Pipe or Driver?

[Ihaveaomen]

I'm looking for buy a barrel within the next few days, I can possibly spend the 150-200 on the pipe but i'd really rather not.

The Driver is so much cheaper and I heard its amazing... So i was wondering is the pipe that much better then the driver?

Looking at the reviews when a ball breaks in the pipe it pretty much cleans itself out.. Is the driver the same way?

Which should I go with?

[radishboy]

i say get a driver, but if you're really worried about roll outs, then get a pipe.

[ShadowWalker]

The driver is basically a one piece pipe. If you use one size paint most of the time, go for the driver.

[Ihaveaomen]

Can anyone find the evil driver? I looked on a few sites and cant find it. It was on pb-discounters.com but its sold out.

[ShadowWalker]

pbgear.com

[Ihaveaomen]

Not in stock =(

Guess i'll try to find the evil pipe cause I cant find the driver anywhere.

[Ehank3]

With a closed bolt marker, like the omen, the paint to barrel match is very important due to closed bolt markers not having ball detents to keep the ball from rolling down the barrel. With any closed bolt marker I would recommend a kit if you could afford it.

[Spartan 2]

I recommend a Kit for ANY gun even open bolt, paint to barrekl match does moe then just stops the ball from roling out, it's a important part in accuracy.

[radishboy]

Originally posted by Spartan 2
I recommend a Kit for ANY gun even open bolt, paint to barrekl match does moe then just stops the ball from roling out, it's a important part in accuracy.

no its not.

[Ehank3]

Originally posted by Spartan 2
I recommend a Kit for ANY gun even open bolt, paint to barrekl match does moe then just stops the ball from roling out, it's a important part in accuracy.

I'm definatly with you on this one Spartan, it is very important to have on a open bolt marker but it is almost needed on a closed bolt marker.

[Spartan 2]

IT IS a very important factor. you can have a nice set up like a viking, great reg and great consistant gun, but if your paint to barrel match is abd you could have a flux of 10-15 verses if you have a nice consistant barrel match- a flux of 2. thats is a BIG difference.

[wowcool]

Radish: Spartan's right and you're wrong, eat it and tell me how it tastes.:D

but aeriously, paint to barrel match is huge. consistency equals accuracy, and next to the air source your barrel is the most important part to consistency. match the paint to the barrel and things will work out nicely for you.

Thanks,
Me

[radishboy]

Originally posted by wowcool
Radish: Spartan's right and you're wrong, eat it and tell me how it tastes.:D

no, he "aeriously" isn't...

[wowcool]

haha that "s" key is right by the "a" key. oh yea...and spartan is right, its been tested. pleases explain why you dont believe whats already been proven time and time again.

Thanks,
Me

[radishboy]

Originally posted by wowcool
...and spartan is right, its been tested...

no, hes not. i promise.

and i know its been tested, i've tested it myself, and some other members on the forum have tested it also.

paint to barrel match is NOT a major factor in accuracy. anyone who thinks so is wrong, and you will always be wrong untill you change the laws of physics; so give it up. saying that it does over and over agian wont take it true.

[wowcool]

nono your word isnt good enough. i need evidence, show me the light. if you can prove your right i will be thankful, i dont want to be believing something thats wrong. im not trying to be rude to you but if what you say is true i want some solid proof.

thanks

[DirtMcgirt]

if i were you, i'd buy a large bore pipe back and a 14 inch front from http://www.rjskateworks.com

[DirtMcgirt]

if air is being released at a consistent pressure, the force is equal on every point where air hits the ball, and since there is room between the ball and the wall of the barrel but it's still small enough to be able to shoot the ball, the ball would not bounce around in the barrel like some claim. with a constant pressure being behind and surronding the ball, it would just be shot straight.

you lose.



The only test that has ever been done to disprove this was performed 10 years ago by Tom Kaye. He put powder on the insides of barrels of varying bores sizes and then blew a paintball through each. He noted that the closer the match, the straighter the lines in the powder.

The funny thing is, people actaully cite this little experiment as evidence. wow.

[Ehank3]

What if the ball is not a smaller diameter than the barrel, but larger? Then you break balls due to the ball being squeezed by the barrel with pressure behind it. I know you suggested a larger bore barrel to prevent this but isn't that a form or barrel to paint matching?? :)

[DirtMcgirt]

Originally posted by Ehank3
What if the ball is not a smaller diameter than the barrel, but larger? Then you break balls due to the ball being squeezed by the barrel with pressure behind it. I know you suggested a larger bore barrel to prevent this but isn't that a form or barrel to paint matching?? :)

I guess me and radish should have been more clear. the barrel bore size has to be greater than or equal to the ball size. If it's smaller, accuracy and the amount of balls you break will be affected.

