Tournament Grade Guns

[Sharpshooter22]

I'm new to paintball, but I love it, and am thinking of forming and or joining a team and entering some amateur tournaments soon. However, some of my more experianced friends (some one teams themselves) say that my Spyder Sonix won't cut it. Any suggestions on what gun I should upgrade to? Any suggestions are good, but my cashflow is rather limited so no $700+ guns ok? Preferably something where the whole nine yards (Gun, gas, etc.) costs no more than $450 or $500.

[BourneKiller]

Step one - Decide which you like better:
Cocker
Mag (the best)
or "lower-end" electro, like an Impulse or BKO.

Check out those forums, shoot the guns if you can, and see what you like.

Then get back to us.

I would personally look into an RT mag w/ lvl 10 (so you can't chop).

[Jaster]

Evil Omen!! $450 and it's supposed to keep up. Might want to look into those.

[BourneKiller]

Originally posted by Jaster
Evil Omen!! $450 and it's supposed to keep up. Might want to look into those.

;) He said the whole nine yards, including the HPA tank, mask, pack... etc...

[Jaster]

What do you need all that stuff for?! :rolleyes:

Actually, he's got a marker. so I would assume he's got some stuff like a mask and a pack. :eyes: The Omen will work on CO2 right? He should have one of those too for his spyder. Ha! So there!! :D Come on sharpshooter tell me I'm right. I want to be one of the few that can say "Bourne was wrong"!! :eek:


If I'm wrong, do what he said and check out the Impulses.

[BourneKiller]

Originally posted by Jaster
Actually, he's got a marker. so I would assume he's got some stuff like a mask and a pack. :eyes: The Omen will work on CO2 right? He should have one of those too for his spyder. Ha! So there!! :D Come on sharpshooter tell me I'm right. I want to be one of the few that can say "Bourne was wrong"!! :eek:


If I'm wrong, do what he said and check out the Impulses.

Originally posted by Sharpshooter22
Preferably something where the whole nine yards (Gun, gas, etc.) costs no more than $450 or $500.

:eek: I'm just going by what he said. :eek:

[Sharpshooter22]

The Omen seems OK, though it is $450 without the other stuff (HPA etc). Where did you find it for $450 with everything? You're both right in some respects. I have a mask, 2 12oz CO2 cans, gloves. I dont have a pack or HPA though, and for the higher level guns I've hear HPA is a necessity. However, aren't Mag's like $800+ putting them way out of my price range? The BKOs are decent looking, but it seems like they only use HPA and would require me to buy a Drop forward/cradle as well. If limited to $450 total and you already had a mask and some CO2, what would you buy? Remeber, buying a HPA tank or a pack is factored into the $450 as well. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!

[Ebonclaw]

I would definatly look into an Impulse, you can run Co2 off of them fine, upgrade them to infinity, and it'll love HPA when you get it. You'd have the best performing gun on Co2 there is. Period. If you get a used one, it'll run around $300, leaving you $100 left for a HALO-B. If you want to bite the bullet ($17) for a 16 oz stub, 800-paintball has those. Simple and user-friendly, yet high end performance. Check out e-paintballoutlet's college pack, a GREAT buy:
www.e-paintballoutlet.com

Vertical reg Impulse with FREE tapeworm, $401 as well!

[BourneKiller]

Originally posted by Sharpshooter22
The Omen seems OK, though it is $450 without the other stuff (HPA etc). Where did you find it for $450 with everything? You're both right in some respects. I have a mask, 2 12oz CO2 cans, gloves. I dont have a pack or HPA though, and for the higher level guns I've hear HPA is a necessity. However, aren't Mag's like $800+ putting them way out of my price range? The BKOs are decent looking, but it seems like they only use HPA and would require me to buy a Drop forward/cradle as well. If limited to $450 total and you already had a mask and some CO2, what would you buy? Remeber, buying a HPA tank or a pack is factored into the $450 as well. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!

KA-CHING! I was right. :P Sorry Jaster.

Anyway, getting a used RT mag w/ lvl10 is quite possible, as I just picked up a lvl10 mag w/ an intelliframe for $350 shipped a coupla days ago! :eek:

Consider getting a 2k3 cocker, those are pretty good, and also, some sort of HPA tank, I'm suggesting a Center Flag tank. :)

[Sharpshooter22]

My problem is I really don't trust used guns, especially ones bought online. Once you spend your money, if the gun's junk, theres really nothing you can do. Do you know of anywhere I can trust for used equipment. If not, what less expensive guns wqould you suggest?

[BourneKiller]

Getting a 2k3 cocker would be safe. It's new.

[Sharpshooter22]

Where do you get used guns? I need to know of some safe places to buy them. Any suggestions?

[Ebonclaw]

Well...the best ay to judge a used gun's qualtiy if you can't inspect it would be to look at the seller's feedback from ITEMS HE SOLD. Pbreview has a feedback forum as well that you can run searches for.
A new Impulse is not out of your price range though! Hit the link I gave you, you won't find a higher end truly tourny level gun for your money.

