Autococker/WGP FAQ

[DasBaldDog]

Please contribute.

(Do not post questions, please post information about Autocockers only please, I had to delete the last thread cause it was full of "Macro line sucks" and "Does milling look cool?")

*ANYONE can make some additions to our ever growing FAQ page, but only on one condidtion... You know what you are talking about!

[SPEED]

Here is a must read site for those looking for answers!

http://www.geocities.com/speed1103/Paintball/AutoCocker.html

Bah! Here, just made it a web page...

[ry_goody]

You will find pretty much everything and anything you need to know about cockers here http://www.paintballravi.com/

[vantrepes]

Articles on:
Timing, setting up an inline reg, what to look for in upgrades, and a detailed step by step on installing a new three way (covers installing a new LP reg too)
www.moodypaintball.com

A quick fix:
If your velocity drops over the course of the day, check the o-ring on the adjuster, if its eaten up, replace it with a tank o-ring.

[Silent Knight]

Please keep in mind that the main purpose of having these forums is to help on another out, and not to flame someone or put them down because they don't know the right answer. Everything will flow much better when we all try to help out!


Somone who has helped me along the way....
If you need any one on one help, then I urge you to give this guy an email, he is very helpful, and one of the coolest guys I have met online.

Doc Holiday - www.cockerhelp.cjb.net

His website is mostly just a bio about himself, you will gain the most by giving him and email, you can expect to get an answer for what you are looking for

cockerhelp@yahoo.com


Autococker Parts List with pictures, and terms!!! Take a look
2k Autococker Diagram and terms *A must read/look! (http://www.nventure.com/rkr/nelson/cocker/cockerDiagram.jpg)

[vantrepes]

To remove a valve, follow these steps:
1: Remove beaver tail, grip frame and bolt.

2: Take out the cocking rod, remove velocity adjuster and main spring, reinstall cocking rod.

3:Raise hammer lug untill it clears the inside of the lower tube, and remove hammer.

4: Remove valve jam nut with valve tool.

5: Remove retaining set screw fron under the body.

6: Shake to get the valve to fall out.

To put it back together, reverse the steps.
Be careful when you reinstall the jam nut, if you damage the threads in the body, you will have to buy a new body.

[vantrepes]

The jam nut sits between the hammer and the valve in the body. If you take the hammer out, and look into the body, you'll see a hex nut that is open on both ends, with the valve stem sticking out of it. That's the jam nut.
You can use a hex key, but to do it that way, you need to push down the valve stem, and its easy to get it out, but very hard to get it back in, better off using a valve tool.
You are also going to need to retime the gun when you are done.

[DasBaldDog]

If you are not VERY SURE of how to take apart a cocker, then DON'T. Do not risk it. Take it to a knowledgable person.

[tut00]

Being new to cockers, I was looking for a parts list that showed everything in it. Well, i have found one and figured this was a good place to put it. So that others could find it too.

Link to lager picture: http://ghostspb.netfirms.com/cocker_Dia_large.htm

[Needstuff]

What stock op pressure are cockers at???? answer? i duno

[vantrepes]

I have seen stock regs set anywhere from 350 to 500psi. Most stock cocker seem to run best between 350-400psi.

[Byte]

Autococker Internet Resource and Owners Group (http://www.air-powered.com/)
Helpful information for all cocker owners and an extensive Faq section.

[advocate]

How does a cocker run on co2? I know it runs better on Nitrogen, but will a cocker run better than a spyder with co2?
I currently have a 47ci 3000psi 32 Degrees tank, but someone said that it was not very good.
Thanks for your times.


P.S. I really appreciate this forum. I am a n00b to this sport and this forum has helped me alot :) .

[Silent Knight]

How Well Will A Cocker Run on Co2?

A cocker will run fine on Co2, not everyone can afford the investment of N2, but rest assured that co2 is the alternative that can be use on an autococker. The autococker was designed to run on both Co2 or HPA. A few points to remember, be sure you are using an anti-siphoned Co2 tank, and the further extract the best performance use a inline regulator more geared towards Co2 usage.

[snipinhick]

Or if you decided that you have too many tanks to put a A/S kit in, you could buy a remote system, and that should do about the same as the anti syphon, by allowing the Liquid CO2 to expand along the long line of hose on a remote... Be carefull though, remotes do seem to leak easy if not well taken care of.

