PROe

[snipinhick]

does anyone here have the pro e??? whats it like???

[JiZZMoNKEY]

The PROe Has not even been releasd yet. MSRP Will be around 300-350$ and it will perform almost like the Kingman AMG

[Nitro]

JiZZMoNKEY i ought to slap you for saying it will perform like a AMG. 1st off the kingman reg isnt a real reg, 2nd piranhas are better then spyders :p it will not perform like a AMG, thats like saying all electros perform the same.

Mike From PMI said $399
release is sep-oct

[Hsuve]

1. The Kingman regulator is a real regulator. Deny it all that you want...
2. Explain to me how Piranhas are better. :P
3. How is it performing the same as the AMG saying that all electros perform the same?

[Nitro]

i said if you"say" the amg will perform "same" as pro e its like saying "all" electros will perfrom the same, im not saying they do just saying ig you compare those 2.

ok piranhas better becauz um........... true vert feed, better customer service, i've has less problems with them, shorter trigger pull out of box, higer ROF, etc

[JiZZMoNKEY]

God I said it would ALMOST (Key Word) Perform like the AMG I never said it would be better or worse or even be on the same level as it!

[Chrisb]

I think it will perform much the same as the AMG or any blow back with a Booyaah or Centerflag grip. All of these guns have the same thing in common, the sear is controlled by a solenoid. So they all fire the same way, the only thing that might make them feel different is the way the triggers are setup, and how comfortable the grips are. I like Piranha's better then spyders myself but I must admit that they both work on the same principles. Actually if you looked at a Spyder SE and a Power feed piranha body they are the same thing other then the feild strip pin on the prianha.

[Hsuve]

True vertical feed? How is a Spyder vertical feed not a vertical feed? You've had less problems with them? That says nothing for the rest of us. I have not had a problem with my Spyder, ever since I stopped trying to screw around with it. :D The ROF is not higher, with the same trigger length. A trigger job for the Spyder series is very simple and will take under 20 minutes to get the trigger shorter than a stock Piranha trigger... Not only that, but you get to learn a bit about how your gun works.

[Chrisb]

Alright......way are we arguing about why piranhas are better then spyders, isn't this a Piranha forum, isn't this a place for piranha lovers, i'm sure there is a Spyder forum full of guys that would totally agree with you.

[Hsuve]

I'm not so biased towards Spyders that I would go around saying: "Spyders are better than Piranhas!! Spyders are better than Piranhas!!" That would just be stupid, for the reason that they're not. I was not saying that Spyders are better than Piranhas, only that Piranhas are not better than Spyders. And that remark of "true vertical feed" is something I had to figure out... I don't see how a Spyder vertical feed isn't a "true" vertical feed...

[Chrisb]

They both have there good and bad and I think it is more of a personal preference thing. Ya I didn't get that Vert feed thing myself, maybe he hasn't seen the vert spyders yet they are kind of new.

[Nitro]

1 of the main purposes of a vertical feed is to eliminate the use of having to use a elbow. i mean why whould you have a elbow on a marker if you dont need it? you dont see them on angels, excals, vf cockers, piranhas, etc do u?

[Hsuve]

Uh... A vertical feed was not made to eliminate the use of an elbow... Where did you hear that? Vertical feed allows balls to feed very quickly, due to no friction among rolling against the feed tube. No, you don't see them on Angels, Piranhas, vertical feed 'Cockers, and such, but what does that matter at all? It's a new thing, just as nitrogen and electronic guns used to be. The elbow on the Spyder Xtra can actually be useful, you can make your hopper stay on very snugly, without any use of electrical tape and such. The Spyder Xtra vertical feed, and those on the EM-1, AMG, and Flash are all "true" vertical feeds... :P

[Moose]

They are also raised higher than the piranha vertical feeds, thus stacking more balls.

[PiranhaPro]

Originally posted by Nitro
you dont see them on angels

Um, you have to use an elbow on a lot of angels...

