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Comments on born2dive's Review

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born2dive Tuesday, June 24th, 2008
The accuracy of this review is disputed. Please see discussion below.
Period of
Product Use:
3 months13 of 66 people found this review helpful.

Paintball
Experience:
More than 5 years
Similar
Products Used:
I have this marker for about 8 weeks now.
Invert Mini is the closest match that I used.
My other markers:
EGO SL74
Etek
A5 (lots of them)
ICD
Marker Setup: Empire Magna
68ci 4500psi
Freak Barrel
Strengths: Light
Somewhat affordable
Weaknesses: Bolt design
HPR
Electronic Board
Grip
Review: I gave this marker a try after reading all the positive reviews.
Well, it is quite a disappointment.

Bolt O-ring:
I had to replace the front O-ring of the bolt already 4 times. Only 2 replacements came with the gun. The size of this one is a dash 15 just in case someone has the same problem. The pseudo user guide says it in metric (14x1.78)
The O-ring gets pinch at the feed neck and get chopped off. This occurs roughly every 1000 shots.
Luckily the bolt is easy to remove and the replacement is swift. However you will not go through a game with this marker.

HP Regulator:
The shots are totally inconsistent. This must be coming from the reg which is horrible.
It takes a lot of tinkering with a 1/4 inch allen wrench to get any kind of mandatory speed.
A 1/2 of a turn makes your velocity jumping from 350fps to 200. Then once you think you have it expect +/- 30fps in your testing.
So if you are aiming for 280 you better tune for 250. No need to say that the range of your shots will be somewhat random.

Dip switches:
Taking the grip apart to change settings isnít very user friendly. I guess it keeps the electronic cheap, simple and reliable. Definitely low tech

Grip:
I donít like the exposed metal part in the palm of my hand. They should wrap around.
the rubber is very hard and get slippery when wet.

Trigger guard:
Some sharp edges. My finger got cut once. I had to sand off some the edges. Of course the anodizing went off with it. But at least I am not getting cut.

ASA:
This is a very well design part. Very quick to take the tank on and off or depressurize the marker.
However the ASA came loose after the first hour of play. I had to remove the gripper and bend off a little capacitor in order to tighten the screws.



Made in USA?

I don't think so. There were no marking on the gun that specified the origin.

This was a actually a key selling point for my purchase. In the end this marker is like any other poor quality gun made in China in my book. Most likely that is where it's being manufactured.


Hey I am just honestly reporting my findings about this marker. It's not easy to swallow a 400$ pill that goes sideways.
For all of you that really did purchase this marker and are happy with it, great. I'll meet you on the field but I will be shooting my eclipses.

Conclusion: Obviously I could not recommend anyone to buy this marker. (Unless they are playing for the oposite team)
I am giving it a 1 since it is a non functioning marker.
You cannot get it to shoot to the appropriate velocity and then in the middle of the action you have to take it apart to swap an O-ring. Lovely.
Rating:
1 out of 10Last edited on Thursday, July 3rd, 2008 at 1:24 pm PST
 

Review Comments
                            
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Dynasty!!! Wednesday, July 2nd, 2008 | 11:32 am PST
Dispute:
G3's are the bomb.
   

csmith1199 Wednesday, July 2nd, 2008 | 3:57 pm PST
Dispute:
Dont know about Dynasty!!!!'s biased comment, but as per the actual review, this totally sounds like user error. I've never even held a G3 before, but judging from some of the comments (shaving off edges, bending electronics to adjust screws), this seems like there may have been an issue out of the box, but has been made worse by garage airsmithing. I'm more than positive that your consistency (reg) and o-ring breaking problems are connected, and rather than trying to fix it on your own (which obviously isnt working), call or take it to somebody who knows how to work on them, and they can give you some pointers. If you cant get the reg to be more consistent than +/- 30 fps, and its blowing the front bolt o-ring, there is something wrong, and rather than just trying to crank adjustment screws around until you think it works, stop playing with it (making it worse) and actually figure out what's wrong.
   

