White Wolfe Airsmithing hates customers

[shockstar]

I've just had a very bad experience with White Wolf Paintball. They took 57 days to deliver a Phantom pump gun. What's worse, Joe White wouldn't return e-mails to even confirm he had received the order, although he had been paid by PayPal. The only way to get his phone number (530-514-6157) was to go through the Better Business Bureau, where he has an unsatisfactory rating. See here:

http://www.northeastcalifornia.bbb.org/commonreport.html?bureau=sacra&compid=42000858&code=YZ

[OWNAGE]

i'm guessing ur the one who left a report?:eyes:

[pantzaroff16]

OK?
1. Get a life quit ranting!
2. Everyone has bad experiences so STFU!

[Raptorz922]

White Wolf actually has a long history of horrible customer service and way too long turnaround times. Many people will tell you not to go there.

[mullen]

White Wolf takes a long azz time to get the product to you. I thought everyone knew that....

[Blacksheep]

Ladies and gentlemen...

This is a custom/semi-custom shop...like Punisher or Docs Machine. Turn around time will be slow!

[SkunkTeeth]

Read his frikin FAQ, he says he usually doesn't answer all emails and he says things take a long time.

[Empyreal Rogue]

On top of that Joe works alone. That's why his prices are really good.

However, I would like to suggest www.maxanodizing.com . Average turnaround time is 2 weeks, so I've heard, and he's just as awesome if not better than WW. And prices aren't much worse. I'll be paying 160 for a Dust Black ano on my 'Mag, that includes shipping.

WWA would make a much better business if he communicated more. Even if he kept my marker for 3 months but gave me a week-by-week update I'd be fine. And what aggravates me is that he will respond to an email I send him about pricing in about 20 minutes to an hour. Plus those replies are about 4-6 KBs. Not that big but for someone who claims to need as much time to work as possible he sure is typing long emails.

Now I'm not putting down his business itself, but, I think he needs to work on his communication. If he can reply to one of my emails in 20 minutes to an hour then he obviously has enough time to give 1 email per person per week. That's all we as customers are asking, is it that hard? Hell, copy-paste replies! "marker is still at the ano. let you know in a few days" Done. Or, "marker just got back from the ano. sending it off later this week" Done.

Oh well, he won't read this much less take heed of our thoughts.

[Juvenile]

Originally posted by pantzaroff16
OK?
1. Get a life quit ranting!
2. Everyone has bad experiences so STFU! End yourself you god damn noob. I wish people like you would die.

[Cuervo]

Originally posted by pantzaroff16
OK?
1. Get a life quit ranting!
2. Everyone has bad experiences so STFU! You can't be me. When you trivialize something, it actually has to be trivial. Having terrible customer service (which is WWA's trademark, I might add) is not a trivial matter. Crawl back under your rock and don't return until you finish puberty.

WWA is notorious for their bad customer service. There's nothing you can do except not order. I believe it says in plain english on the site that the wait times are obnoxiously long (mullen told me if he ordered his phantom today he MIGHT have it by Christmas.) Personally, I think it sucks, but thats how WWA is. If you didn't do the research beforehand to learn this (not exactly uncommon knowledge), I'm sorry and it sucks to be you.

On another note, 57-day turn around was a good experience for WWA. I would call them and thank them.

[Shadow221]

Originally posted by pantzaroff16
OK?
1. Get a life quit ranting!
2. Everyone has bad experiences so STFU! Yes because warning people of a poor company is sooo noob.:rolleyes:

How about you practice what you preech? Might make the world a better place, if only slightly.

[snap shoot]

Originally posted by Raptorz922
White Wolf actually has a long history of horrible customer service and way too long turnaround times. Many people will tell you not to go there.

[LAMANTEthePBguy]

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=140792

Long thread, but it has a lot of information about WWA, and what custom shops actually go through. Unless you want somthing really nice done and dont care to wait up to a year to get it, go elsewhere. Sure he may be cheaper by a little, but by the time you get it, you will regret your decision.

[AR55 MtM]

You got your marker didn't you? Stop complaining about how long it took to get to your house. Did you get scammed? No. So please stop bickering.

[Empyreal Rogue]

So much for leaving, AR...

