freezin up my 98........

[bulletbill]

i got a tippy 98 custom and have a question about it freezing up. I run c02 20oz tank and when i go hard on the trigger(as fast as it will go) for sustained periods my gun freezes hard. The vert adapter and expansion chamber are like ice, the velocity screw is growing an icecicle and the power tube is white with frost. why???? why me? none of my friends 98's do this to them, and they don't even have expansion chamber's!!!! I do! any ideas?????(i have been having bad streak with these tippy's, but can't beat the cust. service:)

[The Mafia]

get an antisiphon installed in your tank. Problem solved.

[bulletbill]

yeah, i will have fun finding a place to do that

[Relentless]

Originally posted by bulletbill
yeah, i will have fun finding a place to do that

err, most proshops do it for around 10$...

you can buy em off ebay for 5$ and do it yourself, too

the A-S should help alot..

and make sure you dont angle the marker down alot when you shoot...

[bulletbill]

one problem, no proshop.
would a place that deals in compressed gasses be able to make a custom tube for me?

[willpill]

either get nitro

or go to ottersc customs or something and they have somme mediocore directions to install

man.. if i can do it. i think you can

[raptor046387]

First of all, the reason that your gun is freezing up when you fire quickly is because you are getting liquid CO2 in it. The CO2 in the tank is compressed to the point where it becomes liquid so that more can be stored at a higher pressure. When you fire slower, the CO2 has enough time to expand into gas on the way to the valve. To fix your problem, you just need to stop the liquid CO2 from getting into the gun. Anti-syphon tubes only let in gas CO2 from the tank, which would work. You could also use an expansion chamber, which turns liquid CO2 into gas, or a regulator like the Palmer Stabilizer. Expansion chambers are easy to find and install yourself. A regulator will work better than an expansion chamber, and will also keep your velocities consistent (which helps with accuracy), but it is much more expensive.

[spor]

hey raptor. he allready has an expansion chamber, moron. make shure u know what ur saying b4 u say to do some thing, u just end up looking stupid. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[llSmithll]

if your grip is gettin cold too, might wanna look into drop forwards.

[willpill]

well why dont you buy those hand warmers from a camping store and put it on the tank...

[llSmithll]

yeah...just keep in mind its late july :rolleyes:

[willpill]

oo. haha. but the tank will still be cold...

[llSmithll]

ive heard horror stories of burst disks going off because of them.

[willpill]

hm... well than scratch that idea.

and maybe a tank cover?

[1Speed]

Originally posted by Relentless


err, most proshops do it for around 10$...

you can buy em off ebay for 5$ and do it yourself, too

the A-S should help alot..

and make sure you dont angle the marker down alot when you shoot...

I tried to get one installed but my proshop told me they can't do it because they're not airsmiths and for that reason they can't because of legal issues....:rolleyes: I was like wtf?!

[willpill]

legal issueS? i think i can see why.

but common. ican do it.

its very easy.

there is probably a whole mess of instructions of how to install in the AIR SYSTEMS forum

[bulletbill]

yeah but if YOU install it yourself and it explodes in your face and kills you no one cares. but if the proshop does it and it blows up in your face and they aren't properly trained airsmiths.........lawsuit anyone?????

[llSmithll]

trust me, they wont spontainusly explode, if they were tight enough to hold air, they are sealed. they would have leaked open at the shop before then.

[bulletbill]

i used to run HPA but now i run c02 (don't even ask) so maybe if i let the bottle get a little above room temp. before i use it it will stay mostly gas for the game?

[llSmithll]

no, if all the liquid in there turned gas, you would have a SERIOUS problem. thinkabout it, if all that liquid expanded, you would rupture your birst disk.

[bulletbill]

i know, but i mean if it was a good liquid/gas ratio compared to a cold tank

[arson51]

AS wont help that much. i had an AS instaled with my tippmann expansion chamber. but after sustained fire with the RT icicle formed anyways. the expansion chamber was the only thing that helped. the tippmann expansion chamber acutally heated its self up. odd heh?

the only thing you can do is get nitro.

[willpill]

hm.. and for me. after i got AS. my tank didnt get all frosty after it got filled. it was ust like . a comfortable chill feeling.

but it was really hot.. so maybe thats why

[snaretan]

It really isn't all that hard to instal anti siphon. I've done it to 4 tanks now with complete success. Just take your time. They can be bought from www.countypaintball.com for $4. It's very cheap so whether it solves the problem or not, it isn't like you are out a lot of money.

Tan

[1Speed]

Exactly, how dangerous can installing one yourself be? As long as the tank is completely empty before you open it(you can push the pin down with your finger and no CO2 comes out) you should be fine. However, as far as installing it correctly I suppose it can be dangerous if it's not in right. But it's still fairly simple with the right instructions. O well, im gonna buy HPA before I ever get around to installing an anti-syphon.

[bulletbill]

i just don't care....maybe i'll get a coil remote jobby and a car stock to make my gun all profesional?:)

[snaretan]

Originally posted by bulletbill
i just don't care....maybe i'll get a coil remote jobby and a car stock to make my gun all profesional?:)

THAT'S how you look professional!

Tan

[p8ntball1016]

Originally posted by bulletbill
i just don't care....maybe i'll get a coil remote jobby and a car stock to make my gun all profesional?:) :rolleyes:

[Coenen]

If you want professional, I would say, skip the Car Stock, but the remote would be a pretty good idea. Just remember not to get anti-siphon if you start running remote. To put that in simple terms: remote+anti-siphon=siphon...but you probably already knew that.

[willpill]

Originally posted by bulletbill
i just don't care....maybe i'll get a coil remote jobby and a car stock to make my gun all profesional?:)

get a paintjob and a halo and ebolt and nitro and lp kit.

thats "looking" professional"

i dont know about stocks

[bulletbill]

i refuse to go to a low pressure gas!! and the whole electro bolt thing....:mad: i a total mechanical guy. rt trigger thats it. no wires or batteries to worry about if you drop your gun in the river. as for the paint i've been thinking, but i play woods so a burlap sack over my gun would be a better choice. my 12v revy seems to be keeping up with my little rt "bursts"

[willpill]

kp kit is all mechanical

[bulletbill]

i know.....but then i have to buy it.....get one of those fancy dancy tanks that if you bang them hard you need a new one....and a place to fill up.....and i'm lazy...all these add up

[willpill]

Originally posted by bulletbill
i know.....but then i have to buy it.....get one of those fancy dancy tanks that if you bang them hard you need a new one....and a place to fill up.....and i'm lazy...all these add up


the new nitro ducks are "bullet proof"

[bulletbill]

:agree: co2 is great! :agree:

[llSmithll]

Originally posted by willpill


get a paintjob and a halo and ebolt and nitro and lp kit.

thats "looking" professional"

i dont know about stocks

ooo, like one of those Kingtime69 paintjobs? :nod:

[TeamBlackHawk]

Originally posted by bulletbill
:agree: co2 is great! :agree: ...... i know.....but then i have to buy it.....get one of those fancy dancy tanks that if you bang them hard you need a new one....and a place to fill up.....and i'm lazy...all these add up ....... i refuse to go to a low pressure gas!! and the whole electro bolt thing.... i a total mechanical guy. rt trigger thats it. no wires or batteries to worry about if you drop your gun in the river. as for the paint i've been thinking, but i play woods so a burlap sack over my gun would be a better choice. my 12v revy seems to be keeping up with my little rt "bursts" ......... i just don't care....maybe i'll get a coil remote jobby and a car stock to make my gun all profesional? BAHAHAHAHAAHHHAAHAHAHAHAAHHAHHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHH AAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHHAAHHHAHHAHAH man ur numb.



Nitro biatch.

[bulletbill]

nitro's for the weak:laugh:

[llSmithll]

yes...thats why its more consistant, and has better control of pressure....because its for weaklings....:rolleyes:

[snaretan]

<flame shield>

Actually, nitro has a worse control of pressure, that's why it needs a regulator. CO2 self regulates itself based on temperature. The nitro isn't consistant, it's the regulator that makes it that way.

Imagine shooting yoiur first shot at 4500psi and after a thousand shoots or so, you'll be shooting at 1000psi. Not very consistant without that regulator or preset huh?

I wouldn't say nitro is for the weak, I'd say it's for the rich. Yes it's easier to control than CO2, but would be impossible if not for the regulator.

</flame shield>

Oh, please don't go into arguments of CO2 freezing up becoming inconsistant and stuff, I'm very well award fo that. I just wanted to point out that HPA fluctuates more than CO2 does


Tan

[llSmithll]

show me a nirto tank that doesnt have a regulator on it. why? cause they are standard, you wont see em on co2 tanks.

