The accuracy of this review is disputed. Please see discussion below.
Period of Product Use:
20 of 27 people found this review helpful.
Similar Products Used:
Tippmann 98 Custom - best gun you can find for horsing around in the back yard with your buddies, but simply can not compare to the minimag's compact design and obtainable ROF.
Spyder Xtra - Gun is absolute trash
Spyder Flash - I was very impressed with this gun, incredible ROF, good range and accuracy. Shoots faster than a mag ever will, but the mag is more accurate, more durable, and if the government ever accidently exploded an EMT (electromagnetic) bomb the flash would be fried, but the mag has no electronic pieces and would live to fight another day.
Minimag with Intelliframe (blade style trigger), flame drop forward, kapp gas through (only one that fits with the intelliframe...i wanted it anyway cause they rule), 16" SS Freak Kit (with freak head), 68ci/3000psi Nitro Duct tank, 12v revvy.
If you leave your mag stock you will never obtain its true potential. First, and foremost, get the level 10 bolt! Second, get a new barrel, no shorter than a 12". Third, upgrade the trigger frame. Fourth, get a nitro tank. Finally, no gun should ever be without a motorized hopper whether you fire 1 or 20 balls per second. If you want a reason...watch the poor fools who use rentals...they usually don't fire more than 3-5bps and yet they CONSTANTLY misfeed paint because it gets stuck in the crappy plastic hopper.
I am not one of those people who gives everything a 10 simply because i bought it so that means its the best thing since sliced bread. I will give you facts about the gun, the good and the bad, according to my experience with it.
The good about this gun is the quality of the marker. It is more durable than a tippmann and easier to maintain than any other marker i have come across. Unlike other high-end markers, you will not have to worry about tinkering with your gun because the timing is off or your battery is low, etc. When you take it to play, just oil 1 or 2 orings and you're good for the day.
The reason i bought this gun was for 2 reasons: one was the compact design, two was that i cought word of the level 10 bolt. I play speedball and constantly find myself in tight situations, and this gun was the perfect solution it. Even in woods, i get right up in peoples' faces and get crunched into tight quarters. This gun allowed me to move a lot more freely and get more angles by having a smaller profile to worry about being exposed. As for the level 10 bolt...
The level 10 bolt should be anyone's sole purpose for buying a mag of any kind. This product has its own review catigory so i am not going to get into it any further, however i will say that it is the most incredible piece of equipment paintball has EVER seen.
After upgrading this gun to function and look the way i wanted it to...it is just simply amazing. The looks get all kinds of comments on the field, mostly "THATS A MAG!?" Everything is bright black, with the SS color valve and SS freak front, attached to the bright black freak font...all i need to do is either polish the body or powder coat it black. This is what is good about the mag...there very many upgrade options and routes to take for customizing your gun (granted not as many as a cocker, but cockers are WAY more complicated than any other gun out there).
After getting a new barrel, no shorter than a 12" (recommend 14), the gun shoots straight, accurate and gets much greater distance.
After getting a new trigger frame the trigger pull, though not technically lightened, becomes an easier pull.
Getting an RT (Retro) Vale is what gives you a perfectly smooth and light trigger pull and allows a very high ROF (Rate Of Fire). **Bad is that it costs $200 bucks, and you need to trade your old valve in... or you could be a fool and pay $300 and keep your valve...but why???**
I got this gun for only $290 (plus 50 for the bottom line kit and gas through grip)! It is an amazing price for the basic gun, leaving room in your wallet for the upgrades you want.
Cleaning the gun is as simple as screwing your tank on (making the gun fully pressurized...assuming your tank has air in it) and then dunking it under water and swishing it around to clean off paint.
Disessembly is very easy once you have successfully taken it apart and put it back together once. And do not worry about not being able to do it because AGD gives you a step by step instructional video which shows you how to take your gun apart and reassemble it, and also trouble shoot it incase something goes wrong. You can have the confidence of learning your marker inside and out without fear of leaving something out, or screwing anything up, or having to decipher a manual.
