Tippmann 98 Custom WITHOUT ACT
21in sniper barrel
M-16 foregrip with AK-74 front sight
Red Dot sight
any medium grade
Flat shots a close to mid range
Instil fear in the uneducated
Slows shots down (beyond mid-range)
I picked one of these up just to test it out.
After less than 200 balls I had already had a ball break (premium paint). With my 21in sniper I have had zero breaks in the last 3000 balls. The barrel HAD to be cleaned IMMEDIATLY, you couldn't hit anything beyond 40 feet after the break.
After cleaning I got it tuned and began full out testing, target shooting, shooting at PEOPLE, at clost range and at distances beyond normal (flatline SHOULD get more distance right?)
Target shooting showed that low grade paint is USLESS!!! I couldn't hit a SHED at 50 feet!!!!!, 4 out of 5 balls shot of in usless directions, only 1 ball even HIT the shed and IT was no where near the target. The GOOD part was that with leathery Brass Eagle Monster Balls their tough skin and small size DID keep them from breaking, couldn't HIT anything with them, but I didn't have to clean the barrel after 100 shots.
Move to premium paint. Not too bad on the aim, but 1 or 2 out of every 5 balls STILL shot off in some wild direction,10 feet, up, left or right, nobody knew where they were going. At CLOSE range, where I would aim straight on with my 21in , heck, under 50 feet I would aim straight on with the 81/2in STOCK barrel and HIT EVERY SHOT, well the flatline was fairly acurate, except for the wild balls. At mid range everything went down hill, more balls off target. Those that DID go straight were VERY straight (nice if you want to shoot through a culvert or tube) but acuracy suffered and I could hit more reliably with ANY other barrel, even the 81/2 in stock one. At long range (this is what the flatline is FOR right?) it was so inacurate that the people being shot at had to actualy move to get in front of the ball, even 2 people standing side by side were too small a target.
Hindreds of rounds were shot at human targets (including ME) and NONE hit the person! By the time they got downrange(150 feet NO obstructions!) they wre moving so slowly that you could just step out of the way, 1 ball or 30, it didn't matter. They were going so slowly I actuall cought several out of the air, I could throw a paintball harder! (280fps out of the muzzel, floating like a butterfly at 150ft) I even jumped in front of several and thost that I MADE hit me DIDN'T BREAK!!!!! What good is a LONG ball if they have no energy? If they don't BREAK you might as well have dumped them on the ground and stomped on them!
With the Flatline you had to move to GET hit, now a switch to the 21in sniper had people jumping OUT OF THE WAY at 150 ft from the first shot, they were MORE acurate AND were moving TWICE as fast, they actualy HURT when they hit you! Not to mention the fact that the flatline is LOUD, almost as loud as the 81/2in stock one!!!!! Almost ANY aftermarket barrel is quieter! You have to take your gun apart to put on the shroud ANd it covers your sight rails AND it only has ONE (dovetail) not the double like the 98 has without the shroud!
If it was under $50 AND you could swap it out without taking your gun apart, well maybe I'd get one to put in my pack for that "odd" shot.
BUT as it is, I would NEVER use one on MY gun.
I would NOT recomment a flatline barrle for any but SPECIFFIC applications.
The Flatline RUINS your acuracy at anything over 50ft no matter what paint you use, it breaks balls, it slows them down making them easy to dodge at over 50-75ft, it is LOUD, and it is expensive. A good sniper barrel will shoot harder at long range and will hit more often! Add that to the fact that you must take your gun apart to put the shroud on (no swapping barrels) AND the shroud covers your sight rails, is it a DEFFINATE NO for MY gun.
Now it DOES have it's uses, is scares noobs when you say you have a flatline (any GOOD player will be HAPPY to hear you are using one AGAINST them). It is GREAT on a grinder set in the bunker to keep the other team's heads down at a longer distance. (So the players WITHOUT one can sneak up and SHOOT them) And yesm in the RARE occasion that you have a close shot that must shoot under an overhang, it MAY help, if the ball doesn't fly wild giving away your position!
I have a 16in progressive but prefer my 21 for sniper duty. The 21 is slightly more accurate over a greater range of paint quality at the longest distances (over 175ft). I know that the 21 gives no additional range, but it gives a better acuracy with mixed quality paint. It is also a LOT LOT LOT quieter!!!!! The 21 makes half the forward sound of my 16in barrel and makes the flatline sound like a canon!!! (the flatline is almost as loud as that fool 8 1/2in stock barrel!) I have had people 150ft away get hit by my shot and they had NO IDEA where my shot came from!!!! The 21in is almost silent from the muzzel end, with the only real sound coming from the bolt opening of the gun instead of the muzzel. It is almost like misdirection! People searching for me consistently look 10-15 yards to my left after I shoot! (EASY targets!)