[snaretan]

Originally posted by llSmithll
show me a nirto tank that doesnt have a regulator on it. why? cause they are standard, you wont see em on co2 tanks.

Cause the nitro has to do it our your marker blows up and/or it's nearly impossible maintain the same velocity.

CO2 can run without it since their pressure is dependant on temperature.


Tan

[llSmithll]

hpa doesnt fluctuate as bad as co2 does with temperature! you get what? 200 fps and 20 shots out of the 9 oz? (thats exageration) hpa goes solid through the seasons. psi drop? you think that the 800 psi in that Chorme moly stays the same? ever notice the shootdown on the end of the shot count? tell me hpa is less finiky than co2...

[bulletbill]

yeah tan's price thing is the reason i won't be upgrading to nitro....maybe once i get a real job and stuff and i'm older i'll make it a possibility but c02 all i got now! nitro's hardcore

[bulletbill]

smith, calm down buddy.....my 20oz c02 with x chamber and remote gives me very consistent velocity and my gun never freezes up (except for the x chamber but better that then my rt cylinder) i get like 1000+ shots(and its not that heavy, anyone who complains there gun is to heavy is a pansy)

[llSmithll]

I AM CALM.....:) seriously, you could have gotten a nitro tank with the amount of $$ you spent on that flatline....

[bulletbill]

yeah...but the flatline...its pro.but my teardrop works hard when i play front.....plus where would i fill up on nitro? and wouldn't i have to get that lp kit from tippy to make it work well??

[llSmithll]

hmm, your local proshop..? to make it worth while, yes, you will need the lp kit, but it will still run on nitro.

[bulletbill]

ok, thats it WHAT THE H@LL IS A PROSHOP??????(i'm guessing a giant paintball place where they sell guns, install and service stuff ect.) but i don'thave a fancy "proshop" where i live so that sucks...

[snaretan]

Originally posted by llSmithll
hpa doesnt fluctuate as bad as co2 does with temperature! you get what? 200 fps and 20 shots out of the 9 oz? (thats exageration) hpa goes solid through the seasons. psi drop? you think that the 800 psi in that Chorme moly stays the same? ever notice the shootdown on the end of the shot count? tell me hpa is less finiky than co2...

I think you are not hearing me correctly. It's not cause of the gas you are using, it's because of the regualtor that makes HPA a better gas to use. If you didn't have the regulator, that HPA tank would be extremely inconsistant. Instead of the temperature effecting it's consistancy, it'd be the shot count.

Anyway, lets refer to this...

http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/gasses/co2pv.gif

Say you have a regualtor on CO2 set for 800psi, and it's currently 90 degrees outside (pretty normal where I live) You will not notice shoot down until you have 20% left in your tank, or until your tank chills to below 65ish degrees.

So, the whole pressure flucuations on a co2 tank at 90 degrees temerature unregulated is 1100psi, and would occur in the last 20% of your CO2 tank fill. On a 4500 tank HPA, at the same temp, unregulated it's a 4500psi change that will drop with every shot. So really, without the regulator HPA would be worse.

Anyway, a lot of people don't have the money to go to HPA or buy a regulator. They just want to go and play paintball. CO2 works for them because of this. They can maintain a usable PSI cheaply and stay at a safe velocity. Personally, I don't think shoot down is as big of a problem as a velocity spike sending you above 300 fps. So my only worry with CO2 is that the teperature outside doesn't rise drasticly while I'm playing and throw my velocity off. That's why I have a regulator. No, I won't be AS perfect as you guys with HPA, but I will be consistant enough to make me happy, safe, and I saved a lot of money. Oh I can get a full refill pretty much anywhere.

As for the time of year you play, yes, if it starts gettnig cold out, HPA does totally own CO2, but in the summer time (and pretty much year round here in FL), CO2 is workable.


Tan

[llSmithll]

its ok, you can say hell on this site, its one of our few liberties, along with damn and crap, but thats about it.

check this (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=British+Columbia+paintball+pro+shop&spell=1)

Snaretan, dont confuse me with draw-inbetween-the-lines pictures...im not 5, but seriously, what the hell is that? psi to temerature to weight chart? gah! give me a 2 variable instead of a 3, its giving my stigmatizm a nightmare.