[BourneKiller]

I'd go for the trading forums at PBR, as if anything goes wrong, we, the mods, have rights to check thier IP addresses and do all sorts of nasty stuff to any frauds and cheats. To quote Ebon
I told you, I'm quoting Ebon!
Don't think we can't touch you, we can

[Sharpshooter22]

Ok very cool. I'm flat broke at the moment, but I shall keep your advice in mind. I plan to get a new gun this summer, when I have a job again (summer only you see) Alas, a high - schooler's life is a poor one. I'll look into the impulse and the 2k3 Cockers then. My final question is, for generally the same price, which, in your professional opinion, is better (both got good reviews)

[Ebonclaw]

Personally, I prefer the Impulse, because you are flat out plain and simple going to have a higher rate of fire than a stock cocker. IN fact, electros are going to have better, faster, and shorter triggers with a higher RoF than nearly any mechanical cocker out there.
It's got the best regualtor on the market....and it comes stock! The Max-Flow was designed for Co2 and HPA as the highest performance regulator, and they don't kid about that. The Impulse is going to be much more simple than an autococker, as well as easier to troubleshoot. It's fully upgradable to a gun you could use at the World Cup, but even stock, I'd take it to the Cup with no questions. Stock, with a HALO, you can put out 12 BPS no problem. A stock cocker is going to (with a trigger job), net you 8, or maybe 10 if you have a REALLY REALLY fast trigger finger.

[Lopez17]

I second the vote on an Impulse. There are many deals to be had on a used one. The parts are relatively cheap if they need replaced and you can upgrade like crazy. They're nasty guns and some of the biggest welts I've ever had have come from Impy's. If you're looking to go a little more, start looking into Used Matrix's. I've seen some on Ebay for around $500 with hopper and 68/3000 N2. No guarantee's there though. Be patient and scour the net for a month or two for a good deal.

[Blacksheep]

The Shocker is a better gun in my opinion...

BKO over the Shocker although I hate the way they look.

No offense, but you will most likely not be vieing for top spots in NPPL/PSP/X-Ball/World Cups and therefore, you have little need in upgrading your system. At this point, if you are wondering what are good guns, etc and you want to play tourneys, your gun is not holding you back. If anything you are holding your gun's potential back (Bad Company).

I would suggest that you keep your Spyder and not get caught in hype and flash, learn to play the game first using your basics and all else will come with experiance.

By learning your gun and learning to play...well, $450.00 into playing will improve you far more than any gun upgrade will.

Maybe buy a cheap HPA tank and run your gun LP and an electro frame and you will be set.

And don't say that you can't be competetive with those mid-level guns...Tippmann Effect and Bad Compact are excellent, solid teams and they use "rentals" or "newbie guns". The reason they don't normally win is simple: few teams even use them!

[Shadow221]

I feel so alone...everyone's saying Impulse. Though I will argue to the death that a Mag is the best idea. For many reasons.

First off, price. New mags may be a bit pricey but for $350 you can get nice RT mag With Intelliframe and LX. Then you'd have a gun that will keep up with or outshoot ANY electro and can never chop.

Also, mags are super reliable. I've used mags for a long time and never had a problem that took more than 2 minutes and a parts kit to fix. Even of those problems I've only had 2 or 3, all of which were entirely my fault. I've seen mags sit in an attic for 8 years and still work like new, even without oil. But keep a mag well oiled and it'll never fail on you.

Add on to all that the incredible performance. Like I said earlier an RT mag will keep up with or outshoot any electro. Even with a classic valve mags are very fast. On my classic valved mag I get 11-12 bps. I had sound clips but angelfire deleted all my files. Ask around AGD, they heard the clips. Anyways, not only are mags fast but they're super consistant. Duplicate velocity shots are commonplace with mags(ie: cronoing 280, 280, 280, 280, 280...).

Then there's the seemingly insignificant details about mags that really make them very nice. For example,the barrel "threads". They're not exactly threads. There's a little metal pin inside the gun the goes into a groove on the barrel. Once the barrel is all the way in the gun, a 1/4 turn locks it in place. 1/4 turn and pull and the barrel pops right out. On a barrel with traditional threads it takes many turns to remove the barrel. With the mags twist lock threads, the barrel can be quickly removed and cleaned in game, taking only about 10 seconds tops. Also the AGD forum on this site. In my experience it's one of, if not the friendliest and most helpful forums. Also www.automags.org . A whole site dedicated entirely to Mags. Tom Kaye himself even posts on the message board there. Just browse there every once in a while and you'll always know the lastest mag news. And if you ever have a problem or a question they'll know the answer there guaranteed.

