Attention

[Savior]

How come autocockers and mags are so much more accurate then spyders? I mean people say that open and closed bolt dosn't make a difference and all...

[unknown]

open and closed bolt DOES make a difference, and there are a few reasons cockers have better range and ROF over spyders..

Obviously, the 'cocker fires faster, we know this much..
Now the fact that it is closed bolt makes a big difference. In a spyder, The bolt rams against the ball, distorting it greatly. The ball becomes more of an oval or hell, who knows what, and has until the end of the barrel to straighten itself out again. On a spyder, this sometimes does not happen, and it wobbles a lot, and carries less force because of the wobble. On a 'cocker, the air is hitting the ball, which does NOT make it distort, that way it flies round and true the whole way, farther, and more accurate. .. .that simple.

-correct me if im wrong here.

[Magadeth]

I couldn't disagree more. The reason the higher end guns are more accurate is consistency. All things being equal, if you used the same paint/barrel combination in different guns and chrono them to the same fps. the range and accuracy should be identical. Where low end guns come up short is in maintaining an exact pressure in the gun. pressure variations will cause some balls to travel farther than others, meaning that downrange, thier impact points will differ.

My friend has a spyder that he has tricked out, and he is very familiar with the trigger. Many people who play against him for the first time accuse him of having full auto. His trigger finger is that fast. I play with a mag and am also quite fast, but if you give him my gun or vice versa rof slows down considerably as we struggle with an unfamiliar trigger pull.

Cockers and mags do not "fire faster". Like any other semi-automatic, they fire when you pull the trigger. If you do a nice trigger job on a tippman the same rate of fire can easily be obtained by an experienced shooter. If one gun has a 2lb trigger pull and another has a 5lb trigger pull, it will be easier to achieve a high rate of fire with the lighter trigger, but this has nothing to do with the action of the gun.

no paintgun has better range than any other paintgun.(the flatline barrel is the exception, it uses aerodynamic principles to creat lift as the ball flys) if any two guns fire a shot at 300 fps and at the same tragetory the balls will travel the same distance. Its physics. A cocker is better because if you set it to 300 thats what you should get, every shot. A stock spyder you could fire a string of shots and see 300, 280, 305 275, 298fps. Obviously, these balls are not going to land in the same spot.

I hope this helped clear things up.

[unknown]

range and accuracy SHOULDN'T be identical.. i just explained it up there, if the ball is warped it just wont shoot as good or far.

[Magadeth]

Ive seen plenty of unbroken paintballs on the field after games and have never noticed any markings from a bolt on any of them. Unless you are using a pathetically low grade of paint, but even then I still dont buy your theory at all. No offense meant to you personally, but I think you are buying into a paintball myth.

According to your theory my Minimag should be a prime canidate for this as the bolt shoves the paintball into the breach of the barrel with each shot fired. I have incredible consistencey and can put ball on ball at 50+ yds. Sorry but it just doesn't happen that way.

If you are experienceing alot of flyers, try playing around with different paint and barrel combinations. If the barrel is to wide for the paint you use, the paint will bounce in the barrel and end up flying of in a random, nonstraight direction. This is why flatlines are not particularly accurate.the increased barrel diameter required to allow the ball to roll down the barrel makes them susceptible to ball bounce.

Alternately if the barrel is to tight you will experience increased breakage and ball deformity as the paintball is squeezed down the barrel. This can result in an erratic knuckleball sort of flight path.

As far as range goes two objects with identical mass, size, and tragectory will travel the same distance every time with the only variable being wind. Theres just no getting around that.

In closing I think you need a different barrel, or use properly sized paint.

[paintballer56]

they are just better guns, dont ask me why

[Silent Knight]

obviously this is going to tun into a flame war between cocker owners, and cocker owner wanna b's! so what the guy before me said is right.

THEY JUST ARE!!!!!

let's just leave it at that.

