Ok, I have finaly narrowed it down, but...

[CyborgPB]

Ok, I have finally narrowed it down, and I have to get some help to make a choice of which gun I should get. First off, here is the list of accessory:

Face protection:
JT nVADER Goggles

Hopper and Elbow:
View loader 200 Loader
VL Elbow

CO2:
12 oz CO2 Bottle
A Bottle butt plate

Barrel Cleaning:
APP Python Pull Thru Squeegee
Pro Team Barrel Cleaner

Other Stuff:
Gun oil
Barrel Plug
misc. stuff

Now on to my dilemma. I want to get a good but relatively inexpensive beginners gun. I think I am going spyder, because it seems that everyone on this forum likes them. Ok, so I looked at the spyder page of http://www.xpaintball.com, and they have way too many choices. I did narrow it down to two though: Either a Spyder Compact 2000 Paintball Gun with a bottomline kit, or a Spyder Compact 2-in-1 Java Edition. Which one do you think is more unreadable, and which one is better. Any input is welcome, and thanks in advance!

[Ebonclaw]

My vote goes to the 2 in 1. Of course, there's a sight where you can get Rebel Xtremes for $129.99.........but if you have a choice of Spyders, take the 2 in 1.

[Ebonclaw]

Oh, and I'd get a new barrel and a 16 oz co2 stub instead.

[DontKillWhitey]

Yah spyders are great guns, you wont be let down. Id also recomend an after market barrel tho.

[AutocockerFreak]

$150 for a Spyder Xtra. Its a very nice marker and comes with drop forward, good barrel, and expansion chamber

[HondaRacer2120]

get the x-tra and u don't need an elbow or a barrel plug; they BOTH come with the gun:D

[AutocockerFreak]

Yeah get the Xtra they are alot better for only 50$ more. Also dont get Pro-Teams Barrel Cleaner. It biulds up this Teflon coat in your barrel that makes the bore get smaller than u break paint. A Squeegie will clean it out just fine

[HondaRacer2120]

also, i don't recommend a 12oz CO2 @ 80* ferinheight u get 800 shots BUT with a 20oz which costs like $6 more u get 1,333 shots so u don't have to fill as often;) great for backyard games where air isn't sold

[Head Hunter]

You simply want an affordable, reliable marker that you can easily get replacement parts for at your local store or mail order.

You don't want to have CO2 problems with higher rates of fire and cold weather play. So......

Don't get CO2 in the first place. Get air.

The difference between CO2 tank and a 48 ci 3000 bottle is about $45.

You can spend $45 on an expansion chamber, $15 on hoses and fittings and WILL STILL have CO2 problems.

If you don't get CO2, you don't have to buy a marker that has an expansion chamber already on it. And then you don't have to lug all that extra weight around.


CO2 makes your marker inherently INACCURATE as well. Each time you fire, a little liquid CO2 turns into gas. That cools the bottle and your markers internals. The cooling lowers the OPERATING PRESSURE of your marker. As you lower your operating pressure, your velocity drops, your ball drops sooner, you have to adjust your aim up a little, and it is harder to get a break on you opponent with a lower velocity. It will do that for each shot fired and when you pause, it 'warms up' and then it shoots faster, higher and you have to adjust your aim up. Then you repeat it. Your aim is high or low ALL DAY LONG.

An air bottle doesn't have this problem. It is worth every penny and the ONLY upgrade I can recommend in the Quest for Accuracy.

THEN THE NEWBIE GOES ON THE QUEST FOR ACCURACY AND PERFORMANCE:

Performance usually means rate of fire. (Which you can't aim while you're jerking it as fast as you can. Buy a full auto that you can aim while you shoot if you want speed.)

Accuracy usually means:
1. A tight group of 20 shots on a piece of paper or
2. Being able to hit your target. (which you can't do without #1 above)

Any marker out their will be much more accurate than the relatively new player firing it.

Seriously, It will take quite a few cases of paint before YOU can out perform your marker.

New players always make the same mistake.

They buy hardware to improve accuracy. Barrels, Venturi bolts, Low pressure, etc. etc. And there are a million advertisments and stores that have "just what you need". I work in one of them.

The accuracy of a paintball marker is limited primarily by the one thing.

How round is the paint? Paint isn't round -PERIOD.

Field grade paint ($45/case) is .060 -.080 out of round.

Tournament grade paint ($80/case) is .015 -.025 out of round.

If you think about it for just ONE SECOND, you will realize all the hardware and aftermarket UPGRADES in the world can't help your ball fly straight the micro second it leaves the barrel.

If it isn't round, it won't fly straight!

So if you aren't going to shoot $80 a case paint, then don't spend money on upgrades that you will never see the benefit from on the playing field.

UPGRADES other than the air system give you only marginal improvements USING premium paint.

Most players buy the hardware first and use the inexpensive paint.