born2dive Thursday, July 3rd, 2008 | 1:05 pm PST
Thanks csmith for your 2 cents.
Well I have taken all my marker aparts numerous time, not for fun but for regular maintenance. I am a mechanical engineer so I think that I should be able to handle this G3 issue fairly well.
I agree the problems are connected. Actually it says somewhere in the G3 poster (there are no user manual per say) that overpressure will blow an O'ring. Not the one that I have problem with though.
This G3 design is extremely simple, there is not much that can go wrong.
The reg is most likely the culprit. No a surprise that DP is selling an inline gauge to verify what kind of pressure you get in the gun since there is very little tolerances on the reg itself.
So let's say I have a bad reg, I haven't try to swap it with a good palmer or CP but that was my next step.
But regardless the faulty part this marker is not functionning out of the box, which is not acceptable for a 400$ product.
   

zensins Thursday, July 17th, 2008 | 6:22 am PST
Dispute:
Bolt O-ring:
I have gone through thousands of rounds without replacing the bolt o-ring or any other o-ring. It does NOT need to be replaced every 1000 shots. That's absolute crap. Try lube. It works. Promise. And yes, you WILL go through a game with this marker. 10 games. 100 games if you maintain it properly, without a hitch. I know this for certain because I have.

HP Regulator:
Sounds like you tightened it down past closed and screwed up the reg seat. I, and the rest of the DP world, get around +/-5 consistency out of the box and +/-3 after break in. Call DP and they'll send you a new reg seat, even though this was user error. They're cool like that.

Dip switches:
Get the new board. DP is shipping it at cost ($35) and it's an APE board with improved PSP 3 shot ramping, a lot more adjustability, and no dip switches. But the original stock board worked fine too.

Grip:
Huh? I'm holding my G3 in my hand right now. WHAT exposed metal part on my palm? The grip DOES wrap around. The stock grips are awesome. Do you even own a G3???

Trigger guard:
It CUT you??? I'm sawing on my finger with the "sharpest" angle I can find on it, with about 20 pounds of pressure and, um, yeah.. I'm not bleeding here. I'm typing. Maybe if you're diving into solid wall bunkers...marker first...without gloves...using your marker to break your fall...you could pull off an injury like that. I seriously cannot imagine another way to do it. *suddenly imagines firing a G3 frame from a cannon at someone's hand*

ASA:
No, you cannot depressurize the marker with the RAPS. After you depressurize the ASA/reg with the RAPS you still have to shoot the air out of the bolt area. This is true for all blow-forward spoolers. Not only is this part of your review blatantly and provably incorrect, it's dangerous misinformation that could get someone hurt. Again, this makes me wonder if you own a G3 or you are just going on what you heard and making up the rest.

Let me just come right out and say this: There is NO WAY there is no agenda here. Nothing you wrote gives any indication that you made any attempt to resolve any of your alleged problems though customer service at DP, which is famous for working out any problems their customers have. You'll take a $400 pill sideways without even calling the manufacturer? That just makes no sense. Several things you wrote are so inaccurate that I doubt you even own the marker you claim to be reviewing.

Last edited on Thursday, July 17th, 2008 at 7:25 am PST
   

fallenAngel13 Tuesday, July 29th, 2008 | 10:37 pm PST
BULL

I have seen many reviews on this site if every thing in the review is bad and there are flaws in the review it post BULL i have seen this gun you didnt get cut unless you broke the frame you are an eclipse boy so am i but i am geting an f8 or g3 cause i cant afford more than that.
   

daGeest Friday, August 1st, 2008 | 7:47 am PST
"This was a actually a key selling point for my purchase"

I always take issue with this. I don't care if you are Lang and LaSoya's illigitimate love child, having such a point be a "key" point is flawed in my book. Japan makes some nifty cars and it only took the average American meat head 20 years to figure this out and I have bought mountains and mountains of junk with red-white-n-blue "Made in the USA" tags.

All this displays, in my opinion, is that the reviewer has prejudices and biases. As such, their opinion is FAR less meaningful than someone who is going to look at a product for the product's merits and not the natiaionality or enthnicity of the guy who screwed it together.
   