[bulletbill]

thanks for trying smith but i live on vancouver island and the only propshop is about a six hour drive and paintball isn't to hardcore here (YET) so c02 is fine i just play rec ball in the forest with 20+ people and work them hard:) but my gun totally freezes up if i shoot it right after its been filled. i mean really freeze up! velocity screw has an icicle growing on it, the gun is freezing, powertube is white, rt is seized and snow pouring out of barrel and bolt hole. i was like what the hell my gun is like frozen!

[snaretan]

That graph shows the pressure at which CO2 changes from a liquid to a gas (boils) at different temperatures. The lines are there to represent different temperatures since if they represented all temperature the whole graph would look like a big ink blot.

What you do is find your current teperature. Right now it's like 94 ish outside. So I follow the line to how full my tank is (I have one around 100% and my other is about 80%)

My first tank is sitting in the corner of my room at just around 1300 psi, my other is above 1150. Say my tank has 10% left in the fill, then I'm at 500psi (which would still work, though velocity would be very low). Anyway, find the temperature and follow that line to know what the psi in your tank is. If you regualte your CO2, just make sure you are decently below the line of your current temperature for the most effectiveness of CO2.

If it takes atleast 750 psi for your marker to opperate, you'll be screwed if the temperature drops below 60 degrees, or your tank has 20 percent remianing (which ever comes first). This is the area where HPA is better than CO2 since it will not have that pressure drop around those temperatures.

Anyway, that's a CO2 phase chart. It's pretty old. Hope it leads to many hours of headaches :)

Tan

[bulletbill]

hey tan, does a c02 reg just regulate or does it act as a x chamber also? so can you use both at the same time?

[llSmithll]

regulators are regulators, they can work with methane gas for all they care. why would you want to run both tho?

[willpill]

Originally posted by llSmithll


ooo, like one of those Kingtime69 paintjobs? :nod:


that hurts ... that hurts....:(


:laugh: :laugh:

[snaretan]

Originally posted by bulletbill
hey tan, does a c02 reg just regulate or does it act as a x chamber also? so can you use both at the same time?

Regulators sorta act like an expansion chamber.

Refering back to those charts, if you set your regulator low enough (compared to current pressure in the tank) it would be impossible for the CO2 to be a liquid after it goes through the regulator (because the current temperature would make it boil at that pressure). So, it acts like an expansion chamber in that aspect of not allowing liquid into your marker. It pretty much makes an expansion chamber useless. I could see however where running from tank to expansion to regualtor to valve COULD have benifits, but man, that's a long way for CO2 to travel (with obstructions) and would cause a lot of shoot down under high rates of fire.

Tan

[bulletbill]

ok, this is getting crazy....but could you get one of those tippy v adapters with the T fitting at the joint so an x chamber is put into the adapter...the gas goes through the tube...down into the reg and up onto the valve??

[Coenen]

Why on earth would you want to do that?:eyes:
I guess it's possible but, why man?!? WHY!?!?!

[llSmithll]

no, its not. its just a t fitting. all that thing does in the lp kit is a volumizer.

[snaretan]

Let me go into that volumizer a bit more. What's happeneing with low pressure is that you need more volume of air to push the paintball up to 300fps. Unfortunatly the internals aren't very large and do not have much air flow, or total air in reserve. By having that volumizer (I've always called it a low pressure chamber) it basicly puts more air at the low pressure right next to the valve, ready to shoot.

Tan

[bulletbill]

tan your such a air specialist!!!!! you like now everything about what makes a paintball leave the barrel. i take my hat off to you(if i had a hat:( ) would suggest to get the low pressure kit, and a lp tank, and all that stuff for my 98? she's pretty fly as is

[snaretan]

Well, I suppose you could if you wanted to. I only see one purpose with going low pressure on any gun. Surprisingly enough, it's when you are running CO2.

Remember how I was saying that CO2 will be a liquid or gas depending on the pressure which is effected by the temperature of the CO2? Well, if you make your marker shoot at a low enough pressure, there is no way CO2 could go through your valves. So, lets say your new "low pressure" marker shoots at 300psi. That means you could run at 0 degrees outside and still be at the full amount of pressure required to shoot your marker. I doubt many people would play much below 40 degrees or so, which means your tank will have 600psi... plenty for a low pressure marker.