To oil your power tube o-ring (or level 10 carrier o-ring) all you need to do is unscrew ONE screw, slip the valve off, unsrew the powertube tip, take it out, oil it and put it back. It took me longer to write this than it would have to actually do it. The entire gun can be field stripped with 2 tools, 1/8" allen key, and either a nickle (for the level 7 power tube tip) or 3/8" wrench (for the level 10 power tube tip). There are only 2 bolts on the body, 1 that screws into the valve and the other into the body. It is a very simplistic design and still very effective.
Along with the good, this product has plenty of bad. HOWEVER, all the bad CAN be eliminated by upgrading your gun. I can confidently say that if you leave this gun stock, you WILL have problems and a poor paintball experience.
The stock trigger is long and very heavy (i'd say about 10-11 pounds and for that you might as well fire a 44 magnum!). AND, this is NOT easily solved by upgrading to a new trigger frame as most people would think. The reason the trigger pull is so tough is because of the valve, not the frame. When you pull the trigger back you are pulling against the sear pin which is used as a lever to push up on the on/off assembly and simultaneously release the bolt. No matter what frame you have, you still need to exert the exact same amount of force on the sear pin and thus you still have a nasty trigger pull. Of course, by the laws of physics, you can lessen the amount of applied force by increasing the torque. In other words, get a double trigger. Personally i went with the Intelliframe because the pull is slightly shortened and you have the double trigger length with a grooved spot at the end for your finger (plus is looks sexy). It is the best frame you can get for your mag without spending an exuberant amount of money on an electronic hyper frame.
...Also, if you want an increaded ROF and light trigger pull, then get the RT Valve. It is simply amazing how much of a difference it makes. It costs $200 if you trade in your old valve for it...and you would need to get one anyway if you got an electro frame so that the valve could keep up with your ROF. NOW THATS A LOT OF MONEY! If you got the intelliframe and that valve, you would shoot faster than you'd ever need to and have a nice clean, crisp, and light trigger pull.
The distance for mags is terrible. Especially with the stock barrel...i would suggest using it as a paper weight...if it wouldn't roll off your desk. I guess it will just be the most useless thing you own. that barrel has terrible range and horrific accuracy after about 35 feet (anything before that is very accurate), and its loud as hell. The best solution i could come up with for this was a 16" SS Freak Barrel Set...and it made all the difference in the world! Granted i still do not get the distance an autococker does (and never will), i am very accurate. The freak kit was the best $224 dollars i ever spent.
The body, made of SS, can strach easily so becareful.
Mags are also a gas hog, so you should get at least a medium sized tank.
The worst part of owning a mag has always been short stroking. I gaurentee you NO ONE who has owned a mag with a semi frame has never short stroked. They are lying through their teeth if they say otherwise. Mags have many nick names, such as "mag-crushers," and this is because they are the easiest guns to short stroke, and when you do you are totally screwed. This is why mags never became that popular, and why you see so few people with them. However, this is easily solved by AGD's newest creation of the Level 10 Bolt! Once you get that thing installed and fine tuned you will never break another ball as long as you live. It puts an end to the term "mag-crusher" forever! Word of this device is spreading fast and over the next 6 months you will see a LOT more people with mags with their level 10 upgrade, than ever before. I remind you that it is the reason i bought my mag ; )
The last bad thing about a mag is CO2...all mags HATE CO2 with a passion. The reason is that if any liquid gets into the gun it will freeze the o-rings and you will need to wait a good 10-15 minutes for them to dethaw. If you get a mag, get compressed air! Compressed air is simply the best you can get for ANY gun you have...CO2 is dirty, filled according to weight, not pressure, you get constant velocity spikes and drops, etc. Going compressed air is the best way to go, the mag just helps push you in that direction.
