Comments on Bilbo1's Review

Bilbo1 Sunday, May 20th, 2007 Period of Field Use: 1 year Last There: August 4th, 2007 Paintball Experience: 1 year Other Fields in the Area: Warplay (awesome field) OA Paintball (very nice as well, but only did scenario there) Fort Detrick Hogback Review: UPDATE: well, today was a day that dropped Pev's a lot in my eyes. Arrived with a group of about 12 people to do walk-on. Also doing walk-on was Pev's sponsored pro paintball team, including at least one player who is also a ref there. We get to the field, and the refs make all the pro team one team, and any other poor souls who walked on the other team. If someone else arrived who was experienced who the pro team knew, they went to the pros' side. If newbies with rental Tippmans showed up, they went to the other side. What followed was wholesale slaughter. Pev's pretty much made us cannon fodder for their sponsored team. What added insult to injury is that the pro who is also a ref started directing how the games would be played so they could get the practice they wanted. It was ridiculous. I don't mind losing games, and I sure don' t mind being shot, but being put in lopsided games with newbies playing pros using hot 800-dollar superguns isn't fun. When some of us approached the ref and suggested he split the walk-ons into beginner and advanced, he said no. He said they didn't see a need to. Well, when lunch came, most of us non-Pevs-team players just left. My thought is if all we are are practice for Pev's' team, then they should just tell us "we're going to use you for our pros to beat up on" and let us play free. As it was, the games went by so fast we didn't get our money's worth anyway. I routinely go there about twice a month with 12-20 people. We all decided after today that, if we ever get there and a sponsored team is playing walk-on (and they won't split up), we will get back in our cars and hit another field like Hogback. They can forgo the 20 paying customers to let their team play for free. Sure, we will miss most of the morning. But if the mornings are like this, we don't want to be there, anyway. ------------------------ After nearly 20 years hiatus from paintball, I am back to playing again. Have been going to Pevs walk-on's about twice a month for the last 5 months. Positives: The fields themselves are nice, and they have enough to give you some variety. The staff is nice. Negatives: 1) the food is ridiculously overpriced for what it is. It isn't bad or anything, but plan on dropping about 10 bucks to eat a decent meal. I really recommend bringing lunch, or at least your drinks. 2) Inconsistency in reffing. They have some very good refs. There is one guy who wears a black-and-white ref jersey who is really good, and he works hard to get you your money's worth (moves games along) and to run the games well. But sometimes you get a crew that either doesn't seem to know what they are doing, or that is too afraid to enforce rules on things like wiping and chrono. There are some crews that are right on things, and do paint checks, get people out without letting them get bonus-balled, etc. But if you get a bad crew it ruins the game. 3) paint prices. Frankly, these are too high at every field, so I can't just singe out Pev's. But even their white box stuff costs a lot. You can use your own paint, though, so again I can't gripe too much. When I had to buy it's because I didn't bring enough of my own paint. 4) running large groups on the small fields. They usually start the day at a couple of the smaller fields, but as more walk ons arrive it gets pretty crowded in there, with players tripping over each other. They need to either split up the walk ons or move to larger fields sooner. 5) Playing one field too long. The white-and-black ref is really good about "2 games at this field then we move on," but some others have run 3 or 4 games on the same field. With so many good fields there, that kind of stinks. 6) Picnic benches in the dead zones. It would be a lot nicer if there was a table or two at each field to use for quick fixes, reloading, etc. At best there is one, and usually all there is is an old cable spool that you can't really use because the water is on it and the refs stand on it. 7) lunch breaks of an hour (or more if things aren't going smoothly). That is just way too long. Usually everyone is done eating in 15 minutes, 30 max, so you sit around waiting to get back on the fields. Maybe this is standard practice, but if even if it is it doesn't make it any better. 8) Not splitting walk-ons into advanced and regular groups. Sometimes there aren't enough people to justify this, but I only saw Pevs do it once, and it made the day a lot better for both groups. What I have found impacts how much fun I have, even more than the refs or prices, is the other players that show up. If you are lucky, most of those who show up are there to play fair and have a good time. They call themselves out when they should and socialize. Other times you get a group that pretty much just wants to show off how many balls their new super-guns can shoot and who won't call themselves out unless you hit them in the mask so they can't see. They are almost always 16 or under. Yeah, I know not all teens cheat. I'm not saying they do. It just seems like they are the biggest offenders, though (don't see many 40-year-olds wiping hits). When I see a group like that I don't know whether I want to be against them so I can try to hit them as many times as possible (if they won't call themselves out, at least I can inflict some pain), or be on their team because they keep shooting all game long no matter how many times the other team hits them. Again, this is probably the same at every field out there, not just at Pevs. What matters is how the refs handle the situation. And that is where I have seen Pevs come up short. Not all the time, but enough to be a problem. In the end, I keep going to Pevs because it is closer than the others. If I was closer to Warplay, I'd rather be there. Since most of my playing was up in the northeast before (and a long time ago), and I haven't hit many places around here, you can factor that into how you take my review. Last edited on Tuesday, August 7th, 2007 at 7:34 pm PST

