problems with bko's and icd

[paintkid12]

well first off, i wanna say that i think bko's and b2k4s both shoot like a dream. My whole team decided to upgrade, and here's how it went.
one got an impulse vision-i dont like the feel
two got bkos-could rip on it better than the impy
one got an 04 cocker-slow but nice

now i want to get a b2k4 but, my friend with teh bko on his second day of play, the thing leaked like a bat outta heck. So we checked the regs and checked the bolt, and couldnt find the problem. So we sent it to our local store to fix it. They said it needed to be sent in for warranty, and that we did. Now the other bko also had its own set of problems, it seemed that the electronics were not working correctly because it wouldnt turn on sometimes (note: we put new battaries in it). Also the thing chopped 12 balls out of 500, and it was running on an egg. The store guy told us that the detents were crap and that the egg was double feeding...well at least his gun was working untill about a month later the same leak thing happened and he sent it in under warranty.
Also it took a good three weeks to get the guns back and one of them still has a leak.
(note: these are 04 bko extreme's)

so anyways i was wondering if all of icd's products were this awfull, because i really like the b2k4's better than the impy's but at least the impy's work . please give me your thoughts...

[yoda101]

should of come to these forums first or at pbnation :) 99% of all markers will have their little quirks and problems. Once you learn these problems they are very very easy to fix. There are a few people here that can solve 95% of your issues by giving you suggestions instead of sending them in. The Egg problem was 1 of two problems either like the guy said the egg was double feeding, which could of been solved by putting a piece of macroline inside your detent or you had blowback. On the hissing problem I am guessing your solenoid screws came loose and just needed to be re-tightened. Once you learn of these problems and know how to correct them the b2k or bko is as easy as pie to work with. I have a bko and b2k and have not needed to open either up this whole year for any issues they both work like a dream.

[lucky7]

yeah, and the reason the other gun wouldn't turn on sometimes might have been an incorrectly adjusted trigger.....mostly all of your problems could have been solved with a little allen wrench twirling....and here's a tip for you, most shops don't know jack about ICD guns....they just look at it, say it's broke and send it to ICD.

Come here with your problems, screw pro shops.....and if we can't help you, send it straight to ICD yourself, no use paying the proshop to do it for you.

[lotus_esprit5]

^ I agree. When I first got my gun, it had a couple of quirks that I had to figure out. For example, learning how to tune the regs. Its easy, but there's a certain way to do it with BKO's and Bushies. And my valve set screw came loose and I had to loctite it. But other than that it has worked great, I have it running pretty smooth right now and havent had any problems.

Most of the time it is very easy to fix a BKO or a Bushy yourself. The first rule for fixing a Bushy is DONT LEAVE IT AT YOUR SHOP! I'm not trying to diss the guys at your shop, but most shops dont know crap about Bushies. None of the ones in my area do. I wouldn't trust them to work on my gun, and there is no way I would pay $25 an hour for it.

With the first BKO you talked about, if it is leaking out the barrel then it is a valve leak (cheack the cupseal and valve o-ring), if it sounds like it is leaking from the grip, it is either because the LPR is turned up too high or the solenoid screws are not tight.

With the second BKO, it could be chopping because either the detents are too weak or it has blowback, which is rare for 2004's. For the detents, cut an o-ring sized piece of macroline and put it inside the o-ring in each detent. This will re-enforce them. To test for blowback, put a ball in the chamber, place a tissue over the feedneck, and fire the paintball. If the tissue flies off the feedneck, you have blowback, which can be fixed by getting a Vapor Bolt at www.paintballtrader.com

Gives us some details about the BKO that is still leaking, we can probly tell you what the problem is. Where is it leaking from, and what is the inline pressure set at?

[lucky7]

wow, thanks for agreeing with me lotus ;)

[lotus_esprit5]

well actually i was agreeing with Yoda and its just that it took so long to type that long friggin post that you posted before I was finished. But i'll agree with you too if it means that much to you :tup:

[lucky7]

yeah i know, thats why i had the winky smiley guy after it....and thanks, it does mean a lot to me

[artshark]

Some what OT: is poor efficiency the only problem a crooked valve will cause?


Art

[lotus_esprit5]

it'll cause low velocity, and large velocity fluctuations (if the valve moves after every shot due to kick/vibrations from firing). basically it just impedes the airflow in the gun by restricting the air passage.

[artshark]

Oh, ok.

Art

[pnda_express]

Ya mostro shops dont know about bushies. Id ask someone around here.

[paintkid12]

another question i got offered a good condition 03 lcd matrix for 500... the same prie as a new b2k4 pds. which is the better choice? is 500 even a good deal for a used trix? thnx

[Born_to_Race]

Does it have eyes?

If it does I'd go with the trix. Even if it doesn't that's still a very tempting offer.

[paintkid12]

do 03's come stock with eyes?
im pretty sure that he put a new reg on it, and the only reason he's selling it low is that hes kinda a distance friend.\
if it doesnt have eyes it would chop like mad though....



side note: do b2k4's have the same crappy detents that the bko's have?

[rock]

if its a 03 dye matrix lcd, im pretty sure it comes with the brake beem eyes, and if it doesnt come with eyes get a halo B, and then upgrade to the eyes. but actually trixes can be run at such a low pressure, they dont chop mutch at all.But ya, if the trix has eyes get it, the b2k4 is awsome but i like trixes better.

[lotus_esprit5]

Yeah, if the Trix has eyes, get it. Thats a really good deal. As much as I like B2K4's, that is a pretty good price for a Trix. It has less kick than B2K4, and slightly faster trigger IMO (and with a roller trigger it flat out rips).

I think all LCD's come with eyes, right? and they are break-beam, so you know they are good.

[JustBunkered]

no gen-e matrix comes with eyes. The only matrix that comes stock with eyes are dmfizzles, dye matrix, and some afermarket trixs.

[yoda101]

still without eyes that is a tough deal to pass up on

[paintkid12]

i asked if it has eyes and it doenst, he's selling it with a new reg (dont know what kind).
only thing is a i played with it using an egg, and it chops like mad going over 14 bps.
plus it gtes like 700 shots out of a 68/45 which is downright awful...
so idk what to do

[JustBunkered]

a matrix is a good fast gun. I have seen a matrix with no eyes and a halo not chop at all. Yes, a matrix has horrible efficnecy, but if you get free air it is not a problem. You can also upgrade to an evolve bolt kit for better efficency. On the other hand, a b2k4 with PDS is also a good marker. It is plenty fast and it has eyes. You can't really beat the price of the matrix though...

[Rich4444]

....and here's a tip for you, most shops don't know jack about ICD guns....they just look at it, say it's broke and send it to ICD.

AMEN! I'll agree with you Lucky7!!! Except, I think you could change that to "ANY GUNS" in most cases. There are two shops in my area that are not related to fields, and neither of them have much (even something simple like stinking autococker barbs... EVERYONE has an autococker! gimme a break!, it is a $1 part!)

I've seen many repair jobs last for no time at all. I'm actually going to start doing my own marker repairs in my area I think, because REALLY all guns are not very complex if you read up for about 2-3 hours on them, take one apart and look at it closesly, and know proper lubrication and tuning. It is just going to take me some cash to get some spare inventory and scuba equipment :)

I also say buy the matrix for $500 as long as you know it is in good shape. I've worked on a Matrix now, and the workings seem very simple and nice, it is quick to strip apart, and they have a very comfortable fit. I really think they are a pretty nice marker, and pretty easy to maintain. Really, there are just your regs and the bolt assembly you can get at without any tools even. Simple great design.

Or, I'll have a review on my Epic by early next week I'm pretty sure :) $500 new from ICE. (mech trigger though)

[ShootPaint]

Originally posted by lotus_esprit5
Yeah, if the Trix has eyes, get it. Thats a really good deal. As much as I like B2K4's, that is a pretty good price for a Trix. It has less kick than B2K4, and slightly faster trigger IMO (and with a roller trigger it flat out rips).

I think all LCD's come with eyes, right? and they are break-beam, so you know they are good.


I truely am disappointed in your guys. Sending this person off to the dark side to get himself a trix when I can take a Bushy and make it do anything a trix can do and be more efficent to boot.

The biggest thing the Trix has over the bushy is recoil. The currect ram assembly for the B2K does require a higher pressure to cycle than the trix but this is being taken care of :) (look for tester post within the next 30 days ((HOPEFULLY****HAS FINGERS CROSSED)))

I cant say this one for sure so I am just going to give the trix the benefit of the doubt and say that it will cycle quicker than the bushy can, when comparing the mechanical parts of each marker. Now think about this though, Defiance has tested the Bushy up to 25+ BPS and was able to hold it in the Plus or Minus 3 FPS range. How many people are truely going to pull this kinda BPS???

Finally the Trix also gets the LBS class hands down as well. Pick up a Trix and then a bushy. You will see the Bushy is about half the weight of a trix.

I have rambled enough.
Hope you enjoy which ever marker you get. Either one will be a good choice but take the time to try them both out before you purchase one or the other.

[lotus_esprit5]

heh, sry man, I'm selling out! Trix's flat out rip IMO, they shoot very smoothly. But yes, it does annoy me that they are heavier. It seems like they could shave a few more ounces of metal off the Trix if they wanted to.

I figured, if the Trix has eyes, then $500 is an extremely good deal and the Trix is definately the one to get. But since it doesn't, I'm kinda leaning toward the Bushy. But if you have a Halo, then the fact that the matrix doesnt have eyes isnt as big of a deal....

[yoda101]

Originally posted by lotus_esprit5
heh, sry man, I'm selling out! Trix's flat out rip IMO, they shoot very smoothly. But yes, it does annoy me that they are heavier. It seems like they could shave a few more ounces of metal off the Trix if they wanted to.


even though i said its a tough deal to pass up on... come to my field one day and I will show you how a bushy can rip :) I can keep up and for the most part outshoot anything with my setup I love it that much. Why do you think i drop so much into b2k's and bkos? Main reason I told him if that was the deal on the trix to pick it up is resale value. For whatever reason we all know the bushy's just dont sell real well, trix has that name and he may be able to get a couple bux more for it down the line if he decides to sell it. The other like SP said is recoil, the trix hardly has any compared to a b2k, but if you arent a little weakling and know how to stabalize your setup this shouldnt be an issue to begin with.

[paintkid12]

im sorry i have been gone for a couple of days... (didnt get a chance to read)
anyways IMO i would rather spend the money on a new gun and get the warranty and customer service. But, (big but) just about everyone i have known with a bko
or a b2k4 has ahd problems with it, whether it be smal ones like the solenoid leaking, or bigger ones. Compare that to just about everyone else at my home field have trix's or cocker''s that just never break down. Then on the other hand, the b2k4 has PDS which IMO is huge compared to the 03 which doesnt.


so really for me what it comes down to is... WHat would my field rather fix? that is gotta be hands down the matrix...

still im confused about which one to get (not which ones better)
thnx for your help

[lotus_esprit5]

in my experience its kinda the opposite. The only problem my Bushy has had is a loose valve set screw. Meanwhile, my friend just got a Trix a few weeks ago and it leaked right out of the box. Turned out one of the inline o-rings was bad, but we spent awhile checking and lubing every o-ring in the gun just to make sure. It took awhile. A long. long. time. Well not really it didnt take more than an hour, but trix's do kinda tend to have leak problems because they have so many o-rings. you gotta keep'em lubed well.

When this kid I know got his venom, i set up his regs for him and cleaned and lubed the internals and it runs so smooth, close to Matrix-like. Mine is definately smoother and has less kick than an Impulse, but the regs and valve are all stock so it isnt quite as polished as the venom of course.

[pbfreak47]

this seems like a pretty tough decision. i know a kid thats got a led matrix w/ no eyes and i can totally rip on that gun!! and with a halo no chops. ive only shot it once though so i dont know about the maintenance and stuff like that. but i always consider buying a used gun but i always worry about the performance of it. so in the long run i think it would be better to buy a new bushy you know for a fact will work well for you.

[Rich4444]

That is the other consideration that I think is the biggest to consider yet.

New Bushy vs. Used Matrix

How well do you know this seller again?

Maybe this marker is such a deal for a reason. Everyone is going to say they are selling it JUST because they need the money and are giving you a great deal... but 95% of the people I know don't give great deals, they usually want MORE for something than it is worth (I also see it when working with insurance claims in my job :| )

so... make sure if you're buying this marker you do a few things first.. #1. Shoot it if you can, make sure it works and has no leaks. Buy a $35 or $40 case of paint, and fill up your air tank (or a couple), and just go shoot a case of paint through it. See if it still works.

Second, check and see if the marker was stolen. Write down the serial number and look at missingmarkers.com, and maybe even check at your local field and ask if any matrix were stolen, and ask for the serial number if they say yes and compare it! (A local field just happened to catch a shocker thief this way through a dilligent buyer).

If all that checks out... then I'd stick with a matrix over a BKO for sure, but vs. a B2k I'm not as sure as I've not used that model marker yet.

The matrix I saw still impressed me though, from the trigger to the lcd to the assembly/disassembly to the function of the marker. However, my teammate had a leak with his evolve kit that I couldnt track down very easily, and he was on his second blown solenoid (not sure exactly how he did that with an LPR on the marker, but it was blown from everything I could tell).

I had another teammate with a B2k though, that constantly had problems with chops though. And I had some headaches with my BKO as well. I think almost any marker takes a little time to learn to maintain and adjust it well to your liking.

Good luck, and I'll plug my Epic again... I practiced with it this weekend and loved the function, and the rate of fire was better than I thought... but it was slow compared to a matrix or tweaked BKO/B2K.