a CP reg, not a BL Torpedo, just like the pics of the new BL marker.

I just got an 06 Ego and it rips! A little bouncy though, blame the optical trigger, I suppose.
Last edited on Tuesday, August 8th, 2006 at 2:22 pm PST
   

FDS Tuesday, August 8th, 2006 | 2:28 pm PST
i would prefer it to not be a spool valve becasue i just don't like spool vales (imo) but even if it is i'm getting it :) But probably around december after all the kinks are worked out and i have enough money
   

fishhead Tuesday, August 8th, 2006 | 2:33 pm PST
Look for a release at World Cup would be my best guess. Look for Legacy to be shooting it also.
   

FDS Tuesday, August 8th, 2006 | 2:55 pm PST
yeah they are giving a way special engraved "hybrid timmys" at the cup and and internal ups too. To bad i can't make it because my bro is in the hospital with cancer until december
   

Dyegunsrock Wednesday, August 9th, 2006 | 6:31 am PST
quote:
Originally posted by FDS
yeah they are giving a way special engraved "hybrid timmys" at the cup and and internal ups too. To bad i can't make it because my bro is in the hospital with cancer until december

Sorry about your bro, but where is the cup held?
   

Dyegunsrock Wednesday, August 9th, 2006 | 6:39 am PST
quote:
Originally posted by fishhead
There are several 'Max Flo' regulators:
1) Manifold: this is a tank regulator that you can setup to be your only regulator, SP used to sell these on the Shocker Ultimate with a gas-through grip, no Vertical Max Flo (more on this regulator below). Very fast recharge rate and adjustable. Also, allows you to unscrew your tank for traveling since the regulator replaces your on/off. This is the older style which is sort of 'S' shaped. Excellent but bulky/heavy.
2) Inline: Essentially the same as the Manifold, but the entire thing is lined up. Dynasty used to use this exclusively. It has a tank guage and an output pressure guage. The weight isn't an issue since your are replacing a tank regulator and the on/off.
3) Vertical: This is the stock regulator for Shockers and Nerves. It has a bad rep that I personally have not experienced, though I have never used one in a tournament. Consistency might be an issue, but not recharge; it will keep up with your marker (after break-in) during long strings without noticeable drop-off.
4) Micro: From what I have read and seen, these are preset for either low (450 psi) or high (650-850, not sure which) pressure. This is essentially a regular tank regulator with the exception of 2 things: unscrew-able and no on/off. Not sure on performance. But, if the reg is worth $100, you still have to buy a tank (4500 psi) without the reg or pay for the whole thing and eat the cost of a regulator. I say, stick with Crossfire!

I agree, the Dye/Proto tech support is SUPERB! At a tournament or even via e-mail, they rock. I have never needed to use SP tech support though. After all is said and done, I will probably sell my PM6 before I sell my Shocker, but that might be sentiment, not quality/performance. Shockers feel right. The Shocker I just sold is pictured under the Shocker SFT reviews, picture is dust-black and red, filled with NDZ, CP, & Virtue. My 'keeper' is a much lower rated picture, all black w/ hybrid t-money 15 degree asa, CP, Gucci tank, Hybrid Shelled reloader B and System-x push-button on/off. That marker is the basis for my Shocker SFT review and it ROCKS.


The thing is, im 14 I dont have a steady job Ive got close to $500 and i am considering 3 guns, The SP Neve, The SP Shocker or the PM6. I want the PM6 the most but im not sure if i need it, I figure Ill get either a shocker or a nerve for about $600-$700 and ill sell that one and get a PM6 next year but I really dont know, basically your saying all this good stuff about the PM6 but i dont know if I can afford it, the Pro shop sells all there stuff half price on boxing day but I want to get it sooner, I heard that the nerves come with cheater boards so I checked around to find out and no they dont and Im still waiting on the Field to let me know if there allowed in the tournaments and thats why I started to look around for other guns and ended up loving the PM6. Never the less I still love the nerve and the Shocker just cheaper than the PM6 and if they field doesnt allow the Nerves(they have a velocity adjuster on the front of the gun so you could crank it up after theyve read what your guns at) then I'll get a shocker but if I get a job(was just in for 6 interviews this week) then ill get the PM6 maybe sooner than boxing day. Also where are you 2 from? Im in Canada right near Toronto
   
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