Question about older Autocockers...

[PEA]

I recently picked up a used Autococker. I'm wondering how you can tell what year the gun is? I believe the guy that sold it to me purchased it in 1998, but this gun doesn't have a vertical regulator. So I'm thinking it's a 1997. Here's some features I noticed about it... It does not have a hole in the top for adjusting the sear lug. It doesn't have a threaded timeing rod. How can I tell if it's a 1997? I'm planning on going low pressure with this gun. And some other goodies also. Is it worth it for me to invest in this, or should I get a newer Autococker? Sorry for all the questions, and thanks for the help!

[zenmaster]

sounds like a '97 to me... if the sight rail is all squared off it might be older... also, the valve's spring will be shorter than the '98+ spec

[vantrepes]

If you want to run it at LP, you may want to get the valve chamber drilled out to 2001 specs. It will help prevent shoot down.

[PEA]

What do you mean the sight rail is squared off? How can you tell?
What would I need to get to run low pressure? I'm running CO2, is it possible for me to run low pressure? or would I have to switch to compressed air?

Any minuses having a 1997 as compared to a newer Autococker?

Thanks again...

[vantrepes]

Click here, and look at the second picture (http://www.joinme.net/vantrepes/red.htm)

Look above the barrel, the sight rail looks the same as that on both ends. A 98 cocker has them sloped down in the front, and rounded in the back.

As for any down sides to an older cocker, other than the size of the valve chamber, and the lack of the timing hole, not really. Both of those can be fixed by a good tech, and it won't cost much.

To run LP, you can do it on co2, but compressed will work better.
You would need these parts to get REALLY low pressure:
Tornado Valve
Lightning Bolt
Barrel will little porting

Any of those parts will lower your pressure, but you're better off getting a HP system, and the body worked on first

[frenchtoastdude]

I agree I think it sounds like a 97 too

[zenmaster]

HPA only works 'better' for LP mods because of it's crappy shots per fill count. Set your gun up efficiently, and if you're running CO2, you'll be able to shoot all day =^)
you should at least get the body drilled out to '98 spec, and add the top timing hole. Having it mod'ed to 2k spec on the front end will req. a new front block and bolt.

Since you've already got the gun, just go ahead and trick the crap out if it, budget permitting, of course. Either tune the internals or buy aftermarket, get an inline reg, and just try to get it tweaked for an efficient setup. now, the lowest low-p guns don't always equal the highest efficiency, so don't concern yourself w/the numbers. My gun only runs at 300 psi, but has shot about a 1/2 case on a 12oz fill... not that bad...

[PEA]

Ok... this is what I have right now...
97' cocker (I think)
14" Dye Aluminium
ANS Jackhammer II front reg.
Shocktech Derin Superfly bolt
20oz C02 with remote

This is what I'm planning to do... I want to setup the gun so that it will be the most efficient, and I want it be able to pinch a ball instead of chopping it... To do this I'm planning...
RAT II/RAT 3:16/ANS valve (which one is best for the price, or can I use the stock one?)
ANS Gen-X 2/AA Black Ice (not sure which one to get, which one will have faster recharge and is more consistant and will work good on CO2 and HPA?)
LP chamber (do I need it? Can I use it instead of enlarging the size of the valve chamber?)
hammer kit (do I need it?)
spring kit (do I need it?)
Do I need anything else? I'm also of thinking of going HPA, but will I see that much of an improvment?

I'm also thinking of getting the WDP Hinge trigger with a shocktech bomb 3/4way...

Sorry for all the questions, but I want to make the best choices for my Autococker... Thanks for all the help so far!!!

[vantrepes]

Well, if you get a Black Ice, you will REALLY REALLY want to get HP first, they do not like CO2 at all. Gen-X will be a little more tollerant of it, but not much. If you want to run CO2, get either a Palmers Stabilizer, or a PMI Pure Energy inline reg. I set up a gun with a PMI, and the reg suprised the hell out of me, I figured it would be crap, but it was keeping within +/- 3fps on CO2.

