milsim: why airsoft > paintball

[amzng_spyderman]

THIS IS NOT ABOUT SPEEDBALL VS. MILSIM OR WHY MILSIM SUCKS/DOESN'T SUCK. IF YOU WANT TO TELL ME THAT I SUCK OR JUST FLAME ME FOR ANY REASON, SEND ME A PM TITLED "YOU SUCK" INSTEAD OF SPAMMING THIS THREAD UP

i'll bet that title made the AGG guys crap their pants if they missed the word 'milsim.' but you've gotta face the facts. if you're into milsim/realistic guns & whatnot and you play paintball instead of airsoft, you're a hypocrite of sorts. why airsoft > paintball at the military simulation level:

(i'm mostly referring to tippmann markers and armotech markers, or other blowbacks with milsim accessories)

pb
airsoft

hoppers - ever see a real ak with a hopper? didn't think so.
magazines - more realistic any way you look at it. how many pb guns have magazines or clips? like, 2? been a while since i've seen one of those.

co2 tanks - most of them are wider than real stocks, and therefore, make the gun look less realistic.
batteries/gas mags - batteries can fit pretty much anywhere without showing. needless to say, you can't see gas when it's in a magazine instead of a tank.

limits on range - everybody knows (or should know) that all markers have the same effective range at equal velocities. thusly, you can't have a stereotypical sniper picking guys off down the field.
400 fps?! - some airsoft guns can get massive range with the right bb weight, velocity, and hop up. so one person could definately have a sniper rifle.

limited by hoppers - by now, most people are upgrading guns to the point where they can't shoot faster than their hopper, even if it's a stock spyder imagine on full auto. this means that if one of them is a machine gunner, they're all machine gunners. lame.
limit by how much you're willing to spend - there are machine gun airsoft guns that can shoot faster than the standard aeg. of course, they can run up a big credit card bill. if you want to be a machine gunner, you need $$$ for the good stuff.

grenade launchers - pb grenades suck. end of story. grenade launchers aren't any better, considering most fields won't allow you to use one. even in some scenarios they're considered too dangerous to use on anything but tanks.
better launchers - spray upwards of 165 bb's at a time. now that's how you simulate a grenade, not with a paint balloon that's not guaranteed to work.

face protection - having a hard time sighting in with your m98 w/ collapsable stock? duh. there's a big mask in your way. masks weren't made to work well with stocks.
take it on the chin - the only required protection is on your eyes. not that it's a good idea to wear full face protection, but you can legally modify the mask to work with your stock.

pods - no soldier would carry extra ammo in plastic tubes.
magazines - more realistic.

$$$ - costs a crapload to get that m-16 sight put on your $50 spyder then fill it with those costly paintballs, doesn't it?
not so much $$$ - less spent on bb's means you can get that shiny new scope you've been eyeballing.

my point: milsim paintball is an outdated idea. milsim fans should stick to airsoft as it is more realistic in virtually every way. i play paintball to play paintball, not to get "kills" or pretend i'm in the army.

discuss.

WOODS PRIDE

[can'tthink of1]

Agreed completely.

[Kowz_76]

In terms of milsim you're definitely right, but I still think milsim is stupid.

[Blacksheep]

Explain your intentions and then I will be able to more clearly understand and state my own view on this.

[Yakb0]

and then there's RAP (http://www.rap4.com) (IMHO) combining the worst parts of paintball and airsoft.

[amzng_spyderman]

Originally posted by Blacksheep
Explain your intentions and then I will be able to more clearly understand and state my own view on this.
it's mostly about putting the "my m98 w/ sniper stock > your ray gun looking spyder!!11" guys in their place. my other agenda is exposing the pointlessness of milsim in the sport of paintball. btw, you're the only real milsim guy on this board that i respect and expect an intelligent debate with. quite honestly, i'm looking forward to it :)

[Blacksheep]

I agree. The fact is, it is difficault to immaluate the feel of warfare or real weapons handling with a paintball gun.

However, the problem is that there are no airsoft fields, it definatly is not as safe (those smaller BBs will pierce skin at 400fps. Even with the "range rules" at 400fps, they are not always fallowed and/or they cannot determine range very well...this is fact, a good number of experianced GRUNTS cannot determine range that well).

Then there is the problem finding like-minded players and actualyl coming. You know how it is. Ten people say 'yes' and then one shows. Fields in the Southeast are few and far between. Big 2,000-man scenarios...non-existant.

In the military...real world combat...you usually know you've been hit (there are instances where this is not true, but usually you do, either by the blood or wet "thud", or excruciating pain, or dull pain depending on where it hits, who you are, etc). In airsoft...you guess and if you think you are hit...you call yourself out. What the crap? How many times do you "think" you hit someone in paintball...I can prove that crap by the green on your mask. If it ain't there, I probably didn't hit you. In airsoft...you guess. Sure, guesswork is a neccessary on the battlefield...but you shouldn't have to guess if you are wounded or not!