weltsnbrusis Thursday, July 5th, 2007 | 6:53 pm PST great review, though i am 14 but i pump, so I love to take out the players you have described. Love to tell them how they got owned by a pump. Anyways, you are totally right about the refs. One time i was at village and one ref was dead in front of me towards the path. I asked him to move (with a please) and he said "oh your not gonna hit them anyway". *****es. so i shot the flag which was right next to his head and he moved =D...........................................great review and i love pevs still

VicodinES Monday, August 6th, 2007 | 9:20 am PST >>Also doing walk-on was Pev's sponsored pro paintball team<< I'm not quite sure what you mean by a "Pevs Sponsored Pro Team." Pev's doesn't sponsor anyone who plays woodsball, and quite honestly, none of the actual sponsored players would set foot on a field that wasn't either speedball, hyperball, or airball. >>including at least one player who is also a ref there<< That's not unusual, considering that a signifigant number of people who play out there also ref at the field. It's how they pay to play at the field. >>And they were shooting HOT. I mean, in gunfights we couldn't even reach them and they'd be sending balls past our heads<< If anything, they were shooting below 290 fps. Most of the people on this "pro team" have been playing long enough to not have to cheat with a hot gun, and, usually carry a pocket chrono with them to check to see if they start to shoot hot. And I recall plenty of shots from the other side whizzing past my head. >>What added insult to injury is that the pro who is also a ref started directing how the games would be played so they could get the practice they wanted<< Practice for what? the woodsball tournament? The reason that the ref who was playing was directing that game, is that he designed the castle field, and none of the active reffing team knew how it worked. >>newbies playing pros using hot 800-dollar superguns<< Once again, Chris Lasoya and Ollie lang weren't out there shooting up newbie woodsballers. None of the "pros" were shooting hot, and out of the group that was there, there was one ego that was over 800 dollars. The rest of the guns were older electronic guns that couldn't sell for more than 500 bucks these days, or an ion, or a proto rail. >>They can forgo the 20 paying customers to let their team play for free<< three of the "pros" that were there that day play for free, because they ref at the field, the rest of the "pros" have to pay. The day that any of the other "pros" get to play for free, I'm playing the lottery, because it's a sign from above. There was a problem with hot guns that day. It was pretty much walk-ons using tippmans/spyders with CO2, and the heat had caused the pressure to spike, and therefore shoot well over the 300 fps limit. Everyone had to rechrono at the end of lunch, and they checked everyone again as they were walking onto the field (which didn't help you, since you were already gone). at least 20 people were found with hot guns, and were sent back to the parking lot to re-chrono their guns. None of the "pro" players were found with a hot gun. You should also keep in mind that due to the heat and humidity, the paint had swollen, and was very elastic - meaning that it wasn't breaking when it hit someone. And balls that don't break can easily break the skin, and leave one hell of a welt, even at 250 fps. The vast majority of the "pro" team left after lunch or stopped playing due to the heat (because a lot of them are old and out of shape,and have bad knees and backs), and after one game, the remaining 5 were switched to the other team. The yellow team then completely dominated the remaining games. And it wasn't because the 5 people were able to put down a withering field of fire, it's because they got the remaining 35 players to play aggressively, to move at angles so they could hit opponents hanging out of bunkers, and not to hang back 35 yards out of range. I have two bad knees, a surgically reconstructed spine, shoulder and wrist, and I'm about as fast as vertebrate evolution. But when 10 people hanging back see me lumbering foreward, and diving into a bunker, they get the idea that they can do the same thing, and move up and start playing aggressively. That's how I got started. I got shot up a lot in the beginning, learned how to play better, and went from there. Your depictions of the reffing at AG is quite accurate, and it's been really bad lately. If Marty (the head ref - he has a black and white jersey and a "dreadlocked" mask) isn't running the show, then it tends to bog down with a bunch of timid 15 year olds who either don't care, or don't have a clue. If you feel that the games are uneven, and the reffs aren't doing anythign about it, go to John P., the head of the reffs, or ask to talk to Jim Sr. or Jim Jr. Or, go up to one of those "pro" players, and ask them if they'd mind splitting up, or if they have any advice on how to play a particular field, or if they know of someone selling a "supergun" for about the same price as a slightly upped spyder or tippmann so that you can compete. Something else to keep in mind is that if you're coming out with groups of 12-20, you can always do a private group. Which means that you don't have to deal with the rest of the walk-on crowd, you get your own reff's, and you get field priority.