Boater Friday, August 1st, 2008 | 11:27 am PST
You can't just flame him for writing a bad review. If his is a lemon, then the right thing to do is to write a negative review so that people can see the QA of this company. That's part of reviewing a product, and why having more reviews is better than having one "experienced" reviewer write something about a perfectly tuned gun that was given so that it would net a high rating. As far as biased goes...you could make a job out of being a bias police. Most of these reviews are so ridiculously biased towards their own gun that they give it a 10 because it can 'shoot ropes', or because they just want to be loyal fans when they don't have very much knowledge about guns in general. People have the right to be concerned that someone who has the same gun has had problems with it...but they should be happy that they're getting some sort of warning that these issues exist. Why do people want their gun to have a really high rating anyways? To tell others to buy the gun, so that everyone else will have it? Sorta ruins the uniqueness of owning that particular gun.
   

Kenny13 Friday, September 5th, 2008 | 8:12 pm PST
Dispute:
Hmm... did you notice that the front bolt O-ring did not come installed? Did you wonder why that is? That's because it is unnecesary, so if it keeps breaking, stop putting it on there...dun dun duuun problem solved.

And +/- 30fps!??! You screwed up your reg. Either that or someone came in drunk to Dangerous Power, there's no other explantion.
   

born2dive Saturday, September 6th, 2008 | 5:11 am PST
quote:
Originally posted by Kenny13
Hmm... did you notice that the front bolt O-ring did not come installed? Did you wonder why that is? That's because it is unnecesary, so if it keeps breaking, stop putting it on there...dun dun duuun problem solved.

And +/- 30fps!??! You screwed up your reg. Either that or someone came in drunk to Dangerous Power, there's no other explantion.


That is quite interesting. Because it definitely was installed when I got the marker.
So why will DP remove that O'ring now?
I assume that you recently get this marker and that O'ring was missing.
Also why would they machine a groove and not place the O'ring?
   

themccannman Sunday, September 7th, 2008 | 8:20 pm PST
boater is absolutely correct in every single way possible. you can't just bash him because he may have gotten a lemon, but you can bash him if he didn't bother to call DP and send in his marker for repair. i would like to here his response and if he says that he sent it in to DP and it still doesn't work then that is the biggest load of crap i have ever heard, if the marker isn't working when you send it to them and they can't fix it then they will send you a new onebecause DP has some of the best customer service of any company.
   

born2dive Monday, September 8th, 2008 | 1:44 pm PST
quote:
Originally posted by themccannman
boater is absolutely correct in every single way possible. you can't just bash him because he may have gotten a lemon, but you can bash him if he didn't bother to call DP and send in his marker for repair. i would like to here his response and if he says that he sent it in to DP and it still doesn't work then that is the biggest load of crap i have ever heard, if the marker isn't working when you send it to them and they can't fix it then they will send you a new onebecause DP has some of the best customer service of any company.


Here is my answer since you ask for it:
1) I did fix the marker by replacing the reg with a CP reg and putting top grade polyurethane O'rings on the bolt. Since then I shot about 6000 rounds without problems.
2) You would think that if DP has such a great customer service they would care about what's being said on their products in pbreview. I was waiting for them to contact me after my review, but this never happened.
Of course I will get to them at this point to minimally have them send me a new reg.

I am glad to see that at least one other reviewer reports problem with the reg and the bolts. Because let's face it, the regs on those markers are crap. Take them apart you will see what I mean.

Shot consistency is still +/- 15 in speed. That's just the way it is.
DP is proud of how simple the marker design is. Which is a good thing, fewer parts means increase in reliability, but I think that the lack of LPR is affecting the velocity.
A good setup would by to use an LP tank instead of the HP that I am using and spec out a Palmer, CP or equivalent reg to regulate down from 450 to 150-200.

So if you are looking to get this marker keep that in mind.
I will not invest in the APE board but that would be a very wise purchase as well.
Last edited on Monday, October 6th, 2008 at 6:34 am PST
   

Kenny13 Tuesday, September 9th, 2008 | 1:02 pm PST
quote:
Originally posted by born2dive


That is quite interesting. Because it definitely was installed when I got the marker.
So why will DP remove that O'ring now?
I assume that you recently get this marker and that O'ring was missing.
Also why would they machine a groove and not place the O'ring?


We are talking about the same o-ring correct? The one on the tip of the bolt? I can't remember why it's unnecesary, I've got a magazine with a review stating why somewhere, but I'm gonna have to find it first, I'll get back to you soon.