Now...for an actual debate. Paintball is popular because we accept anyone, no matter thier ability, preferance (woods, speedball, scenario, etc), how much cash they have (playing with a $50.00 Spyder or $1,500.00 Timmy), or any disabilities (wheelchair, def, etc). This is what makes it grow. This is why it is growing so fast. Baseball teams cut you. The paintball field won't unless you do something dumb and get banned.

If we undercut this...then what happens? We could lose a good portion of the respect we have, as well as many players.

So yes, without a doubt, air-soft mil-sim is much better and more realistic. But am I willing to trade the safety and satisfaction of knowing I got shots on target for a magazine? Nope.

[Blacksheep]

Not too sure about the upkeep on an AEG...but if you've ever used an AR15, M15, M4, or Bushmaster, or any varient...there are some thing about the military and real weapons handling you DON'T want to simulate...with my Phantom or any Tippmann and even most Spyders...they work, hands down.

[LAMANTEthePBguy]

I agree that airsoft outdoes PB in realism, but PB has a better method of playing. I have nothing wrong with milsim, I just think that somtimes the boundaries between real and pretend real get too close to the point where someone might get them confused and lead to bad things.

[pbdante]

yeah i agree with the whole airsoft being used for better realism of war . But paintball is moveing into a sport and away from playing army( speedball pwns every sport, game, and any other thing out there. Plus airsoft has no hardcore life style to it. I have never really seen people live, sleep, study, dream, and talk airsoft.

[dog-of-Dislexia]

I agree that Airsoft is more realistic than milsim paintball, but I have to say I don't really like either.

Airsoft :tdown:
Milsim Paintball :tdown:

[Jeezer]

Darn you spyderman, you made me crap my brand new empires.

[ironman15]

i personnally have no problem with airsoft or poeple who like to play airsoft. i do have a problem however with people who go out into the woods to play "army" with paintball MARKERS and then proceed to call this paintball. this is where woods ballers get most of their bad reps. I myself prefere speedball but i dont mind steppin into the woods every now and then as long as its paintball i will be playing and not "army".

basically what im tryin to say is paintball is paintball, and playin army is playin army the 2 should not be confused.


and o yeah milsim+paintball=pointless

[xXniTemAreXx]

^^^^^ Agreed ^^^^^^

[SPPaintball]

Agreed. :agree:

[Downfall08]

nice post spydey. agreed.

milsim paintball-pointless IMO I have nothing against airsoft. if anything they're helping paintball by taking the milsimers.

[toolbandfan]

Oh and let's try to steer clear of idiot posts like:

Airsoft is the suX0rz!?!!1

Paintball pwns Airsoft! P8BALL IS SO 1337!

Basically, no bashing of Airsoft or Paintball, since it goes on in almost every Airsoft thread. Airsoft doesn't suck if you've never really played it, it just proves you are an idiot.

[Hyperballin]

Adults who do the whole milism need to fight in iraq.
Kids who do the whole misism need to take their add pills.

[acdave]

Originally posted by Hyperballin
Adults who do the whole milism need to fight in iraq.
Kids who do the whole misism need to take their add pills.

:biglaugh: ROFL

[paintballer42o]

Airsoft is for real simulations.
Paintball is for fun.

That's all I need to know.

[1337n00b]

i have an airsoft gun and a pb gun i veiw them as toaly different sports and they should not be mixed

[STO Balla 22]

I have airsoft guns, and I play for fun every once in awhile. The problem around here is people not calling themselves out, it really ruins the game.

[snap shoot]

Originally posted by dog-of-Dislexia
I agree that Airsoft is more realistic than milsim paintball, but I have to say I don't really like either.

Airsoft :tdown:
Milsim Paintball :tdown:

my thoughts exactly

[Blacksheep]

Originally posted by paintballer42o
Airsoft is for real simulations.
Paintball is for fun.

That's all I need to know.

Paintball is for fun...paintball is for fun...everyone likes to have fun, so paintball is for everyone (unless you don't like to have fun). Therefore, even mil-sim for fun is good is paintball.

[SickMuffins]

Just because somebody plays with an Armotech, doesn't mean that they are into milsim. I have an Armotech, and the deciding factor of my purchasing it was intimidation. Newbies on the field aren't going to like the fact that my paintball gun looks an awful lot like an M16. People like you are going to try to get me out first, which is fine, I like to attract fire. I think it feels great to hold. It's solidly built and can take quite a bit of abuse. I'm a better player just because the Armotech line is built so that I can actually steady the marker and take shots with the sights lined up. I don't see why it is necessary to make a thread which claims to attack milsim, but in reality attacks those who buy a "scenario gun". What next? Pretty soon you guys are just going to start attacking woodsball, saying that it's too militaristic, that fatigues promote violence and so on. Not long after that, everyone who doesn't have a marker that shoots 20+ balls a second will be ridiculed to no end. Just because a new form of paintball has been created, doesn't mean that you should try to destroy it. I hope you know that we all take enough abuse from the media as it is. Maybe if the different groups of paintball could stop the infighting, something useful might actually come of it. And by the way, what is an add pill, Hyperballin? Oh, I get it. You must mean Ridilin, for Attention Defecit Disorder. Hey, congratulations on making fun of the kids born with psychological disorders. Bet that makes you feel real big... doesn't it?

[snap shoot]

Originally posted by SickMuffins
Just because somebody plays with an Armotech, doesn't mean that they are into milsim. I have an Armotech, and the deciding factor of my purchasing it was intimidation. Newbies on the field aren't going to like the fact that my paintball gun looks an awful lot like an M16. People like you are going to try to get me out first, which is fine, I like to attract fire. I think it feels great to hold. It's solidly built and can take quite a bit of abuse. I'm a better player just because the Armotech line is built so that I can actually steady the marker and take shots with the sights lined up. I don't see why it is necessary to make a thread which claims to attack milsim, but in reality attacks those who buy a "scenario gun". What next? Pretty soon you guys are just going to start attacking woodsball, saying that it's too militaristic, that fatigues promote violence and so on. Not long after that, everyone who doesn't have a marker that shoots 20+ balls a second will be ridiculed to no end. Just because a new form of paintball has been created, doesn't mean that you should try to destroy it. I hope you know that we all take enough abuse from the media as it is. Maybe if the different groups of paintball could stop the infighting, something useful might actually come of it. And by the way, what is an add pill, Hyperballin? Oh, I get it. You must mean Ridilin, for Attention Defecit Disorder. Hey, congratulations on making fun of the kids born with psychological disorders. Bet that makes you feel real big... doesn't it?

Wow Sick Muffins came out of no where and owned everyone!!!.

[Pyro-Shutter-md]

Originally posted by SickMuffins
Just because somebody plays with an Armotech, doesn't mean that they are into milsim. I have an Armotech, and the deciding factor of my purchasing it was intimidation. Newbies on the field aren't going to like the fact that my paintball gun looks an awful lot like an M16. People like you are going to try to get me out first, which is fine, I like to attract fire. I think it feels great to hold. It's solidly built and can take quite a bit of abuse. I'm a better player just because the Armotech line is built so that I can actually steady the marker and take shots with the sights lined up. I don't see why it is necessary to make a thread which claims to attack milsim, but in reality attacks those who buy a "scenario gun". What next? Pretty soon you guys are just going to start attacking woodsball, saying that it's too militaristic, that fatigues promote violence and so on. Not long after that, everyone who doesn't have a marker that shoots 20+ balls a second will be ridiculed to no end. Just because a new form of paintball has been created, doesn't mean that you should try to destroy it. I hope you know that we all take enough abuse from the media as it is. Maybe if the different groups of paintball could stop the infighting, something useful might actually come of it. And by the way, what is an add pill, Hyperballin? Oh, I get it. You must mean Ridilin, for Attention Defecit Disorder. Hey, congratulations on making fun of the kids born with psychological disorders. Bet that makes you feel real big... doesn't it?

hah pwned..


i have nothing against mislim pb or airsoft, i play airsoft with my friends all the time and its alot of fun sumtimes, but havent really played mislim so i am not going to say anyhing about it

[snap shoot]

The only thing that really pwns the hell outta paintball is the price. I got 6000 bb's for 15 bucks :crazy: .

[SickMuffins]

Yeah, airsoft is what I play when I don't feel like putting on my whole mask and can buy 1,000 bb's for $10. I wish I'd found 6,000 for $15 :mad: .

[Hyperballin]

Originally posted by SickMuffins
Just because somebody plays with an Armotech, doesn't mean that they are into milsim. I have an Armotech, and the deciding factor of my purchasing it was intimidation. Newbies on the field aren't going to like the fact that my paintball gun looks an awful lot like an M16. People like you are going to try to get me out first, which is fine, I like to attract fire. I think it feels great to hold. It's solidly built and can take quite a bit of abuse. I'm a better player just because the Armotech line is built so that I can actually steady the marker and take shots with the sights lined up. I don't see why it is necessary to make a thread which claims to attack milsim, but in reality attacks those who buy a "scenario gun". What next? Pretty soon you guys are just going to start attacking woodsball, saying that it's too militaristic, that fatigues promote violence and so on. Not long after that, everyone who doesn't have a marker that shoots 20+ balls a second will be ridiculed to no end. Just because a new form of paintball has been created, doesn't mean that you should try to destroy it. I hope you know that we all take enough abuse from the media as it is. Maybe if the different groups of paintball could stop the infighting, something useful might actually come of it. And by the way, what is an add pill, Hyperballin? Oh, I get it. You must mean Ridilin, for Attention Defecit Disorder. Hey, congratulations on making fun of the kids born with psychological disorders. Bet that makes you feel real big... doesn't it?