Marchborne Monday, August 6th, 2007 | 12:10 pm PST In response to your update, all I can say is WOW, did you completely misunderstand the situation. First, I am a member of the group you discuss, and I can tell you that none of us are "pros." Only a very few of that group are actually "sponsored," and by that I mean they get discounts on paint, air, etc. BTW, those discounts are given because each one of those folks either works for PEVs or AG in one form or another. In my case, I have been playing that fielf since 1988, and have ALWAYS bought gear, air, etc. at full price (with a very rare exception), despite the fact that I, like most in our group, help work around the fields, in particular with the Big Games. Also, as to shooting hot, I can guarantee you that you won't find us doing that on purpose: some of our guys ref, and we know lots of the refs, as well as the management, and the last thing we'd want to do is see somebody get hurt. You hear a call for a paint check, that was probably one of our guys. Last time I played two weeks ago, I was shot out, and while walking off the field, did a paint-check for somebody on the other team, since there wasn't a ref nearby (player was clean, BTW). You see a newbie that's getting some extra help in how to play, that's likely one of us. As VicodinES noted, we like to help the new folks get adjusted into how to move and play properly. At least four of our players are father and son -- although at this point, it's a good question as to who's teaching who about the game in that case. We like to play together, for the same reasons your group wants to play together. There's a difference though -- when we see the games are going unevenly, we split up voluntarily. Next time y'all are out playing as a group, let's split each of our groups half-and-half, and we'll all shoot the $%^# out of each other, as the "core" of each team. But if y'all want to play together, deal. I'm easy to spot: skinny late 30's guy with glasses, with that haunted look that comes with a mortgage and a toddler. Although if you play twise a month, you're getting in a lot more field time than me, so you may have to wait a while to bump into me. If you don't like the refs, say something to one of our gang. We have no authority over them, but we know them, and may be able to move things along if you think you're not getting enough games in. I have to go home at lunch, so I want as many morning games as you for my $15 bucks (correct field fee, $12 if you bought a marker at PEV's, and remembereed your key chain). P.S.: to the 14-year old pump guy: a bunch of us play pump often, we encourage it. Good on yer. Any questions on this comment? marchborne@aol.com.

Bilbo1 Monday, August 6th, 2007 | 4:28 pm PST I just read the posts from Vicoden and Marchborne. I applaud them for stepping forward to explain their side. Not having been there when they did chronos after lunch, I don't know what happened. If in fact all the pro players were under the limit, It surprises the heck out of me. I can tell you for sure I wasn't the only one who felt like we were shooting spitballs at a machine gun. The fact Pev's doesn't sponsor woodsball players doesn't make those people any less pro. You guys have a tremendous advantage because you have all played together a lot, so you know what the others will do, you have your codes worked out, etc. Those skills are there no matter what sort of game you play in tournaments. As for splitting up when things are lopsided, I would think that after the first two games when you tore us apart you would have caught on how things were going, but I didn't see any of you suggesting to the refs that they split you up. If you had, I am sure they would have done it. I also agree that having Marty there makes a HUGE difference in how well the games run. When he is around, they really start playing at 9:30. Most other times games don't start until 9:55 or 10. Another ref, who was one of the "pros" last week, also runs things very well, and I think he worked real hard to get people a lot of play time and make it exciting. If the way he said Castle needs to be played is the "right" way, I can't figure out why no other ref has run it that way. I just ask you to consider what it looks like for a someone who goes there pretty regularly when the one day that ref is playing with his team, the game is played in a completely new way. One thing I didn't mention earlier is that there was a lot of dead man talking by the pro team. I saw it first hand, and so did others. I know that a lot of it is taking advantage of the opportunity to have everyone practice your tactics, but it is a rule just as much for you as us. As for sponsored players playing free, I did not mean to imply they don't work for that privilege. I know they work big events and games. What I do mean is that if getting creamed drives away new and paying players, it hurts not just the mgmt, but everyone, since the field won't stay in business if they don't make money. Last edited on Monday, August 6th, 2007 at 4:58 pm PST

keysersoze73 Monday, August 6th, 2007 | 6:03 pm PST I too am one of the group of 12 "pros". All I can say is that after playing together for years at this point we sort of have a chemistry. I know my marker was not 800 dollars, and purchased new can be found for 550. What I find interesting is that I went to my local coffee shop on saturday and the guy making the drinks recognized me from the field the previous day. He mention that he was part of a large group that played yellow. I asked if he enjoyed himself and he had despite the lopsided sides. As a group we are really out there to help foster the growth of the sport. I understand the frustration that you have showed and maybe we should in fact split ourselves up. I know my prior visit to PEVs I did just that and played opposite my friends. Please also keep in mind I noticed that there were others not in our group but on our side that were using 2 way radios. While not a distinct advantage in a small game they had end to end field vision most of the time.....just another thing to keep in mind. BTW - you can recongize me as the 6'1 guy weighing in at 265 with a "deadringers" patch on his tactical vest. Please feel free to introduce yourself the next you are up there and see us....

GANGSTA4HIRE Tuesday, August 7th, 2007 | 5:17 pm PST I'm also one of the so called Pev's "PRO" players, the one you refer to as the "PRO" who is also a ref. I find your review INSULTING . Your Quote of [ and they were shooting HOT ] I take special offense to because that implies that we were either CHEATING or DANGEROUSLY UNSAFE ! neither of which is true. Safety is extremely important and is not something that any our group would violate to get some sort of advantage. I do agree that we do have an advantage over others because we communicate with each other on the field. Maybe you could work on that with the 12 people you brought with you . The other thing that you might want to take a look at is tactics on the field its easy to say that it was a slaughter, that it was lopsided, and that it was ridiculous, but its hard to not take advantage of major tactical errors on the playing field. [flanking maneuvers]. I suggest that you work more on YOUR game. I would like to clear up another issue that you had by addressing the Castle field game VicodinES stated that I designed that field, actually I REDESIGNED it. The change came about a month ago, and with Marty at a cfoa event, the ref who was running the games didn't know how it was supposed to run.

Bilbo1 Tuesday, August 7th, 2007 | 7:33 pm PST Gangsta, First, keep in mind this is a review of the field, not you. I primarily fault Pev's refs for letting what happened happen. But you share some of that, because like it or not, when you play AND you put on your ref hat when you want to give directions to the game refs, you ARE Pev's. And Pev's should have a role beyond just safety - they should try to make the experience fair and enjoyable for all. The refs there should have taken the initiative to split up the walk on or at least balance it. As I said, I asked them to and they blew me off. Had you asked, do you have any doubt it would have happened? Let us assume I was wrong about the pros shooting hot. As I said, I wasn't there for the chrono after lunch, so I don' t know. If I was wrong, then I apologize, to both you and your teammates. But I think that is the only thing you can take any offense to. You cannot deny dead man talking, because I personally saw you doing it. You cannot deny talking smack to a bunch of newbies and kids while you shot ropes at them, because we all saw you doing that, and I even said something to you about it. You cannot deny that you directed how the Castle game would be played (again, consider how it looks to every other person out there when a player, not a ref, dictates how the game will be played). You cannot deny that a team that has played together for years will dominate a bunch of walk-ons who don't practice as a unit, and don't know every angle and hideout on the fields. Finally, you cannot deny that neither you nor anyone on your team made an effort to even things up. If you like repeatedly overpowering an unorganized group, that is fine. But don't be surprised when the other team doesn't enjoy it. I would think that if you really wanted a challenge you would have split up so you were playing others of the same skill level. In the end, I would think that you, as a ref at Pevs, would appreciate that the appearance you give to the non-pro player is important, and just telling them to "work on your game" isn't exactly the attitude that makes people want to come back. I am going to go back and edit out my comments about shooting hot, as not only you but the cooler heads of Marchborne and VicodenES seem pretty upset about it. I'm sorry, but I stand by the other comments. Last edited on Wednesday, August 8th, 2007 at 6:53 am PST

