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sharp shoot pb Tuesday, November 9th, 2004
Period of
Field Use:
3 years
Last There: N/A
Paintball
Experience:
3 years
Other Fields
in the Area:
Wildcat Paintball Park
Wacky Warriors East / West
Xtreme
Review: I played paintball for my very first time at Bushwackers 3 years ago. I've taken on paintball as a pretty serious hobby. I've played at different fields in the Metro area with different groups of people. Some open play and some with a group of 26-50 year old men that have gotten together. The group decided to return to Bushwackers for a reserve game. We all have equipment of different levels.

First, we arrived way ahead of the reserve time. We seemed to get pushed back until someone could find some time to do our pre game introduction to the park. At no time did anyone mention the fact that we had to use house paint. I stood there in the introduction with a chromed/anodized gun and 2 cases of paint at my feet. So were lots of our group members. Yes, there seemed to be a price reduction from what it used to be but at $80 a case it needed a reduction. It's better now but the paint rules are goofy. Use your own paint and gun in open play, use house paint in your own gun for reserve groups?

Once we got into the staging area and was assigned a ref, we had to wait another 10 - 15 minutes to find a field that didn't have a group of kids. If it was a situation where the park is busy. Shorten up the game times and get some turn around time going. Nobody likes an elimination game with 10 year olds hiding at each end of the field waiting for the other.

We had two different refs in the course of the day. One little to no energy, the other seemed pretty good and had some interest in keeping watch for paint checks or gun problems.

The person behind the counter came off arrogant and was a jerk. Say what you want about Illinois fields, but the people there care and have some enthusiasm. Something you don't see at the Missouri fields especially this one. The feeling I got there was that nobody cared that I was spending my money and time there along with the rest of my group (all 16 of us) instead of another field.

The fields are ok, but definetly worn. Build another staging area with all your paint profits. There was nowhere to put our stuff to prevent younger players from stepping on guns, hoppers, masks, etc.

This is definetly a beginners field where mom and dad pay just to get rid of the kids for the day. Experienced paintballers beware. They don't want to work for your business, and it is a business no matter how well off the owners are or are not. Hobby or not it's got to be run professionally.

I will not return to this field nor promote this field. Go to Illinois where your business is appreciated and the game is still fun.
 

Review Comments
                            
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iq100 Tuesday, November 9th, 2004 | 10:46 am PST
Moms and Dads are in the habit of dropping their kids off at BushWhackers--this is certainly true. West St. Louis County residence don't have any desire to drive to rural Illinois to play paintball--the place scares them and they're not in a crowd that makes them feel comfortable. Parents trust BushWhackers for good reason--adults run it. Field paint only is a common practice from coast to coast. My experience includes New York, Chicago, the West Coast and Hawaii. Get used to it. That you can still use your own paint in open play is a generous policy by comparison to almost every part of the country. The owner drives a pick up truck and has never been arrogant or snobby. He's just a regular guy. Maybe you just don't fit in to that particular environment and should play where you feel comfortable.
   

sharp shoot pb Tuesday, November 9th, 2004 | 8:38 pm PST
If you'll read my review, at no time did I mention anything other than behaviors from the staff of Bushwackers. I discussed my experience and the appearance given by the staff that day. There was no point at which I say that any person was anything....only their behavior(ie. lack of enery, showed interest, came offf arrogant, etc). That being said...
What is it with people from Missouri that makes them think that people from Illinois are all friggin' backwoods hillbillies? Get a clue. Okay, if it's gonna be common policy to use house paint, be sure to notify the groups when reserving times and mention it in the pre game intro. That was my big complaint towards the paint issue. Driving a pickup truck doesn't automatically make you anything but a truck owner. Been to a car lot lately? Everyone is getting one, most never use it as design intends. I drive a truck...we're not buddies. To be honest, I wouldn't want to "fit in" to that environment if this is the attitude required. Is that part of doing business with an operation such as this? I just wanted to pay my field fee and play ball. Missouri attitudes get in the way of honest business. That 's the difference. And you're right I will continue to play where I feel comfortable and that is my reason for writing this review and rebuttle. I think everyone should review their last visit and decide whether or not this place is for them.
   

