Hands off, kid!!

[Trench Raider]

Ok, this story involves an airsoft gun, but the issue it raises applies to paintball as well. (in fact I have seen this sort of thing happen with high-end gear in the past)

A couple of weeks ago I was playing airsoft at Texas Paintball in Austin. (they let us co-exist with the PBers there...see my write up on it in the reviews section..) Before the game several of us were in the staging area getting ready for our first game. While using the chronny my gun started acting up, so a friend who is far more knowledgable than I when it comes to the internal workings on an aeg started to tear it down to see what the problem was. (thankfully I simply had a loose spring in the gear box...so it was back up in no time)

While he worked on my gun, he set his own weapon down on the table beside him. The gun he brought this day was a very nice looking M60. Now such a gun naturally attracted alot of attention from the paintballers. Our unusual guns and gear do sometimes bring curious PB players with questions, but a big honking machinegun all the more. One of the crowd of onlookers was a kid about 12-14 years old

He started asking the usual questions about the gun and my friend tried to be polite while paying attention to my opened-up gear box. Then the kid asked "can I hold it?". My friend of course said, "I've rather you not. I'm sorry" and went back to his work. This kid looked at the M60 for a few more moments and then reached out and lifted the butt of the weapon off the table. (it was sitting upright with the bipod deployed)

I was horrified. I glared at him and said "I could have sworn he said no." The kid let go of the gun and the butt dropped to the table with a loud bang. He then ran off.

I looked around to see if I could find someone superivising this kid, but never could find anyone.

Do kids these days have no respect for property or the wishes of an adult? Why is it that paintball fields seem to be a weekend substitute for a day care at times?

Comments?

"Trench Raider"
http://www.angelfire.com/scary/trench_raider/kittens.jpg

[i like tictacs]

It's just a typical 14 year old spoiled kid, next time you see him give him a nice slap upside the head.

[Incube]

....? No offense...But I dont see the point of you posting airsoft stuff in a pb forum...I am sure there are plenty of Airsoft forusm that would love you to post there...

[Trench Raider]

Slap him?
I'm in my 30s. You really want me to go to jail, don't you? ;)

Incube....you really are dense, aren't you? Go back and read the first paragraph of my post. If the gun in the story had been an "angel" or an "automag" rtaher than a "Top M60 aeg" the point would have been the same.

"Trench Raider"
http://www.angelfire.com/scary/trench_raider/kittens.jpg

[Cadet2005]

Actually, the same ideas apply to real guns, airsoft and paintball guns. If you look at my setup you will see it resembles somewhat an M4 carbine...that means a lot of younger guys get a curious eye at the field. Now I don't mind someone handling my gun so long as I am watching them and they treat it with something resembing professionalism, much like I handle it. A couple of times I have told kids no only to see them going towards it and trying to pick it up while I am chatting at somebody. Thankfully the refs usually look out for everybody's stuff and they quickly get on them about it, but once or twice I have to walk over and give the kid the look of "how do you want to die today" look. It is part of being a kid, which is why I usually let it go, the desire to explore and with "realistic-like" guns, they usually have their eyes go wide from the human desire, as Charles ****ens said, to hunt which is deeply implanted in the human breast. My recommendation is rather than scaring him, you should have controlled the barrel smoothly, that is what I do. I will take the barrel and give him the look, that way if he drops it I have control of the gun and no fear of an accidental discharge. But ultimately, it is your responsibility as well to keep an eye on your gear.

[Incube]

Originally posted by Trench Raider
Slap him?
I'm in my 30s. You really want me to go to jail, don't you? ;)

Incube....you really are dense, aren't you? Go back and read the first paragraph of my post. If the gun in the story had been an "angel" or an "automag" rtaher than a "Top M60 aeg" the point would have been the same.

"Trench Raider"

I did read it....But the gun wasnt..I am just saying You would get a better Response form other airsoft players....

[Trench Raider]

It is part of being a kid, which is why I usually let it go,

Actually it's part of being a poorly raised kid. When I was a child, I was taught to respect the property of other and to do what adults said. However I have seen this sort of thing more and more as the years go by.
I was also taught not to talk to and be leery of strangers. However I constantly see small children breaking this simple rule.

I can't help but think proper parenting is becoming a lost skill.