[snipinhick]

I think that the spider Xtras elbow is a VERY big helper, for all of us that don't keep track of our balls and don't have motorized hoppers, it is nice to be able to see if you got balls or not, see if its time to shake the hopper or not, I don't' see why an elbow would be of any hindrance.

[Dermen]

Ok here is why I think the ProE is better. It is low pressure out of the box and the AMG is not. The ProE has a longer feed neck on its VF it is not the same as one on a normal Piranha VF. The VF on the ProE holds more balls then any Spyder VF. Also as for Hsuve you can do a trigger job on a Piranha in under 20 minutes I did it 4 days ago and its trigger pull is now shorter than a stock Spyder so your comment doesnt make any sense. Also the the ProE comes with a RAM air lp chamber that is supposed to be better than a normal lp chamber but I dont know if it is because my Piranha doesnt have a lp chamber. And I have heard from people who have shot the ProE that say it is the most comfortable grip they have ever held. Last of all the ProE in my opinion looks better than the AMG. I am sure you will all post things saying I am wrong but thats ok because I dont visit this message board I use the one at the PMI website. Oh yeah and PMI has the best customer service compared to any paintball company. I always hear people having problems with thier spyders and having problems with Kingman. I have had one problem with my Piranha and I sent John an email and he sent me one how to fix it the same day.

[Hsuve]

Actually, it does make sense. Saying that a trigger job made your trigger shorter than a Spyder trigger does not. I could do a two hour Piranha trigger job that's better than a Spyder by just sitting on the couch. Why? Because Piranhas come stock with a better stock trigger... The ProE highrise is about the same as the Kingman vertical feeds... Problems with Spyders? Guess those people shouldn't have screwed around with their guns without knowing how it works... If you did, Spyders won't cause you any troubles. :P I have decided to stock modifying my Spyder, for now anyway, and since then, I have had not one problem. No leaks, no o-rings problems, nothin'. Don't think Piranhas don't screw up either, just look around on this forum, see what kind of problems there are... I don't think PMI has the best service... From what I hear, Tippmann or AGD does. ProE having the most comfortable grip? I'm not sure it's even out in stores yet...

[Dermen]

What I meant was the guy said he could do a trigger job on a spyder and it would be better than a piranhas trigger. You can do a trigger job on any gun and make it better. And the ProE is not out yet but John from PMI took it to Splatterpark and let people shoot it over the chrono and some of those people said it had the most comfortable grip commpared to the boo yea and other grips they have shot but I dont know what they have shot.

[PiranhaPro]

Originally posted by Dermen
It is low pressure out of the box and the AMG is not.
LP does nothing. The only good thing about LP is the fact that it reduces kick, and noise if that matters. The only reason I like my LP setup is it has less kick. Im a front man, and noise doesnt make a difference.

The VF on the ProE holds more balls then any Spyder VF.
With the spyder elbow it will hold just as many balls as the Piranha VF. After a while more balls is pointless. I personally like to have about 8 stacked, and BOTH guns will do this. After 8 there isnt a point becuase the revvy will catch up.

Its supposed to be better, but its not. I threw mine away...
[quote]
And I have heard from people who have shot the ProE that say it is the most comfortable grip they have ever held.
What they like and what other people like are two different things. Gripframes are a total preference. I cant stand an Angel gripframe for some reason, I just dont like it. If they liked it, good for them, but that doesnt give it anything 'extra' over the AMG.

Last of all the ProE in my opinion looks better than the AMG.
Again, thats a personal thing. I think both guns look like crap.....then again, I dont like the looks of a lot of guns.

Oh yeah and PMI has the best customer service compared to any paintball company.
Wrong. AGD and Tippmann stomp PMI in customer service. PMI has good customer support, but are far from the best in the business.

I always hear people having problems with thier spyders and having problems with Kingman.
So because people can't take care of a gun means the gun line, and the company sucks? WOW!