Go play with your crappy armotech... Sorry for making fun of you forgetting to take your pill. Maybe next time you will take the pill before writing this stupid post, trying to defend milism.

[SickMuffins]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[amzng_spyderman]

hyperballin, why don't you go away while the grown ups talk?

good post sickmuffins. but as long as i'm around i'm not going to let anybody trash woodsball ;)

[SickMuffins]

Thanks Spydey. I wasn't directing anything at you, but it really makes me mad when people attack something they don't know much about. The people playing this style of paintball don't actually want to kill people. If they did, they'd be playing Russian Roulette instead. The thing about Mil-Sim is that everybody has a different idea of what that is. I think it would be going out in the woods without a mask (because that's realistic, real army men don't wear masks) and smearing dirt on their faces to lose their scent. I don't think that it's playing in the woods with an Armotech with my friends. Occasionally we say "he got killed", sure, but it doesn't mean that we're pretending to be Rangers or something. I'm just curious as to what everybody else thinks that Mil-Sim is. Some might consider what I do Mil-Sim, but I don't really think that it matters. It's all paintball and we wouldn't be here if we didn't love it.

[Hyperballin]

I didnt trash woods ball. I trashed sick muffins cuz he trashed me.

[nahthan]

Because you trasehed him in the first place?
Yea, okay.
IMO with all this Iraq stuff: Okay, people are protesting the war, saying how they can't get jobs, or got laid off, saying they didn't get paid enough, or that we have our own vetrans stuck on the street.
Now SOME of that may be true, but what if they actually joined together to do it themselves as volunteer work, or made a job out of it... then maybe taxes wouldn't be as high as they claim they are and they wouldn't have those poor vetrans who fought for their country in some war lying on street in a cardbord box waiting for death...
Nevermind, they are too lazy.
the actual war: We came in wrong. Now what I believe we should do, is pull out for time being. After that, if there is another attack, nuke a city at random that is a terrorist "Stronghold".
A lil' harsh, but effective after the first three cities.

Milism: I let the player do the talking. If they are an idiot to me, well I can be a good idiot too. If they are nice and polite, I try to watch them during a game... Generally, these ones are the good ones other than former military personell..

[amzng_spyderman]

Originally posted by Hyperballin
I didnt trash woods ball. I trashed sick muffins cuz he trashed me.
you deserved it. be gone.

[SickMuffins]

If I say this, the thread might be moved to OT, but good threads never keep the same topic. Nahthan, I agree that we pulled in wrong, but we can't pull out now. We are in too far, and if we decided to invade them for some weapons of mass destruction that lack tangibility, it's our fault. If we pull out, the world will hate us more than they already do. The point is, we started it, and now we have to end it. Otherwise, the country might just collapse into state worse than when we found it, even if there isn't a US appointed dictator there. Back to the Mil-Sim discussion, I really appreciate you taking my point of view into consideration and not chewing it up, like what has been done in other threads. I hope Hyperballin will forgive me for "trashing" him also.

[Dragunfly_Mech2]

i played with this kid once. He had a Ghille suit on, and was just sitting on a hill. The suit was Brown (desert) and everything around was green. I asked him how many "kills" he got. Yeah he said none. He also has a G.I. issued canteen. And some other rediculous stuff. Yeah next time i play with those kids i'm using my harness, some tourney paint, and i'm wearing my stand-out jersey and pants. Yep running a lot certainly get's you out.

[Ghostcom]

I wonder why that is so much hatred among, the two different faiths of Paintball: Milsim and Speedball? :confused:

Hey it is still .68 balls on either side. ;)

I love Paintball and I love Milsim (as someone that as played in D-Day '04 baby!) I enjoy speedball. And with that said....

I looked a discuss between Airsoft and PB original, and the fact remains for me. PB rules my world!
Airsoft is cheaper, if you have a spring, for ammo and does allow for more of that "GI Joe" feeling. However, it is limited by that very few play here in Texas, that the Battery and Greengas guns are very expensive. A M-4 with all the toys made in Japan is nearly $600. :|
And Greengas and the extra clips is expensive. And then there is the whole issue of being marked in Airsoft.
Plus I like the smell of Mineral Oil!

Now, as a Milsim player, I dream of a world were the .68 and .40 live together. Yeah, I said a RAP Marker