[amz370]

here are 3 good links to posts that i find are really helpful
the guy that wrote this is so smart
http://www.pbreview.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45980
http://www.pbreview.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45883
http://www.pbreview.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45901\
i know ur all to lazy to read all that
so heres they are
If you're looking into getting a cocker vs another gun

ask around in the other forums
test the guns out
consier what esentials u already have, ie revy, n2 drop
consider what you want speed vs acuuracy vs reliability (cockers have accuracy and reliability, and they can have some nice *** speed
how much money do u want to spend
do some research on how much each thing costs, u can't compare a stock mag vs a free flow
what type of preformance level are u needing, if you're into rec, u probably can't use full out auto, but you might in some tourneys (not all)
if you have aposition, what is it, whats your startagies, like if your a back man u might use spray and pay, to do this with a acoker, u need a hinge most likely or an e grip if you're in front how fast do u need to snap shoot
depending on who u are, may be consider wheight or length
how much money do u want to dump in a cocker is pretty good stock, but a good barel, inline reg, and a few other things could help
how often do u go paintballing, if u don't go alot, don't bother, if u go alot, get a higher end gun such as a cocker
are u a person who likes to tinker with there gun, cockers may not be for u if you don't know what ur doing, u can screw up the gun pretty bad
How nice looking a gun do u want, cause imho cockers are about the sweetest guns aroud

if u have any cocker vs other guns, use the list and compare the features, make pro's and cons acording to the list, plus any u think of


Well there are many threads on what people should by next with there money, i have made like 2 of these in the past, but now there are millions of them so here are some upgrades starting form a stock 2k2 vert cocker with a n2 system (u can have co2 but if u got the money for upgrades, u should probably get n2, much more consistant, if u ahve 2 use co2, use ati syphon, or a remote) and an ehopper like revy, 12v with xboard if u can, a 9 will do, 12v w/o x board is board is nice to, what i got, a ricoche is great, so is the new halo, all though u don't need the speed, a warp feed is good if u want a lower profile, but u sill need an e hopper to load it, all in all the system will run ya about 180 bucks. with the n2 ull need a drop and an air dilivery system, ie macro line or steel braded, i don't recomend micro line, ive seen some ugly things

barel, the stock barel on cockers aint great, if u shoot one paint consitantly get a boomy, but order it size spicifice to that paint, if u shoot a bunch of different paint, and got a lot of cahs, get a freak, equation multi sqitch pro, or cp barel, possibly the artanus, if ur broke like me, get a bizerk, 80 bucks and 8 inches
front reg, rock or micro, jackhammer, there are alot
trigger frame, the stock trigger frames are a multi polymer, nd i have seen ones hat are broken in half, or just minor cracks that still screw it up pretty bad, if u want a sliding trigger like the stock frame, dye and ans make some of the best, kapp makes good ones too, if u want a hinge, cheapest is wgp, or shocktech (shocktech is ugly)most expensive, and possibly the best, uk maid eclipse blade (u need metric renches folks, ive heard a bunch of stupid questions involving that), i like the new aka, or the kapp, dye makes good ones two and so does system x
if u get a new hinge u deffinatly need a new 3way, but a new 3 way can help alot any way, some of the best are the new wgp one, it has a thumb adjustmant (no dealling with the damn timing rod) the shocktech bomb is very nice as well, so is the ans one and pro paintball makes a good one for sliding triggers
a new bolt is nice, the main ones are probably the ans quick fire, aka lighting, and shock tech supa fly, supafly is a derlin bolt, quickpull doesn't require a push pin, and lightning, well thats very nice all in all
a new ram is nice, can help the smoothness of ur firing, ans and sto's are some of the best, i think kapp and dye make em 2, i don't know 2 much about them, the stock one is pretty good, wile ur buying the new ram, might as well get a new pump arm, go titianiam people, it's the best
if u want that sliding trigger, but u want to keep it short, get a flatened timing rod, u can't have a saftey once installed so be ware, it does cut back on the slak in the pull, u can't use it on a hinge
cocking rod's can help, the stock ones strip pretty easy, kapp makes a good 1
new springs can help eas the trigger, the stock one ware down some, im not shure who makes good ones other that proffesional paintball
smae thing goes for valves and other internals
new grips can add that nice touch that makes ya feel good, i got houges, dye makes good ones and so does 32°
new inline reg is very helpfull, if u got cash, ans genx-3's are exelent, will run ya about 100 may b more, vigilanties are good ones for like 60
now if u like the feel, a 15° asa adapter
the last things are body, the body of ur cocker makes it just so much more ur's. im not gonna get started on kinds, but check out spanky bodies, or go over to g3pb.com or fireballmountain.com may b ripper milling to
well thats about it
[/list=1]
DO [list]
Lube Your cocker
Keep it clean
clean your cocker after every use
if possible use N2, co2 is ok though
keep it timed
keep it protected, don't just leave it out
have fun with your cocker

