matrix or viking

[freaky_guy]

im looking for the pros and the cons of each gun

1. iv been looking at the matrix for about a month and i really like them. mine would have bolt kit and trinity reg.

2. i know absolutly nothing about these awsome looking markers. any info would be great.

[p8ntballjunkie7]

matrix-more accurate cuz it fires in closed bolt, lower bolt pressure w/ a trinity and bolt kit--- way less air-effiecient, but there are so many upgrades and mods now that you can get for them, they are not bad on gas anymore w/ them


vikings- a cheap, open bolt version of the excalibur--- still great guns, but chop more than a trix, the board accepts eyes... but, im not sure where 2 get 1 for it, i couldn't name any aftermarket stuph for it besides barrels and inline regs, great on air though! ive never shot one before, but since the trix fires in closed bolt position, and the viking fires in open bolt position, im sure the accuracy and range are below that of the trixy



if your just gunna buy the gun w/ out upgrading it, id say viking no competition, but if your willing to put $ into the gun, i would say matrix no competition, and get ff bolt kit when it comes out, and ff mod, among other mods, neither come w/ eyes, viking can get eyes(and needs them allot more than the trix) and trixs cant for the time get eyes, and considering that the breech detaches from the gun, i doubt that it will ever be able to have an eye, but w/ mods, trinity, and bolt kits, you'll never chop any ways. . .



so theres my 2 cents. . . now for your decision:eyes:

[Auctionjunkie!]

The Matrix is open bolt just as the Viking, Impulse, B2K and Angel are. Unless you have a bunch of extra money to spend on the gun you schoose why get anyone that NEEDS upgrades to function as it should initially. I give my vote and support for the Viking. The Matrices I've seen have chopped badly, needed massive amounts of air fills and lots of lubing to keep them playing and operating.

Dan

[p8ntballjunkie7]

ummm. . . ya know action junkie... if you werent so damn,ignorant, or just plain unknowledgable about what you talk about you would have figured out that matrixes...


LOAD IN OPEN BOLT----------FIRE IN CLOSED BOLT


Viking, Impulse, B2K and Angel


LOAD IN OPEN BOLT )))FIRE((( IN OPEN BOLT

and the people that would want to buy a marker and upgrade it immediatly, are the people that that like to shoot the great guns, not just the good guns... and if your not willing to lube and clean your marker after every game of play, then shoot a tippman your whole life and never expect to shoot good

[adrenalinejunky]

paintball junkie,

1. Action junkie is a certified AKA dealer, i think he would know better that you,

2. all guns fire from closed bolt. and if a gun fired from open bolt the it wouldn't be able to chop.

and i don't think having to upgrade is a big deal with him.

[ArtemisP8ntThro]

Dan wins cause his balls are bigger, cause he's the man, and because he can give his opinion in a grown-up way. He knows about paintball. Although, i did think matrixes were closed bolt. Even so.....He's not the Diablo moderator is he??? no! so who the hell cares!

[ZODIAC18]

I'm going to get a viking most likely within a month. How often do they chop? What is the average Bolt pressure (lpr)?

In closed bolt guns, the hammer and bolt are sepearate.

Closed bolt, they are connected.

Is the Matrix open or closed bolt? And if your going to put money into a matrix that already costs a bunch then get the Excalibur where you wouldn't have to put any money into, well maybe a barrel.

[Auctionjunkie!]

Originally posted by p8ntballjunkie7
ummm. . . ya know action junkie... if you werent so damn,ignorant, or just plain unknowledgable about what you talk about you would have figured out that matrixes...


LOAD IN OPEN BOLT----------FIRE IN CLOSED BOLT


Viking, Impulse, B2K and Angel


LOAD IN OPEN BOLT )))FIRE((( IN OPEN BOLT

and the people that would want to buy a marker and upgrade it immediatly, are the people that that like to shoot the great guns, not just the good guns... and if your not willing to lube and clean your marker after every game of play, then shoot a tippman your whole life and never expect to shoot good


Okay, How do I address this? How about this. You sir do not know what you are talking about.
Using your explanation all guns are closed bolt. (Firearms and paintball.) This is extremely incorrect. Open Bolt and Closed Bolt refer to the point at which the ball is when it is waiting on a trigger pull. I highly suggest you take a tech class in paintball markers as well as a course in firearms. A lot of the basic physics in firearms carry over to pnuematic guns. Of course basic and advanced physics also help a lot.
Having to clean and lube the internals of a gun during the day of play in order for the gun to work is ludicrous. I have worked on many Matrices and 9 times out of 10 the problem is the lack of lube.
If you want to compete with me on any paintball gun on a tech level I will. I do have to warn you that I do know a little bit about them. I have probably been playing paintball longer than you have been alive. I played my first game in June of 1985. My income is derived from paintball 100%. I have the job that you want. I live paintball.
Have a nice day and enjoy yourself. Paintball is a game for those who don't live it.

