An interesting thing about filling co2 cylenders

[PBallWonder]

Well, heres the story:

I saw a sign outside a liquor store saying "Paintball co2 cylender refills here, 9 oz for 3$" so today i go driving there to get my tanks filled there and then the guy there says "come back in about half an hour so i can freeze these bottles, and then fill em" i was all like wtf...:confused: i never heard of freezing the cylenders then filling them. so as i was leaving he stuck em in a freezer. i came back about 45 minuts later and i asked em why he froze em and he said "when u freeze em its easyer to weigh and fill, and you will be able to get more co2 in." he also said not freezing them will cause them to not be filled all the way.

so does that mean that when u get ur cylenders filled without being frozen they dont get filled compleatly, or is this some old telling bs for his buisness?

has anyone heard of this before?

Discuss, with no flames, dubble posts, swears beeped out with these little **** things, or spam. no just quoting someone and putting a little :nod: . so keep it clean.

[paintballer42o]

Unless the tempreture is exceeding or below the warning limit, the temp doesn't matter.

[slushii]

Ive heard something like this also :confused: . But I have hpa now so it doesnt matter to me.

[PBallWonder]

Originally posted by slushii
Ive heard something like this also :confused: . But I have hpa now so it doesnt matter to me.

i cant afford hpa right now............ maby if i dident buy so many lap dances.

[Jeezer]

Funny coming from a 15 year old :rolleyes:

[PBallWonder]

it was supposed to be a joke.

and im 16 not 15.
and i have my drivers licence.

[Jeezer]

Sorry, I suck at math.

[thunderpig]

It has truth to it.

Try filling a hot tank as opposed to a chilled tank. There's a difference.

He didn't have to put them in the freezer though. He could have just filled it a little ways, and then purged it quickly. It would have the same effect, making the tank cold.

[PBallWonder]

if he fills a hot tank, the gas would expand more quickly making it hold less right? and if it was cold, the co2 would stay in liquid form long enough for filling right? thunderpig, would u be kindly enough to explain the diffrence between filling a hot and cold tank plz?

[thunderpig]

Originally posted by PBallWonder
if he fills a hot tank, the gas would expand more quickly making it hold less right? and if it was cold, the co2 would stay in liquid form long enough for filling right? thunderpig, would u be kindly enough to explain the diffrence between filling a hot and cold tank plz?
To be honest, I don't know the scientific blah blah blahness. But what you said, sounds right, to me.

But I DO know that the tank won't be near as full if you don't first purge/chill it before you fill it.

It's just experience, I guess. :|

[heM]

Originally posted by PBallWonder
Discuss, with no flames, dubble posts, swears beeped out with these little **** things, or spam. no just quoting someone and putting a little :nod: . so keep it clean.
:nod:
but seriously i think thunderpig is right...

[un4givnpb]

its simple... CO2 compresses easier at a lower temperature... the only thing is once you get home the tank will have come back to room temperature and the excess gas will leak out through the burst disks....
so you wont end up with more CO2...
plus they are supposed to be filled like 2 ounces less thatn they are rated for...
like a nine should only be filled to 7 or sumtin like that... i dunno thats what ive heard...

[KingThomasIV]

Several fields I've been to have put my cylinders into a cooler full of ice and water (not just cold water) for a couple of minutes before filling the tanks.

Yes, I believe it is because hot tanks hold less because the CO2 volumizes, and the cold tanks keep the CO2 liquified longer. Remember to watch the tanks from sitting in the sun too long, especially when they are completely full... If they get too hot, you better hope that the macroline is the thing that blows, and not the tank itself.

[dubis07]

I am not sure if you want to freeze it. When you freeze a liquid we all know that it expands. How does more get in? Don't know. But I wouldnt want my liquid CO2 to be a solid. Keep it a liquid.

[PBallWonder]

ive had several burst disks blow on me. the damn canadian tire doesent have people that know what their doing. i actully had to show a guy how to use the fill station and the digital fish scale. it could be because he was aisan and couldent understand the english instructions on it i guess.... just sad.....:(

[thunderpig]

Originally posted by dubis07
I am not sure if you want to freeze it. When you freeze a liquid we all know that it expands. How does more get in? Don't know. But I wouldnt want my liquid CO2 to be a solid. Keep it a liquid.

Don't worry. You won't get it cold enought to make dry ice.

[PBallWonder]

Originally posted by dubis07
I am not sure if you want to freeze it. When you freeze a liquid we all know that it expands. How does more get in? Don't know. But I wouldnt want my liquid CO2 to be a solid. Keep it a liquid.

i dont think u know what were talking about.

[thepeashooter]

im pretty sure that you arnt supposed to fill your tanks all the way. I think you are supposed to leave some room for expansion
im pretty sure a 20oz tank is only supposed to have about 16 oz's


Ive only filled HPA tanks before and haven't filled a Co2 tank but what the guys do at my fields is. Gas up your tank a small bit, release the gas and do this a couple times until your tank has frost on it. They then fill it up

[Forest Spyder]

Originally posted by thepeashooter
Gas up your tank a small bit, release the gas and do this a couple times until your tank has frost on it. They then fill it up

My job at my field actually has me freeze C02 cylinders.

Our field actually freezes our empty C02 tanks overnight. By freezing them, you avoid doing the above and wasting more C02 than you need to. It's basically a good way to aviod using about 5oz of C02 just to cool the tank down, and then fill it to full capacity.

It really just makes things much easier to fill as well since the tanks are completely frosted over, so you just get all liquid.

[PBallWonder]

Originally posted by thepeashooter
im pretty sure that you arnt supposed to fill your tanks all the way. I think you are supposed to leave some room for expansion
im pretty sure a 20oz tank is only supposed to have about 16 oz's


Then y wouldent they call a 20 oz a 16 oz?

i think the 20 oz and all other cylenders are made to hold what it says on the bottle (20, 16, 14, 9, 4 ounces) of liquid co2 and theres still room for expansion. thats why u can fit a couple extra ounces of co2 into ur bottle but when it heats back up to room temperature it expands and blows the burst disk. i wonder what would happen if we used liquid nitrogen on our markers......

[LAMANTEthePBguy]

Since this thread is full of ignorance and half truths, let me tell you how it goes.

By chilling the tank, you decrease the pressure inside the bottle, and therfore the higher pressure inside the large cylinder naturally goes to the lower pressure, the small tank. You will still be able to fill up tanks if you don't chill them, but you wont be able to get a full fill.

The manufacturers take into account the need for the cylinder to be 68% gas and 32% liquid, so they stamp the actual amount you should fill to to get that ratio. So a 20oz should be filled to 20 ounces.

A little bit of chemistry: CO2 has a very low boiling point. The reason it is liquid is because of the small volume. (PV)/T=(P2V2)/T2 I believe is the correct formula for this. Filling a hot tank will not make the gas expand more quickly. CO2's freezing point is maanny degrees below zero, so changing the temp from 70° to 30° will not affect the rate of expansion too much. It does however reduce the pressure in the tank, see above. I hope that is right. Chemistry was a long time ago.

Un4givinPB-
CO2 compresses easier at a lower temperatureNo. You fill the tank with liquid CO2. Liquids are extremely hard to compress ( the reason they use it in hydraulics). the only thing is once you get home the tank will have come back to room temperature and the excess gas will leak out through the burst disks.... The tank will come back to room temp, but all that means is that the pressure inside the tank is about 850psi, the standard output. When it is still cold, that psi will be lower. The burst disks on most tanks are either 1800psi or 3k psi. Burst disks are like fuses. Once they blow they cant be reused, so just a little CO2 can't leak out. That would be a pressure relief valve.

King Thomas IV- Tanks are in no danger of exploding. They are rated for more than 3k psi, hence why they have 3k burst disks. The burst disk would go first, or the hose would blow out of the fitting.

Dubis-
I am not sure if you want to freeze it. When you freeze a liquid we all know that it expands. How does more get in? Don't know. But I wouldnt want my liquid CO2 to be a solid. Keep it a liquid. Actually when you freeze a liquid it decreases in volume. You are thining about water. That is special because of the Hydrogen bonding, and is about the only liquid that does it. I don't know how solids even got into this situation lol.

[thunderpig]

Man, next time I need a chemist/scientist, I'm pm'ing Lamanate! :D

Some stuff I never knew...

[LAMANTEthePBguy]

Heh, I'm an air systems junkie.

[PBallWonder]

Originally posted by LAMANTEthePBguy
Since this thread is full of ignorance

Wtf wheres the ignorance?