I have had one problem with my Piranha and I sent John an email and he sent me one how to fix it the same day.

Email polecat with a Spyder problem and he will respond in 24 hours.

[Dermen]

If LP does nothing then how does it reduce kick and noise. Reducing kick helps aim.

I have only seen pics of VF spyders. But I would rather have a taller VF made of metal instead of a short one with a plastic elbow.

I never said the RAM air chamber was better I just said it was supposed to be.

The grip some people might like sorry for not saying that it was a persons opinion but I figured people would be able to figure that out.

On the looks subject I said it was in my opinion better looking. You just stated the same thing I did.

Yes when I said it had the best customer service I should have said compared to Kingman instead of any company.

I never said Kingman or Spyders sucked. Stop making things up. I have heard from people who were having problems with thier spyders say the customer service wasnt that good.

Last of all why are you picking apart everything I say I think is good about the ProE. I said thats why I think it is better. I never said it was better. All you are doing is taking my post apart and adding your own comments to mine to make it look like I am attacking Kingman or something. Have fun replying to this and continuing an argument you started for no reason.

[Hsuve]

Personally, he doesn't believe LP does anything for performance, but I do. :D A plastic elbow is not a problem at all, personally, I like it. :) You can tighten the hopper as much as you want, and you can see if there's a ball there, if you have a black VL 200, or something similar. From what I've heard, the RAM air chamber is just another problem to be fixed. I've heard that the hole in the front leaks sometimes, and saw it happen once on the field. Probably just needs proper lubing though... Well, grips aren't always opinion. I'm sure stock grips, on frames without an LCD, don't feel as well as Sticky Grips... ;) However, I doubt the grips will feel much different than Sticky Grips, or the eLCD grips... Saying that Spyders will have problems is something you don't need to bring up. "Hey! Look, do you know that Piranhas have problems sometimes?" That's a stupid question, most all guns will have at least one problem during the time of ownership. :)

[Dermen]

I never said Spyders would have problems and Piranhas wouldnt. Where are you guys getting this crap.

[PiranhaPro]

Originally posted by Dermen
If LP does nothing then how does it reduce kick and noise. Reducing kick helps aim.


As I said:

LP does nothing besides reducing kick and noise.

Numerous companies and individuals have proved that LP does nothing as far as accuracy goes. And I belive them, as most of them either have pics, videos, or are such a well respected person in the industry (Tom Kaye for example)

[Dermen]

LP does nothing.

I hope that worked otherwise I will look stupid.

[krafty]

I think the pro e looks better too. The amg has side cocking and with the elbow it has a better chance of being seen over the bunker.

[krafty]

When comparing spyders and piranhas in the pmi forum one shouldnt Bad Mouth piranhasred :)

[Hsuve]

There's nothing wrong with side cocking. If you get a drop forward that moves your tank as far forward as mine (KAPP Drop Zone II), a rear cocking rod will be sticking right in your face, and you'll kinda have to stick your head back a bit. Not very comfortable, but sadly enough, I've gotten used to it. ;) Elbow? The Pro-E in the picture uses a high rise, keeps the hopper as high up as the Kingman vertical feeds with the elbow. Not only that, but the Kingman elbow is clear, so you can see if there's a ball in there. You can also tighten the hopper as much as you want, rather than hope the hopper won't fall off if you use a regular vertical feed like those on most all other guns.

[Dermen]

The ProE has flush cocking. So you wouldnt have to hold your head back. You couldnt get hit by the bolt unless you were trying. And yes the fluch cocking rod still moves but only about 1/4" and not past the velocity adjuster.