Dan

[cjpinz]

I have the job that you want. I live paintball.

damnit i wanna be you soooooooooo bad.:love:

[Sid]

Originally posted by Auctionjunkie!


Open Bolt and Closed Bolt refer to the point at which the ball is when it is waiting on a trigger pull.

Exactly. The air isn't released until the bolt is forward, but it's still an open-bolt. Many Matrix enthusiasts make this mistake, but it's just like the Angel. By the way, the Angel is also open-bolt, just in case you didn't know.

[Drew Cusick]

you guys are idiots...I own a Diablo Matrix and they fire from a CLOSED BOLT position. that is why they are accurate, like autocockers. [explicitve deleted].....



if u dont believe me check diablo's website and check yourself

[adrenalinejunky]

drew, all guns fire from closed bolt position(ok, with teh exception of teh nova's and epic, they don't have bolts) closed/open refers from to the position of the bolt at rest.

and another thing, there is no evidence to indicate that closed bolt vs. open bolt has a direct effect on accuracy, however, the design of most closed bolts often allows for reduced kick thearby increasng accuracy.

[Auctionjunkie!]

Originally posted by Drew Cusick
you guys are idiots...I own a Diablo Matrix and they fire from a CLOSED BOLT position. that is why they are accurate, like autocockers. [explicitve deleted].....



if u dont believe me check diablo's website and check yourself

So we're all wrong and you're right? You have many many more years of experience and knowledge than any of us? I seriously doubt that.

Admit it, you're wrong. It's not that hard to understand.

Dan

BTW you have 1 strike for swearing in a post. 3 strikes and you're banned.

[Drew Cusick]

"Fires during closed-mode of bolt's travel for superior accuracy. (Statistically, the most accurate marker ever made in the History of Paintball)."


I took this off of TheMatrixCenter.com

Rob Staudinger of Trauma own the company, if you dont believe me, then listen to him. I think he knows how his own gun works.

[ArtemisP8ntThro]

the point is... every single paintball marker ever made "fires during closed mode of bolt's travel" it's all for superior accuracy, because if it weren't that way, you would shoot paintballs out of your hopper lid, and i doubt they're very accurate.

[Auctionjunkie!]

Originally posted by Drew Cusick
"Fires during closed-mode of bolt's travel for superior accuracy. (Statistically, the most accurate marker ever made in the History of Paintball)."


I took this off of TheMatrixCenter.com

Rob Staudinger of Trauma own the company, if you dont believe me, then listen to him. I think he knows how his own gun works.

I presume he does as he correctly defines the firing procedure. However your interpretation is grossly incorrect. "Fires during closed-mode of bolt's travel..." This is not a statement that the gun is closed bolt. This states that as the ball is being pushed into the barrel the valve is opened. Just like Spyders, Tippmanns, Piranha's, Avengers, Angels, Bushmasters, Vikings, etc, etc.

I also disagree wiht the statement they are the most accurate marker made. I've seen many that are much much better, including a modified KP2 that was bolt action. But then that was in 1986.

Dan

[splatterpunx]

"Fires during closed-mode of bolt's travel for superior accuracy. (Statistically, the most accurate marker ever made in the History of Paintball)."

umm, that statement didnt come from rob it came from diablo and from richmond italia at that,know who that is smarty pants?

and its market hype tippman says the same thing about thier markers,its called marketing

gen-e sports owns the matrix and is in NY,not rob

rob is from the matrix center in NC



the defining difference between a matrix and a viking is not just the efficiency or looks or operation its going to be the quality of build,the viking/excal is 100 times the mfg. quality and tolerences of the matrix,and yea ive owned both to compare










edit: i didnt even read those mornonic posts before,i think those like drew living in a glass house should'nt be throwing stones
ie: your talking out your butt because your info is even incorrect

dan is a extremely valuble contributer to this site and the paintball community as a whole,there are only a handful of people that are in his position with his amount of knowledge
and volume of experience

feel lucky that he shares it here

[Hoplon]

It isn't exactly a true open or closed bolt marker. It's kind of a hybrid. I can't exactly remember the specifics of how it operates. It's strange, i remember that much.


Matrices are high maintenance compared to most guns.

When the owner takes the time to properly set them up they don't chop, they pinch. Just like your vikings do.

Now matrices come with the "necessary upgrades".


All in all i'd say they are a very nice gun for the money. I would by one if i had the cash to blow.

[splatterpunx]

its a spool valve,its not magical


the standard matrix does not come with a bolt kit or LPR


the lcd does


it will still chop,the lpr is still at a higher setting than a viking

[Hoplon]

Originally posted by splatterpunx
its a spool valve,its not magical


the standard matrix does not come with a bolt kit or LPR


the lcd does


it will still chop,the lpr is still at a higher setting than a viking

My friends doesn't chop. I stuck my finger in it. It bounces right back when it hit my finger. I don't know what he did to his.

[MINDofSIN]

Yeah, when at rest, you look down the feed tube and don't see the bolt...not too complicated is it?

One thing you guys can't argue is that the Matrix is much more popular and you can get service and parts easier. As a Canadian, if I bought a Viking and fried the board or something, I would have to pay A LOT just on shipping.

[splatterpunx]

One thing you guys can't argue is that the Matrix is much more popular and you can get service and parts easier. As a Canadian, if I bought a Viking and fried the board or something, I would have to pay A LOT just on shipping.

sure i can argue that,matrix and viking are sitting about the same popularity wise

and yea you can get service easy,just call AKA if your board fry's they send you a new one and no the shipping is on them,from canada posting a board to indiana wouldent cost but a few bux


for matrix gen-e will have you send the whole thing back,$$

[PolicarStudios]

I'd have to recommend the viking. My friend has an angel (which is pretty nice) and liked the viking he tried more; he said it had a really solid feel and the trigger was amazing.

The matrix I tried was nice; super quiet, okay trigger (honestly I'm not a big fan of it but it can be adjusted), but it cost tons to get all the upgrades on it. On top of that, it was broken a month later. The viking just seems like a better deal to me....but you can't lose with either, both nice.

And to settle the closed bolt/open bolt argument...the matrix is a spool valve, and the bolt stays closed a little longer than other markers during the firing cycle from what I hear. It still loads open bolt. All markers shoot "closed bolt" but only cockers, pumps, and shockers load in closed bolt position. I have no idea how this makes it more accurate, honestly I bet that it doesn't....if you want accuracy, get a good barrel and good paint.

[MINDofSIN]

Splatter, what about if I wanted my ROF changed or LPR lowered? Would AKA do that too? Seriously, the main reason I didn't want a Viking was because I didn't want to pay a lot/wait a long time if I screwed it up.

For Matrix service I would just have to drive 45 minutes.

The Cocker, Shocker, and Pumps aren't the only closed bolt markers out there. The Excal, All Palmers, etc are all closed bolt.

[splatterpunx]

uh yea aka will adjust the marker for free,same with any certified tech,or spilt the cost of a data cable with a friend

no big deal

and with the LPR its factory set only slightly higher than a matrix with a lpr so its not this big deal everyone makes it out to be

[Auctionjunkie!]

Originally posted by splatterpunx
uh yea aka will adjust the marker for free,same with any certified tech,or spilt the cost of a data cable with a friend

no big deal

and with the LPR its factory set only slightly higher than a matrix with a lpr so its not this big deal everyone makes it out to be

The new guns I've been building over the last few weeks have been set at 80 psi on the LPR with the HPR at 200 psi. If your chrono'd pressure is less than 200 psi your LPR pressure will be lower as well.

Dan

[p8ntballjunkie7]

ok, my bad, i still have my opinion, but i didnt realize that you were that knowelagable about paintball,and if you hadnt shown that youve been in the business for so long i would still think you were an idiot...but, i gotta listen when sum1 this experienced speaks up, so, im sure ur right, all in all, its not an important argument, but... i was a lil pissed off bout stuph that night and just wanted to start a fight... i did, and i got my *** kicked.... my apologies to actionjunkie

[Auctionjunkie!]

Originally posted by p8ntballjunkie7
ok, my bad, i still have my opinion, but i didnt realize that you were that knowelagable about paintball,and if you hadnt shown that youve been in the business for so long i would still think you were an idiot...but, i gotta listen when sum1 this experienced speaks up, so, im sure ur right, all in all, its not an important argument, but... i was a lil pissed off bout stuph that night and just wanted to start a fight... i did, and i got my *** kicked.... my apologies to actionjunkie

So that makes it all right? psshhhttt You and others need to listen when they ask a question. You still think I'm an idiot and that you are correct about the Matrix? Get a clue. I've probably forgotten more about paintball than you'll ever know.