Lastly, with mags, there's very lkittle that needs upgrading, so you don't have to spend hundreds of dollars on regs and botls and hammers and whatnot like other guns to get it to perform the best it can. Trigger frame(Intelliframe, Z-grip, Y-grip, or hyperframe are the best), LX(level 10 bolt, no chops ever), good barrel, fast loader, nitro. Nothing else neccessary. A ReTro/ X-valve is nice but not neccesary.

Honestly, the ONLY bad thing I can think of about mags is gas efficiency. They're far from the worst, but far from the best aswell. I typically get 1000 or so shots off my 68/3000 which is more than enough.

[Sharpshooter22]

Wow, avid Mager...you present many good points. The thing I fear the most about intimidators is the ridiculous amount of money I need to spend to upgrade them. However, I'm more accustomed to electros and apparently the intimidator is a nice gun if it's getting so much hype. Any intimidator supporters wanna write in and say why their gun rules over the Automag?

[kazzieman]

I picked up a used classic mag off automags.org s/f body, 14' boomie, LX, and 68/3000 tank for $375 shipped. They go for a decent priced used and are very rugged and reliable. Unless the seller is a complete moron and can't tell an angel from a talon then there is a good chance it will be in good working condition.

[BourneKiller]

One of my friends also got a deal like that. However, his only problem was that the wire ball detent in his barrel would slice open the balls. Apparently the seller didn't wanna deal w/ it, so he didn't fix it. We popped a new rubber/plastic detent in for like $2 and BAM. Good as new!

[Shadow221]

Originally posted by kazzieman
I picked up a used classic mag off automags.org s/f body, 14' boomie, LX, and 68/3000 tank for $375 shipped. They go for a decent priced used and are very rugged and reliable. Unless the seller is a complete moron and can't tell an angel from a talon then there is a good chance it will be in good working condition.
You got ripped off. Dude, that gun seriously shouldn't have sold for more than $300 if even that. That's the price a tricked out RT would go for. Even with the tank that's not a good deal at all.

[Jaster]

Damn you Bourne!! You'll be wrong someday!!! j/k :D

Sharpshooter, that price was not with hpa. Just the gun. I think you'll be a bit hard pressed to be able to get both a marker and HPA for under $450. Personally I think you should think about the Impy. Runs on co2. I think at this point that's the way to go. I hate used stuff too. You just never know the condition of it or if it was taken care of. Or you could save longer.

[Shadow221]

Originally posted by Jaster
I hate used stuff too. You just never know the condition of it or if it was taken care of. Or you could save longer.
That's the beauty of mags. They don't need taking care of. With a $20 parts kit(a good investment on a new or used mag)you can fix ANY problems you'll come across. regular oiling should prevent most problems. Some problems however, such as a worn out bolt spring, are unavoidable but fixable by a parts kit.

And which price is without a tank? I've seen used mag packages that include revy, nitro, and other goodies for under $300. They're actually quite common.

[Jaster]

That's true with all things. Regular maintenance will prevent most issues other then wear and tear. But when you get something used and they tell you it's in great shape and works perfect and you drop your hard earned cash on it the last thing you want to do is go spend MORE $$$ on it just to make it work. Especially when you're on a tight budget. You might have to wait a while to get the cash to spend on parts. Besides, when you get a new marker you want to use it all weekend not fix it all weekend. IMO.

[kazzieman]

Originally posted by Shadow221

You got ripped off. Dude, that gun seriously shouldn't have sold for more than $300 if even that. That's the price a tricked out RT would go for. Even with the tank that's not a good deal at all.

I looked around for weeks on automags.org, here, and ebay and it was the best deal I could find. I don't see how I got ripped off but thats your opinion not mine. I was gonna buy a cocker but bought this mag with tank and all for what I cocker would have cost me.

[magsrule]

that woulda been a rip off 3 years ago, but with the rise of the lvl 10, x-mag, and the new Y-grip, AGD has been put back in the spot light. Thus, resale has risen.

I'm not a fan of ram-bolts, especially since they are prtty much your spyder sonix with electro internals.

mags are nice, but factor in the cost of HPA cuz they absolutely hate co2.

[Sharpshooter22]

Hey all -
Just wanted to say that I've just picked up a Mag 68 classic powerfeed for $200 on E-bay. In that same $200 I got it with an X-chamber, remote, pack, 3 speed tubes, 2 CO2 cans, an anti-fog mask, a revy, and a 12" after market barrel. Upon firing it (and using it on the field) I help up pretty well against the cockers and BKOs. Hell, even if the design is 10 years old, it's obviously good enough to stick around, and the world now has a new Mag worshiper!

[CKYshane]

Shadow is prefectly right... except for the "Hyperframe" thing. Hyperframes suck. Intelliframe or stock.

[Shadow221]

Originally posted by CKYshane
Shadow is prefectly right... except for the "Hyperframe" thing. Hyperframes suck. Intelliframe or stock.
They don't suck. They have a very very nice trigger pull. They're just a bit problematic on occasion.

Sharpshooter, glad to hear you choose the mag.:D