thinking about a shocker

[in trauma]

are they high maintanace

how any shots should i get of a 20oz anti siphon?

do you get more shoots of a tank with the high pressure mod?

[JorynnRace]

I don't know why anyone in their right mind would get the high pressure mod. Maybe there are some good valid reasons, but in my mind, that would defeat a lot of the shockers reason for being such a good gun.

The low pressure allows for almost non-existent ball chopping (I am not exagerating here... c4pyro has yet to chop a ball on his year old shocker)
Yeah they can be a gas hog if improperly timed. pyro can get a whole bunch of shots out of a 68/3000 with his set up. (roughly 500-600+, but he uses a 114/4500 now, which is besides the point.)
I couldn't tell you how many shots you'd get from a 20 oz CO2... someone else might be able to help you there.... (anyone?)
at any rate, IMO getting the high pressure mod would be kinda silly.

You would have to be more specific about your definition of high maintenance.

Shocker maintenace basically consists of taking out the bolt/hammer and regreasing it after every day or so of playing. pyro tells me that the shocker loves the grease :) Then every once and a while you have to clean out your max-flow reg.

And thats about it. Its probably half the maintenace compared to my intimidator. Its more then a spyder, but probably about the same time lenghth it takes to clean and oil a model 98 (without the pain in the butt springs and clam shell shiat)

[in trauma]

any things i should look for when buying a used one?

you covered the maintainance for me

[C4pyro]

Hey....shocker maintanace....not too bad.....there is a little more to it then just regreasing the bolt but it doesn't take very long after you ahve done it a few times.

Just generally look at the over-all appearance of the gun...if the body and stuff looks likje its in good condition generally it will mean that the person takes good care of it...as well just take out the bolt and see if there are some deep scratches or severe wearing on it...if this looks good to it means that they new what they were doing when the cleaned it and it should be in fairly good condition. and make sure that when you pull that bold out that it is covered in dow 33. If its not then the person who owned it doesn't know crap about it. Anything else you wanna know just PM me.

[AutocockerFreak]

Shockers are only good for playing back in my opinion. But if you are a back player you should get one or if you play upfront get a bushmaster

[C4pyro]

Kay....you can't say that shockers are for back players only cause I can play front just as well as anyone else with my shocker and I have no problems...I even bunkered some punk last sunday. Plasma69 was there. But anyways. Just get what you want and what you think willbe most beneficial for your game play.

[Sid]

Ugg.. did you just say Bushmaster in the Shocker forum.. egad.

Bushmasters are twice the height of a shocker. If you can't play front with a shocker and a 12 inch barrel, you can't do it with anything.

[in trauma]

i a a id to front player that sometimes plays back when no one else will

i also am not the fastest runner out there

i have a very fast finger

and i dont want a bushmaster!!

[Sid]

Let'd put it this way. C4pyro has had his Shocker for a long time.. I have never seen him break a ball.. and I mean never. A bunch of guys in our area have eclipse shockers and they love them and can't say enough good things about it.

Last week, C4pyro bunkered somone with it.. and he had the 16" barrel on it. Yeah C4pyro is a really good player, but you get what I'm saying.

[C4pyro]

It was my 14 inch barrel but whats 2 inches when you ahve a 114 ci 4500 tank....thats one big freaking tank but anyways....flashes point is well stated.

[Diablo78370]

Im getting a Shocker here on monday.

Its used, its a 2000 4x4.

I cant wait tell i get it all the people here talk so much crap about Smart Parts but i think they are a great company. But where i live its a Bob Long driven town and a ICD town. Well WDP and WGP to, but there is no Smart Parts owners here not even a tech. If anyone knows of a good Smart Parts tech in the Texas area then could you shout me a holler. If i cant find a tech then i guess ill have to learn the gun all by myself. But thats cool im willing to do that for this gun.

I swear everyone ive told that im getting a shocker has laughed in my face and asked, why? I always tell them that they have the accuracy of a cocker if not more so, they have volume (and in speed ball thats what most people are after) and they are some of the best damn guns built. But everyones reply is but they are so heavy and damn long. I guess people have forgotten that the barrel that comes with them is detachable. But i played with an old school 99 pure stock and it wasnt heavy at all. And i completly loved it. But still everyone around her is saying that Smart Parts is worse then Tribal Pball Products (and they dont exist anymore) but ive heard that Smart Parts is the most responsive company out there, who should i believe.