*sighs*

[AR55 MtM]

Meh I did that to see how many people cared about me....

[pEnNyWiSdOm225]

Originally posted by pantzaroff16
OK?
1. Get a life quit ranting!
2. Everyone has bad experiences so STFU!

wow, could you say it any nicer?



WW doesn't exactly have the best customer service from waht I understand, let this be a lesson to research before you send something to someone.

Originally posted by AR55 MtM
Meh I did that to see how many people cared about me....

Self-Esteem issue eh?

[evilhomer]

Both my friends ordered from him a few months ago. It took them each almost a month and a half, and they still had problems. Both of them knew this when they bought it. And WWA doesn't hate customers, he's just a one man show and tries to keep up with orders. It's also CCI, since they're backed up, up to 5 weeks I've heard.

[asa4575]

It's called doing research on the company before ordering. Maybe if you read his FAQ you would not have had this problem now would you?

[Forest Spyder]

Yeah, he's a very rude individual. He usually hangs out in AOL Chats, and is not exactly the nicest person in the world. Definetly not customer-oriented. Suprised that he's lasted this long so far.

[LAMANTEthePBguy]

Hangs out in AOL chats, but doesn't answer Emails? sigh ( read the AO thread)

[asa4575]

Originally posted by LAMANTEthePBguy
Hangs out in AOL chats, but doesn't answer Emails? sigh ( read the AO thread)
Where is the AO thread?

Link?

[LAMANTEthePBguy]

Originally posted by LAMANTEthePBguy
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=140792

Long thread, but it has a lot of information about WWA, and what custom shops actually go through. Unless you want somthing really nice done and dont care to wait up to a year to get it, go elsewhere. Sure he may be cheaper by a little, but by the time you get it, you will regret your decision.

[Six Feet Under]

Forest, dude, he's a ONE-MAN SHOW. I doubt you could do any better, so don't talk any **** about him.

[Halliday]

He runs a custom shop. Custom = time. He is very clear about that and if you can't wait don't order.

[can'tthink of1]

Originally posted by Halliday
He runs a custom shop. Custom = time. He is very clear about that and if you can't wait don't order.

Agreed, thats what I was going to say. Hell, I haven't seen my Tribal Mephisto for 2 months, but hey, thats a custom install of eyes and some other stuff. The only thing I like about my situation is that I know how far mine is coming along. And know what, I still don't have my tribal back, and then again eye covers have been backordered for awhile, so thats been delaying it too. This isn't WW btw... this is a tribal guy.

Meh, WW makes it clear, and its your fault if you are angry.

[AR55 MtM]

"Fast, Good, Cheap: You can pick two. (don't pick fast)"

You have no right to file a report on him if you don't even read the terms of agreement. He even says if you can't be patient go somewhere else.

[Forest Spyder]

Originally posted by Six Feet Under
Forest, dude, he's a ONE-MAN SHOW. I doubt you could do any better, so don't talk any **** about him.

At least I would keep in very good contact with my customers.

Plus, if it's a one man show, you just hire a kid or something for a wage to streamline all the work. There'd be no shortage of kids that would want to get an exposure to paintball and machine work. Maybe just have an "apprentice" or the like to do the menial tasks, such as prep work.

[Forest Spyder]

It's kind of like Orange County Choppers. They are all hand made bikes, and for the amount of time that they are built in, and the deadlines that they have to meet, it's amazing. Why can't Paintball custom shops be the same way?

[Blacksheep]

Originally posted by Forest Spyder
It's kind of like Orange County Choppers. They are all hand made bikes, and for the amount of time that they are built in, and the deadlines that they have to meet, it's amazing. Why can't Paintball custom shops be the same way?

Because a paintball gun isn't a chopper perhaps? See, the reason is that paintball guns are paintballguns and choppers are choppers. If paintball guns were choppers then they would not be called paintball guns, they would be called choppers.

I believe that is the most logical, straight forward answer I could have given.

[Empyreal Rogue]

Originally posted by Blacksheep
Because a paintball gun isn't a chopper perhaps? See, the reason is that paintball guns are paintballguns and choppers are choppers. If paintball guns were choppers then they would not be called paintball guns, they would be called choppers.

Uh, duh?

He's proving a point. OCC is a custom shop but have great turn around time but why can't paintball shops be that way? That's what he's trying to say. The fact that OCC makes custom choppers has nothing to do with paintball makers, it's the shop itself and its employees that are the center of his comment.

[asa4575]

Originally posted by Empyreal Rogue
He's proving a point. OCC is a custom shop but have great turn around time but why can't paintball shops be that way? That's what he's trying to say. The fact that OCC makes custom choppers has nothing to do with paintball makers, it's the shop itself and its employees that are the center of his comment.
Paintball companies don't need good turn around time because the guns don't cost 500,000$.

[Empyreal Rogue]

Well what if you put it into prespective? I know nothing about motorcycles and how OCC does their business so my numbers will be wrong.

Lets say you have the most expensive stock chopper out there and you want to make it all chrome, really shiney chrome. On top of that you want to extend the front strut bar out a good foot and a half so it's even longer. Well in order to do that you'd need to balance out the rear of the bike some more. That's probably going to be about 100,000 dollars worth of work and that doesn't include shipping.

Now, lets take a really expensive marker. A DM4. The millings on it are nice, but you want it milled some more. On top of that, why not a new paint job? So you go to a company that's really good at what they do, WWA. Now grant it WWA doesn't do milling anymore, but he use to.

How are they different in concept? Both are custom shops. Both are working on expensive objects. Both are doing some kind of exterior work along with a paint job or polishing. Why should WWA get to overwelm himself in work and go really slow, not communicate and OCC have to work hard as hell to meet deadlines? And don't say well because motorcycle parts are more expensive. Well OCC has to spend that money they make to buy parts, repair machinery, AND make a profit! WWA only makes his profit by overwelming himself in work and not bothering to hire help.

I understand Custom Shops require time. My AO jersey from CSG took a month to put together and send to me, I was fine with that. Know why I was fine with that? CSG kept me updated! I called and they gave me a straight no BS answer. I'm sure OCC does that too, afterall they do have a very good reputation. But WWA has a very bad reputation because he doesn't tell anyone JACK about anything!

[AR55 MtM]

A paint job is way different than an anodizing job
when you anno a gun you have to strip it then put it in acid and then put electricity to it. You can't compare a motorcycle to a paintball gun. Motorbikes have been around a lot longer than pb guns, so with that logic they would know how to build the bikes cheaper and faster. Paintball guns are just now being exposed into new technology so stuff will become cheaper faster & better. A few years ago everything was milled by hand, but you have computer programs that can do it in hours/minutes. CnC milling is just now becoming popular, and before you even start milling you have to make the computer program for it which can take hours or even months. If you complain about someones work when they even tell you it can take up to years don't go to them there are others out there that can do it for you for more money but not as good of quality.

THe guy even states that if you ask how long your gun is going to take emails he deletes them why? Because he doesn't want to waste his time finding out who's gun it is and checking up on it, hes a one man show theres nothing wrong with a lack of communication but he does get the job done nonetheless if you don't like his turn around time go somewhere else.

[Blacksheep]

Originally posted by Empyreal Rogue


Uh, duh?

He's proving a point. OCC is a custom shop but have great turn around time but why can't paintball shops be that way? That's what he's trying to say. The fact that OCC makes custom choppers has nothing to do with paintball makers, it's the shop itself and its employees that are the center of his comment.

Hey, don't get smart with me you <female dog>, I'm not the one that had to ask or brought it up! If it's such a "duh" point, then get mad at the poster, not me.

The point is not valid! Choppers and paintball guns are two completely different businesses! You expect a navy shipyard to have the same turn around time as a Wal-Mart cashier? No! Why? Becuase it requires completely different concepts/things!

To try to compare the two is like comparing Michael Jackson to Michael Moore, just because they have the same first name or are infamous don't mean jack! They don't compare!

[Empyreal Rogue]

Originally posted by AR55 MtM
theres nothing wrong with a lack of communication

That statement is FALSE!

How on earth can you say poor communication is right? Thats absurd!