Somewhere along the line they try a hopper of the GOOD PAINT.

WOW! THEY SEE THE LIGHT! They see the improved accuracy in the first five shots! Then they buy the $80 a case paint from then on. They could have saved a lot of money on hardware..... The boys and I were among them.

SO:

1. Reliable marker with parts availability.
2. Air bottle that won't cost you more than a CO2 bottle, with an expansion chamber and hoses.
3. Start off with a bag of the good paint.

4. Go have fun and learn how to out perform your marker before you buy Hardware and upgrades.


The boys and I have played 7 years. We started with pumps. My youngest plays the most. He is the best of the three of us as a result and together we can hold our own against a winning tournament team playing rec ball.

Last time out. Chris would take out at least a third of the opposing team personnally. They whined after three games and he went to the other side and won three games for them. They shuffled other players around and him back and forth all day. At the end of the day he had been on the winning side of every game played that day. He died 3 times. Twice at the hands of his father (I know his moves) and once by friendly fire.
He had a better day than ususal.

The Newbies kept asking about if he was in the military or law enforcement and wanted to know about his 'upgrades'. No and None. They scratch their heads and walk away...

He uses an Antique Factory Stock Spyder One, Air bottle with a remote, 12 V Revolution Hopper, and that $80/case paint (Diablo Inferno) It is a nail driver accuracy wise with that paint. A 9 inch group at 25 yards. (and he can do that shooting offhand)

It is VERY light with the remote and no tank weight. It handles like a pistol. Points quick! It is short and light so it doesn't take nearly as much time to get it in and out of cover for a quick shot.

And he has experience..... Anyone that trys to trade paint with him head to head for more than 2 seconds is wearing his paint on their mask. He and I wind up in snap shooting contests. Max of two shots and trying to time it so your ball arrives when he pops out for his shot. That's the only way to get him... And he NEVER sets up a rhythm for when he pops out. Totally random intervals and most often from a different spot from behind his cover. Totally unpredictable.

And he is FAST! Not on the trigger but on TWO Feet!

Anyone that sets up a rhythm for staying down behind cover that lasts long enough for him to cover the ground between him and them, gets bunkered. And most players are willing to do just that especially if his old man is popping paint right on the edge of their cover.


He doesn't shoot a lot of paint either. It is rare that he goes through 1500 rounds in 8 hours of play and he is ALWAYS in the fight up front and making it happen. His kill ratio and shots per kill are absolutely outstanding.

He can out perform that Antique Spyder One but he doesn't really need a marker that can outperform him. Unless he wants to start playing tournament ball where that little edge can be utilized, he has all the marker he needs. Combined, he and his spyder can outperform every player on the rec field on most days.

And he rarely has a mechanical problem. He carries new Bolt O-rings, cup seal, sear spring, hammer spring, screws kit, and spare 9 volts for the revey. That fixes it. He can rebuild it on site if he needs to.

So technology does NOT make the PLAYER.

[Head Hunter]

Spyder Compact 2000-$120

http://www.kingmanusa.com/spyder/compact_2000.html

Spyder Classic-$180

http://www.kingmanusa.com/spyder/spyder_classic.html

Get the Classic if you can afford it.

The difference is the price of a bottom line set up (most aftermarket bottomlines wobble on the grip and people try to fix this and overtighten the screws)(get the Kingman Bottomline)AND

The Composite (plastic) trigger frame on the Compact has a bad habit of stripping threads where the bottom line attaches and just breaking out the bottom of the grip if you fall on it with a tank screwed into it.

The Classic comes with a factory kingman bottomline and has an aluminum frame that will take some abuse. Worth it.


Revolution 12 Volt hopper - $60.

Nitro Duck or equivalent 48 ci 3,000 psi. - $100
Roughly equal to a 20 oz tank #shots and weight.

JT wide angle THERMAL mask. $60

At least 500 bag of Diablo Inferno, Marbilizer, or Allstar. - $25 /500

Marker $180
Air Tank $100
Hopper $ 60
Mask $ 60
Paint $ 25
________________________
Total $425

Go Play!

and then shoot a bag of the cheap paint and notice how many shots didn't go where you were aiming and decide if you would be dollars and sense ahead spending more on paint that goes where you aim it.

[Wuzup101]

It may not be prudent to use a low pressure brittle tourney paint such as rps allstar or diablo inferno in conjunction with a stock spyder. I would stick with marbs...which are also a high quality paint but won't break in a high pressure marker as easily. Just a thought. :)

[Shazaam]

If you check out www.lowpaintballprices.com ... they have free shipping to anywhere in the USA and Canada. It is a great site and i reccomend it for any marker... Spyder compact 2000 is 84$ here http://www.piratepaintball.com/kingman_intl.html (lowpaintballprices.com) and you can get a sweet package for really cheap
:eek: