Possibly something new from OTB?

[Surreal]

http://www.offthebreak.com/Blind_Scene1_Final.jpg

i happened to be poking around on their site, and i found this. looks pretty neat, let me know what you guys think :)

[[Infusion]BigC]

Neat idea.

It may work.

Seems like one of those things that would only work some of the time though.

I'll wait and see what I here about it...

[MrBo]

oo looks pretty cool.. guess it just has a soft front on the bolt? wonder when they will release this..

[nerdcore]

i wonder what the front is made of?

[spor]

They have develloped a new from of like rubber that has cellular memory and is really soft.
They use it for pen grips(Pentec Cloud 9)

I think that's what it's made of.

[Cuervo]

If your eye works, why bother?

[Blacksheep]

*Bangs head*

I swear I thought the thing above the bolt was a hopper and this was some for of "bolt block" that would prevent the bolt from hitting the ball or something...

Wow...I'm dumb...

EDIT:
What the...? I didn't post that! Hmmm...

[SpUnKy-BoLtOn]

that would be a great alternative to vision IMO.

[nerdcore]

Originally posted by Cuervo
If your eye works, why bother?

not every marker has an ace.

[Xanthro]

Plenty of markers won't chop the ball even if they pinch it, unless the marker automatically resets itself, I don't see much point in having a flexible end.

Since it can bend inwards, this means if you don't have a very nice bolt to breech fit, air can blow around the bolt and fold it inward and cause major blowback.

Xanthro

[nerdcore]

Originally posted by Xanthro
Plenty of markers won't chop the ball even if they pinch it, unless the marker automatically resets itself, I don't see much point in having a flexible end.

Since it can bend inwards, this means if you don't have a very nice bolt to breech fit, air can blow around the bolt and fold it inward and cause major blowback.

Xanthro

and let's say it gets packaged wrong & it's in a permanently warped state (we've seen rubber/plastic/etc packaged wrong... real hard to straighten it, if possible at all). these bolts may be too soft.

[Cuervo]

Originally posted by nerdcore


not every marker has an ace.

And no marker without ACE is capped above the feeding capabilities of a HALO or Z-board Eggy.

Why use a bolt to fix a problem in your hopper?

[Blacksheep]

Actually...if they just sit too long on one side they will get screwed up if they are anything like paintballs...

[nerdcore]

Originally posted by Cuervo
And no marker without ACE is capped above the feeding capabilities of a HALO or Z-board Eggy.

Why use a bolt to fix a problem in your hopper?

so you're saying markers without ACEs never have bolt-related chops, they only have feed-related chops? i'm sure some ACE-less markers have bolt problems that could be solved by a softer bolt.

[Cuervo]

Don't try to argue with me until you know what a "chop" is. Get out of here, go make your cocker shoot farther.

[nerdcore]

Originally posted by Cuervo
Don't try to argue with me until you know what a "chop" is. Get out of here, go make your cocker shoot farther.
well that wasn't very nice. you don't need to throw a newb reference at me.

chop - ball obliterated by bolt.

there. now to elaborate on feed-related chops:

hopper doesn't feed fast enough, the bolt will CHOP the ball before it's completely in the chamber. if it feeds too fast, the bolt will force one ball into another before they leave the chamber, which can be both a break and a CHOP.

and to add some relevance:

if this bolt is truly soft enough, it may be less inclined to CHOP balls. and don't eyes have difficulty 'seeing' darker colored shells, like rps big balls? in that instance, a softer bolt would be beneficial.

judo CHOP!