"Trench Raider"
http://www.angelfire.com/scary/trench_raider/kittens.jpg

[Coal-Cracker]

Originally posted by Trench Raider


Actually it's part of being a poorly raised kid. When I was a child, I was taught to respect the property of other and to do what adults said. However I have seen this sort of thing more and more as the years go by.
I was also taught not to talk to and be leery of strangers. However I constantly see small children breaking this simple rule.

I can't help but think proper parenting is becoming a lost skill.

"Trench Raider"


Oh come on now Trench Raider, you can't actually expect parents to take the time to raise their children correctly. That takes time and patience. It may interfere with "American Idol" or "Friends".

[Incube]

all little kid now adaysare brats, Me and my friends were walking down the road and 2 of em came up and cursed us out

[Alexi1337]

Hit the kid and say someone else did it;)


Seriously though, I'm 17 and I couldn't imagine grabbing someones gun, ESPECIALLY if they just said not to. I mean, that's like the rudest thing you can do. It would be like some kid asking to drive my truck, then jumping into the drivers seat even though I said no.

[amzng_spyderman]

if some brat touched my baby after i told him not to, i'd shoot him. point blank. several times.

[Cadet2005]

Actually, it depends on the situation...anybody take note what his friend said? "I'd rather you not", now when I was a kid that meant you lay a hand on it dad's gonna take you outside where there are no witnesses if you know what I mean, but with a heavy reliance on teachers and television to parent, that sounds like an invitation such as "you're choice, but I don't think you should"...no excuse, but he opened the door for the kid's inquiry and the kid took it...communication gap.

But again, your friend and you were responsible, you saw him going for it you should have kept an eye on your key and stopped him before he tried to grab the gear, that to me is the part that makes me feel there is equal blame all around.

[Blacksheep]

Cadet's right, you are responsible for your gear, you check to make sure that it works, that it's there, and that nobody, er, you know what'ed with it.

Even with that technical stuff Cadet, "I'd rather you not" means that it is your wish that they not touch your stuff and they should have respected that.

All comes down to RESPECT and if people gave it and had it, there'd be no problems in the world.

[Cadet2005]

That's true, one thing to consider is if your friend belittled him like he was a little boy, then that might have insulted the kid in which his reaction is standard procedure for a human being. It really depends on tone and so forth whether the kid was just being a jerk or if he felt he had been shunned because somebody thought he was too little...still, I stand by what I said: you need to stop him next time, take preventive action not responsive action.

[Zujin]

parents need to beat their kids more often...just for the heck of it.

[Trench Raider]

That's true, one thing to consider is if your friend belittled him like he was a little boy, then that might have insulted the kid in which his reaction is standard procedure for a human being. It really depends on tone and so forth whether the kid was just being a jerk or if he felt he had been shunned because somebody thought he was too little...still, I stand by what I said: you need to stop him next time, take preventive action not responsive action

I'm going to have to take issue with this.

In the case I cited, my friend spoke to the kid in a very neutral tone. If anything he may have sounded distant as he was busy.
Having said this, what or how it was said is not a mitigating circumstance that excuses bad behavior. My buddy could have talked smack to him and told him "bugger off kid" and there still would not have been an excuse for him to handle other people's property. When you are a child, you do as you are told. Period. Full stop.

As for proactive vs. reactive responses, there was a proactive response. He was told he could not touch the gun. Any reasonable person would have recognized that the rely denied permission to pick up the gun. I can only interpret the kid's actions as being a willful defiance of an adult's will.

And yes, I stopped him just as soon as I saw what was going on.

I actually kind of resent that my buddy and I are being considered partially responsible for the actions of a mis-behaving child.

"Trench Raider"
http://www.angelfire.com/scary/trench_raider/kittens.jpg

[Blacksheep]

I understand where you are coming from, but Cadet isn't defending the kid, he simply got so lost in his speech that he didn't explain things quite right (you must understand, Army folk have a tendancy to do that, they got lot'sa air but can't make a point when they need to).

But in all seriuosness, Cadet is explaining why the kid might've reacted the way he did and giving you suggestions on how to work better with people, I don't think he's excusing his actions or pointing fingers at anyone.

[woolf]

and the moral of the story is dont read really long posts by airsoft players who kill kittens

[Trench Raider]

You think that was a "really long post"?

Jeez people are getting more and more lazy when it xomes to reading.