DON't
Mess with it if it aint brok
touch the timing rod if it's timed
wash out the internals
take it apart
leave it out
hurt it
turn up the fps to high
turn up the cocking pressure
take off your beaver tail unless u have to else you'll get nocked
get drunk and "speed test" your cocker against you budy
use lil' ruber balls instaed of paint
use dirty paint
leave your bolt unsecure, always use a push pin
use vasaline as a lube, although it can be done it's a dirt magnet
get concerned about aperance of your proformance
coat the bolt with teflon tape so it's "just a little slower"
use co2 without a reg
use n2 without a reg
have to muc fun with your cocker, if u catch my drift


if you have any more ideas, just tell me and ill add em in the list

[TrunksPT]

The truth about Co2 and their effects on Autococker.

This not only applys to autocockers but pretty much all other markers using Co2 gas.

Thermodynamics
The first law states that energy in a system, which may be anything from a simple object to a complex machine, cannot be created or destroyed. Instead, energy is either converted from one form into another or transferred from one system to another.

The second law of thermodynamics deals with the natural direction of energy processes. For example, acording to this law, heat will, of its own accord, flow only from a hotter object to a colder object.

In Cocker terms:
When screwing in a Co2 tank into your marker the liquid Co2 escapes the bottle and rushes throught the tank reciever (asa) to the hose. while in the hose it is exposed to outside conditions and starts to expand and turn into gas. As it changes form it releases an energy. This energy is cold frost. This happens because Co2 absorbs heat, to turn it into a gas, and leaves it cold to the touch. Most of the times the liquid does not all turn into a gas. So the semi gasious and liquid travels up to the regulator. The purpose of the regulator is to bring the psi of the gas into an appropriate level, but lets not get into that. As most co2 users know your regulator then gets cold very quickly. Its still transfering from liquid to gas even at this point. Remember that if you put 100% oz into your marker that you will get 100% oz out of your marker. "cannot be created or destroyed" What happens to all that? Most should be converted into Co2 gas and a tiny bit of liquid left. In a perfect world all 100% oz co2 would come in as a liquid and all 100% oz co2 would leave as a gas. But its not like that. This is why Co2 is not that great in consistancy. Not all of the liquid is transfered into a gas. Since we do know what it takes great amounts of energy to turn a liquid to a gas and causes an endothermic reaction we can say that most of the cocker's internals will also get cold. What is in the cocker? well tons of o-rings. This endothermic reaction will cause o-rings to swell and dry up. If the o-ring swells then it won't be able to its job effectively which is to stop gas from escaping in a certain direction. This causes leaks throughout the marker. And by drying the o-ring up it is likely to crack and break.

From experience:
I have no problem with co2 in my marker (not anti-syphoned). It works fine and consistancy is horrible. With this gas set up I was more than likely to break some o-rings but I didn't. It is a better idea to get it anti-syphoned and maybe run a remote so the time of expansion will be over a greater amount of time and space. The Myth that Co2 will break your cocker. Is false... The worse co2 can do is damage o-rings, which cause leaks, and gives you a very uneven consistancy. The final solution to solve this is to get a HPA system. If you have the cash get it and it will save you from any troubles. Co2 is fine to use so don't worry about it as long as you know what it can do and know how to stop it by taking the nessesarry steps to prevent it.

Other alternitives:
1)Get the Palmer Stab.
2)Anti-syphon is cool
3)Get a HPA setup (*best solution)

Hopefully this Thread will prevent any more Co2 ?s and might solve some leaking problems.

Cheers,
Paul (finally getting my 68/3000 PMI carbonfiber next week)

//yes i'm pretty damn bored...

[Crisis]

People have been asking around about this.. So i've added it to the FAQ now too so i can refer you all to this...

Hello all, Crisis here to put up a little info for you all...

I've been messing with my gun again (like that is new to you guys huh?) And I've run across a FEW interesting tidbits.