I am sorry you feel that way DeathRecon, but the facts are the facts. The sytem was installed AND TUNED perfectly. The barrel WAS straight. Incorrect tuning would cause a CONSISTANT curve to ONE side.
NO ammount of "installation" will make the system any quieter!!! It sounds like a cannon compated to a well ported normal barrel.
At CLOSE range the barrel worked very well, but then again so did the 81/2in stock barrel! I DO ADMIT that at under 75ft it is a LOT more accurate than the stock barrel, but NO MORE accurate than ANY good straight barrel and THEY don't have as many "wild" balls, they don't get EXTREMELY wild (translates USLESS USLESS USLESS) if you break a ball in the barrel AND they cost less than HALF as much. At any real distance it is just a paint cloud flinger that MAY keep some one's head down, just in case one ACCIDENTLY hits something hard like their mask or marker. And it WOULD be an accident or them just not paying enough attention to move their head out of the way of the slow floating balls.
Now while it scares the wits out of noobs and people that have never had one shot AT them before, I am HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY to see a flatline on my opponents markers!!! I have simply stood up and walked through a cloud of paintballs from one shooting at me from about 175-200ft away, simply making sure not to walk into one by accident, until I was sure of MY shot where I simply fired THREE rounds and he was out. He fired over 150 rounds, TWO hit me and just bounced off. ( I SAW them comming but I could see they would hit my chest where they would NOT break so I didn't even bother to dodge them) I fired THREE rounds, one of them hit AND broke on his arm!!!!
As to your physics from the "18 year old", they are incorrect. Check them yourself. Those facts are only correct IF AND ONLY IF the object in question is "wheel shaped" and well ballenced (this is WHY they ballence your tires when you have new ones put on! knock those weights off and see how it feels to drive down the road! See how well they "resist yaw".) ANY inconsistencancy will throw off the "physics". This is why flywheels, tires, frisbees, etc are FLAT and most often have the weight on the outer edge. That "physics" does NOT apply to an IMPERFECT, center weighted, LIQUID FILLED, sphere! Check with ANY black powder shooter that still uses a round ball and they will tell you the same thing, ANY spin on a sphere RUINS the ballistics due to the fact that ANY imperfection causes the spin to throw off the accuracy!!! This is WHY bullets are no longer ROUND any more!!!! SPIN ruins your accuracy with them at distance, period. To gain ACCURACY at a distance with spin the projectile can NOT be a sphere!
ANY imperfection in the shape of the paintball (ANY dent, crease or seam, ANY "out of round" shape to the ball from storage), ANY inconsistancy in the fluid paint, ANY air bubble in the paint, ANY obstruction in the barrel (broken ball) or change in the roughness of the inside of the barrel (oil from the outside of the paintballs, your fingers or the internals of your gun), ANY wind during play WILL cause balls to fly in any direction they please, left, right, heck even 20-30 FEET UP OVER YOUR TARGET or even straight down into the ground!!!
The barrel HAS it's uses, but the hype of increased ACCURACY at a distance is simply incorect not even mentioning the slow speed of the balls at over 150 feet.
If you could EASILY swap out the barrel it would be great to have in your pack for IF you needed to make that 50-75ft FLAT shot at someone bunkered down or IF you want to throw a cloud of paint down 200ft to keep your enemy pinned down until a real shooter can back you up or as cover fire so the real shooters can move into position!
If you have a TEAM, having ONE person with one of these playing back with a grinder to throw clouds of paint would be great.
ACCURATE at distance? NO. PHYSICS and HUNDREDS of years of ballistics and hunter experience have shown that spin on an imperfect, center weighted, liquid filled sphere will ruin consistant accuracy, period.
Last edited on Monday, August 6th, 2007 at 8:43 pm PST
Well, you may have a defected unit; mine works perfectly. I have yet to chop any paint. I can honest to God accurately shoot about 50 yard or so with my flatline, and can surgically shoot targets within 20 yards. The evidence you are presenting me with are inconsistant with the evidence I have seen with my own system.
(Side note, the threaded adapter that screws into the barrel receiver--or at least on my Tippmann; but aren't they all basically the same, what with "cookie-cutter" presses and whatnot-- doesn't like to be screwed all the way into proper postion. Torque tools are needed to bring it all the way back into PROPER position. This could very easily be a common problem that other people using Flatline systems have not diagnosed.)
"ACCURATE at distance? NO. PHYSICS and HUNDREDS of years of ballistics and hunter experience have shown that spin on an imperfect, center weighted, liquid filled sphere will ruin consistant accuracy, period."