Btw alot of what u said was already in this thread.

[LAMANTEthePBguy]

You my freind are ignorant of what ignorance is;)

Main Entry: ig·no·rant
Pronunciation: 'ig-n(&-)r&nt
Function: adjective
1 a : destitute of knowledge or education <an ignorant society>; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified <parents ignorant of modern mathematics> b : resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence <ignorant errors>
2 : UNAWARE, UNINFORMED
- ig·no·rant·ly adverb
- ig·no·rant·ness noun

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=ignorant

[PBallWonder]

in english please?????? and how and where was i being ignorant in this thread?

[KingThomasIV]

Sorry about that... I reread my post and I meant to say the burst disk on the tank would explode. I've been in two instances where things have gone wrong with tanks and heat.

Three years ago, we (me and a group of friends) were playing in the dunes in weather over 100 degrees, in the direct sun. My friend Bob (not a generic name, his actual name) laid his gun down in the sun instead of in his shadow while we were cooling down, and after five or so minutes -- a loud bang followed by the hiss... His macro line had blown directly underneath the corner of the trigger guard because it was the weakest part in the system.

The other instance occurred when we were at a field on another hot day (mid 90's), and someone left their gun sitting in the sun for a long while. The burst disk blew off the tank and shot a hole in the (old) plywood table directly beneath it, while at the same time blowing the gun off the table. It was scary as hell... That little piece of metal could have killed someone, had it been angled differently.

[LAMANTEthePBguy]

Originally posted by PBallWonder
in english please?????? and how and where was i being ignorant in this thread? I never directed my original comment twards you specifically, but the people in general who had posted in it.

King- Thats really scary. His burst disk shouldn't do that. He probably messed with it or it was loose.

[thunderpig]

yarr.... :pirate: At least I admitted not knowing WHY stuff is the way it is.

[PBallWonder]

ok i think we should let this thread die, were just spamming now.

[jpgsharon]

Originally posted by thunderpig


Don't worry. You won't get it cold enought to make dry ice.


actually, at my shop, i filled a tank, and it was a hot day, and the kid comes back 10 min later sayin the burst disk went off, and i took the tank from him and there was actually a chunk of dry ice inside it, i could shake the tank and hear clunking inside the tank

[KingThomasIV]

Were you holding it with bare hands? What did the outside of the tank look like? I'm just curious.

[LAMANTEthePBguy]

Yeah, the bottle mus thave been pretty iced over. With all that gas expanding so fast, the temperature would bave dropped tremendousely to get dry ice in there. There would probably be a thick layer of ice on the outside.

[timmyfreaker]

My friend had a brass eagle 9 oz once and the disc went. He had it on a harness so his bottem got all frozen. So we took the tank and sprayed it with a hose. It was fun.

[QuiksilverMV]

as soon as it started to heat up drastically outside that tank would blow **** I can't find a smile exploding

[PBallWonder]

The first time a burst disk blew on one of my cylenders, it was stiing on the tabe after we got home. we were watching the news then BLAM!!!! we look out of the living room into the kitchen, and there was a huge cloud of some coming out if the disk. and then when it stopped, i looked at it and the whole cylender was white. it was a shell of dry ice around the cylender. lol. it almost gave my mom a heart attack when it first blew. :laugh:

[LAMANTEthePBguy]

Actually sorry to be a killjoy, but thats not dry ice on the outside. Its condensation from the atmosphere around us that has frozen on the bottle. Otherwise when they do that, they would steam when the dry ice sublimates.

[thunderpig]

Yes. Lamante is correct. That's not dry ice.

Anywho, *un-subscribes from thread...... now.*

[QuiksilverMV]

my friend hooked his gas up an left it on the concrete on a day that was 95* and it blew a hole in his macroline.

[cutomcocker1]

Originally posted by QuiksilverMV
my friend hooked his gas up an left it on the concrete on a day that was 95* and it blew a hole in his macroline.

what pressure was the macro rated for?...

[thepeashooter]

Originally posted by jpgsharon



actually, at my shop, i filled a tank, and it was a hot day, and the kid comes back 10 min later sayin the burst disk went off, and i took the tank from him and there was actually a chunk of dry ice inside it, i could shake the tank and hear clunking inside the tank


That bangin around you heard..That was an Anti-syphon