First of all, ever notice that CHROME plating between different companies always seems to have a different HUE to it ? I'll bet you never really noticed... If you have it's because Chrome plating can be done cheaply and Nickel plating is the same sort of effect, now your asking what causes this, well Chrome and Nickel can only be applied to certain metals. Aluminum IS NOT one of them.. And when either method IS applied to aluminum it will flake off in time. So i ask you this..

will You ever find light weight parts that are chromed? NOPE, well that is cause they do not exist in a happy long life form.

SO I've started playing again, and what I found is this.

If you sand down a NORMAL stock aluminum Worr Games Part (speciafically ASA Adapters and the MAIN Reg) you can get a MIRROR polish out of them with about a FULL days's work..

BELIEVE ME this job is NOT for the MEEK or NON-DETAILED minded person.

I spent nearly 5 hours polishing my regulator alone (included teardown, taking out nicks, polishing, cleaning, reassembly, testing and setting the reg back to it's normal pressure) the ASA adapter and re-timing the gun after i was done was about another 3 hours.

Like I said time consuming. Now of course you could send it out and have it done for a few $$ but the amount depends on what you have done, who you send it to (WILL HAVE TO BE A PAINTBALL SHOP - or they'll damage your reg as for they have NO IDEA how they work or go together)


if you are interested or have any comments or questions feel free to email me at : Dizturbd1@SBCGLOBAL.NET

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Now if your interested, here's MY method.. for you to try on your own

180 Grit Emery tape (for removing nicks)
320 Grit Emery tape (for removing annodization)

600 Grit WET DRY sandpaper (smoothing - USE WATER!)
800/800 Grit Wet Dry (same as above)

1200/1500 Grit Wet Dry (for more polishing)

2500/3000 Grit wet dry (fine polishing)

And either Jewelers Rouge (for ALUMINUM) or
Aluminum polish. (your choice here - I like Jewelers Rouge)

Buffing wheel of some sort. (drill, dremel, or grinder type)

Drill, Dremel, OR A BENCHGRINDER that a buffing wheel can be attatched.

SAFETY GLASS'S

GLOVES.

start off LOW number to HIGH, and get the surface you want. then start applying the polish and get to buffing.

now this is a VERY VERY simple way to do this i've left out a BUNCH of details that are fairily COMMON-SENSE.

if your going to disassemble your reg and gun, this is ON YOU, I will not be held responsible for your own actions...

[Silent Knight]

Autococker FAQ

Can I run my Autococker on Co2?

Yes, it'll work fine with co2. Although it's recommended that you get yourself a good High Pressure Air system in the future. To extract maximum performance out of Co2 you should have an anti-siphon tube installed in your co2 tank, and buy an inline regulator that works great with co2 like the Palmer Stabalizer. If you dont want an on gun set up, a remote will work fine (*don't use an anti siphon tank with a remote)

Is the Autococker efficient?

Yes, you don't have to worry about efficiency at all it's one of the most efficient markers out there.

What is Short Stroking?

The Autococker has 2 seperate functions that occur during the trigger pull. There is a firing point, which is followed by the recocking point (in that order). The term "short stroking" often refers to the somewhat sloppy action involved when inexperienced cocker users pull the trigger. Not pulling the trigger ALL THE WAY is the cause of short stroking. Pulling the trigger past the firing point, and not completely pulling the trigger past the recocking point (actuating the 3-way) can lead to loading multiple balls into the breech, chopping, and frustration.
Learn the feel for the trigger, and you'll be fine.

What is Timing and how do I do it?

Much like how a car must be timed correctly, so does the Autococker. The Autococker has a lot of moving parts, and the secret to getting this marker and it's parts to perform at it's peak... everything must be in properly working order, the process involved to achieve a properly working Autococker is called "Timing" I am not going to go into full detail about timing because there are several other places where you can read up on it please refer to the other stickies and/or websites.
Like I said above the Autococker has 2 seperate functions in the trigger pull. There is a firing point (where the ball is fired from the marker) and there is a recocking point (where the next paintball is loaded into the breech) timing involves adjusting these 2 points so that they work in perfect harmony everytime the trigger is pulled. Bad timing can be very frustrating, and annoying, that is why it's a good idea to have a good grasp on this concept. Especially because upgrading specific parts on the autococker will require you to know how to time your marker.

Where can I put a gauge?