The only other advantages I can see with low pressure is less ball breaks and lighter internals. The only balls I've broken in my 98c, I shouldn't have been using anyway. They were really old. Otherwise, I've never broken a ball in my 98c, so that is a non issue for me. The lighter internals will lessen recoil which will help you maintain your sites on target, which in turn gives the perception of a more accurate marker. I usually don't shoot so fast that I can't control my recoil, so once again, a non issue for me.

Another thing I have against the low pressure system, especially with a 98c is the price. The low pressure system will not go on anything other than a 98c (except the regulator... as far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong about this)). So you are stuck with an investment that won't transfer if you decide to step up to another marker.

Overall, unless you are playing in tournaments with your 98, I wouldn't waste my time with it. But, to each is own, so the ultimate decision is yours

Tan

P.S. Thanks for the compliment. Maybe some day I'll be an airsmith.......

[bulletbill]

yeah i guess i'll leave the cannon the way she is (my guns nickname is cannon and its a "she"). maybe when i go more hardcore into paintball i'll get the lp stuff. I don't really use the sights as a front player i just side gun guess aim which works well. The recoil could be a problem but i'm getting 12 balls out a sec so no biggy (maybe that remote and stock would be cool?) pure gas in the gun with an x chamber and remote! yeah co2 fine right now except for the major snow issues with an x chamber:(

[bulletbill]

could those crazy guys at the store be over filling my tank so it hardcore snows!

[snaretan]

Originally posted by bulletbill
could those crazy guys at the store be over filling my tank so it hardcore snows!


You are playing in Canada, that could one problem (I assume it's cold there right now).

You tell me if they are over filling. When you are over half way out of shots, does it still snow?

Maybe an anti siphon would do the trick?

Tan

[bulletbill]

okay...most of canada isn't that cold! especially since its august! its like 80 degrees! and it snows right when full to about half..changes with stuff, like temp. one time the frost worked my gun! it was totally iced up

[snaretan]

My guess is your Xchamber is filling with liquid CO2 and it's getting to your valve. Anti siphon would definatly help (it's $4 if you can instal it yourself www.countypaintball.com).

Tan

[bulletbill]

yes well a AS is all good and well but the remote tan! the remote! apparently asi 4 stage is nice

[llSmithll]

stabilizer. all the way

[willpill]

no no.. anti siphon and remote! ya. the best.

do you know that they are overfilling?

[bulletbill]

i hope you are being sarcastic about the anti + remote willpill! and the filler guys are noobs so they might be COMPLETELY filling the tank instead of leaving some room for the gas

[snaretan]

though I've never actually tried using a remote, I don't think I'd like it. I'd feel really cool on the field and all, but I think it'd get annoying, being attatched and call. I use 16oz stubbys... I just bought a maverick, not sure what I'll use on that, but I am considering a remote to keep the marker VERY light.

Tan

[bulletbill]

yeah i have a massive 20oz that i'm using as a stock right now . my gun is heavy, but i can take it. if i got a remote my gun would be way to front heavy so a stock would be needed for sure. i'll see

[willpill]

im not dissing anyone.but how could a little paintball gun be top heavy with a hopper and barrel. i try it. makes no difference?

[bulletbill]

well with a heavy barrel, 12v revy hopper, brass vert. adapter, x chamber, full paint, and no tank, the gun is very weirdly weighted

[bulletbill]

I CRACKED MY FREAKING POWER TUBE!!!! it was so cold i heard this "crack" sound, and i'm all "uh oh..." gun froze up oldschool hard! so cold it cracked! i'm going to get to the bottom of this.....(new free one is on its way:) ) but seriously why? WHY??? i'm going to go cry now.....

[snaretan]

my best (and only) guess is you are getting liquid in the valve. Try getting an anti siphon or run a remote (don't do both). I'm surprised that happened, but, it is plastic...

Tan

[llSmithll]

Originally posted by snaretan
my best (and only) guess is you are getting liquid in the valve. Try getting an anti siphon or run a remote (don't do both). I'm surprised that happened, but, it is plastic...

Tan
overtightened valve screws did it for me, i now have a 98 powertube in a 98 custom.

get nitro.

[bulletbill]

do you mean the really old power tube that was aluminum

[bulletbill]

i replaced my power tube with the one that comes with the rt kit, and it seems to be working fine.....Does anyone know where i can buy an aluminum one that is rt trigger compatible?