Accident Wednesday, August 8th, 2007 | 9:18 pm PST just throwing my two cents in here, as one of the guys that played with the "pros". you seem to have spent a lot of time on the players, instead of the management/staff of the field. which, to me atleast, is the purpose of a field review. AG, just like every other field, is owned and operated by people. and like everywhere else, some are smarter/harder working/friendlier than others. of course i will not mention names, but some of the refs that "work" there regularly on the weekends need to be fired. everybody except some of the management seems to know this. "you cannot deny that neither you nor anyone on your team made an effort to even things up." if you didn't have a good time because the teams were so badly balanced, its the responsibility of the ref's and other staff on duty, not the players. now, i am not saying that the group had every right to roll the other team, i am just saying its not their responsibility to make sure you have a good time. they of course have an obligation to be polite and fair....but only to the point that they aren't holding themselves back for others. don't get me wrong, all of the "pros" you mentioned are GREAT people, they are all very friendly and very smart. they don't go around ruining other people's days for fun. the fact is there is no rule, other than their own conciences, telling them to help the other team have fun.... how can one criticize another for not doing something that wasn't even required in the first place?

Bilbo1 Thursday, August 9th, 2007 | 4:43 am PST Accident, I agree, the purpose of the review is to review the field. That is why my overarching point is that the refs should have acted. They should have acted when asked to chrono the pros. They didn't. They should have acted when the teams were lopsided. They didn't. They should have at least considered splitting the walk ons into advanced and beginner groups, like they have done before, but didn't. Several people, not just me, tried to get the refs to do something, but they didn't. All that said, whether you admit it or not, the pros control the refs there. This is especially true when a pro player is also a ref. If you want to lay it all on the refs on duty, then don't have one of your "players" directing games and ignoring rules. The refs will not and do not confront the pros, especially when one of the pros is a senior ref there. This has been a problem with Pevs for a long time, not just last week. Like I said before, though, you can't just fall back and say "I'm only a player, not a ref" when you basically direct the refs. Getting back to the original point, it is Pev's fault for letting this mixed-up authority persist. My comment as to the pros asking to split up was based on another of your group saying they do split up when things are lopsided. I simply pointed out that there wasn't any effort to do that on Saturday. I don't deny that the pros can be great people. Even the player/ref I spoke of I will admit does a great job when he is on-duty reffing and does try to make it fun. And I have seen other pros be quite helpful to other players. I just don't think a lot of pros realize how good you've got it when you are on a team that is basically untouchable (or at least untouched) by the refs. It is easy to be nice when you never lose. And you are absolutely right that for "pure" players, there is no rule saying you have to make it enjoyable for others. If nothing else, I would think that at some point for the pros just hosing down weekend warriors would get old, and you would want a better challenge. There is also no rule that says other players have to be happy or keep coming if they are at a field that doesn't make an effort to make it enjoyable. Last edited on Thursday, August 9th, 2007 at 5:34 am PST

Accident Thursday, August 9th, 2007 | 4:21 pm PST "That is why my overarching point is that the refs should have acted." then stick to that point. "They should have acted when asked to chrono the pros. They didn't." they did. they chronoed everbody. twice. "They should have acted when the teams were lopsided. They didn't." once again, they did. even though about 6 of the "pros" left due to the heat and humidity, the remaining 6 were switched to the other team. guess who won from then on? "They should have at least considered splitting the walk ons into advanced and beginner groups" personaly, i don't believe there were enough bodies present to warrant the extra refs and such. i have been playing at pevs for about 7-8 months.from what i have heard, it seems like splitting all of the walk ons is done very rarely and in extreme cirumstances. "Several people, not just me, tried to get the refs to do something, but they didn't. " sadly, some refs are like that. especially younger ones. they aren't going to go through the effort to appease one complaining player. or even 5 when there are 40 more waiting for the game to start. "All that said, whether you admit it or not, the pros control the refs there." i wish that was true. then i could get free paint and air! "This is especially true when a pro player is also a ref." are you implying favoritism? i should hope not, because that could be very insulting to people that value their integrity. "then don't have one of your "players" directing games and ignoring rules." when was this?' "The refs will not and do not confront the pros, especially when one of the pros is a senior ref there." "I just don't think a lot of pros realize how good you've got it when you are on a team that is basically untouchable (or at least untouched) by the refs." here's that favoritism implication again...... "And you are absolutely right that for "pure" players, there is no rule saying you have to make it enjoyable for others." pure? in what way are they pure? "I would think that at some point for the pros just hosing down weekend warriors would get old, and you would want a better challenge." that would be true if it weren't for two parts; they don't win every time and a lot of them go to pevs out of convenience. keep your eyes open, you will see some of them occasionaly at places like OA and Warplay. one more thing: why do you insist on reffering to this group of players as "pros"? Last edited on Thursday, August 9th, 2007 at 4:21 pm PST