[Ehank3]

Originally posted by DirtMcgirt


I guess me and radish should have been more clear. the barrel bore size has to be greater than or equal to the ball size. If it's smaller, accuracy and the amount of balls you break will be affected.

So your saying basically the barrel makes absolutely no difference to the accuracy of the marker at all, as long as the bore is larger than that of the paintball??? I do find this hard to believe. If you arer correct than my logic is f***ed up.

[green_goblin]

Originally posted by Ehank3


So your saying basically the barrel makes absolutely no difference to the accuracy of the marker at all, as long as the bore is larger than that of the paintball??? I do find this hard to believe. If you arer correct than my logic is f***ed up.

well the barrel makes a diff and the paint makes a diff, if the paint is too big itll cause problems, if its too small youll have problems, both extremes suck so you want a paint / bore match

[ShadowWalker]

Originally posted by Ehank3


So your saying basically the barrel makes absolutely no difference to the accuracy of the marker at all, as long as the bore is larger than that of the paintball??? I do find this hard to believe. If you arer correct than my logic is f***ed up.

The barrel makes a difference. The smoother it is the better. Take the stock barrel from say a spyder and then go to an ultralight or something, you'll notice a difference. Higher quality paint will shoot better also. The rounder the paint, the better it shoots.

[DirtMcgirt]

Originally posted by green_goblin


well the barrel makes a diff and the paint makes a diff, if the paint is too big itll cause problems, if its too small youll have problems, both extremes suck so you want a paint / bore match


wrong.

[wowcool]

ohhhh so thats why with sniper rifles(in real life) they make sure the barrels are bigger then the bullet so it doesnt fit properly? makes sense i guess...oh wait...they do make sure the bullet fits exactly in the barrel...huh i wonder why.


yea its a stretch comparing paintballs to firearms i know.

[radishboy]

oh my god he compared two tottaly different things! what are we going to do?!? :rolleyes:

[DirtMcgirt]

Originally posted by wowcool
yea its a stretch comparing paintballs to firearms i know.

realizing you're a moron is the first step toward complete retard rehabilitation.

[Ehank3]

I'm still not convinced one way or the other. Does anyone have any solid evidence?

[DirtMcgirt]

we'll have a video up soon.

[paintballermatt]

Ok you guys. I am sick and tired of you guys arguing over such a wrong point. Matching bore sizes to paint sizes has definitly been proven time and time again to improve the accuracy of the gun. Just do a search and you will find that this is the only right answer. These type of arguments are the are the types of things that really make me mad cause you guys have no idea what the h*** your talking about. Why do you think that almost every major team in the super 7, nppl or other such leagues use a barrel system with different bore sizes. Why do you think that Freaks, Pipes, and other kits are so popular? You guys are rediculous. DirtMcgirt your saying that a paint with a bore size too big will not affect you? Jeez your a noob. If you knew anything about paintball you would know that you would be chopping like crazy. And also, a small paintball in a large bore would role right down your barrel ecpesially since we are talking about a closed bolt gun here. While doing the powder test, they also found that a small paintball would accually bounce off the sides of the barrel as it traveled down the barrel. You guys not supporting the bore sizes havent shown any information supporting your evaluations on the barrel. A simple "wrong" or mentioning on someones spelling doesnt quite cut it and makes yourself look like a *******. You all realized what Wowcool meant on his rifle comparison and your trying to make him sound bad because you cant back your opinion up. Grow up and then you can say something.

[ShadowWalker]

Originally posted by DirtMcgirt
we'll have a video up soon.

are you blind "matt"? It's amazing that you are on a message board but can't read. You look like a giant weiner now.

I have heard a lot of teams may have the kits, but the ones with open bolt markers don't always use the tightest bore they can. Think about it...They are using extremely brittle paint, shooting very fast. We all know paint isn't perfect and can vary in size, even in the same bag. Sure it may only be one or two balls, but if one ball is slightly bigger than the rest you fitted the paint for, it can break. Now take into account that they are playing an extremely fast paced game, for money. If they have one ball break, it could screw them over. They don't always have time to clean their barrels during a game leaving them helpless pretty much.

