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Comments on Keither's Review

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Keither Tuesday, July 25th, 2006
The accuracy of this review is disputed. Please see discussion below.
Period of
Product Use:
Only tested43 of 335 people found this review helpful.

Paintball
Experience:
More than 5 years
Similar
Products Used:
None... all i own are barrels that give other players a chance....
Marker Setup: A5 with Adapter and with an OPSGEAR 18" Fluted Sniper Barrel and a Flatline with a coiled remote, and a folding aluminium combat stock / M16 solid stock

(also bought the 18" air cooled machine gun shroud with it... also looks bad to the bone.)
Recommended
Paintballs:
none... this thing shouldnt banned from the sport
Strengths: Helps players that would otherwise suck actually get kills
Weaknesses: Knocks out the poor shlepps that are playing fair
Review: I used a friends APEX for some $hits and giggles when we were playing woodsball..... Ive never been more turned off to something in my life... with a little practice it was able to nail people that you normally wouldnt be able to get with a flatline or regular straight barrel.... this thing is retarded...

Not only have i been playing paintball since 1994, but Im also a gun owner... and the last time I checked my M1911A1 didnt shoot .45 rounds like curve balls... neither did my 8MM M48 Mauser.

A normal barrel has a downward arc... but thats because of gravity.. this barrel is made to go around corners and such on purpose... its cheating for godsake!!!

What ever happened to "hey theres a guy behind that bunker... you get his left flank ill get his right and you, harry... go up behind em." You know.. a certain thing that paintball was originally based around... something called TACTICS!!!!!

In history there have been a few attempts to make a bullet go around a corner straight from the gun by putting an angled attachment on the barrel.. but nothing like this.. this takes the cake as far as being unrealistic goes..

Now, dont get me wrong, Im not trying to offend anyone... but if I am its because you know what im saying is true...

this product is about as much of a cheap shot to paintball as the electronic marker was... theres no need for a gun that fires 20 rounds a second... not even an M60 can fire that fast... hell even those stupid little UZIs can pull that one off...

I hate to say it guys but anyone that has any talent in the game of paintball shouldnt need barrels that shoot around corners and guns that sound like bumble bees when they fire... if you actually have any skill whatsoever... you should be able to take a pump gun onto a field of NORMAL mechanical semis and still kick some A$$,,, not try to compensate for the fact that you suck by going out and spending thousands on some high tech gun that fires a million rounds a second or a barrel that shoots around corners... its called practice... vasily zaitsev didnt have a gun that sounded like a bee's wings when fired... he had a bolt action mosin nagant rifle and a scope... and if you know anything about snipers you know that you cant just look thru a scope and hit something ur aiming at... theres a lot more to it... and if he didnt land that one shot he was probably dead in his tracks...

the phrase one shot one kill is just that... not one pound of paint one kill... if you have any talent or skill whatsoever you shouldnt need all these fancy gadgets to make u look good....

what looks better?

a 5 guys walking off a field shaking their heads with no splatter on any of them and one shot in the center of each of their chests?
or
one guy walking off the field covered from head to toe in enough paint to coat a house?

do the math

AND NO!!
to all of you morons thinking im a sore loser thats probably been tagged 1000 times by one of these things, you're wrong... ive never actually been hit by a ball coming from one.. however... my entire team was nearly wiped out by 4 players using them... we had 2 guys on our team that were using them til they saw that and then switched back to their stock barrels just to prove a point. we still kicked their A$$es
.
Originally constant air systems were banned from field play because the "founding fathers" of the national paintball association or whatever the hell its called now a'days didnt want the sport to revolve around the gun... they wanted it to remain based on tactics.. not high tech gizmos... they would have cows if they saw this

You know, if you're gonna nail someone do it with dignity by flanking them or something tactical... not by camping in one spot with some cheap shot barrel
Conclusion: products like the APEX are ruining the sport... theyre every bit as bad as the player that wipes a direct hit off of his clothing and continues playing... what do the two have in common? cheating and poor sportsmanship!!!

Im giving this product a 1 because there are no options for negative numbers
Rating:
1 out of 10Last edited on Tuesday, July 25th, 2006 at 2:40 am PST
 

Review Comments
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glenstorm50 Sunday, November 5th, 2006 | 5:04 pm PST
for those who think that this barrel is cheating, do you think so still if it is used strictly as a flatline. because if it is used so, it is more effective and cheaper, plus better looking for a 98 than a flatline is. i ask because i want to keep the game as fair as possible, but am tired of getting a clear shot on someone that any normal rifle could hit but not being able to hit it because my shots either fall short or curve everywhere. according to most of the reviews, this barrel is more accurate and cheaper than the flatline that the person who posted the original message uses.
   

bvdave Saturday, November 18th, 2006 | 1:10 pm PST
i Agree that it is cheep, as is the flatline. it takes skill out of the game and gives an advantage to those who own it that other players cannot catch up to. when i play vs someone with a flatline i need to walk through 100 ft of fire before i can take a shot, fair? No. its not, whoever has the barrel will have a very unfair advanatge

at the same time you cant give a product a 1 because it does what its supposed to do., it may be the equivilant of a trainer in a video game and be the cheepest thing in paintball.. buit if the product does what its supposed to do and you agree you cant really give it a zero....
   