[Magadeth]

I'm not trying to flame anyone or put anyone down, sorry if I came across that way. I was merely tring to clear up a few misconceptions, and maybe save someone from wasting a lot of money on useless stuff IMO almost any paintball gun can be 'fixed' with a good barrel and a reg. I do not own a cocker(check my sig) and i kinda think they are way to finicky for the price. Spending $500 on a gun and then another $500 on aftermarket stuff so you can 'shoot faster' seems kinda silly to me when you could just polish your trigger and snip a spring and achieve the same results.

Edited to say DONT TRY THIS IF YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING YOU COULD MESS UP YOUR GUN!

[in trauma]

Originally posted by Magadeth

Cockers and mags do not "fire faster". Like any other semi-automatic, they fire when you pull the trigger. If you do a nice trigger job on a tippman the same rate of fire can easily be obtained by an experienced shooter. If one gun has a 2lb trigger pull and another has a 5lb trigger pull, it will be easier to achieve a high rate of fire with the lighter trigger, but this has nothing to do with the action of the gun.


I did a trigger job to my 98 and i have yet to see acocker fire as fast as i can

A model 98 will always have a higher rate of fire of a cocker because the the cocker has 3 movements per cycle and the model 98 has 2

my gun fireing
http;//www.blueridge.net/~pmfani/12bps.wav

[filasophikal]

Open bolt vs. closed bolt... now that's a myth... its really all in the player and the marker. Well, the player, just needs to hold the marker in a tight position, and aim. The marker needs to have as little or no kick at all. mags and cockers as well as all high end electro/ and non electros have little to no kick at all... meaning more accurate shots. meaning less flajectory in shots. while, spyders have so much kick the accuracy will be diminished over time.

[elTwitcho]

Ooooh, I get to dispute 2 myths in one thread. Ok, first off, the whole "blt pushing the ball hard" thing is well... hippy BS. A paintball does not wobble, it isnt a water ballon, it has a hard shell that is very brittle. It doesnt bend, it cracks. If the bolt hit the ball hard enough to distort the shape it would break the ball. Also, what do you think puts more stress on the ball? The bolt hitting it, or the 200 pounds of pressure (on a LP gun no less, can be as high as 750 pounds) hitting the ball? Obviously the air is going to put a heck of alot more force into the ball than the bolt will, and even closed bolt guns have to push the ball with air. As for the Tippman having less moving parts therefore cycles faster, this doesnt make alot of sense. Assume the cocker pulls releases the sear and the hammer goes forward in 5 ms, then the backblock moves backwards recocking the hammer and opening the breech, lets say another 5ms, then the backblock slams forward closing the breech 5 ms again. That would give you 15 ms as the length of time it takes a cocker to fire. These actual values are so far off it isnt funny, but I'm proving a point. So the tippman releases the hammer and it hits the valve 15 ms, then it recocks, 10 ms. That's 25 ms, longer than the cocker's time of 15. No, these values are insanely wrong of course, but I'm ilustrating a point, number of movements means nothing, it's how fast those movements go that counts. On a side note, the cockers bolt pressure can be lowered so low that you cant chop, this is impossible with a tippman, so theoretically, the cocker has a higher useable rate of fire.

[Magadeth]

Thats a custom cocker your talking about though, older stock cockers do have a kind of low cyclic rate, resulting in the chopped ball effect if you can outshoot the action of the gun. Hence the whole learn the trigger thing with cockers.

[krasher]

See that thing on the front? Its an LPR. Guess what? It can be adjusted.

[in trauma]

i am sick of people thinking that cockers are the greatest guns ever!!!

and am also sick of people thinking a cocker is the only gun that can get over 4bps!!!

any cun get keep up with a cocker rate of fire except for pumps!!

[Magadeth]

Originally posted by krasher
See that thing on the front? Its an LPR. Guess what? It can be adjusted.
Do older cockers have that? I could swear my buddies didn't. correct me if I am wrong, But it seemed like it was set at the factorie and not adjustable. I am a mag guy myself and have not had to deal with many of the cocker problems, aside from getting friends guns playable so they could get back on the field.