The very first thing you should do is get the level 10 bolt!!! It costs $85 and is like buying a new gun. You will never break another ball and have the confidence to walk on the field without a squeege. It will be the most important thing you buy for your gun.
Second, thing you need to do is get a new barrel, because, to be blunt, the range and accuracy sucks. I would recommend the freak barrel system to everyone, simply, because it is the SECOND most innovative piece of technology out there, after the Level 10 of course. You will never need to buy a new barrel again no matter what gun you use, all you need to do is buy the back piece threaded for your different gun.
Third, you need a new Trigger Frame. The stock one is just discusting, long, heavy, ugly...my recommondation is the Intelliframe (blade trigger style). killer looks and preforms very well, deffinently worth the extra $$$.
Forth, you should get a nitro tank. (Reasons listed above). I would recommend a carbon fiber wrapped one no smaller than a 68ci/3000psi, because the mags are a gas hog.
In Conclusion I love my gun very much, i have done much research and applied many upgrades. The gun now works the way I want it to, and i enjoy it very much. The next upgrade i am considering is the RT valve because it would create for me the perfect gun. I gave this gun a rating of 7, because this gun kept stock sucks (of course i kept in mind upgrading a barrel is something everyone does anyway). After getting the Freak Kit, Level 10 Bolt, Intelliframe and a Nitro tank (something i planned on getting no matter what), i rate MY gun with a 9/10. If i decide to get a RT valve it would give me the perfect 10/10 gun to suit my needs.
Despite all the good and bad comments i have spit out, i would still recommend this gun to people, because it is deffinently a quality product. All you need to do is apply a few upgrades (depending on the kind of player you are) and you will have the gun perfectly suited for you.
i really hope that you know that ALL GUNS SHOOT THE SAME DISTANCE, provided the same velocity, and paint to barrel match. Also, just fyi, any barrel longer than 12" is a waste of metal, and gas. Other than those bits of ignorance, thanks for taking the time to write a good review.
yeah i have to object with your unfair treatment of the spyder xtra. my friend, who is just getting into paintball, bought one and has been very pleased withit. of course, the gun is 10 times better with the right upgrades, but i still think you dubbing it "trash" is, quite frankly, wrong. It works!!
Thank you for the in-depth review of the minimag, i just might buy one as soon as i get the cash =)
xIrish, can you explain to me how a gun shoots farther with a halob? maybe you mean the halo makes/helps the gun shoot faster. no hopper, that i know, improves a gun's distance (maybe the webmaster at evil knows).
first of all any barrel over 14in will just kill everything. and the accuracy for the barrel is not the barrel it self its the bore size you have to match and as far as the trigger pull its not as hard ass you think with the intelly it speeds up the bps by 4-5 which is alot
i still dont understand how a hopper makes your gun shoot farther.....
distance is measured by fps and paintball to barrel match, thats it
i do dissagree with the idea that a barrel over 12" is worthless
quote:Originally posted by shorty43543 first of all any barrel over 14in will just kill everything. and the accuracy for the barrel is not the barrel it self its the bore size you have to match and as far as the trigger pull its not as hard ass you think with the intelly it speeds up the bps by 4-5 which is alot
NO, you're wrong. the barrel does make a huge difference. If you had a steel pipe with the perfect bore size, would it fire well. NO. Accuracy is also dependant on things like Micro-Honing, Special coatings (I.E. Ceramic, etc), and porting. Also, barrel length has an effect on accurace and range. Shorter barrels will be less accurate but shoot further, while longer barrels are more accurate but have a little less distance. This is because of frictioon in the barrel. So next time, before you say anything, do some homework.
I never understood why people say that mags are paintblenders. I only chop about one ball out of 3000 without a level ten. Mabye they fixed it with the new line of markers (I have a pro classic), i dont know. Also mabye your short stroking, its an easy thing to do if your used to blowback guns.