STL_Baller Wednesday, November 10th, 2004 | 5:18 am PST
Hey iq100.....I drive a truck.....and I am an upper class snob! Hell I probably make more than your parents and you combined, and I'm only 34.

Moron.........I wonder if you have a vested interest in Bushwackers??????

Sharp shoot pb is right.......Why do all Missouri residents think that they are supperior to Illinois residents??? They are always talking about WEST COUNTY.......well what about...
<br>
1. South County.......last time I was there, I saw 7 people in walmart without shoes on???<br>
2. North County........what is the exact murder rate now....are you still #1 in the nation???<br>
3. St. Louis City........uh....does anybody live there anymore?<br>

Fact is that West County makes up a very small percentage of the St. Louis population....get over yourselves!
   

SquidMan Wednesday, November 10th, 2004 | 7:05 am PST
One quick thing. I know what you guys are talking about with all the fields being taken. That's understandable. Only problem was the 18 private groups we had that day. EIGHTEEN. And a 50+ person open play on top of that. I can't just kick paying customers off of a playing field because another paying customer wants that field. The normal open play goes from 10-5 on Sat. and Sun. BUT, I realized that day that we had not gotten as many games in as I had intended, so I extended open play for another 30-45 mins for those who were willing to stay and play.

But back to the 18 groups. If we suck so bad, how in the hell did we get 18 groups of 15 or more people to show up in the same day?? And have 50+ in open play?? And yes, watching little kids hide and shoot at each other for the 7 hour open play, or 4 hour private group can be very tedious.

Welcome to paintball. I challenge you to find a place that turns little kids and their parents away. Just not good business. When the county you're in's key demographic is working parents who want to dump their kids off somewhere for the day, and not have to worry about them.
   

iq100 Wednesday, November 10th, 2004 | 7:52 am PST
The assumption that I was making a state by state comparison is your own. I was merely backing up my assertions with illustrations so as not to be blindly asserting anything: backing up statements with evidence. I did not mean to suggest that one state is better than another (my father is from Moline and my mother is from Chicago, by the way). Read your own review again "...was a jerk." is indeed the way you described a staff member. And if you can't define a person by his behavior, what other method do you suggest, telepathy, divination? Anyway...a pick up truck was cited as evidence that the owner has lived a relatively modest life and doesn't drive, well...a Mercedes for instance. He is, in fact, a carpenter by trade. West County folk do not feel comfortable in rural areas, just as farmers in rural communities feel uncomfortable in pretentious social settings. That's just a fact of life. And why drive to Illinois when our own city already offers what is required? Think, man! And to the STL Baller...I never met an "upper class snob" so crude as to refer to himself as such. If you make more money than my household and my parents that would make you average...congratulations and good luck!
   

SquidMan Wednesday, November 10th, 2004 | 12:02 pm PST
Easy there STL, you're entitled to your opinion, I think everyone respects that. But to go and attack iq like that (whom I know personally) is just not called for. You can say he's wrong, right, whatever. Attacking him personally just makes you seem less intelligent, (although I'm sure you're a smart guy, making more than him and his parents combined at age 34) and childish. Just the thought of calling iq a "moron" is absurd.

For the record, iq is one of, if not the most business savvy person I have ever come across. That means something when you meet as many people as I do in a single day.

   

Quinn80 Wednesday, November 10th, 2004 | 8:12 pm PST
I find it funny that these people accuse Iq of making blanket statements about people in other states when they go and do exactly that "Why do all Missouri residents think that they are supperior to Illinois residents??? " and "What is it with people from Missouri that makes them think that people from Illinois are all friggin' backwoods hillbillies?" People with glass houses......
   

sharp shoot pb Saturday, November 13th, 2004 | 6:02 am PST
Dang, cracked glass wall in the house again! Gotta get that fixed! I should have worded that differently but the point was that in my review I was only describing the way we were treated as a group and really was trying not to make any assumptions of how anyone was as a person. It just ticked me off that IQ immediately made it some kind of personal issue and started talking bad about Illinois people when it wasn't part of the original arguement at all. I'm sticking to my guns but not wasting anymore time on this. Thanks.
   