darktrooper5 Thursday, August 9th, 2007 | 6:47 pm PST There are only two people out at Ag who can hire/fire. Those two people are perhaps the most clueless about the situation. It is a predicament that has been going on for a long time out there. The group in question is willing to split up if asked by a majority of players or if the head ref requests that they split up. The facts are that these players are in fact soem of the best around Va. They obey rues, maintain their gear to top notch standards and most of them are 30-40 year olds who have various knee and back issues. Last edited on Thursday, August 9th, 2007 at 6:48 pm PST

Kato_Lee Sunday, December 2nd, 2007 | 6:50 pm PST >>There was a problem with hot guns that day. It was pretty much walk-ons using tippmans/spyders with CO2, and the heat had caused the pressure to spike, and therefore shoot well over the 300 fps limit. Everyone had to rechrono at the end of lunch, and they checked everyone again as they were walking onto the field (which didn't help you, since you were already gone). at least 20 people were found with hot guns, and were sent back to the parking lot to re-chrono their guns. None of the "pro" players were found with a hot gun. The vast majority of the "pro" team left after lunch or stopped playing due to the heat (because a lot of them are old and out of shape,and have bad knees and backs), and after one game, the remaining 5 were switched to the other team. The yellow team then completely dominated the remaining games. And it wasn't because the 5 people were able to put down a withering field of fire, it's because they got the remaining 35 players to play aggressively, to move at angles so they could hit opponents hanging out of bunkers, and not to hang back 35 yards out of range. I have two bad knees, a surgically reconstructed spine, shoulder and wrist, and I'm about as fast as vertebrate evolution. But when 10 people hanging back see me lumbering foreward, and diving into a bunker, they get the idea that they can do the same thing, and move up and start playing aggressively. That's how I got started. I got shot up a lot in the beginning, learned how to play better, and went from there. Your depictions of the reffing at AG is quite accurate, and it's been really bad lately. If Marty (the head ref - he has a black and white jersey and a "dreadlocked" mask) isn't running the show, then it tends to bog down with a bunch of timid 15 year olds who either don't care, or don't have a clue. If you feel that the games are uneven, and the reffs aren't doing anythign about it, go to John P., the head of the reffs, or ask to talk to Jim Sr. or Jim Jr. Or, go up to one of those "pro" players, and ask them if they'd mind splitting up, or if they have any advice on how to play a particular field, or if they know of someone selling a "supergun" for about the same price as a slightly upped spyder or tippmann so that you can compete. I must agree with you on several points - The markers on C02 especially the Spyders get very hot after lunch. I have seen a few Spyders get as high as 340 during the afternoon handheld chrono check. The ref made them fix before they could play. I have seen a few players leave because they couldn't get the marker down to the legal limit. Spyders are notorious for having spring issues. Pevs is the only field that I have seen that conduct after lunch chrono checks!! Marty is the Best Ref without a doubt, I hope they the owner/manager gives him the respect that he deserves. There a few others that do a good job, but Marty is tops. I have seen the guy that gives the safety briefing get on the ATV and check on the games if he was getting complaints. Sorry I don't know his name. As far a splitting up, that could be a tough one. I have seen the Number 2 ref go crazy because you the 'pro' team didn't want to split up. I have played with and again the 'pro' team. Let me say that I am glad that your numbers thin out around lunch time, especially if I am on the other team. I have never witness any cheating by the 'Pro' team. When I play on their side they offer assistance and encourage everyone to play harder. I think that a lot a valid points have been raised by all on this post. It is good to see such a positive exchange of ideas. Last edited on Sunday, December 2nd, 2007 at 7:02 pm PST