"Trench Raider"

http://www.angelfire.com/scary/trench_raider/kittens.jpg

[Micewheelz72]

I get that all the time with my phantom. Some kid asked if he could hold it, I said "Give me a minute, i just want to wipe it down first." I turned around to get a rag, and when i turned back, he was already aiming it at things. I about decked the kid. Instead i said "You wanna put that down now, please?"

oh and trench raider, I like the way you handled the situation in the airsoft thread. Its good to someone like you around.

[The Kampfer]

Originally posted by Micewheelz72
oh and trench raider, I like the way you handled the situation in the airsoft thread. Its good to someone like you around.
AGREE.

[E r y k]

if i was the kid i would of touched it myself... kids are curious... thats their nature.

if you were a kid and you saw a replica of a gun sitting there, i know you would be very interested. but at least the kid asked and not just picked it up in the first place...

we'll the more i type, the more i think that the kid was wrong. i was nice of him to ask and when you guys said no, to walk away, but he came back which was not nice...

next time, guard the gun with your life if you dont want a kid touching it.

[FalloutMan]

kids that age think they are grown up and can do whatever they want then they get to my age(16) and realize they were idiotic then we become adults...... i suppose

telling the kid to go blow off makes it worse because they think the world is for them only. :rolleyes:

[Cadet2005]

Already I will spell this out quickly (sometimes being a history major has its drawbacks...we get long-winded).

1) You are right, the kids should have known better but I can understand what he was thinking...that is why I said "EQUAL BLAME"...make sure you read everything as is stated and don't try and read between lines.

2) If you were paying attention to a loaded gun (real, paintball, etc) you would have noticed his actions moving closer to it and could have jumped on it sooner. Prevention is paramount...come on, SOP says that you never leave a gun unobserved unless you are intending for something to happen...to be frank, your friend should have been positioned so that his gun was in plain view the entire time, that was bad gun (I would say firearm/weapon but I would be flamed quickly) control discipline by all accounts, therefore you guys do have some responsibility in the matter.

You want to post your thoughts that is cool, but you try and censor our own opinions, then you are no better than that kid hearing only what he wanted to hear...does that make more sense now?

[Trench Raider]

You are right, the kids should have known better but I can understand what he was thinking...that is why I said "EQUAL BLAME"..

Wrong.

What happened to responsibility for one's actions? The person who commits the act is the one to blame. I don't care if we had walked away and left the gun with no supervision at all, touching someone's property without proper permission is wrong. Period. No exceptions.

I still blame bad parenting on this. I NEVER would have done something like that when I was a child. Please don't give me that "kids will be kids" crap.


If you were paying attention to a loaded gun (real, paintball, etc) you would have noticed his actions moving closer to it and could have jumped on it sooner

Let me describe a little closer what happened. The gun was not loaded as we were in the staging area. It was sitting two foot from our workstation under direct supervision. The kid in question reached out and grabbed it before I could stop him. We are only talking about seconds here. Aside from actually holding onto the weapon the whole time I don't see how it could have gone down differently.

You want to post your thoughts that is cool, but you try and censor our own opinions, then you are no better than that kid hearing only what he wanted to hear

Please don't atribute actions and motives to me that are not there. I don't want to censor your opinions. I just take exception to a few of your conclusions.

of course this is all just my opinion. Others are entitled to be wrong... :D

"Trench Raider"
http://www.angelfire.com/scary/trench_raider/kittens.jpg

[Blacksheep]

I personally believe in responability for one's actions, Cadet, he has you there, there is no excuse for what the kid did. But I feel it was also your responability to keep an eye on the kid...

First rule when handling weapons: treat your gun as if it were loaded at all times (or was it only aim at what you intend to kill or keep the finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot...it's all blurred now, but anyway...). If your weapon is in a position where it can be taken, touched, or discharged, then it is YOUR responability, not the kids, even though he was wrong to touch it. So, if you need to hold it at all times like I do my weapon or marker, then that's what you do. Period. No exceptions.

When Cadet says equal blame, he's not saying that you are wrong, what he means is that you made a misake in leaving your weapon in a position where it could be handled by someone. He's not saying you were in the wrong. The kid is wrong for touching your gun, but you were not in control of your weapon/replica/gear. (At least I think that's what Cadet means, I've learned to interpurt some of his stuff).

[E r y k]

whats happend has happend. whats done is done.

just get over it... you cant do anything about it.












unless, you could time travel:D

[tonysk83]

Cadet...can you ever post in a thread where you aren't arguing and making long paragraphs, just leave it alone....geez

[heyheyhey]

30's? slap him and lie about ur age :devil:

although i do pick up my friends angel and rip through the hopper ocasionally......