--Sure, if the liquid in the projectiles sloshed around. If you have decent paint, then there shouldn't be any air-bubbles in the paint. This WILL in fact screw up the trajectory of the paintball, HOWEVER, I have yet to see such a paintball. Doesn't mean they don't exist though. Causes for affected trajectory: oblong shell, air pockets in liquid fill, dents or dimples in shell, unbalanced halves.
I have a simple solution for this though: DONT USE DISCOUNT PAINT. Marblizers are recommended for use in Flatline barrels (this MAY be a marketing strategy, however. The thought did cross my mind.) The more expensive "premium" paint is more expensive for a reason: better standards, better quality control.
As for foreign objects in the barrel ("obstruction in the barrel (broken ball) or change in the roughness of the inside of the barrel (oil from the outside of the paintballs, your fingers or the internals of your gun"), that's why we have squeegies.
Lets just agree to disagree then. But my Flatline's performance begs to differ. As for my physics, they are not completely incorrect as you say. Nor are you physics digressions any more accurate than mine.
Yes, agree to disagree is a valid point this time! I am HONESTLY happy that it works well for you.
If your flatline works well for you, with the paint you use and in the conditions you generally play in then great for you! I HONESTLY WISH that it worked as well for me and for everyone! More power to you!
Perhaps it is inconsistancy in the manufacture process causing the greatly variable results in flatline reviews, people either seem to love it or hate it.
I would personally suggest that EVERYONE that is interested in a flatline find a way to TRY ONE BEFORE they buy it. While YOURS works perfectly for YOU they are NOT for everyone or for every setup and often they are WORSE than the stock 8 1/2 in that comes on a basic 98.
Personally I have no use for it and would not use one even if it was DEAD accurate at 200ft. At that range the balls are just going so slow even the best paint won't seem to break unless you get a mask or marker hit. And EVERY ball I have had shot at ME at that range from a flatlilne was going so slow that if one DID hit my marker or mask it would have been MY fault for not simply WLAKING or leaning out of the way (IF I didn't just decide to catch the ball out of the air as I have done MANY times from a flatline shot at over 175ft) The backspin actually SLOWS the ball down, test this one yourself!!!! Have a friend take your gun and shoot at you in an open field where you can see the balls coming well from about 175 -200ft away. Just stand there and see if they can hit you and see how easy it is to walk out of the way of the balls, watch how show they fly, try to catch one (You WILL be able to do it with ease WITHOUT breaking the ball) Then have them switch to a marker with a standard barrel chronoed at the EXACT same speed out of the barrel. You WILL see the difference FAST, even shooting the standard barrel at 175 -200 ft. I KNOW an open field is not really where you would normally shoot at someone, but this experiment is so you can easily SEE the difference, so you can SEE how much easier it is to not only see the flatline balls comming, but to move out of the way. So you can EASILY see the difference in speed at over 150ft.
Just try it sometime, it's a fun experiment and realy man, be HONEST with yourself! When I did it the first time I REALY REALY REALY wanted it to work out well for me, I wanted that flatline to be the best thing I had ever seen I wanted that extra distance like no one's business to make a screaming sniper marker. It just didn't work out that way and I was HONEST with myself about it. Honest enough to see the truth and to tell others about MY PERSONAL experience with that speciffic flatline barrel.
And oh yes, 50 yards is still only 150ft and my standard barrel is accurate AND effective at that range. The balls are still effective and have enough speed to break almost every time, not so the flatline I used. At 20 yards (that's 60 feet?!?!?) heck I can shoot a soda can over and over again with the stock 8 1/2in barrel at 60 feet! 8 hits out of 10 with the cheapest "monster balls" you can buy! Also sometimes you just can not USE Marblizers if you are required to use field paint and if your barrel requires a speciffic paint to be truly effective what will you do when you must use sub standard paint? As to squeegies, while you squeegie your barrel so your balls are not flying wild all over the place I'll happily move up and shoot you.
The negatives and inconsistancies shown by some of these barrels along with speciffic paint and conditions required to realy make this thing work are not worth the price for a barrel that loud.
For everyone interested in one, REALY THINK about HOW you play to see if it would even benifit you enough to offset the paint REQIREMENTS, the slowdown in ball speed and increase in sound in the first place and then LOOK HARD to find some pro shop that will let you try one out on YOUR MARKER BEFORE you cough up that $100. If it works the way you like, BUY THAT SPECIFFIC barrel, even if it is used!!!!!
It seems that not all flatline barrels are maid the equal and results may varry!!!!!!!!! For those that have one that works well for them it seems to be the best thing they have purchased, shooting more accuratly and farther than they could hope for.
For others it is a usless piece of junk that only serves to cover up their GREAT double sight rails on a 98 with a PLASTIC "dovetail only" one and makes their marker so loud it rivals a real firearm.