[BlindSeaman]

Flush cocking is a really good idea, kingman had it on one of their guns, but hasn't implemented it since. I wish they would.:(

[Hsuve]

Flush cocking is great, however, I'd much rather have top cocking. Jam a ball? Just tug on the cocking rod and it comes out pretty easily. You can also quickly strip the bolt while leaving the striker in. I would rather have flush than side cocking on the bottem tube though, just for the reason that you can take off your thumb nail if you hold the gun in a certain way... ;)

[marc]

i don't know how you guys can say the LP doesn't harm the aim

if it reduces kick then the gun would be more steady thus being more accurate with your aiming
when your gun kicks back, the gun WILL move, and if you have a long barrel that 1 inch that it moves can severely harm your aim.

Just do a little math
make a chart if you need visual aid, how much a 1 inch margin of error can veer your ball off target.

PiranhaPro, you know a lot, no one is questioning that, but you seemed to have picked a fight here for no reason.
Also, i would prefer to have the Piranha, why...
simple, Spyder guns are designed to only accept Spyder parts which are distributed by Kingman and are more expensive than most.
My brother has a Spyder TL, and the poor guy has been looking everywhere for a drop forward adapter, but doesn't want to spend the 80 bucks CDN for a Spyder drop forward. Especially when i paid my drop forward 45 bucks, that's with a new duckbill and new hosing, installed.

But until i try and AMG and a ProE i don't want to say anything. But i would think the ProE would perform a little better than the AMG, besides it's all in the player, not the gun.

[Hsuve]

The adapter isn't expensive at all, it's anywhere from $6-$10 US currency. Or you can drill and tap your own holes if you wish. I can see how LP won't harm the aim, as you mentioned yourself, the gun's more stable... ;) Sadly enough, PiranhaPro will no longer be replying, he has decided to get out of PBReview... :( About the last comment about all in the player and not in the gun. That is surely debatable. I will definitely say that it is not all in the gun, but not all in yourself either. More importantly than yourself, sometimes, is other people, and how they communicate to help you.

[U/\/a/\/\eD]

http://www.actionvillage.com/010-5060.html

[Dermen]

Scroll down to where it says "This gun will not be released until early November."

[marc]

Originally posted by Hsuve
The adapter isn't expensive at all, it's anywhere from $6-$10 US currency. Or you can drill and tap your own holes if you wish. I can see how LP won't harm the aim, as you mentioned yourself, the gun's more stable... ;) Sadly enough, PiranhaPro will no longer be replying, he has decided to get out of PBReview... :( About the last comment about all in the player and not in the gun. That is surely debatable. I will definitely say that it is not all in the gun, but not all in yourself either. More importantly than yourself, sometimes, is other people, and how they communicate to help you.

True, the part may only be 10-12 dollars USD, however, we live in Canada. We found a site that has the adapter for 12 USD, plus shipping, and brokerage. The totaly comes out to just over 30 dollars CDN, and then he can get the drop forward for 45 CDN, totallying 75+ CDN.
Now, not only is it an inconvience to have to order a special part, but we would also have to wait on delivery.
You see what i'm saying? Even Kingman authorized dealers in Canada have a hard time getting that part from Kingman. Fact of the matter is, Spyders guns can cause certain players a huge amount of inconvience. It's a good gun, but Kingman is TOO greedy, if they actually cared about the player, they would make the gun more universal, like the Piranha.

[Hsuve]

Well, if it's such a hassle to have it ordered, you can always buy your own drill and tap and create your own holes. What do you mean by "universal"? If you mean metric holes, it's for the reason that they're made in Taiwan. Big deal, buy an adapter, it's really cheap. Or start with a Compact 2000, that way when you buy a hose and bottemline, you don't need an adapter of any sort. You really make everything sound too difficult, when it truly is quite simple...

[Person]

Stop bickering girls :p Just chill if you like yer spyder great if yer fish great no gun is better. the best gun desighed was the talon i dont care what you guys say Talons fookin rock the house with there 1ball per minute speed they rock and with the BE balls i only chop balls 89% of the time talons rock!!! Ok that was just an example i love talons and you dont who cares:) Spyders are fishies are both nearly the same like what you like and keep it to yourself. Peace out talons rock!