[thepeashooter]

ya, Cadet you lost this one... The kid screwed up, and it was the kids fault.
But don't get mad at the kid, hes just a kid, hes curious, maybe you just don't remember being that age and seeing something you wanted to touch but they said you cant (obviously because how young you are)...It really does belittle you and make you feel like crap....Just next-time let him see it and play with it just get ur friend or you to supervise it if you don't trust them that much





Oh ya never blame the parents for it, never... Because you don't know whats going on in this kids life. I know many kids who have awesome parents who have gone astray and many kids with "crappy" parents who are really good.

[Dancing racoon]

Its the kids fault!

[Caleb98]

yeah...this one time there was this guy named trench raider and he posted an Airsoft forum in a Paintball forum and we didin't like it or him...So trench raider go raid your trenches.

and post your airsoft crap in an airsoft web site!

[Trench Raider]

and post your airsoft crap in an airsoft web site!

Ahh good ol' PBreview. Full of mental giants as usual!

The point of my post goes beyond the game I was there playing. I was at a paintball field and the kid was a paintball player. The type of gun he picked up without permission doesn't really matter to the point of my post.

Now how hard is that?

"Trench Raider"
http://www.angelfire.com/scary/trench_raider/kittens.jpg

[Deathstalker]

Trench Raider, if you spend a little more time on these forums, one thing you'll quickly realize is many, if not most, of the users are very young. Sometimes, you really have to dumb down your concept to get through to the kiddies. Apparently, you're too smart for your own good.;)

I never buy the "kids will act like kids" routine because I was a kid once, and my parents properly raised me to treat people AND THEIR BELONGINGS with the same respect with which I want to be treated.

Unfortunately, this problem still keeps cropping up, even within the adult population. My boss has a tendency to come into my office and touch some of my things. What REALLY bugs me about this is I know for a fact he doesn't wash his hands after using the men's room. I keep a stash of alcohol pads and Purell to use after he leaves.

[punkerx1]

ya that pisses me off. me and my friend were reffing and my friend brought his pgp for slaps and claps, and when we were done there was this annoying 10-12 year old that was by all of us, and he kept asking stupid questions about it. hes like "if i knew u had that i would of played with it today" and kept grabbing it and trowing it in the air like a cowboy. i almost hit him and it wasnt even my gun.:mad:

[3Fingered Jack]

Originally posted by Deathstalker
Unfortunately, this problem still keeps cropping up, even within the adult population. My boss has a tendency to come into my office and touch some of my things. What REALLY bugs me about this is I know for a fact he doesn't wash his hands after using the men's room. I keep a stash of alcohol pads and Purell to use after he leaves.

:laugh:

Ooooooaaahahahahahahaha

[slipknot]

this post really pissed me off, alright i don't mind that you call that kid stupid and a brat and stuff but you just say that ALL kids are stupid *******es that can't do anything right and break whatever they touch and never listen and are spoiled brats and other stuff like that listen here i'm only 13 and i'm not like that ok i'm not a spoiled brat and wouldn't touch your stuff after you told me not to so don't just say every kid is the same alright?

[FalloutMan]

Originally posted by slipknot
this post really pissed me off, alright i don't mind that you call that kid stupid and a brat and stuff but you just say that ALL kids are stupid *******es that can't do anything right and break whatever they touch and never listen and are spoiled brats and other stuff like that listen here i'm only 13 and i'm not like that ok i'm not a spoiled brat and wouldn't touch your stuff after you told me not to so don't just say every kid is the same alright?


your respons makes you sound like a stupid brat that your trying to avoid.

[Trench Raider]

Slipknot, there are exeptions to every rule.
However I think all the adults here would agree that many parents today do not instill the proper values and as a result today's children are less well behaved than those of my generation.

Always remember that every stereotype has some truth to it if you dig deep enough.

"Trench Raider"
http://www.angelfire.com/scary/trench_raider/kittens.jpg

[PMI_Guy]

Sheesh, people! The kid touched the gun when the guy asked him not to, the kid was in the wrong!