You have several options some regulators have a gauge port that will allow the user to add a guage that will indicate regulated pressure. For those regulators that don't have gauge ports, or that have gauge ports but wont read regulated output pressure you have 2 options... You can add a gauge to the front block by removing the plug underneath the front block (this will tell you your operating pressure) Or you could buy a Shocktech vertical adapter, it comes with a gauge port and it will also read your current operating pressure.

What is the Autococker's ROF?

Autocockers are capable of high rates of fire. Although you will never see the same numbers that an Angel, Emag, Matrix, impulse etc. is capable of, cockers are capable of dumping paint as fast as you can pull the trigger. A lot of people claim they can shoot their cockers @ 10bps... please realize that 10bps is a hella lot faster then you think. If you are using a chrono to measure this last time i checked the chrono figures the your ROF based on the first 3 shots that pass over the chrony. Anyhow cockers are capable of being much faster then your lower end markers without electornic triggers, but they are not electro fast.

Are autocockers Reliable?

An Autococker is only as reliable as the person who maintains it. The same can be said for any other marker out there. If you neglect it, how can you expect it to perform at it's best every time you play with it? Autococker's are very reliable, and unlike electro markers there are no batteries, boards, or selonoids that one has to worry about. The advantage of having a non electro marker is that you can probably fix it as soon as it goes down. As opposed to an electro, a bad board or blown selenoid cannot be fixed as easily. Like I just said... as long as you take care of your Autococker, It'll rip the living day lights out of your opponents. The amount of time the owner is willing to put into learning about cockers, and taking proper care of your marker will determine how reliable YOUR marker is.

What kind of oil do I use?

Simple you can use any paintball marker oil like gold cup, or whatever. Dow33? You can use Dow33 on your bolt or to lube your 3-way o-rings, just be sure not to put too much on your 3-way o-rings or it can lead to clogged tubes. I have noticed that most newer paintballers are reluctant to use the proper lube for their products, they tend to use what ever they have laying around the house. It's cool, as long as it works, and no harm can be done right??? I suppose so... what's the point in having the manufacturer suggest lube to use in the first place. Try not to be so ignorant, lube is very inexpensive, go out and buy the right stuff you lazy bums!:rolleyes:

How do I lube my Autococker?

Your going to want to take out your bolt, pull out that pin on the back block, and your pull your bolt out. Lube up those o-rings on your bolt, a single drop on each o-ring should do it nicely *If you have a delrin bolt, you do not need to lube the bolt! Adding oil to a delring bolt can in fact cause it to swell up. Next you are going to want to lube up your internals this is simple. Just add a few drops of oil into your bottom line adapter (4 or 5 drops will do just fine) Next you'll want to take off your barrel, gas up your marker, and cycle your cocker maybe about 20-30 shots or so, this will cycle the oil through the internals including the valve & cup seal, through the front block and into your pneumatics. Instead of taking off your barrel, some people just like to take out their cocking rod, and cycle their marker. To properly lube up your 3-way, if you haven't put oil into your bottom line adapter yet, would be to put a few drops of oil in the front of your 3-way, on the exhaust ports, now pull the trigger (without the marker gassed up) that way the exhaust ports wont vent out air blowing out the oil before they have had a chance to touch the o-rings in the 3-way.

Do cockers have better range then other guns?

No, they shoot just as far as any other marker *wink wink*. The only difference is that cockers tend to have a much tighter shot grouping at those distances often making it seem like they shoot farther. To obtain maximum accuracy, having a consistent regulator, shooting n2/compressed air, and having a good paint to barrel match all play it's part.*

Should I buy a custom cocker or a stock WGP?

Custom cockers obviously look much better, they already come with aftermarket parts and therefore perform much better, and they are more expensive. The beauty of buying a stock cocker is that every penny you spend on upgrading it is worth it, and will yield you an improvment in performance that justifies the money you pay for it. Upgrading an already upgraded cocker is a waste of money if you are on a budget, and it's something that you should consider if you are on a budget. It's not pointless to upgrade a custom cocker if it needs to be upgraded, it's just that you could have spent less money on a cheaper cocker, getting the upgrades that you want and not waste money on parts that you dont need. If your going to spend money on a lot of upgrades your better off getting a stock cocker, or building your own custom cocker. Just something to think about especially if you are on a budget, but for those who do have the money to spend... why not?

Stock WGP Cockers out of the box?

