BKO vs. The I.C.E. Epic

[Rich4444]

Hey guys! I just got my Epic :) I'm so anxious to tell people about it, and since I'm also a BKO owner, here I be!

Rate of Fire
I always start with the bad, because I'm a pesimistic guy LOL. The Epic DOES NOT have a high rate of fire. The manual says 9bps, and I bet you can't get over 12 without short stroking it and dropping your velocity down to next to nothing. My ups BKO is pretty good rate of fire right now. So, BKO kicks tail here...

Weight
The BKO with Freak & Drop is about the same as the Epic when I held it (when it matters). The Epic is balanced better by itself though... my BKO is way more front heavy, and feels like you have to hold the front up. The Epic seems to point up by itself. Maybe because the reg is in the handle?

Sound
I think a barrel makes a HUGE difference here... so I'll just stick to the Epic description because it is so weird. "Plink, Plink, Plink"... high pitched, not really ALL that quiet, but not loud either. Very different sound.

Chops
BKO: Some chops stock depending on loader.
Epic: NO chops. of course at 9bps, you won't get many chops anyway with many markers, but this has NO chops EVER!!

Profile
Epic wins hands down. It is about the size of an Automag. Tiny!!!

Accuracy
Hmm, I wasn't matching paint in the Epic, and it was pretty accurate, but I wasn't shooting that far. I'll let you know when I have more shooting with it under my belt. But, with no kick, it faired pretty well. My BKO is pretty accurate though also, but I think the Epic wins this battle with a pretty considerable lead. My BKO isn't perfect, but my Epic is 100% stock.

Feedneck
The New Epic has a verticle offset right feedneck, and I love it. It just uses a set hex screw, but it really holds the hopper well. Fit my Halo B and Revy fine. Much nicer than the stock BKO feedneck, and you can look down the barrel.

My BKO has a clamping feedneck that works good, but was (and still is) a little too small for my Halo B. I was just sick of sanding hehe. Also, it doesnt hold the hopper as still as that little hex screw. If you think about a new feed neck on your marker, I'd first buy a drill/tap set, and get a little hex screw. It works awesome.

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Overall, I would say that I like the Epic better, but the BKO is only $330 vs $450. For rate of fire the Epic takes MAJOR setback points, but I think it makes it up in the no ball break and accuracy. Plus it is VERY simple, and the stock Epic Regulator (in the gripframe) seems to work pretty nice from what I've seen. I'll let you know how it shoots over the chrono asap, but I never liked my BKO at the chrono up until recently with my new bolt replacing the damaged one.

So, if you want rate of fire, I'd go BKO. If you want a small profile, accurate, and easy to maintain marker with no ball chops, I'd go Epic :)

You know, I think this would be an awesome scenario gun also.

[RaGeD P1NGA]

http://www.pbaz.com/pictures/sale/worthless.gif

[Rich4444]

Here they be! You can click the thumb below to get to an index with a few pics... nothing too much. I tried to keep the file sizes small too :)


http://www.wisconsinpaintballteams.com/Epic/epicnbkothumb.jpg
(http://www.wisconsinpaintballteams.com/Epic/)

[bkomaster2k3]

how much was the epic?

[JustBunkered]

the epic looks boring. I'd stick with the BKO, but stick to whatever you like best.

[Rich4444]

It is actually a little challenging to use, because you don't want to shoot too fast, so you have to pace yourself a bit.

I paid $450.00 for it, plus an extra $50.00 for a bunch of extra seal kits and what not. I figured with it being such a rarely used marker, I better get plenty of spare parts.

I'll see this weekend how it compares. You know, it is funny, but that little bit of kick you see from a BKO when you shoot fast (just that little bit), really throws off your shooting accuracy. I felt with this thing, I could just focus on my target and hold it all day.

I'm really anxious to try the freak on it and start matching paint, and chrono it. I'm going to test my ROF over the chrono too, and see what I can get out of the marker, and if I can go over 9bps easily or not.