PBBALLER573 Wednesday, November 17th, 2004 | 6:19 pm PST
18 GROUPS of 15 (or more) player each!! 50+ in OPEN play!! That is very impressive!! So letís do the math:
18x15= 270players in privates
50 (open Play) + 270 Private = 320

320 players for a single day or more as you stated.

Players standing around waiting around to play is not a fun thing.

Mind if I ask how many refs were here this day?

It's not turning away customers they are concerned with its turning away money.
I would rather a field turn away customers then over crowd the place to make an extra buck. Over crowd the place and then it becomes a safety concern no matter how you look at it. Iím sure if you really cared you cold have offered them to come back another day. Maybe offer a Ĺ off pass, many things could have been done to prevent such a negative day of customer feedback. But then when only money is on your mind itís just who you are.

Read the other post on this place you will see the true heart of the owners and staff. Say anything near the truth and they hound your post till everyone stops postingÖ Why is that? Does the truth hurt?

Need I remind you how you ripped off the charity event?

Safety is #1.

Money is #2.
   

iq100 Wednesday, November 17th, 2004 | 7:32 pm PST
"Safety is #1." Who made you the safety Czar anyway? Your statements presuppose that BushWhackers is an unsafe field. This is just not true. You don't seem capable of understanding that parents trust this place absolutely. Your posts and those of your friends border on slander by the way. No one ripped off any charity--the guy who posted that didn't give all the details.
   

Quinn80 Thursday, November 18th, 2004 | 4:40 pm PST
Well if you really want to know.... About 2-3 refs for the counter (plus a manager) and a ref for every group so that adds up to about 11-14 This is because we book groups through out the day and the refs generally work all day. Starting as early as 8 am to as late as 3 or 4pm (later in the summer time of course) So the safety aspect is definitely there, sorry if thats a problem for you. Second I was there all day and didn't hear one complaint about turn around time, actually many of the refs were tipped because they preformed well and the customers enjoyed themselves. As for defending ourselves, ya, sorry the people who work there do tend to get a little annoyed when people go around and spread lies about us like "oh they don't care" "they just want money". If that were the case then refs wouldn't lend players there own equipment on a regular basis, and I can think of a great deal of mine that has gone missing in the process, but the thanks I get from a person who otherwise wouldn't be able to play that day more then makes up for it. Bottom line unless you personally know the refs there (which I do) don't start bashing em, cause you don't know what you are talking about. Also please remember that bushwhackers is a BUSSINESS, so many paint-ballers get offended if they see a park turning a profit, but guess what, the owner has to make a living just like everyone else, this is how he feeds his family. By the way, how do you think that new air system got paid for, or the new x-ball field (which is the ONLY one in St. Louis) that people seem to love, that stuff aint cheap and dosent pay for itself. Lastly if bushwhackers is as horrible as you claim then how come the park has been in business for around 17 years (in paintball thats a long time) and is consistently growing in terms of size, events, and customers, every year. All this while many many other parks in the area have come and gone, think about that one for a while. Thank you, have a nice day.
   

SquidMan Friday, November 19th, 2004 | 5:54 am PST
Yeah, 320 people there that day. This sounds like a personal grudge or something to me. I happen to know 80 percent of the refs recieved a $20+ tip that day alone. (yes, I did do the math on that one) Again, paintball is a BUSINESS. People get offended if we make a profit? Then why not be mad at McDonalds or something, that charges 2 bucks for a quarter pounder, when it only takes them 18 cents to make it? (used to work there, I know).

Or, how about Wal-Mart, Best-Buy, or a car dealership?? They only need to sell one car a day in order to break even with paying for overhead. Everything else is pure profit.