Ohh and shocker owners how is the speed on the gun is it worth getting a Halo for. And does anyone know how to switch a N2 head with a C02 head im gonna convery my 68 to co2 so that way i can get more shots through my gun since the shockers seem to love that co2( dont worry i have anti-siphon already orderd to put on the gun) But can you guys just throw out some more comments about the shocker. thanks a lot

[Archer99]

I don't think that the current price for the HALO loader is worth the performance difference you will see on a shocker. I am on my second shocker now, a 2001 V-sport with a Glacier AT, my first being a 2000 S/F (which is for sale!). I have to say that I have chopped a ball once. It was right after I got my s/f and I was trying to learn to time it. I had already pinched 50 balls playing with the bolt timing, and I finally broke one. I looked at my reg and it was sitting on 200psi, so I most likely would not have been able to chop through the shell of the ball if I had had it down around 180.
Speed wise, you are gonna be hard pressed to get a shocker to shoot over 12bps, My glacier board can go over that, but the internals simply cannot move that fast to keep up. Stock shockers will have a 11.25bps limit. That is still pretty dang fast, but a good revy should be able to keep up. If you don't have a revy yet, be sure to buy one of the newer ones with the X-board. I have an old vl 12v revy that doesn't have the delay of the BE revys. It averages just under 12bps feed rate which is perfect.
I will say that the leverswitch triggers are better than the domeswitch. They are easier to shoot a nice rythym with and don't "skip" as much. I have used both extensively. You can convert yours to a leverswitch if you get a glacier board, but they are expensive. The newer LS models use a different trigger than the domeswitch models, and the glacier boards are designed to work with the dome trigger, but they can be modified to work with the new style triggers as well.
My 2001 vertical is only slightly lighter than my older s/f, but it really looks a lot smaller. I guess its an optical illusion, because I weighed them both on a butcher scale with parts stripped, and the difference is small. My right feed shocker always fed fine too, except when I would lean too far right out of a bunker, then it would just pinch (most other guns would have chopped).
Maintenence is pretty easy. It is intimidating at first when you see diagrams in the manual, but its really no problem, just do it in a clean area. Dow33 is sticky and will pickup any dirt like a magnet. Also note that dow33 only has a shelf life of a few months. They sell it in 2 versions light, and medium. You want the medium if you buy it from a lubricant company. I got a 5.3 oz tube from this place. They had the best price I could find. I keep mine in hypodermic needles. It makes it easy to grease the internal parts of the bolt piston. http://www.escopro.com/ecom/lubricants_2.htm

Heres a page I made about a shocker trigger job:
http://home.naxs.com/nberry4/Shocker%20Trigger%20Job/Shocker%20lever%20switch%20trigger%20job.htm

Oh yeah... BUY MY SHOCKER. Its a nice-un. Both the used shocker I bought, had to have trigger jobs, and timing work done to them when I got them. If you buy mine,you won't have to tinker with it, just gas it up, pop on a hopper of paint, and it will shoot great. 11.25bps full auto no probs with a good revy. It even has a sight rail installed if you want to add a red-dot, sight, or scope. Lots of lube included.

[in trauma]

i think you are a bit off i shot some shockers and go them to about 14bps i know exactly why 12bps sounds like

hear is a clip

http://www.blueridge.net/~pmfaini/12bps.wav

that is my tippmann 98 shooting 12bps and i have gotten some dudes eclispe shocker faster than that

[Archer99]

Like I say, I have 2 shockers, and have read extensively on them. All stock shockers (except for the newest ls boards) are fire limited to 11.25 bps maximum. Check out the SP shocker on their site. www.smartparts.com Look in the timing section and you will see the max timing-11.25.
The company that makes the Glacier board www.exarin.com
also has done extensive testing in shocker speeds, I spoke with their lead tech Kurt, as well as John at Hypersportworks, both said that the fastest shockers they have ever seen shot 13bps for a few strings.
Heres a review of the glacier board with some notes on shocker speed http://www.docsmachine.com/shocker/glacier.html
here is the quote:
"Technically, the Glacier's maximum cadence is 11.5 cycles per second, whereas the factory Shocker is supposedly limited to 11.2/sec. According to KM2, they tried faster ROF, but the gun itself cannot cycle reliably at speeds above the 11.5/sec ceiling. It is, I believe, a combination of solenoid capabilities and the gun's low-pressure, high-volume air requirements.
At rates of fire above 11.5, the gun starts to have trouble recharging, and you end up with "blooper" shots. And that assumes a well-maintained, top-condition gun, too.
In any case, chances are you'll probably find that the gun works best at a lower maximum ROF. I set mine for ten/sec and it seems to work great. Again, I'll definitely be experimenting with it more, but ten shots a second is still wickedly fast."

