Symmetrical Field Debate (Continued)

[Magnus55]

Sorry, I just clipped it from the Amazing_Spyderman's thread because CK and I were spamming it up:

Why do most speedball field owners try to make their fields as symmetrical as possible? You can have both sides be unique while still letting your field be fair on both teams. It just takes a bit more intuition and thought, and some find tuning and adjustment as people use the field to compensate for advantages and disadvantages. As a player I enjoy diversity, and I always prefer a field with a unique lay out over a symetrical one. But maybe that's just me. :)

[cocker kid 2k2]

Originally posted by Magnus55
Why do all speedball field owners try to make their fields as symmetrical as possible?

Because when your playing a tourney, with money/prizes on the line, teams are going to use everything they possibly can to win, and if one team loses more likely than not you'll hear them complain to the field owner that the sides weren't fair and other such things. Making it symmetrical is the only way to make it totally even, and totally fair

You can have both sides be unique while still letting your field be fair on both teams. It just takes a bit more intuition and thought, and some find tuning and adjustment as people use the field to compensate for advantages and disadvantages. As a player I enjoy diversity, and I always prefer a field with a unique lay out over a symetrical one. But maybe that's just me. :)

Everybody likes diversity, thats why we play differen't fields, not the same one all the time. Another reason why a field that isn't symmetrial isn't the greatest idea is because if a team has a plan on who to go where and do what off the break, and it works the first time around, but then they switch sides and the field layout is different from their point of view, that can screw up a lot of hard planning.

[Magnus55]

Well I agree with you on the first part. That makes a lot of sense. But I think teams can just as easily plan for how to effectively use a whole field from both sides, as using half a field that's exactly the same on the opposing side. Has paintball really gotten that robotic that you need to have both sides be exactly the same so everybody can run to the exact same positions they did before and play roughly the exact same game they played minutes ago? For a sport that encourages so much innovation, playing on a symetrical field seems to kill a lot of that.

Sorry Amazing_Spyderman, kinda taking your thread off topic. :|

[cocker kid 2k2]

When playing tennis, do the boxes really have to be the exact same size on both sides of the court?

When playing basketball, do the foul shot and 3 point lines really have to be the same distance from the hoop on both sides of the court?

On a football field do the fields really have to both have the exact same amount of yards?

When playing soccer, do both goals really need to be the exact same size?

When racing someone on a track, does each distance each person has to run really need to be the exact same length?

Does each side of the paintball field need to be perfectly even?

Yes.

[Magnus55]

Originally posted by cocker kid 2k2
When playing tennis, do the boxes really have to be the exact same size on both sides of the court?

When playing basketball, do the foul shot and 3 point lines really have to be the same distance from the hoop on both sides of the court?

On a football field do the fields really have to both have the exact same amount of yards?

When playing soccer, do both goals really need to be the exact same size?

When racing someone on a track, does each distance each person has to run really need to be the exact same length?

Does each side of the paintball field need to be perfectly even?

Yes.

So that's your whole argument then? Because all the other sports are doing it too? :|

[jakesak]

Not all feilds that look symmetrical are symmetrical. On many you wil find different angles and such.

[Hoplon]

The important thing is that the the field is even, not symmetrical. The problem is it's really hard to make an asymmetrical field even!

[cocker kid 2k2]

Originally posted by Magnus55


So that's your whole argument then? Because all the other sports are doing it too? :|

My whole argument? No, you've seen what else I had to say. Its just, if its been working for other sports for so long, why not paintball, only seems logical to me. There are however feilds that aren't made to match evenly on both sides, we like to call it woodsball.

[UTLadiesMan]

Originally posted by Hoplon
The important thing is that the the field is even, not symmetrical. The problem is it's really hard to make an asymmetrical field even!

That's exactly my feelings. Asymmetrical fields are cool and fun to play, but in order to assure statistical 'evenness', you'd have to play and record the results of a LOT of games. This is even more complicated in paintball, because the teams and sides won't always be random, so some measurement of skill would have to be evaluated and inserted into the equation as well.