[wowcool]

i would realize im a moron, except im too closed minded and full of myself, sorry.


im pretty sure physics wins here, but whatever you wanna think. either way everyone knows paint/barrel match increases effeciency and at the very least can't hurt accuracy. whatever floats your boat.

about the gun bullet barrel/ paintball barrel thing, i know its a huge stretch. pretty obvious, after all in a way people dont get hit by a bullet and yell "im out" or shoot someone else and scream "check yourself". im pretty aware of the differences here. still, thy have some likenesses. somethings moving at a high speed(obviously higher in a real gun) through a tube. my point was you wouldn't use the wrong caliber bullet in a gun. you want the bullet to fit extremely well in the barrel. i dont see why this idea wouldn't apply to shooting anything through a barrel. i can understand people not liking the military anology but sorry, political correctness isnt exactly my favorite thing on earth. also, being wrong comes naturally to me and i like to stick to my strengths.

[DirtMcgirt]

Originally posted by paintballermatt
Ok you guys. I am sick and tired of you guys arguing over such a wrong point. Matching bore sizes to paint sizes has definitly been proven time and time again to improve the accuracy of the gun. Just do a search and you will find that this is the only right answer. These type of arguments are the are the types of things that really make me mad cause you guys have no idea what the h*** your talking about. Why do you think that almost every major team in the super 7, nppl or other such leagues use a barrel system with different bore sizes. Why do you think that Freaks, Pipes, and other kits are so popular? You guys are rediculous. DirtMcgirt your saying that a paint with a bore size too big will not affect you? Jeez your a noob. If you knew anything about paintball you would know that you would be chopping like crazy. And also, a small paintball in a large bore would role right down your barrel ecpesially since we are talking about a closed bolt gun here. While doing the powder test, they also found that a small paintball would accually bounce off the sides of the barrel as it traveled down the barrel. You guys not supporting the bore sizes havent shown any information supporting your evaluations on the barrel. A simple "wrong" or mentioning on someones spelling doesnt quite cut it and makes yourself look like a *******. You all realized what Wowcool meant on his rifle comparison and your trying to make him sound bad because you cant back your opinion up. Grow up and then you can say something.


You know if you're going to argue a point (even if you are wrong) at least try to do it intelligently and save yourself a little decency.

Will paint to barrel match increase efficiency? Yes. Will it affect accuracy? No.

Bottom line: If you want to shell out $200 on a kit for your open bolt marker when you don't have to, you can. I'm just trying to save you kids a little cash.

[DShadow]

You want your paintball to fit in the barrle snugly not too big or too small. Either way you have problems

Anyone who says im wrong ask yourself why do they make the freak, the pipe, the kaner etc.

[radishboy]

Originally posted by DShadow
You want your paintball to fit in the barrle snugly not too big or too small. Either way you have problems

Anyone who says im wrong ask yourself why do they make the freak, the pipe, the kaner etc.

you're wrong.

they make barrel kits so you can match the bore size to the ball on a closed bolt gun to prevent roll outs.

you lose.

[paintballermatt]

So explain to me why they have spyder threaded barrels and such that are not closed bolt? Radishboy: Are you saying that you wouldnt want a bore match on a open bolt marker? Might wanna clear that up. And also when did i say anything about the tightest bore possible or anything about movie. My brother has the pipe and it drasticly increased his accuarcy but didnt have a noticable effect on the efficiency, while i do understand and agree with you guys on the efficiency point. I don't disagree that it will help your efficiency, but only a few shots more really. Get a bolt if you want to help your effiency and save yourself 100+ dollars. If the sole purpose of any bore-sized kit were to increase effeciency why would they charge 150+? And why do they advertise their accuracy increase over adding a few shots to your tank?

[radishboy]

Originally posted by paintballermatt
So explain to me why they have spyder threaded barrels and such that are not closed bolt?

hype. this will be explained later.

Radishboy: Are you saying that you wouldnt want a bore match on a open bolt marker? Might wanna clear that up.

as long as the bore of the barrel is greater than or equal to the ball.
And also when did i say anything about the tightest bore possible or anything about movie.

???

My brother has the pipe and it drasticly increased his accuarcy but didnt have a noticable effect on the efficiency,

thats because the pipe is an excellent barrel. tell him to use all the inserts and each one will be just as accurate regardless if there too big or the same as the bore of the paint (obviously too small of a barrel wont work out so good.

while i do understand and agree with you guys on the efficiency point. I don't disagree that it will help your efficiency, but only a few shots more really. Get a bolt if you want to help your efficiency and save yourself 100+ dollars. If the sole purpose of any bore-sized kit were to increase efficiency why would they charge 150+? And why do they advertise their accuracy increase over adding a few shots to your tank?

let me clear this up a bit. the purpose of a barrel kit is to increase accuracy, just like any other after market barrel, and to eliminate roll outs in closed bolt guns. someone decided it would be a great idea to say that a paint to barrel match is the primary factor of accuracy and everyone decided that it must be true.

