custom autococker vs. nicer stock

[bobobachigalupi]

if i were to get an autococker should i get a vert feed 2k1 or say a black magic or sto?? don't talk about air systems because i plan on getting a pure energy 4500 off ebay pretty cheap.

[pr0kch0p]

get the black magic, it will be cheaper overall because you will spend less money upgrading it to the level of a high end cocker.

[ShadowKi][er]

Making your own 'cocker is fun, but a small money hole. I'd go for the Black Magic. If you're on a budget, the STO.

[xm65]

The black magic cockers are nice, but at 100.00 more than the STO, not worth it. They are basically the same. Save the milling and cute little flamey reg. and metal .45 frame. Performance wise same as STO!
I would go with a KAPP cocker instead of the Black Magic. It costs about the same if you stick with basic black. Perfermance is a notch up, and the marker is totally custom! Fit and finish on the KAPPS is outstanding. Milled back block, milled front block with retention screws. Milled marker body, milled chrome three 3-way, milled chrome externally adjustible reg., Custom metal .45 frame... Internals are all KAPP custom.... The Anodizing and chrome plating are among the best in the bus......the list goes on. The marker functions very smoothly.... Just an over all great marker for the cost!

[Silent Knight]

I think that is aside from the question he is asking, but I would say go for the Blackmagic. Like prochop said it'll be cheaper in the long run because you really won't be upgrading any parts on it. Yea it has STO parts, but guess what. It's STO parts that set the aftermarket industry standard! It's not a bad gun at all. If your looking to get a good gun, one time! and don't really like to mess around upgrading, then the Blackmagic is a good choice.

I say, If you have the money, then go for it!

[xm65]

Looks and the carbon 45 frame are the only diff. You can have the same performance as the Bm save the 100.00 plus dollars and by a benchmark frame and buy a case of quality paint.... The STO is nice marker, and since everyone is buyin ghte BM... the prices are droppinging the STO!

[chandlern1]

look if you want quality go with the black magic and the black magic would only be $50 more cauce you are going to get a new trigger fram and besides you dont have to upgrade well maybe a barrel if you are a nut

[xm65]

The only thing that you would be upgrading is the .45 frame! You could buy the Hinge trigger and a revo for the STO. For the Same price as the BM. Our you could buy an HPA system.... Thats alot of money for little flames on the side.

[Silent Knight]

Here here this will settle this. If your a broke arso mofo, then get the STO, if you got $$$ then Hmmm black magic!

[xm65]

By Goerge..... I think he's got it! LMAO

[chandlern1]

say what kind of gun you got any way this guy wants are opinion not for us to debate lamo:pissed:

[xm65]

I have a few.....

1. Timmy

2. Custom Pro team cocker.... biult from scratch

3. 32* cocker

4. Mod 98, tipmann

5. Biulding a custom spyder

We were stating our opinions. My opinion is that the STO is a much better bargain. It performs exactly as the Black Magic and costs 100.00 to 150.00 less. The only real diff. is the metal 45 frame!

Further more, The KAPP cocker would be a much better buy! It is an exceptional value! For only 50.00 more than the Black Magic.
Before you go there.. yes the KAPP would include a barrel and a WGP ergo reg.. The KAPP marker is much more extensively tricked out, and customized than the BM or STO...

The reason I mention the KAPP is becuase he mentions custom cockers in his initial posts subject line.

So I guess MR. Knight is correct, if he has the money to spend, and does not care about getting the best value... then the Black Magic is it! If he want the performance of the Black Magic at a better price, then the STO is a better option.

:drop:

[chandlern1]

i think you get a nice milling on it i think i would take it over the sto any day but thats just me its up for the buyer to decide i like the way the reg is on the black magic ang the hole set up is so nice. i suggest the black magic but the sto is made by worr to so their both good

[pr0kch0p]

Originally posted by xm65
Looks and the carbon 45 frame are the only diff. You can have the same performance as the Bm save the 100.00 plus dollars and by a benchmark frame and buy a case of quality paint.... The STO is nice marker, and since everyone is buyin ghte BM... the prices are droppinging the STO!

benchmark cocker frames are the biggest pieces of crap i have held in my hand. the little screws directly below the trigger rub against your middle finger and make it impossible to hold it for long periods of time.