So, you'd have to figure out a way to modify an Elo-Harkness rating system to correspond to individual players on individual teams, and then use another equation to find the 'team' rating for both teams for each game. Then plug that back into your field equation to make sure their even. The only problem is that in order to be statistically accurate, an Elo-Harkness formulae usually has to have at least 10 games by the average player and 25 before any player is 'official'. But, since most rec teams are a 'one time' team, we have to go by individual players... the number of which on a given team fluctuate... ALSO that would make the number of games needed (for an average of 5 people per team) 25 times higher! So, we'd need 625 games by the average player until their rankings are statistically accurate. (to within .5% of the true rating) Futhermore, to ensure their accuracy, all of these games have to be on perfectly fair fields. (technically, they should be fair both front to back and left to right)


Anyway, assuming you have a reasonably accurate player ratings database, then you'd need to play a little over 1000 games on the new field before you can measure it's exact fairness. (to within a .5% margin) Obviously, if you're making this field for a tournament, you don't want anyone to see it before hand and you certainly don't want 1000 games being played on it.

Anyway, if you can overcome that, then I'm all for it. :P

[Crash Danger]

they should re-arrange the field after every game. That would really be a challenge, and prove who has the best teamwork and ingenuity.

[radishboy]

Originally posted by cocker kid 2k2
When playing tennis, do the boxes really have to be the exact same size on both sides of the court?

When playing basketball, do the foul shot and 3 point lines really have to be the same distance from the hoop on both sides of the court?

On a football field do the fields really have to both have the exact same amount of yards?

When playing soccer, do both goals really need to be the exact same size?

When racing someone on a track, does each distance each person has to run really need to be the exact same length?

Does each side of the paintball field need to be perfectly even?

Yes.

but none of those would be equally fair for both teams. the field can be different on each side, but still be as fair. but then again, who determines what is fair and what isn't? i don't really see a problem with it for rec ball, but in a tournament situation, i don't think it would work out very well.

[Crash Danger]

Baseball isn't really played on a symmetrical field (the shape is in one direction, but not from the way the teams are positioned)

[UTLadiesMan]

Originally posted by Crash Danger
Baseball isn't really played on a symmetrical field (the shape is in one direction, but not from the way the teams are positioned)

Ah, but they get to play both sides, do they not?


So, for tournaments, you could play two games. If you win from both sides, you win. Else, you play two more. Continue until one team wins both. (Or you could just keep alternating until one team wins two in a row)

[radishboy]

Originally posted by UTLadiesMan


Ah, but they get to play both sides, do they not?


So, for tournaments, you could play two games. If you win from both sides, you win. Else, you play two more. Continue until one team wins both. (Or you could just keep alternating until one team wins two in a row)

ugh. i can just imagine games running behind schedule even more than usual.

[UTLadiesMan]

If your fields were truely close to even, it wouldn't be bad... but if they are as off as a lot of the ones I've seen... one match could go on for hours. :laugh:

[russpaintballer]

Originally posted by cocker kid 2k2
When playing tennis, do the boxes really have to be the exact same size on both sides of the court?

When playing basketball, do the foul shot and 3 point lines really have to be the same distance from the hoop on both sides of the court?

On a football field do the fields really have to both have the exact same amount of yards?

When playing soccer, do both goals really need to be the exact same size?

When racing someone on a track, does each distance each person has to run really need to be the exact same length?

Does each side of the paintball field need to be perfectly even?

Yes.

Paintball is not every other sport. There's no sport on your list that is like paintball.

Here (My attachment) is an example of a Speedball field where I usually play, and I find very fair. (There are more bunkers, but none that really affect the strategy for the teams) (Bunker size extremely exaggerated due to terrible skill at drawing them)

The top path is a snake, located closer to the team on the left. The right is a path of close and high coverage bunkers which lead about as far as the snake to the other side. There are a some other bunkers that are pretty good spots, on both sides, but I'm just showing the basics. There are many ways the team can choose to play, but where one advantage is given to one team, an equal advantage is given to another.

If every field was symmetrical, the games would get boring. If you can't play it on one side of a symmetrical field, there's no chance you can on the other. Asymmetrical fields prevent this as well.

[Assass!n]

I'd take the higher area because then i can shoot people's hopper's as they crawl in the snake. I can also wait for them to pop up, and when they're scanning the field, I'll shoot them.

[LAMANTEthePBguy]

While very nice, it would be very difficult to make the sides even, like UTL said. It would also be nice for small feilds, that may only have one field, because they can get diversity, in the same amount of space. I know playing locally(the feild only has one feild), it can get repettetive, because some players will probably have the same stratagy, wich can get predictable after the first hour.