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View Full Version : Help with LP/recocking prob.A short, simple lesson in flow dynamics


ptflyer
02-06-2001, 03:25 PM
I posted this on another board.and I thought I should post this here..

Thought this would help to explain how to set up your spyder for LP and help you fix a studder problem....FROMG3PAINTBALL...(gotta give them props)they explain it so well...

A short, simple lesson in flow dynamics. Most playersout there will slap a combination of parts into their respective guns -limited only by their budgets. What they often wind up with is a poor performing piece of equipment. Through lack of experience or not wanting to admit they goofed up, they often have something akin to a slug afterspending a ton of money.
My advice is normally to buy a "done deal", an upgraded piece from a reputable source that specializes in performance Spyders. In a way I really hate to recommend this because I think it is very important that you learn to do these things yourself; because if you ever have a problem, then it should be much easier for you to determine it's source....

Ok, back to the lesson...trigger is pulled, main spring and rear adjuster tension determines how hard the striker hits the valve stem. So, the valve now opens. How far is usually limited by the length of the valve stem protruding out of the valve body. The time the valve
stays opens "dwell", is determined by the kenetic energy of the moving mass; weight of the stricker, bolt, etc.

So, if we need to propel a projectile(paintball), we need a given amount of force to accomplish this. The lower the pressure applied, the more volumn of gas is required to too slowly then the ball will never accellerate to speed. It's basically a matter of passing the volumn of gas as determined by it's pressure, as quickly as possible....the longer the dwell, the worse the shot to shot consistency becomes(usually always).
So, we need to keep the valve spring tension as stiff as possible but still allow the valve to remain open long enough to pass gas. Also, the longer the dwell, the lower the pressure being applied directly to the ball; since it's expanding as it enters a larger cavity - in this case, the path through the bolt and the "firing chamber". From a technical standpoint this still happens very quickly so it is usually not a concern but I have fired guns that I could pull the trigger faster than the gun can properly cycle at.....that's not good...

On blow-backs, such as the Spyder, we have another concern that doesn't complicate such guns as the AutoCocker. The Spyder requires a volumn of gas to pass through the valve body (AKA Valve) or around the valve stem in order to build pressure in the lower body to push the stricker and bolt to the rear in order to "cock" the gun, preparing it for the next cycle.
So, we have the dwell and pressure bit coming into play again. The weaker the main spring, the less pressure is required to cycle the gun. The Maddman valve spring set includes a valve spring that when allow the gun to properly cycle down below 100 psi.....No more burping full-auto that Low Pressure Spyders are know for.

Please remember this....Most players miss this point.....the idea is not to achieve the lowest possible operating pressure although most seem to think so. It's not something to brag about that you got your Spyder to shoot below 300 psi for bragging rights to your friends;that you turned your gun into a slug. The idea is to find the pressure, that in combination with the selected components, works the most efficiently.

TLplus84
02-06-2001, 03:27 PM
I shoot 260 psi at 275 fps. I don't think that's really sluggish do you? :D :D

ptflyer
02-06-2001, 03:31 PM
I got your e-Mail TL.good job..hehe...ain't is sweet..LOL

Keikan
02-06-2001, 03:33 PM
Is it a really big advantage to Go LP with a cocker?

ptflyer
02-06-2001, 03:39 PM
I think it is advantige to go LP with any marker..look how much they get for custom LP cockers.....$800-$1200..and MORE!!!.so you tell me.....

TLplus84
02-06-2001, 03:49 PM
DEFINITELY your gun gets mad quiet HEY PT THANX MAN~! i didn't know modifying the ASA could get my psi so low..i mean 260 at 275 fps is nice :D :D

Irongut99
02-06-2001, 03:54 PM
I hear softer valve spring then firmer??
I hear softer softer main spring then firmer??

Which one is it? Or I guess you just try the differnt combo's till it works!

ptflyer
02-06-2001, 03:54 PM
thats great....I knew it would.....it worked wonders on my marker...wish that was the first thing I did...

now the question becomes..how low can you go....LOL

ptflyer
02-06-2001, 03:56 PM
Irongut.check out the post.


LP/recocking prob.A short, simple lesson in flow dynamics

It should help you out......

TLplus84
02-06-2001, 03:56 PM
hrm..i'm guessing around 200 psi, but i wouldn't try..my gun would turn into a slug shooter..:P it's pointless to brag about your gun shootin 200 psi when your paintballs leave the barrel at like 100 fps

Irongut99
02-06-2001, 03:57 PM
What worked wonders??

I'm trying to get my TL+ LP??

Waiting for the valve and the spring kit to come in.

ptflyer
02-06-2001, 03:58 PM
oh.that's this thread.never mind...


no.first try a heavy valve spring.....and work to a lighter one..

remember....it's the dwell you want as short as you can get..

ptflyer
02-06-2001, 03:59 PM
and you will have to drill out your ASA....for more flow....(thats what will "work wonders")

TLplus84
02-06-2001, 04:00 PM
lighter spring the better. THat's what i learned. I mgith be wrong though..

Irongut99
02-06-2001, 04:06 PM
I drilled out the ASA.
Just got a "core" co2 reg @

http://www.paintball-online.com/store/prodinfo.asp?number=CO2-TREG-&variation=&aitem=41&mitem=42

Changed the Main spring but if I turned it down my FPS went way down.

Just orderd the maddman spring kit and a turbo valve.

Will remove the "venturi" insert.

Then where should I start??

TLplus84
02-06-2001, 04:45 PM
you will need a new barrel, preferable a small bore with little excessive porting. The j&j is a good example. it is a small bore with little porting. The Lapco barrels are nice for lp too. You will also want to polish your internals. Look at my thread called "Requested trigger job info" or something like that..i dont' remember the exact name of the thread..it will show you how to polish your internals. After that, turn your reg down, and see how low it will shoot before it starts to burp. then set it to where you are comfy, and you ahve lp~!

Irongut99
02-07-2001, 05:35 AM
Forgot to mention I have a 14" J&J on it.
Thanks for the info. Waiting for the rest of the parts.
Really having a problem getting the trigger pin out to try trigger job though?

TLplus84
02-07-2001, 07:52 AM
You REALLY have to pound on that trigger pin..got me close to 20 minutes getting it out the first time...after that though, the pin comes out pretty easy. Make sure you're taking out out the right way, with the grooves on the pin coming out first.

A damn fool
02-07-2001, 11:08 AM
Should i buy the madman spring kit for my lp etup. Will it make that big of a difference, and how much does it cost? If i drill out my asa adapter even more then 3/16 holes, will it make that much of a difference or not?

SmartBall
02-07-2001, 11:18 AM
Just buy the spring kit that includes the main spring inserts (should be like 4 or 5 ranging from light to heavy) it should also have the valve spring (light only i think) then it should have a trigger spring (again i think they only give yo a light one) if they are all included in the MadMan spring set, then get it!

TLplus84
02-07-2001, 03:54 PM
don't drill out more than 3/16, because most likely you will get a leak. Yeah a Maddman spring set is good. The 32* spring set is good too, but go with the MM, i think it's the best there is.