All I will say is good luck and hopefully you will learn some basic information about physics and how it relates to the projection of a paintball.

Dan

[p8ntballjunkie7]

noooo, i said i dont think you are an idiot and i do think your right about the trix......... i didnt know that you were this knowledgable about 'ball and had been in it so long. i just thought you were another punk kid, but i was wrong and you were right.
if you stil wanna be pissed' at me then you have reason to and thats fine.


im just sayin it was my bad, i didnt know and shot my mouth off....im sorry you win

[splatterpunx]

hey man you seem to be relly full of your self and i get really sick when i read your post but there is one thing i agree with your post you really are a junkie YOU MAKE ME SICK MAN


god your a dumb*****

it's depressing that your allowed to breath and breed

[cockerflogging]

Originally posted by splatterpunx



god your a dumb*****

it's depressing that your allowed to breath and breed

shut up man and open your eyes this site is a bunch of girl friendless losers and there the *******es

[MINDofSIN]

Well, Dan is married and has kids.

I have a girlfriend.

You say Dan is full of himself yet you brag about making more money than him?

You're not making a good first impression here. I suggest you rethink your actions while you still can.

[splatterpunx]

shut up man and open your eyes this site is a bunch of girl friendless losers and there the *******es


im old and married,yes this site is populated by many shut in never gonna get any types,but your not talking to any of them


if your not one of those losers maybe youll act like a adult?

[Auctionjunkie!]

Originally posted by p8ntballjunkie7
noooo, i said i dont think you are an idiot and i do think your right about the trix......... i didnt know that you were this knowledgable about 'ball and had been in it so long. i just thought you were another punk kid, but i was wrong and you were right.
if you stil wanna be pissed' at me then you have reason to and thats fine.


im just sayin it was my bad, i didnt know and shot my mouth off....im sorry you win

It's not about winning, it's about respect. Not everyone on the forums is a smart mouth kid. Some of us spend a lot of time and energy trying to help people with their problems and questions. Look at a person's posts before you blast them.
Take care and play safe.

Dan

[cockerflogging]

hey i love seein you all get cheesed off no offense action man but the rest of you guys need to cool you burners geeeez

by the way im just a punk chill and dont get your panties in a bunch geeez!!!!


peace

[MINDofSIN]

Originally posted by cockerflogging


by the way im just a punk chill and dont get your panties in a bunch geeez!!!!


Hmm...and I had you pegged as an idiot. Go figure. :rolleyes:

[teamblackout]

I had a DD viking and traded it for an LCD matrix and i now think that was one of the biggest mistakes i have made in my paintball career. The viking just has a better, solid feel. I would DEFINATLY get a viking over a mtrix anyday. That is y i am trading the trix for another viking ;)

[cockerflogging]

Hmm...and I had you pegged as an idiot.

hey lady didn't mean to offend you

[adrenalinejunky]

ok, we can stop the arguing now, he's made his decision already.

[Angelir3CnC]

Dont you guys even know that open bolt vs closed bolt doesnt make a difference, if you dont believe me go checkout an ad on warpig.com somewhere prooving there isnt any difference. My god people are brainwashed about closed bolt being more accurate....Even if the closed bolt WAS a little more accurate I bet it would hardly make a difference.

[Angelir3CnC]

http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/paintguns/balistic/closedopen.shtml :D :D

[p8ntballjunkie7]

Originally posted by Auctionjunkie!


It's not about winning, it's about respect. Not everyone on the forums is a smart mouth kid. Some of us spend a lot of time and energy trying to help people with their problems and questions. Look at a person's posts before you blast them.
Take care and play safe.

Dan


my mistake, your right, you have my respect as well

[Moo Shoo H34d]

well this long, informative, bickering back and forth between a respected professional and a punk kid ended nicely, however i dont think anyone decided on what he needs to get, my vote, for one goes for the viking, simply because of the name backing it and the tedious work and time spent on each one, they are not slapped sloppily together in an assembly line full of immagrants (no offense to any foreign people/ethnic groups) in a facorty...... but then..... thats just me

[Angelir3CnC]

Yes I do reccomend the viking over the matrix, all ive heard is matrices are gas hogs.

[Auctionjunkie!]

Originally posted by p8ntballjunkie7



my mistake, your right, you have my respect as well

Thank you sir. In the end all we have is our integrity and the respect of others. Feel free to contact me with any questoins or concerns with AKA products.

Dan

[Moo Shoo H34d]

well this has been so informative that i think i want to trade my AVI (soon to come) for a viking (if i can find someone who wants to give one up)