Don't worry about the ROF too much, shockers are still plenty fast enough.
:D

[in trauma]

ok i got some more questoins


the guy with the eclispe shocker was running at 160psi and just got his tank had 2500 left

well his balls would go out 25ft and hit the gorund before 30ft that is sucky the range was and i was like is that normal he said yeah nothing wrong with it
that has me worried to commiting to buy one

was something wrong with his gun?

is that normal?

also is white lithium good to lube the with?
where can i get a diagram/animation of the way a shocker works??

[Archer99]

If he was shooting his gun at 160 psi, he had to have his firing piston timing slowed down as low as it will go. Because the firing piston is "open" longer, it allows more gas to pass and lets you run a lower pressure to get 280fps. The downside is that it uses more gas and your tank will go down faster, plus if you try to shoot fast, the fire piston will be "dwelling' too long to keep up. This will cause the probs you describe. The gun trys to cycle, but the firing piston is halfway closed because its lagging behind. This doesn't provide enough air for a long string of quick shots, and the balls drop off.
I have always had good luck setting my firing piston to the fastest setting, and beginning timing there. You will probably have to run 180-185 psi to get 290fps or so, but the gun is still super quiet, will almost never chop, cycles faster, and get more shots per fill. The lower 160psi operating pressure is just not worth it for the probs it causes.

Just remember the goal in timing is not to get the lowest operating pressure, but the best feed and speed.

White lithium grease is used in some other guns, but never use anything in a shocker but Dow33 grease. Dow33 is classified as a silicone grease. Dow33 will still lubricate at extreme (-100F to 400F degrees) temperatures. It does acturally contain lithium soap as a thickener, but the temerature range is the big plus for those of us shooting co2.

Oh yeah, the shocker sport infosheet located on this page:
http://www.shockerowners.org/articles/articles.html has some info on how a shocker works. It was down when I checked a minute ago, but it was working a few days ago. IT basically shows how the air enters the solenoids and is diverted to the bolt and firing piston. One solenoid (sh4000) works the bolt back and forth with the excess gas shooting out the side of the gun where the air assist goes. While the other solenoid (sh3000) fires the gun with a pre measured amount of gas (consistency).

[in trauma]

his wasnt shooting far beacuse he had his pressure to low and his timming was off?

also thanks for all your help

[C4pyro]

This is a really good diagram.....will actually show it in a slow mo firing sequence.


http://www.hypersportworks.com/workingsFrame1Source1.htm

[Archer99]

His pressure and timing were not necessarily off. He may have wanted to run the lowest pressure possible, but at that setting, the internals are slowed down to the point they can only shoot around 8-9bps. I fiddled with my 2001 Glacier V-sport today and finally got it shooting 12bps with no dropoff and great feeding. Glacier boards are capable of higher rates of fire than the stock board, and the timing is more precise, but you are still limited by the cycle time of the internals fo the gun. I am tickled pink to get that speed but will probably never use it!

It all depends on what you want to do with your shocker where the timing is concerned. The lower the pressure you want to use, the slower the gun can cycle. If you want a faster ROF you will need to expect to run 180 psi and above. I personally like to be able to get on the trigger without shootdown. It is a TINY bit quieter with lower pressure, but its not worth the tradeoffs IMHO. I mean, the whole purpose is to keep from chopping paint, and if it doesn't chop at 180 psi, why go lower?

Hey I put my shocker sf on ebay. There are links to me shooting the gun in full auto if you want to hear what a shocker shooting 11.25bps looks and sounds like.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1012507936

[Diablo78370]

I just did a lil tech search for texas and it looks like i will have to send my gun to houston if my shocker decides not to work one day. But that only going ot be for major problems. It looks like i will have to learn this beast of a gun till i can fix problems myself. Ohh well it wont be that hard i guess, ill just have to study how the gun actually shoots and what not.

Are you sure, like somewhat dead sure that the shocker can only get 11.25bps-12bps. I was kinda hopeing for 13 or 14. Ohh well as long as it is fast enough to help me in my back man position. I was after the shockers speed/accuracy anyways.