If you want the most shots per tank, you want to get parts with as litte resistance to the gas as you can. Less wasted energy means a lower pressure is needed to propel the ball. Also, a good paint to barrel fit will make a huge difference, you may want to look into getting a few barrels that match the paint you shoot most offten.

The stock valve can be altered to run at a lower pressure, but it does OK as is. I have a RATT II, and like it, but there isn't a huge difference between the new stock valve and the RATT. With the older stock valves, it was MUCH better, but the new stock valve are catching up.

On springs, you want a balanced spring set. Some people try to get LP by putting in a super heavy hammer spring, so the valve is open longer, but it turns you gun into a gas hog. A If you get a softer hammer spring, and a softer valve spring, you can lower the recocking pressure, and it will be less likely to chop.

You can also send your gun to Pro Paintball, and have them True Bore it. They over bore the upper tube, and polish it. This cuts down on the resistance on the bolt, and lets you lower the recocking pressure some more.

A heavier hammer will help with the "pinch a ball" goal, but it will only help if you use a softer hammer spring.

For a 97 cocker, if you don't get the valve drilled, you do need a LPC if you want to run anything below 350 or so. Of course, you can use the LPC and get the valve drilled. In this case more is better. The more pre-regulated air that is in chamber, the sell of a change in pressure each shot will make, so the reg will have less of a pressure change to make up for.

Basicly, each of these changes will help some, but to get the full effect, you will need to make all the changes. It can be done all at once, or over time. Your budget will control that one.

[PEA]

vantrepes... Thanks for all your help so far! I've looked at your webpage and you use the older Autocockers. I'm wondering how come you don't use a newer Autococker? I'm a student and I'm unemployed at the moment, so buying everything at once is out of the question for me. I'm probally be buying bit by bit. What do you think I should get first? I'm still can't decide if I should get a BlackIce or Gen-X 2 or some other AA regulator (I can get a BlackIce cheaper then the Gen-X 2). What would be more consistent and with a better recharge rate? One last thing... What would be the benifits of getting the timeing hole drilled to adjust the sear lug (except for the obvious of adjusting the timeing thru the top and not having to take off the grip, which I don't mind too much).

Sorry for all the questions...

[vantrepes]

Why don't I have newer guns? Well, the two I have are just the way I like them, no need for newer guns.

On the regs, if you use a Black Ice with CO2, you are going to be replacing the reg seat over and over, and it just won't work well.
A gen-X reg will handle the CO2 better, but recharges slowly. If you want a reg for CO2, get a Stabilizer, or a PMI.

The top timing hole does a few things:
Makes it MUCH easier to fine tune the timing of the gun
Lets you use newer hammer kits with the 1/4-28 lugs
Lets you use rounded lugs for a better trigger feel.
Get it done, it's well worth it.

[PEA]

I'm thinking of getting the Pure Energy regulator (how does it compare to the Black Ice?), since no one here carries the Palmer Stabilizer and I can get the Pure Energy regulator cheaper then any other of the regs out there (or should I get a Mac Dev Gladiator?)... Will this be any good for HPA? Will their be any shoot down? I can't shoot that fast, but I'm planning on a hinge trigger and bomb 3-way, so I should be able to lay down some paint... hehe

Also, I was wondering if you knew the difference between the RAT II and the RAT 3.16?

Thanks again!

[PEA]

I almost forgot... One last thing... I heard from one of the pro shops here that it's useless regulating CO2. The reason they gave me is because change in tank pressure from temperture changes and the overall inconsistent nature of CO2... Is this true?

[vantrepes]

It's not useless to regulate co2. If you dont regulate co2, the pressure your gun gets from the bottle is changing with the air temp, how much you shoot, if the tank is in the sun, ect ect. Oh, and modern cockers won't work without a reg on them, no matter what gas they are using. Sounds to me like he wants to sell a HP tank more than a reg.

How does the PMI compare to a black ice? Well, it isn't in the same class as a Black Ice. It works well, but it isn't the best. It isn't the worst either, it's a good mid price reg.

Rat II= stainless steel body Rat 3:16=aluminum
They may have made some slight design changes, but I couldn't see them holding both of them side by side.