[heyheyhey]

through reading this thread again, i have made a discovery......



more than half of the people here are under 7 years of age, or act exactly like it:rolleyes:

plz people, act your age, unless of course, you ARE under 7:eyes:

[3Fingered Jack]

You want to make judgements on a whole generation based on one kid's actions? Ok, cool, but then let me make one on your generation based off your thoughts.

Your generation is a bunch of cynical pricks.

:D

[p8ntball1016]

Originally posted by 3Fingered Jack
You want to make judgements on a whole generation based on one kid's actions? Ok, cool, but then let me make one on your generation based off your thoughts.

Your generation is a bunch of cynical pricks.

:D

i agree

[Zujin]

ahh nothing like good ol' white middle America...

[3Fingered Jack]

Ahh hide behind your veil of anonymity and critique the world on an online forum.

[Trench Raider]

You want to make judgements on a whole generation based on one kid's actions? Ok, cool, but then let me make one on your generation based off your thoughts Your generation is a bunch of cynical pricks

It's hard to believe the polite and thoughtful PM that I just got is from the same guy who posted the above spew... :rolleyes:

I'm not basing my judgement on the actions of one idiot and you are drawing a faulty conclusion if you assume that I am. I have seen this sort of behavior time and again. (both in PB and other activities) This kid's behavior only serves to reinforce my conclusions. (IE that today's children are less well behaved than earlier generations and that parenting skills have gone out the window)

and.....
ahh nothing like good ol' white middle America...

Yup. Gotta love it. The foundation upon which our nation and it's values are built. (no, if you have to ask I am not being sarcastic)

"Trench Raider"
http://www.angelfire.com/scary/trench_raider/kittens.jpg

[spyderlover321]

Wow that kid was stupid. Im 13 and i would never even think of touching sombody elses airsoft/marker if i didn't have permition. If I did it I would have expected to be beaten into a pulp. Its not just a "kids nature". All it is is one really really stupid kid whose parents never bothered to be parents. Youi should have slugged him.

[3Fingered Jack]

Originally posted by Trench Raider
[B]

It's hard to believe the polite and thoughtful PM that I just got is from the same guy who posted the above spew... :rolleyes:

I'm not basing my judgement on the actions of one idiot and you are drawing a faulty conclusion if you assume that I am. I have seen this sort of behavior time and again. (both in PB and other activities) This kid's behavior only serves to reinforce my conclusions. (IE that today's children are less well behaved than earlier generations and that parenting skills have gone out the window)



Eheh, I don't want to ruin my good first impression with you. Sorry, that post wasn't exactly meant to be ill-natured (hence the smiley). If you have seen kids act like this repeatedly though, ok, fair enough, you're entitled to your opinions. I don't know why I felt the need to post that (which was before I PMed you by the way), but it just seemed like you were basing your judgements off that one kid's actions. My post was a tad thickheaded I admit, but hell, I was tired. Sorry for coming off as a ****head.

[PMI_Guy]

i thought Magnus closed this.....:confused:
anyway, stop flaming.
Chalies angels 2 looks awesome.
back to the point, the kid was in the wrong.

[3Fingered Jack]

Who's flaming? Yeah, I called his generation pricks, but I admitted I was wrong for doing so.

[Cadet2005]

Normally, I would let this die, but I am going to attempt to give you guys one more time a clear-cut understanding of my viewpoint: you don't like it, tough, this has gone a bit far as it is but I do have the right to defend my stance...

A) I agree, THE KID GOOFED, but I don't care if your gun was disassembled, you always need to knwo where it is...that is called responsibility. Trust me, somebody wants to touch my Mauser, M16, or my paintball gun and I say no, they aren't coming within an inch without me knowing it. Maybe I am good at reading people, I don't know, but if it can go wrong it will so I plan accordingly...you trusted too much, learn from it but understand that because you didn't think the possibilities through, you goofed as well.

B) Don't like long paragraphs, tough, it is called rhetoric. I have been writing arguments more often than half of you probably take a leak. You flame me about it that's your business, I just hope you have the courage to do it in PMs where it doesn't clog up space for more intellectual discussion such as responsibility.

C) This started off well without the flaming for the airsoft bit, which was cool, but now it started getting openly hostile. Come on guys, show a little more maturity...learn to debate a bit or something I don't care, just remember that not all of us like the same words.

I am done here, I stand by what I said and I am not budging...any further personal discussion/flaming can be directed to me via PM...my box is always open.

[commandman10]

kids dumb for touching your stuff. Some parents dont raise their kids right and some do.