Hmm what else did i have to ask i had another question but now i cant remember what it was. Ohh yeah where should i go to ask people how to knock of a n2 head and put a co2 head on a tank. Since i need more air for my shocker. I hear that 20oz's only get 800 shots and i know i shoot way more then that in tourneys so ill just know the head off my 68. BUt i was just seeing if any of you knew how to do it. THanks a lot.

[Archer99]

Yeah I'm sure about the shockers speed. 12 is pretty dang fast for a shocker, and running long at 13 is asking to damage the solenoids. Rates of over 11.25 are only available on the Glacier boards. I hear that the new LS boards can be setup to 13, but they are not full auto anyway, unless you count turbo. Currently I think you can use 9bps turbo mode in tourneys. My glacier has dip locks inside to make it tourney legal. People exxagerate bps speeds anyway. With a shocker shooting 11.25bps its bad for the other guy, because unlike some other markers, the shockers shots all go where they are aimed.
I dunno about hpa head to co2 head swaps. I use a 24oz anti-siphon co2 tank on my shocker and fill it with only 22 oz to use the extra space for expansion. I get just over 800 shots myself, but thats plenty for me. You can buy the 68cu co2 tanks for shockers, but you are looking at packing around 32oz of co2 and thats getting heavy. Some folks shoot that much though. I saw an ad on warpig.com classifieds that had a boomy and a 68cu co2 for a shocker, both for $100.
I would go ask over at the pbnation.com shocker forum about the tank head swap.

[in trauma]

archer

you should fill your tank to 24 cause when you fill a tank it is only 34% liquid

i read a think on a web site that told me that

that is why an angled tank helps keep liquid out too

[Archer99]

Heres where you probably read the 34% info: http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/gasses/co2dynamics.shtml
Another good page is here:
http://www.wavecomputers.net/~robert/paint/co2fill.html
Both recommend not filling your tank completely, but underfilling by about 15% or so. When I fill mine up, I always seem to get some liquid the first few shots. It tends to make the regulator so cold it will creep up. Its ok to fill up completely, as long as you start using your tank quick and don't (duh) leave it out in the sun. I've seen some guys burst their disks in the sun. Scared the heck out of me.

My team has our own 50lb fill station, and to save co2 we usually just hot fill so we only get around 75% full anway, but thats just when we're playing for fun. If we are playing a rival team, we will chill the tanks even though it wastes about 2-3 oz of co2.
We're poor!

[Diablo78370]

sounds good.

Yeah i didnt really count on the shocker being really fast but i wanted it to be faster then a cocker.

Well ill try to find a person with a 68cu tank for me to buy.


Does anyone know where there is some vids of shockers shooting. thanks a lot.

[Diablo78370]

hey archer on those ebay vids what mod is the gun in. If those are in semi you wont have any trouble finding a buyer. Man i would buy your gun but im getting mine tomorrw (closes eyes and crosses fingers).

[C4pyro]

Kay question diablo. Do you have a 68/3000 cause if you do I can tell you something. You can fill them with co2. A hpa tank is the same alluminum tanks just fibre wrapped. So you could get your anti syphone put on that tank. And because the tank will hold 3000psi, it won't matter if you you leave it in the sun because co2's general max pressure is 800psi. Do you have any local proshops around your area? The should be able to take the valve head of your hpa and just install your anti-syphone on it.

What kind of tank to you have.......? Just wondering cause I may be able to guide you in how to do it or at least give you a general idea so you don't go buying something that you don't really need to replace this tank.

[Diablo78370]

i have a 68/3000 psi standard

[C4pyro]

Its a scre in right.

I will assume. If it is the top asa part should have two sections. One part is permanatly in the bottle and the asa part is a combo of a screw in asa, gauge and regulator to get the psi down to 800 psi from 3000psi. That regualtor gauge asa piece comes off and you are left with what looks like a threded hole in the tank. You should then be able to add the anti-syphone to the reg, asa, guage section (head) and put it back in.

I don't know all the details of this process but I have seen it doen and any local proshop should be able to do it. Its not much different then changing the head on a standard co2 tank.

Hope this helps

[Archer99]

Diablo, thats the gun firing in Full-Auto. It will fire that fast in semi, but you pull your shots off a tiny bit fanning the trigger. In FA it just pours them out in a nice straight line. It will shoot that fast in SA, but you have to have a quick trigger finger. Heres the link to the trigger mod I did on that gun.
http://home.naxs.com/nberry4/Shocker%20Trigger%20Job/Shocker%20lever%20switch%20trigger%20job.htm

[Diablo78370]

good stuff