[Edit] Blacksheep, a Navy Shipyard builds things. Wal Mart sells things. Two TOTALLY different things. We're comparing WWA, a custom shop, to OCC, another custom shop. My point is still valid, I don't understand how YOU don't understand that.

[AR55 MtM]

The guy has always done his work even if it took 3 years there is no need for communicstion if the guy always gives back his work...hes realible I would trust him. As I said before there is nothing wrong with a lack of communication if the guyhas always given back the persons marker. Why don't you do a custom work shop by yourself and be able to do the milling send off the anodizing and fill in orders, go to the post office, go to yourdealer and ask for more supplies, try to answer some email, sleep, & eat. Its not an easy task.

[Blacksheep]

Originally posted by Empyreal Rogue


Blacksheep, a Navy Shipyard builds things. Wal Mart sells things. Two TOTALLY different things.

Exactly my point. Choppers and paitnball guns are two totally different businesses.

Originally posted by Empyreal Rogue

We're comparing WWA, a custom shop, to OCC, another custom shop.

What you failed to say is custom PAINTBALL shop against another custom MOTORCYCLE shop. Poor communication on your part for purposly leaving out details of importance to try and further your own argument. I suggest you stop.

Originally posted by Empyreal Rogue

My point is still valid, I don't understand how YOU don't understand that.


Your point was never valid. Apples to oranges, two totally different businesses. Different parts, methods, requirments, work, etc. They have nothing alike. Don't try to compare them.

To further my argument..look at Doc and Punisher.

[Empyreal Rogue]

I have nothing against his work at all. In fact, I think his work is absolutely gorgeous. It has a rough look to it, which I like. However, it's his work HABITS I don't like. I don't care how long he keeps a piece to be done, what I care about is how he won't give an update on an ano status. My suggestion is that he should give 1 reply per person per week. I know he reads the emails, he just doesn't chose to respond. But why? Why is it so hard to say "It's still being anodized" or "I sent it to be anodized yesterday" or "It's on its way to your house. Hope you like it"?

That's all I'm saying. I was just backing up Forest Spyder's point. I don't necessarily agree with it, I just supported his point out of habit. Damn my argumentativeness. Like I said, I have no problem with the length of time he has my marker. But if I send it to him and get NO REPLY for 4 months, I'm going to get a little anxious and upset. Read that thread from AO, that's all Aliens was saying. He had an address change and wanted to confirm it with WW but he didn't respond so how is he suppose to know WW got the email or cared? Aliens isn't a mind reader so what's he suppose to do, think "Oh, it's OK if he keeps my 800 dollar marker with a VERY NICE ano job and then sends it to my old address."

[AR55 MtM]

Well its aliens fault for not telling him he might be moving in the next weeks not his. Why does it matter if he gives you an update or not? He is doing it and chooses not to waste his time with pointless emails

[Empyreal Rogue]

He informed him 3 weeks before the move. No response.

Why do I need an update? To know that progress is actually going on and my money is well spent. But he'll never do that so that's why I'm going to M.A.X. (http://www.maxanodizing.com) . He's not much more expensive than WW, turn around time is about 2 weeks, the finishes give it a really smooooooth look, and he has someone that replies to your emails.

I'd love to have my marker anodized by WW just to say WW anodized my marker. But his lack of communication just pushes me away, and I'm not alone. If he wants to be a sucessful and respected business man he should do his job right. He's doing his job now, but not all of it. Part of being a business man is communicating with your customers, and he's not doing that.

[Blacksheep]

Punisher is the same way....I thought he ripped me off the first time I went through him and realize unless I'm waiting for something nice...pay the extra $5.00 for whatever I want. But he's a trustworthy guy and won't worry about his communication because I know I'll get my stuff back.

[AR55 MtM]

Originally posted by Blacksheep
Punisher is the same way....I thought he ripped me off the first time I went through him and realize unless I'm waiting for something nice...pay the extra $5.00 for whatever I want. But he's a trustworthy guy and won't worry about his communication because I know I'll get my stuff back.
Exactly my point, you will get your stuff.