[Ehank3]

Originally posted by DirtMcgirt
we'll have a video up soon.

so how about that video you promised dirty?

[DirtMcgirt]

Originally posted by Ehank3


so how about that video you promised dirty?


we've taped it but had to use the video function on a digital camera that would only allow us to tape for about a minute. The result is about 10 small clips. this is annoying. so, we're going to wait until we can obtain A REAL digital video camera and do it again.

if you'd like to know our setup, we're using an evil omen (vice mounted) with a j&j edge kit.

[Ehank3]

10 small clips are better than no movie at all.

[DirtMcgirt]

Originally posted by Ehank3
10 small clips are better than no movie at all.

it also would require a crapload of badwidth that i don't have. just wait. you will get your video.

[radishboy]

i just ordered the camera. cool your jets people. we can now take about 2 hours of digital video, so we should be ok.

[Evil_E]

Originally posted by radishboy


no, hes not. i promise.

and i know its been tested, i've tested it myself, and some other members on the forum have tested it also.

paint to barrel match is NOT a major factor in accuracy. anyone who thinks so is wrong, and you will always be wrong untill you change the laws of physics; so give it up. saying that it does over and over agian wont take it true.
the laws of physics say less friction better flow so if your paint to barrel is off it will slow balls making you use more air and effect accuracy. sorry but the laws of physics are agents you!

[candybar165]

you can get the driver at pbfanatics.com

[O'D]

Paint to barrel does matter, but it has less to do with the air propelling the paintball down the barrel and more to do with the construction of the paintball. First of all, paintballs are filled with liquid. They also have small air pockets inside the paintball. This means that the center of gravity of the paintball is not in the true center of the paintball. Anyone who has thrown a raw egg or a water balloon has noticed how the object wobbles uncontrollably when they throw it, speed this up to 300 fps and you can imagine what that would do to your accuracy. Secondly paintballs have seams. As the paintball spins the seams catch the surrounding air and create a small amount of drag. This drag on one side of the paintball will cause the paintball to veer of in one direction or the other. Take a look at the flatline barrel. The flatline barrel works by creating backspin, which creates a small amount of lift under the paintball, which helps the paintball stay in the air longer. Has anyone ever heard the flatline referred to as an accurate barrel? I never have. This is because you cannont control the location of the seams as the paintball leaves the barrel. Even with a consistent backspin, if the seams are oriented the wrong way it will cause additional drag on one side of the paintball and cause the paintball to curve, similar to a pitcher throwing a curveball. How does this relate back to the original argument concerning paint to barrel match? I'd like to borrow a quote from DirMcgurt that made reference to Tom Kaye's expiriment:

The only test that has ever been done to disprove this was performed 10 years ago by Tom Kaye. He put powder on the insides of barrels of varying bores sizes and then blew a paintball through each. He noted that the closer the match, the straighter the lines in the powder.

The funny thing is, people actaully cite this little experiment as evidence. wow.

Thank you for pointing out that the better the paint to barrel match, the straighter the lines. This means that the paintball is leaving the barrel with less spin, and with less spin will have a more consistent drag profile, which will lead to straighter shots.
So...To quote radishboy:
...you will always be wrong until you change the laws of physics...

[lotsoffun]

depends on the kind of paint your using. if you use a lot of different paint or dont have a specified team paint you should get a barrel kit. but otherwise I would suggest getting one barrel back and getting one barrel front. Unless your paint matches the driver.

[warped being]

^^you to revived a thread that was inactive for close to two years. Good job:dodgy:

[yams65]

The best price I have found for a Evil Pike kit is at www.ans-ion.com. The price was $79.99 for all 5 backs and a 14" tip. I have one and it is awsome. Great way to match the barrel to paint.

[karnivores r #1]

i like the pipe and the driver. if u use 1 size paint then just get a driver,.. try looking at www.actionvillage.com (http://www.actionvillage.com) . . . . . or try . . . . www.xpaintball.com (http://www.xpaintball.com) . . . . . or www.xtremepaintball.com

[pbrascal37]

yeah this thread is from 2004...holy dead thread revival batman..:eek:

[Uziel Gal]

I think we can assume that the person who originally asked this question has had ample time to make a decision between these two barrels, buy a new marker, get tired of it and quit paintball. Really no need to bring this thread back up.