Jon Wayne Saturday, November 18th, 2006 | 8:37 pm PST
No affense or nothin but I myself have never used this thing, but to me this guy just souds like he got shot one too many times by the thing.... but on the other hand I may or may not feel the same way if I got pwned by the apex................I've heard you have to be good in order to get a good hang of the adjustments but if you can do that then heck, you've earned the right to kill!!!
   

karnage 06 Tuesday, November 21st, 2006 | 4:29 pm PST
Its agreed, Being taken out by the apex barrel would feel fairly cheap. But the big argument here, all depends on your definition of paintball. For those who argue strictly that its a game resembling war and tactics, your contradicting yourself. All those who say this is unrealistic, are totally contradicting yourselves. To the extent of my knowledge, There are no curving bullets. But there are many advantages that one team may have. such as grenades. War has always been about one-upping your opponents. This is why we created the nuclear missle. This is how planes came into WWI. Same as tanks. this is why they used swords over clubs, guns over swords, bombs over guns. Its always been an arms race. Those who are so against the spray and pray method are wrong too. Often its not just Spraying and hoping to hit someone, theres even strategy to that. Ussually its called suppressive fire, as someone mentioned. This is partially why machine guns are used over bolt actions. (electros vs pumps). Now, thats not all to war. There are alot of skills and tactics required. all the tech in the world means nothing if you dont have good tactics. But war, aswell as paintball, is a relationship between both. If you want a pump only game, thats fine, thats a different game. its a game, where everyone has a fair advantage, (as far as tech goes). But its not "realistic", so dont use that excuse. The apex isn't unrealistic. It may not be fair. war isnt fair. life isnt fair. Boohoo.
IN sumary, The apex isn't fair. But neither is it unrealistic. If its not your style of game, then dont flame it. just dont play that style of game. If u want a realist game of paintball, its not going to happen, for obvious reasons. But if your playing towards that, then theres nothing wrong with the apex.

Ps.... Having more range gives you an unfair advantage aswell. (why is this so undisputed?)
   

eric mac Saturday, December 2nd, 2006 | 8:31 am PST
just incase you didnt know the milatry has a new weapon that is not erfect yet but will be used in the future that actually breaks inhalf (but is still attached) and has a camera so you can look around corners and shoot without actually stepping past your cover. if your so awesome with your real guns why dont you research something before you bash a "less realistic" counterpart
   

tehspillah Sunday, December 10th, 2006 | 4:37 pm PST
Sounds like this whole review is just trying to brag about the fact that you have real guns. ZOMG! REAL GUNS! WOW! IT'S JUST SO AMAZING THAT THERE ARE SUCH THINGS AS REAL GUNS!
Last edited on Sunday, December 10th, 2006 at 4:38 pm PST
   

stinkabutt Tuesday, December 26th, 2006 | 4:37 pm PST
GREAT review Keither,, i also agree that the apex barrel is cheating and a total disgrace to paintball. i dont get why everyone is so hard on him ..this site is made for stating your opinion and thats what he did.
   

woodsballnoob Saturday, December 30th, 2006 | 4:46 pm PST
I agree that the curve feature is cheating but if you are so good as you say why could u not in theroy still kick. Im a noob as the my name says i played once so far and i plan on playing for years to come. Also anyone who says that the flatline or the flatline feature of the apex is cheating is not very smart or to put it plainly stupid i may be a noob at paintball but i know a lot about military history and the range of a gun has been inproved and honed over the years the first great thing was the rifling of the barrel this totally change the way warfare was played out also little tidbit the paris gun used by the germans in ww2 could shoot a 100 lb. round 12 miles given it was never used very effectively but that was 1943. also technolgy is what keeps u alive in some cases kevlar keeps cops alive the sattlite tech that keeps units conected in war brings down friendly fire. In conclusion the apex if used to go over bunkers and shoot around walls it is cheating in paintball but in world war I the germans use guns with curved barells to keep the allys from jumping on their tanks and blowing them up and the guns were effective. o and for anyone who might be stupid about all the german refrences i was trying to make a point they were ba$tards for killing all those people but they had some of the most advanced tech of the time and if it wasnt for us americans the world would be a different place. on a final note i plan on geting an apex because who cares its paintball a sport not war dont take it so seriously. thank you and goodnight lol
Last edited on Saturday, December 30th, 2006 at 4:48 pm PST
   

Ace-o-Spades Tuesday, January 9th, 2007 | 4:16 pm PST
Oh boy. This is the big one. The ULTIMATE debate in paintball is right here. Which is, of course, whether or not paintball curving is cheating. And to tell you the truth, i gotta go with all the people that say that it's not.

(quote by Keither)
"Not only have i been playing paintball since 1994, but Im also a gun owner... and the last time I checked my M1911A1 didnt shoot .45 rounds like curve balls... neither did my 8MM M48 Mauser.

A normal barrel has a downward arc... but thats because of gravity.. this barrel is made to go around corners and such on purpose... its cheating for godsake!!!

What ever happened to "hey theres a guy behind that bunker... you get his left flank ill get his right and you, harry... go up behind em." You know.. a certain thing that paintball was originally based around... something called TACTICS!!!!!"

If you want to compare paintball to real war, or real guns, for that matter, Keither, you've got no place in paintball. War wasn't fair then, it's not now, and it probably won't be ever. About the flanking thing, if in war someone wanted to take someone else (who is behind a bunker) out, they would just toss a grenade or something to that effect in there. Cheating? I don't think so. A big advantage? Yes.
There will be people with advantages in any sport. Like for instance, suppose you were to play woodsball with a group of people. Everyone but one guy had all orange on. The other guy had a ghillie suit. It would be everyone against him. He clearly has a huge advantage over you guys, so you would need to try a new tactic to flush him out. Certainly you couldn't hide, so a good idea would be to try to get him to shoot first and have everyone stick together so that you would find him easily and take him out. So in short, the BT Apex increases the amount of skill and tactics you need in order to be successful.
If you think that the Apex is unfair, well boo-hoo for you, because you will have to find out another way to get to the Apex shooter. Like keep on moving so that he can't dial in the exact curve in time because you will be constantly moving.
BT Designs were creative in their product, so be creative yourself. Find out your opponent's weak point, and take advantage of it. Paintball is all about taking advantages, and if you can't deal with that, you don't deserve to be a part of this fine sport.
Last edited on Tuesday, January 9th, 2007 at 4:24 pm PST
   

GOAT0258 Friday, February 2nd, 2007 | 11:45 am PST
Honestly, if paintball was a sport that should be centered around skill only and not bad a$$ technology, then there wouldn't be so many choices. Face it, it isn't just about skill. It is about technology too, and those of you that don't like that have probably just been burned too many times by someone who has a fancy upgrade on his gun. Plus, the Apex doesn't magically make someone a better shot, you have to hone your skill just as you would with any gun or barrel or mod. You can't just twist the barrel and suddenly be able to shoot someone you can't see. It takes something to make this barrel work... what is the word??? Oh yeah... SKILL!!! Quit whining and learn to deal with it... you want it to just e about skill.... then start your own field where everyone has to use the EXACT same setup. Then you will have it your way. Until everyone has the same gun set up the same way... then your theory that it should just be about skill carries no weight.
   

Evil_Wayz Tuesday, February 20th, 2007 | 9:53 am PST
Are you kidding me? The M16A2 has a superior range compared to the Ak-47. That's called superior firepower, not cheating.

IF you want to be a paintball purist, then by all means show up and rent the same marker that everyone else has. But don't knock a product that does exactly what is says it will just because you believe in some sort of weird equality on the field. Even with all the high tech gadgetry, marksmanship is the key. A poor shot is a poor shot regardless of what gun it comes from.

And I did eight years in the Marines, not on a paintball field.

-Wolf
Last edited on Tuesday, February 20th, 2007 at 9:57 am PST
   

irsd123 Sunday, February 25th, 2007 | 5:07 pm PST
I agree with ALMOST everything you said, however, i don't agree with your views on electronic markers. speedball is not called speedball just because the fields are small and the games are short.
   

phomat Wednesday, March 21st, 2007 | 5:50 pm PST
What I use is fair. What my opponent uses is not. Me good, you bad. Makes perfect sense to me.

   

Mr.T.Baggins Thursday, March 22nd, 2007 | 2:47 am PST
Man your a friggin joke you use a flatline man... they shoot farther then everyone else to begin with and your complainin when people unfair too you. Boohoo man seems like you got a taste. I personally dont think it matters really as far as realism goes you think the troops are dropping theyre m4s and picking up aks to make it even? I think w/e advantage you wanna try and give yourself great go for it. I've seen nubs shooting their angels their daddys bought them get pwned by good players witha brass eagle. I've used an apex too I dont anymore because even though u gain range its significantly less accurate then a regular barrel closer range so its sort of a trade off and have you ever tried to curve one its like impossible to actually line it up and shoot some1 that way. Alls fair man if you dont like dont buy it if you wanna make youself even get one. Cmon man get off you com , stop bashing products you dont like cuz theyre "cheap" and get a life
   

sabre boy Wednesday, March 28th, 2007 | 11:13 am PST
GOOD GOD!

you are a fool, as many of these very intelligent players have managed to point out; if you are against someone with a major advantage to you, find a weak point!

and never try to make a comparison to one of world war 2's great heroes like Vassili Zaitsev when you cant even spell his name right (vasily zaitsev), you fool!

the APEX is an absolutely awesome barrel and just because you believe yourself to be too good for it,

"Not only have i been playing paintball since 1994, but Im also a gun owner... and the last time I checked my M1911A1 didn't shoot .45 rounds like curve balls... neither did my 8MM M48 Mauser." .....what the FU-CK is that all about? are you trying to show off? over compensating for something are you?

you are a god damn loser!
   

Emorrison84 Saturday, April 28th, 2007 | 11:01 pm PST
this review said absolutley nothing about the barrel...what a waste
   

the_ion Wednesday, May 23rd, 2007 | 3:13 pm PST
so you say that your real guns dont shoot curve balls? well of course the dont but you definetly dont have to hol your M1911A1 or 8MM M48 Mauser at a 45 degree angle to just shoot it

all im saying is that a flat trajectory just makes the game more realistic and thats what i go for when i play scenario paintball
   

White Fire Monday, May 28th, 2007 | 3:44 pm PST
paintball technology is going to get more advanced. face it.

lets look at a bit of history. people are saying that markers that can shoot 20bps are cheating. well I'm pretty sure that no one ever whined and said that the machine gun was cheating. they just learned to take cover when it was firing. the flatline and apex barrels aren't cheating they're just an advance in technology. its just something you have to deal with. if you don't like people being able to out range you, buy your own apex or flatline. paintballing will never be "fair" unless you forced everyone to use exactly the same equipment and that, that would take away all the fun.
as for the apex taking away strategy, it does nothing like that. Ok I'm not all for shooting round corners, if I get an apex it would be for flatline purposes only, but I'd love to see someone try and dial in a curved shot under a hail of surpressing fire with flankers to his side. its just not going to happen.

You just have to adapt your strategy. in the end no ones gonna win a game purely cause they have an apex, it doesn't shield you from paint and it doesn't make you a paintball god, it just makes you shoot further or round a corner. pitch a bunch of complete strangers with apex's against a good team and the team will wipe them out. give the team apex's and they'll decimate them. no matter what technological advantages you have teamwork and tactics will always beat them. but by being ignorant of technology just because you value teamwork is just that, ignorant.
   

waruigaijin Sunday, July 8th, 2007 | 12:49 am PST
REal shoot more rounds per second that paintball guns lol! THAT IS REALLY REALLY SILLY MAN lol .google the uzi, ,mp5, and the slow shooting ak-47, hell M-16. ar 15,,, uhmm just about every machine gun used by every side in ww2 is gona blow your mind duder lol And attack low pressure guns that dont chop paint and shoot great is silly..... Do you think if you were in a real war you wouldnt use every advantage you could? Alot of old school people need to buy a new gun and help reward the companies that make good guns that wont be found in walmart next to the tippmans....... and yeah some times you get hit 3 or 4 times by the new guns, its ok it just means the gun was accurate. I bought my first paintball gun over ten years ago, Im happy the guns are crazy now. I could sit here and talk about the good old days.. but paintball is better now than ever. if you like one shot one kill get a apex/flatline, or any milsim gun with a rifled barrel that isnt threaded.. And i dont think you will get any pros out with one shot, and anyone that think they would own a field by adding a apex is kidding themself.
   

Brianofontario Friday, July 20th, 2007 | 6:59 pm PST
quote:
Originally posted by a hobo


I agree with Ronin. SO far you just told us how the barrel is bad because it improves your performance, and that is the purpose of upgrades. Stop complaining, considering the only reason you hate it is probably because you were shot by someone with it, along with your friends.And by getting angry because the age of paintball is changing, you might as well complain to Dye or WDP that your tippmanns are too slow to keep up with and angel/matrix. You might as well complain to Dye because the boomstick makes the gun to accurate. GROW UP YOU DUMBA$$. By the way, unless it blew up in your face somehow, it really doesn't deserve a 1 you Red-Neck HICK!


I totally agree with you
   
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