[i like tictacs]

you can always chop with any kind of bolt, regardless, all depends on paint, ACE is the only thing to completely eliminate chops

[Cuervo]

Originally posted by nerdcore

well that wasn't very nice. you don't need to throw a newb reference at me.

chop - ball obliterated by bolt.

there. now to elaborate on feed-related chops:

hopper doesn't feed fast enough, the bolt will CHOP the ball before it's completely in the chamber. if it feeds too fast, the bolt will force one ball into another before they leave the chamber, which can be both a break and a CHOP.

and to add some relevance:

if this bolt is truly soft enough, it may be less inclined to CHOP balls. and don't eyes have difficulty 'seeing' darker colored shells, like rps big balls? in that instance, a softer bolt would be beneficial.

judo CHOP!
I've got it on record. You don't know what a chop is. A chop, strictly speaking, is when the bolt makes contact with a ball that's only partially in the chamber and actually chops the ball in half. A chop is, by definition, a FEED problem.

Now, you're wrong again about what causes them. Only a slow hopper will cause chops. If the ball isn't all the way in the breach when the bolt comes forward, it chops. Feeding too fast doesn't cause chops; the balls don't hit the bottom of the breach and then bounce back up the feedneck.

Now, a barrel break is when a ball is fully in the breach and the pressure of the air itself breaks the shell of the ball (yes, it has to be the pressure of the air, because even closed bolt markers can have barrel breaks.)

You also described double feeding which is a problem with detent strength, as on Angels. Angels don't have strong enough detents and HALOs put too much force on the ball, so there are times when a ball will roll past the detents. This results in one ball being fired into another ball, causing both to break.

Only crappy eyes (see also: Impulse Vision) have problems with dark paint. Eblade eyes, WAS eyes, Timmy eyes, etc all have no problems at all. Angels use the Peizo sensor which, again, doesn't have those problems. And no, a softer bolt wouldn't really help; to me, it sounds like the bolt would jam if it ever had to stop a chop. Or, maybe worse, the bolt would stop, the air would be released (meaning paint is sprayed down the barrel AND up the feedneck, since the bolt wouldn't go all the way forward), then the bolt would be recocked.

If you can't get an electronic anti-chop system, lower your bolt's force. On spool valves (Matrix), that means getting a good LPR. On Mags, that means adding a stronger spring and allowing it to vent the air if it doesn't fire (Level 10.) On a stack-tubed blowback, find the perfect strength main spring (Spyder.)

And I'll reiterate: if there's no electronic anti-chop system for your gun, it's probably not capped high enough to exclude a better hopper from fixing all your chopping problems.

[shortman506]

i can find a few things wrong with this bolt. firstly if the bolt is so soft will it deform under pressure and when shooting the ball? also if the bolt gets bent stopping the shot of the ball, how long will it stay bent? also it looks dumb:P

[nerdcore]

Originally posted by Cuervo
I've got it on record. You don't know what a chop is. A chop, strictly speaking, is when the bolt makes contact with a ball that's only partially in the chamber and actually chops the ball in half. A chop is, by definition, a FEED problem. i said that. the bolt will "chop" the ball when it isn't completely in the chamber.

Now, you're wrong again about what causes them. Only a slow hopper will cause chops. that's the same as "hopper isn't fast enough," which i also said.

Feeding too fast doesn't cause chops; the balls don't hit the bottom of the breach and then bounce back up the feedneck. wouldn't the ball get chopped on the way up?

Now, a barrel break is when a ball is fully in the breach and the pressure of the air itself breaks the shell of the ball (yes, it has to be the pressure of the air, because even closed bolt markers can have barrel breaks.) i didn't even bring up breaks.

You also described double feeding which is a problem with detent strength, as on Angels. Angels don't have strong enough detents and HALOs put too much force on the ball, so there are times when a ball will roll past the detents. This results in one ball being fired into another ball, causing both to break. true, technically no chop occurs there.

Only crappy eyes (see also: Impulse Vision) have problems with dark paint. Eblade eyes, WAS eyes, Timmy eyes, etc all have no problems at all. Angels use the Peizo sensor which, again, doesn't have those problems. And no, a softer bolt wouldn't really help; to me, it sounds like the bolt would jam if it ever had to stop a chop. Or, maybe worse, the bolt would stop, the air would be released (meaning paint is sprayed down the barrel AND up the feedneck, since the bolt wouldn't go all the way forward), then the bolt would be recocked. we'll have to wait for the bolt to be released to find out.

And I'll reiterate: if there's no electronic anti-chop system for your gun, it's probably not capped high enough to exclude a better hopper from fixing all your chopping problems. heard rumors of new boards coming out. might prove this statement wrong but that, also, has to wait until those are released to be sure.

[i like tictacs]

I see problems with this. How is it going to change shape in an aluminum tube? Only way it could change shape would be to get smushed forward, which just makes a chop more likeley.

[sk8rpunk0000]

Here is a little video for you guys. Should clear things up a bit. (note that this is not the production bolt, only a prototype. Production bolt will be much nicer.)

VIDEO HERE (http://www.offthebreak.com/blind.wmv)

Andrew
(video is approx 2.66mb's)

[Chimpu]

Where do I find this bolt? And are they gogni to be making ones for autocockers?

[Cuervo]

i said that. the bolt will "chop" the ball when it isn't completely in the chamber.
You also defined a chop as other things. You can't shotugn the definition and hope you have the right one in there somehow. On a multiplce choice test, you can't mark all the answers and say you got it right.

that's the same as "hopper isn't fast enough," which i also said.
And immediately after, you went too far. You had the right answer in addition to a wrong answer. Hopefully you're learning from your mistakes.

wouldn't the ball get chopped on the way up?
If a single ball were fed with some mystical, perfect amount of force that wasn't enough to push it past the detents and was enough to cause it to bounce through the detents, sure. Non-forcefed hoppers do have feed gaps, but they dont have enough force. Forcefed hoppers don't have enough force and dont have feed gaps.

i didn't even bring up breaks.
Not specifically, but when you started characterizing breaks as chops, you did. Now you know the difference.

heard rumors of new boards coming out. might prove this statement wrong but that, also, has to wait until those are released to be sure.
Spyders have uncapped boards. Even with IS switches, no one claims to be able to outshoot an Eggy or HALO on an e-Spyder. The point is that there are MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better anti-chop systems on every gun that has a problem with outshooting hoppers, and if you're interested in the bolt, you'd be better served by a better hopper.

[joshuagore]

There are allot of concerns brought up here.

First one, the price will be comparable to most other bolts.

Second, the weight of the elastomer used on the tip of the bolt is much lighter than delrin.

Third, there is no friction because the seal between the breach and the bolt tip isn't constant. The bolt is undersized and the tip is tapered. Thin at the front and larger where it meets the delrin. When pressure builds behind the ball the elastomer expands and creates a better than o-ring seal because it fits the form of the breach.

As for the video the cut on the stock bolt is because we fired it and it pushed the ball up and out of the breach because it wasn't half way in the breach so we cut it there. We all know a Impulse with a delrin bolt doesn't stop on a ball very often but I garuntee our bolt stops on the ball every time.

Almost forgot the elastomer we are using has almost no memory. It is NOT a rubber it is a plastic. I could go into the differences but it really doesn't matter. Your grips you use there not rubber, and most anything flexible isn't really rubber its plastic, known as an elastomer. The elastomer we are using has virtually no memory, most guns that this bolt is made for would only really put constant pressure on the rubber during a breach pinch for only 5-30 milliseconds at tops. This is not enough time for the elastomer to bend and stay in place. The elastomer we are using would take in this situation about 10-15 minutes to be affected, and even at that length of time it probably wouldn't be affected enough to require a replacement.

These tips are replaceable and exchangeable for different diameter tips


I understand the concepts this bolt applies are hard to understand. Most paintball knowledge tells you that something like this doesn't work, but we know it does. We are using manufacturing techniques, and applying ideas that work OUTSIDE of paintball. Why limit

[Cuervo]

How does that work on closed bolt markers, then?

[Chimpu]

Woot cockers...