I'm keeping the BKO though. I want to have a very solid backup because my teammates are always breaking their marker and my BKO should NOW hold up good with the new bolt :)

[SilentButDeadly]

Maybe the reason that your BKO is front heavy is because you have the humongous drop on it?

You also forgot a very important comparative point. Looks! IMO that Epic thing looks :yuck:, but that's just me.

[[Infusion]BigC]

The Epic is fugly.

Right offset feeds annoy me and make the gun not centered. Why whould you ever be looking down the top of the barrel?

9bps is slow. It makes it difficult to hold a lane.

Of course the epic is going to seem to have less kick at a high ROF becuase it isn't shooting as fast.

Also, my tippmann never chopped either and I used a VL200, does that make it better then a BKO? I think a marker that claims to never chop is pretty worthless if it couldn't even outrun a VL Quantum (rated at 9bps).

Then again, that's all just my opinion. :D

Congrats on your new gun! Enjoy!

[bkomaster2k3]

where did u get it at

[JustBunkered]

Why would you spend 500$ on that when you could get something with eyes and faster? Just wondering, as long as you like it thats all that matters.

[RaGeD P1NGA]

im assuming the epic gun is mechanical right?

[artshark]

This isn't fair. I'd compare an Epic to a 'cocker, they're both not speed demons, both for the more precise, slower paced player. And you forgot maintenance. Here the Epic tops. Only one moving part, one bore to clean, and one reg.


Art

[JustBunkered]

precise? accuracy is all about paint/bore match, nothing to do with a gun

[lotus_esprit5]

Also, my tippmann never chopped either and I used a VL200, does that make it better then a BKO? I think a marker that claims to never chop is pretty worthless if it couldn't even outrun a VL Quantum (rated at 9bps).
Actually, it is nearly impossible to chop with an Epic because it doesnt have a bolt. The only thing that contacts the ball is air. Kind of like an autococker, except without a bolt, if that makes any sense. But I agree with you, it doesnt matter as much because this isnt a particularly fast gun compared to today's electronic guns. But even mech cockers and such chop occasionally, so it does have some value.

Anyways congrats on your new gun Rich! I remember back when you first said you were getting one like a few months ago. I like obscure guns, but Epics are a little too out-there for me personally to get one, but I.C.E gets an "A+" for innovation. It looks pretty fugly, but i think it sorta adds to the character of the gun, kinda like Blazers and Vikings. And it makes the otherwise svelte BKO look like a fat-***. How's the kick, would you compare it to a Matrix?

Edit: yep they are mechanical. They just shoot air to propel the ball, no bolt. You can short-stroke on them, so that makes it a bit harder to shoot fast. But not everyone needs to shoots lanes, and it would probly make a great scenario and woodsball gun. Also, build quality is very good, they are supposed to be very reliable.

[artshark]

Originally posted by JustBunkered
precise? accuracy is all about paint/bore match, nothing to do with a gun


But the trap door=less reciprocating parts=less potential kick=less gun movement.



Art

[lotus_esprit5]

But the trap door=less reciprocating parts=less potential kick=less gun movement.
For once, I'm gonna have to side with Art on this one, sorry JB. I'll just do double-duty on him next time he says something stupid, to make up for it.

[artshark]

Originally posted by lotus_esprit5

For once, I'm gonna have to side with Art on this one, sorry JB. I'll just do double-duty on him next time he says something stupid, to make up for it.

t3h fux0r? When the only nice guy here recognizes I'm right, I have to get pwned next time I trip up, roughly 5-6 posts?


Art

[lotus_esprit5]

lol I'm just playin Art, I'd only rip on you if you say something REALLY stupid.

[Born_to_Race]

Originally posted by artshark


t3h fux0r? When the only nice guy here recognizes I'm right, I have to get pwned next time I trip up, roughly 5-6 posts?


Art

lotus is the only nice guy :( :cry:

j/k

I think the epic's body looks good but that trigger frame really takes away from it. What threads does it have?

[artshark]

I believe cocker. I know the barrel is made by CP but it's not a production CP barrel.


Art

[ImpYa]

Good job Rich :tup:!

This one is going in the FAQ.

[barrel0fMonkeys]

I think the accuracy had to do with the barrels you used...Freak on the BKo and a CP on the epic.

[Rich4444]

Ok, sorry I didn't get back sooner with a follow up :)

I actually got to use the Epic (http://www.icepaintball.com)this weekend in a practice. On the way down, I stopped at a local shop and picked up a Freak back for the Epic, and Auto-Cocker threading is correct! Also, it is only Mechanical, and appears to just use a High Pressure Reg, which is built into the handle, not the foregrip which is just for looks/comfort.

I compared the marker now with the Freak kit on it and matched paint. The paint I used in the stock was .684-.687, and the stock barrel is .693. With the Freak matched though, I didn't notice a huge improvement in accuracy that I could tell, but I shot at relatively close targets with the stock vs shooting all the way across the field with the Freak kit. It seemed though, that I could really land balls right where I wanted, and I was arc'ing them because I try to keep my velocity around 260 during practice.

It has NO kick, it is unbelievable that way, and my favorite part of the marker. I've worked on a Matrix one night and shot it, this has WAY less kick in my opinion. When you fire it, you have to pay attention that a ball came out the other side, lets put it that way. I think Art might have been right there too, that it seems so accurate because the marker doesnt move when you pull the trigger.

The Chrono speed was really awesome too. I could easily (one screw for the regulator) chrono the marker, and it came in about +/- 5 fps or better. The end of the day I did worse, but that was a bag of 3 year old Big Ball I switched to, LOL. (and still no breaks)

I was able to take it apart when my cousin broke a ball in the feed neck, and it is REALLY simple inside. Just a flat little part, called the trap door, that just sits on top of a little metal rod. It was VERY simple to clean, but required a phillips screwdriver (so you're not cleaning the breech easily on the field if you break a ball in the neck somehow due to poor paint or something). I didn't get ANY breech breaks all day. And the one/two barrel breaks I had, I actually was able to shoot through (which was wierd because the freak doesnt self clean like my J&J ceramic on my BKO). I might have short stroked it and double fed a ball to cause the break maybe. The one in the neck I don't know HOW that happened. My cousin didn't have a hopper on it, and I bet he pushed down thinking he'd have to avoid blow back or something and broke it against the trap door when it was closed? (he was pushing on it I could tell). Maybe he is just sore I didn't buy his $650 timmy LOL.

I used my revy all day at practice, and my balls per second rate didnt seem all that bad after I really got to use the marker in a few games. I think I came down too hard on the rate of fire, but I am not a "back" player by definition, only by height and weight LOL. Typically I only shoot a hopper +1 pod per game.

Also, I think my BKO was top heavy from the mitey max and freak barrel and CP reg (remember, the Epic reg is in the grip frame). That stock CP Epic barrel is pretty short and very light too. PS, that was the ICD drop I bought and on my BKO there hehe :)

Hmm, the only thing otherwise I didn't cover was the efficiency. On my 88/3000 fills I was doing pretty good. That IS a huge tank though, but I shot several games back to back and never dropped below 1000 psi all day. The games were light though.

Anyway, since this is a vs. thread, I'll wrap it up like this. My teammate had his gun down all day, so he used my now good working BKO for the day. He did very well with that gun, and my Epic worked great for me. So, luckily I have 2 guns, but I DO prefer my Epic for my play style, but my BKO is still damn nice! So, how do I stop people from begging to use my BKO now LOLOL HAHAHA

[lucky7]

Originally posted by Rich4444
So, how do I stop people from begging to use my BKO now LOLOL HAHAHA


start charging rent.....that will either stop them from asking....or make you some money to offset the price of the epic.

[greenshoes3]

do you have a green bko?

[Rich4444]

Yep, 2003 Green BKO, unmilled.

LOL, I thought about that actually. I thought, I could go to tourneys now with the BKO to watch, wait until a guys says "AHH, my marker is broke!" and then come out with the fully decked out BKO and say "$25.00 rental fee" LOL.