Why not ask the other 320 people there that day. I challenge you to find someone who didn't have an overall good time.

As for bashing the refs, we work our asses off to make sure EVERYONE has a good time. Not just beginners, but scenario players, and some tournament players. To sit there behind your computer and talk up a storm about us, is just wrong. Try being a referee for a weekend, and see what we have to go through on a daily basis.
   

Ramstang Sunday, November 28th, 2004 | 6:45 pm PST
You mean were suppose to tip the refs now??????????? who made that rule??
   

SquidMan Monday, November 29th, 2004 | 7:10 am PST
Most people don't know about tipping. Usually, (in private play) you tip the ref a few bucks if you think he did a good job. Open play is a different story. There has only been one ref I know of who got a tip for open play, and that was me, because I found his keys he lost. I was reluctant to accept the tip, because finding his keys wasn't a big enough deal to need a tip, but he insisted.

But, tips don't have to come in the form of money. I know that every single ref that works here would rather not have to pick up after his group when they are finished. (We usually do, and it can be a pain in the ass. Especially after a very busy day reffing open play) So one easy way to say "thanks" to your ref without having to tip him is to just pick up after yourself when you're done playing. It saves us a lot of time, and is greatly appreciated.

Anyways, that's just to clarify on the whole deal about tipping.
   

Quinn80 Monday, November 29th, 2004 | 2:56 pm PST
tipping is never a rule, its just a courtasey that people extend, and if you think we are B.S.'ing you I know for a fact that people do it at other fields. The other day I had a group that plays at M.C. every now and then and they allways tip the refs their, and at bushwhackers if they like the ref.
Like james said, if open play (or any group for that matter) would pick up after themselves thats better then cash alot of days. BTW we never said that tipping was a rule, we were using it as an expample to show you that you appear to be in a minority that thinks the refs do a poor job because the majority of us do get tipped. If we didnt do a good job, believe me I have been doing this long enough to know, we wouldnt get the tip.

P.S. for anyone who cares the majority of the time the open play ref deserves a tip more then the rest of us because he has to put in atleast twice the effort and work that we do, and I have seen him at work, he does.
   

SquidMan Monday, November 29th, 2004 | 5:46 pm PST
I wouldn't go THAT far. By work, I think you mean dealing with cocky, ignorant people who think they invented paintball, but couldn't tell you the difference between a gravity-fed hopper and a revy.

Kind of like that girl who thought she was the goddess of paintball, and challenged us to a 4 or a 6 man game (read the nppl rule book if you don't understand what I just said)

It's not all bad though. I do find humor in the teenaged kids who come out onto the field thinking they are professionals with a brand new e-bladed autococker (can sometimes go into the upper hundreds, or lower thousands, depending on brand).. that's shooting blue streak and has a 9oz co2 tank on it and breaks in about 10 or 12 shots.

Oh, and by the way, no tipping isn't a rule. But, I'll tell you what, if you come out to the field, and order a pizza, you'd better damn well tip the pizza guy. If you don't tip any of us, that's alright, not uncommon (most people are unaware it is courtesy to tip a referee) but if you don't tip, let's say, the pizza guy, he oughta have every right just to take your pizza away from you and throw it in the dumpster out back.

Sorry, I have ADD, and go on rants sometimes for a lot longer than they should go on.
   

Ramstang Tuesday, November 30th, 2004 | 12:15 am PST
I guess i never heard of ref-tipping, but i do always pick up after myself :)
   

SquidMan Tuesday, November 30th, 2004 | 5:50 am PST
You sir are one in a million. Thank you.
   

manmatt22 Wednesday, December 29th, 2004 | 7:08 pm PST
quote:
Originally posted by STL_Baller

All Missouri residents do not think like that!!! I take offense to that. That is a stereo type. And you guys are hypocrits because you are accusing us of that but you are doing it yourselves right now. Get over yourselves. Bushwackers Rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
   

manmatt22 Wednesday, December 29th, 2004 | 7:21 pm PST
Big Red is the man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
   
                            
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