[pr0kch0p]

Originally posted by xm65


Further more, The KAPP cocker would be a much better buy! It is an exceptional value! For only 50.00 more than the Black Magic.
Before you go there.. yes the KAPP would include a barrel and a WGP ergo reg.. The KAPP marker is much more extensively tricked out, and customized than the BM or STO...

The reason I mention the KAPP is becuase he mentions custom cockers in his initial posts subject line.

So I guess MR. Knight is correct, if he has the money to spend, and does not care about getting the best value... then the Black Magic is it! If he want the performance of the Black Magic at a better price, then the STO is a better option.

:drop:

KAPP cockers dont come with regs or barrels, price that in there thats an extra $150-$200. so thats $1000? i think you could build a custom ripper cocker with all KAPP parts for about the same price, maybe a little more.

the black magic is better because replacing the carbon fiber frame on the sto will cost around $100. so that is where the price is. it also comes with a cooler drop foward, the 15* asa and better milling.

[xm65]

First off, I think benchmark frames are a good value! I have never had any problems with them. Your intitled to your opinion, and I'm sure you belive it to be true. I have'nt had that problem becuase I use my middle finger to shoot. However for the 100.00-150.00 he would save.. He could get whatever frame he wanted! Get a Planet Blade trigger frame... WGP hinge trigger...
Dye, KAPP, which ever he likes! I think you may be suprised to find out how many companies Benchmark made 45 frames for...
The drop forwards are but UGLY! Get a KAPP or CP... again the choice is his... AS far as the milling, I acknowledge that. Though the milling does not have anything to do with performance.


If you would bother to read my post I clearly state that the KAPP would include an ergo reg and a SS one piece barrel. All for 800.00! The Black Magic retails for about 750.00! The Kapp can be ordered with a 15* vertical ASA if thats a big issue for you. At no extra cost. The 15* rake in no way enhances performance!

I'm not trying to offend you in any way. I just dont feel that the BM should cost that much. I feel the STO is a better value.
As for the KAPP, 800.00 for black as stated above.. If you want one just let me know!

[chandlern1]

if you wear to get a cp flame drop forward on a red black magic it would look so sweet i love the milling on the black magics and the fact that does not rilly nedd to be up graded

[DasBaldDog]

For the price of a KAPP you can get a Shocktech Hookup and air. Shocktech, better anyday.

[Jake]

Hey, no offense but you guys are arguing opinions not facts. I don't understand why you keep arguing about this, they are both great guns and to have either one would be awesome. The only thing i disagree with is that one of you guys said that a 15 degree asa has no performance value. It may not have a mechanical performance enhancement but it is awesome as far as player performance. If you don't know what i'm talking about shouldering this gun with the 15 degree asa is fast and comfortable because where you would have to switch the posistion of you hand with a straight asa your hand is already in the posistion it was in when you lower your gun. This is great for front players in my opinion because of the number of times we raise and lower our gun. Unlike you lazy back men who just lean out a bunker and pull the trigger the entire game never lowering your gun. In my opinon player performance enhancements are more important then mechanical performances. If my cocker works more reliably at 300 psi then at 200 psi then i 'm gonna run at 300 psi even if it isn't more gas efficient

[chandlern1]

the hook up series is nice i sall it in a magazine i like it a lot its a nice gun and nice package

[paintballer56]

i agree with xm65 post, get the sto with hinge, and maybe a revy or soemthing to be same price as stock bm, and a better gun and bm milling is just horrific

[xm65]

DasBaldDog can you show me where you can get the shock tech marker for less then the KAPP... Everywhere I've looked the Shock Techs run about 100.00 more.... at that price I would look at the Eclipse Blade cocker....