[Six Feet Under]

Originally posted by AR55 MtM
Well its aliens fault for not telling him he might be moving in the next weeks not his. Why does it matter if he gives you an update or not? He is doing it and chooses not to waste his time with pointless emails

Just for the record, some people don't know if they're going to be moving in the next few weeks. Take for example, someone in the Armed Forces. If they were being moved to another state or even country, with only one week's notice, how would you feel if no one knew that you moved and they still had your $1000 gun?

[AR55 MtM]

Then it sucks to be you

[Empyreal Rogue]

Wow, that's your best come back? Not only are you being extremely hard headed on the issue but your utter stupidity on comebacks is just sad!

I'd LOVE to see you in that situation just to see your reaction. I bet you wouldn't be cool about it at all.

[AR55 MtM]

Well I wouldn't ship to anno my gun in the first place because I am happy the way it is

[Forest Spyder]

Originally posted by AR55 MtM
Well I wouldn't ship to anno my gun in the first place because I am happy the way it is

Woeful attempt to back out of an argument with your pride intact. Too bad you tripped as you went out the back door.

If anything, a motorbike custom shop would want more time, because they fabricate all the stuff from scratch. Most of the time WWA just takes a body and re-anodzies, or just does some machine work on the body.

For most custom work, I would doubt that he's taking a blank billet of aluminum and machines it into a whole new body, then anodizes it.

It's kinda like TheAngelGuy and the Predator mod. It took over a month to do, however there is an automated E-mail system and online status ticket that you can check, and the techs fill it out for you to see, and you can always call up Dee and ask what's going on.

It's not the wait time, it's the nature of the wait time. A long time waiting Knowing what is being done is so much better than being in the dark and waiting to hear anything at all.

[AR55 MtM]

Originally posted by Forest Spyder


Woeful attempt to back out of an argument with your pride intact. Too bad you tripped as you went out the back door.

If anything, a motorbike custom shop would want more time, because they fabricate all the stuff from scratch. Most of the time WWA just takes a body and re-anodzies, or just does some machine work on the body.

For most custom work, I would doubt that he's taking a blank billet of aluminum and machines it into a whole new body, then anodizes it.

It's kinda like TheAngelGuy and the Predator mod. It took over a month to do, however there is an automated E-mail system and online status ticket that you can check, and the techs fill it out for you to see, and you can always call up Dee and ask what's going on.

It's not the wait time, it's the nature of the wait time. A long time waiting Knowing what is being done is so much better than being in the dark and waiting to hear anything at all. Then why don't you make the program for him since you care soo much about his view on emailing people. And why would I send my gun out to ano again, when I first had it it was Blue to black, and the first time I sent it to ano it was Max Anodizing because I never heard of WW at the time.

[Forest Spyder]

Sure, it's really not that hard. Mainly PHP I would imagine. Worst case, you do it the quality way and handwrite E-mails or make a quick telephone call. It goes a long way.

[AR55 MtM]

I'm sure he will applaud you if you do it

[DirtMcgirt]

Originally posted by pantzaroff16
OK?
1. Get a life quit ranting!
2. Everyone has bad experiences so STFU!


you're not funny.

[Blacksheep]

Originally posted by Forest Spyder


Woeful attempt to back out of an argument with your pride intact. Too bad you tripped as you went out the back door.

If anything, a motorbike custom shop would want more time, because they fabricate all the stuff from scratch. Most of the time WWA just takes a body and re-anodzies, or just does some machine work on the body.

For most custom work, I would doubt that he's taking a blank billet of aluminum and machines it into a whole new body, then anodizes it.

It's kinda like TheAngelGuy and the Predator mod. It took over a month to do, however there is an automated E-mail system and online status ticket that you can check, and the techs fill it out for you to see, and you can always call up Dee and ask what's going on.

It's not the wait time, it's the nature of the wait time. A long time waiting Knowing what is being done is so much better than being in the dark and waiting to hear anything at all.

Nope, you're wrong apparently, 3 custom shops prove you wrong. You're proven wrong by the very point you're trying to make, how ironic is that? You are trying to say that it takes longer for choppers and yet they still manage. But the fact is, it obviously doesn't for the simple fact that it doesn't happen!

As far a Dirt McGirt...you're post was hilarious, especially after being covered twice! I tell, ya, those bad jokes keep gettin' better and better!