Range depends on one thing, and that's muzzle velocity. If all guns to test are chroned to 300FPS, they'll shoot the same distance, no matter what. Longer or shorter barrels might give better or worse gas efficiency and therefore get better or worse range at a given psi/volume, but if the paint leaves the barrel at 300FPS, it'll go just as far as any other paint leaving any other barrel at 300FPS, assuming the angle's the same. (So, everyone else, do your homework and take an intro physics class before you tell other people to do thier homework).
FYI - A mechanical mag's trigger weight is 3lbs, if you don't like it buy a ULT and drop that to 15oz. If a Spyder isn't crap, there's something much better for less out there. The mag's trigger pull isn't longer than most other mech guns. ...And I've never short stroked my Minimag, except while messing around and dry-firing.
Last edited on Thursday, July 7th, 2005 at 2:56 pm PST
Dispute: "... Spyder Xtra - Gun is absolute trash ..."
- Really unfair treatment for this cheap marker. I have experiences with many of them... I do not like them, they are really not perfect (and it is not only problem of the open bolt - blow back - stacket dube design, some of old Spyders were alot better), but it is decent starter gun for his price... and he has nearly the same key internals as here prefered Spyder Flash - with lower BPS they shoot equal.
"... First, and foremost, get the level 10 bolt ..."
- I do not have problems with my lvl 7 bolts. No ball breaks, no velocity spikes. And lvl 7 is more efficient than lvl 10. Lvl 10 can be perhaps better for Speedball players with highter ROF than I use, but lvl 7 is imho alot better (due of his efficiency) for others.
"... The stock trigger is long and very heavy (i'd say about 10-11 pounds ..."
- I have no problems with trigger pull of stock Mags. They are not best there, but they are good enought. I think that stock trigger weight is only around 4-6lbs... it is nothing for benchrest, but likewise not some horrible "lawyer trigger"...
"... The distance for mags is terrible. Especially with the stock barrel... ..."
- all markers (not giving spin to paintball) shoot the same distance, provided the same velocity, and "paint to barrel match". If you are not content with your stock Mag barrel, then you simply have bad paint and bad velocity setting for it. I own two Mags (Classic and Mini) and both have very good accuracy (and "range") with thier stock barrels. You do not need buy new barrels to your mag, sufficient is buy good paint for it... if you have not problem with Field Paint Only rule.
"... Compressed air is simply the best you can get for ANY gun you have...CO2 is dirty, filled according to weight, not pressure, you get constant velocity spikes and drops, etc. Going compressed air is the best way to go ..."
- I have a lot of different markers (Sheridan, Nelson, Sterling pumps, Spyders, Mags) and Im sure that for some markers there is nothing better than good solved CO2 setup. HPA total dominance over CO2 is only hype. But you are right that for Mags is HPA better than CO2, especially when you play in cold with hight ROF. For other than these extreme conditions simply use vertical bottle (on marker or on remote), or X-chamber and anti-siphoned horizontal bottle and you will be happy with your Mag even on CO2... and it will be a lot cheaper for you. For most of Rec players, are Mags on CO2 great, equal for HPA.
- CO2 tanks are filled according to weight not pressure, because they do not loss pressure until there is liquid CO2 in them. This is advantage, not disadvantage - you have natural, failure-free, maintenance-free and cost-free pressure regulator in every your cheap CO2 tank.
- Food industry CO2 is as well clean as HPA from scuba tanks, so there it is problem only of the specific fill station and specific tank what do you use. Modern seal materials are not inflicted with CO2, even not with liquid CO2.
- I use a lot of pumps on liquid CO2... and some Spyders on unregulated gas CO2... they can have both phenomenal accuracy (4" circle on 50 feet) and consistency (max. +- 5 fps) with good threatment and tournament grade paint. If you have velocity spikes with CO2, then you do not use them properly.
Last edited on Thursday, December 20th, 2007 at 3:05 pm PST