P.S. I've had this marker for around three months now.
Last edited on Tuesday, September 9th, 2008 at 1:03 pm PST
   

Dub.Yuhhh Sunday, October 5th, 2008 | 9:39 am PST
Well it seems your just reviewing on a personal basis which is what your supposed to do but all manufacturers have that one gun that just messes up and I'm guessing you got it.
Because all the problems you've listed that went wrong has never happened to me or anyone i know who has shot the gun. Either you just got the bad one in the bunch or you've been banging the crap out of the marker. I hate when people review a gun and say its bad because they throw the gun into a f***ing wall and it breaks be gentle treat it like its you! you don't go and f***ing tug on all the parts and see how far they'll go its like wtf you trying to see how much pressure you can put on it until it breaks so i suggest you try the gun again and this time don't f*** the s*** out of it.
Last edited on Sunday, October 5th, 2008 at 9:40 am PST
   

JwdenV Tuesday, October 7th, 2008 | 8:41 pm PST
It sounds like you simply go the lemon, which stinks! however, if i had gotten my G3 with all these problems right off the bat my next move would be to call costumer service and let them take care of it. every company messes up every once and a great while and to keep their good rep (which besides you DP's seems perfect) i am sure they would have helped you out unless you continued messing with the parts and sanding down edges and doing self modifications, etc. anyways, i feel your pain man. getting the lemon sucks... but it seems like this problem could have been easily fixed with a little help from those who built it.
   

Turkish_Turtle Tuesday, October 21st, 2008 | 2:24 pm PST
I've had an F8 and a Threshold and thought they were awesome. I had one issue that was my fault and they fixed it no questions asked. As was already said, you may have gotten a bad one, but to wait for them to contact you is ridiculous. Review the marker however you see it. But don't thrash DP because they didn't contact you. If you have problem with your brand new car, do you post in forum and wait for the manufacturer to call you.
   

Streetfire Saturday, December 6th, 2008 | 12:01 am PST
Dispute:
The owner of this gun didnt know or try to find out why his gun was working this way, if he had he would have found out that he could buy a new reg seat for the gun and fix the consistency issue. and probably fixing the oring issue by having the pressure stable and not off the charts.

Quote "A good setup would by to use an LP tank instead of the HP that I am using and spec out a Palmer, CP or equivalent reg to regulate down from 450 to 150-200."

K dude this marker isnt supposed to go over 200 out of the box. when your putting it up to 450 you should know something is wrong. and me personally i wouldnt buy a 400$ marker and just argue the fact that if they dont call you, then UP theres. its people like you that come into this sport flame it and blame it all on the gear.
Last edited on Saturday, December 6th, 2008 at 12:15 am PST
   

philnos Thursday, December 25th, 2008 | 11:29 pm PST
Dispute:
this gun is amazing a 1/10 is bs
   

clemmy Monday, January 5th, 2009 | 7:59 pm PST
now i dont know anythng about the G3, i have an F8 that im in love with. it had a problem at first but this company has some of the best customer service ive ever seen, ( well more like heard any ways) the manual with the F8 isnt the best but they walked me through the replacing of the asa to the raps system, which was neat. I dont think smart parts or WGP is gonna do that for you.
   

Cypher05 Sunday, January 11th, 2009 | 4:32 pm PST
Agree with Streetfire. Also "A 1/2 of a turn makes your velocity jumping from 350fps to 200", guns are tested in different areas... with different weather conditions. Most guns need adjustments, but gradually not what you think it needs... a change like that will most definitely hurt your gun and require more work than needed.
   

nonoy5 Friday, April 3rd, 2009 | 8:27 am PST
Waiting for DP to contact you without you calling them first shows the lack of knowing how a company works. There is no designated user here from DP that monitors the forums and comes to help out users with their guns.
If you are an engineer you must know something about corporate America. You must know "Customer Service" means , the CUSTOMER calls SERVICE and gets help.
Just from the statements from the reviewer makes me suspect this is pure user error.
Can we hear more from the reviewer and confirm my suspicions ?


I would take this review with a grain of salt.
   
                            
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