WGP does it's best to ensure that every autococker that leaves the WGP warehouse is pre timed, and in proper working order. From time to time, some people have been unlucky and gotten miss timed markers. It happens but it is rare, and that shouldn't be something that changes your mind about getting one. Cockers are cool, but they are not worth getting if you are not willing to put in the time to learn it. What will you have to buy? Most likely you will have to buy a bottom line w/fittings, and a hopper (12vt revolution or better is recommended) put some paint in that hopper, attach your air source and your ready to get down to business.

Stock WGP Cocker recommended upgrades!

A new barrel is always a good thing to look into getting. The stock cocker barrel is not great at all, getting a new barrel will improve accuracy. A new trigger frame, it can be a sliding frame or a hinge trigger frame... it don't matter just get one. The stock cocker frame is not very durable, and the chances are pretty good that the stock trigger will eventually crack or break especially under the stress of a large heavy tank, or everyday wear and tear. Switching from co2 to a high pressure air system will improve accuracy (shot to shot consistency) and it's a lot healthier for your marker period. And lastly a good agitating hopper, at least a 12vt revolution or better.

[Silent Knight]

Autococker FAQ Pt. 2

What Kind of Bolt Should I get?

The biggest advantage that an aftermarket bolt can provide you is increased air flow. This is essential for low pressure autocockers, and using that reasoning... A lot of people agree when I say that a bolt should be upgraded when you are going the route of LP. Otherwise you really dont see any extreme benefits with an aftermarket bolt. Venturi bolts simply tend do distribute pressure evenly on a paintball, although the theory is interesting, it isn't quite as effective as it should be. Venturi bolts actually restrict air flow, and are not ideal for LP cockers. If you are not going LP, then getting a venturi bolt really isn't a big deal but if you are, then you'll want to get a high flowing bolt, so that means none of the venturi junk.

There are several aftermarket bolts that are great for low pressure; AKA's Lightning bolt, Shocktech's SuperFly, Dezigns Eralyte Open Face Bolt are a few good ones.

What's the difference between a swing trigger, & a hinge trigger? should I get one?

Surprise! They are the same thing, both terms are different ways of describing them. If your asking if you should get one or not, that is something that you will have to figure out on your own. Everyone knows that it takes some getting used to in order to really lay some paint using a sliding trigger. With the introduction of the hinge/swing trigger, autococker users have an easier time shooting their autocockers. How comfortable you are with a hinge trigger can only be answered by yourself. The majority of people out there would say it's much easier to get used to then the traditional slider.

How do I set up my hinge trigger?

First thing you should note is the the hinge triggers push the 3-way shaft as opposed to pulling it like the traditional sliding triggers. With this note, just keep in mind that they operate backwards. First thing you are going to want to do is slap on the new trigger frame to the body. Now you are going to want to switch the position of your hoses on your 3-way. The hoses going to the ram must be reversed (front to back, and back to front) *with the exception of 3-ways like the bomb, or the PMP. Now your going to want to set you firing point as early in the trigger pull as possible but not so early that the sear will not catch. After that you can work on the 3-way. Just adjust the 3-way like you would on any other cocker, with the recocking point taking place after the firing point. What you thought I was going to have some tips and tricks for you? Nope... not from me. Timing is sort of an art, it's something that you develop over time and from repetition. Eventually you'll get better at it every time you have to do it, and it'll be well worth the experience.

I have a hinge trigger but my pull is not short?

It's not the trigger frames fault! All hinge triggers on the market today come with trigger stops to shorter your overall trigger pull after timing has been taken care of. Keep in mind that your trigger pull is determined by your own (or your shop's cocker tech's) timing ability. It doesn't stop there, if you want a short trigger pull you must also have a good 3-way with a short switch length. So in the end your trigger pull is a result of whether or not your trigger frame has a trigger stop, if you are using a 3-way with a short switch length, and lastly you or your local shop's timing ability.

How to adjust stock WGP inline reg?

To gain access to the pressure adjustment screw you must take off your fitting going into the bottom of the reg, and that is all you need to do, you do not need to unscrew the bottom half of the reg, it's a waste of time. Simply take off the fitting, and you will be able to see the adjustment screw. screwing in on the stock WGP inline regulator decreases output pressure, while screwing out (unscrewing) increases output pressure. WGP claims every 1/4 turn to be about 60psi

How do I properly set up my pneumatic regulator?

Turn your knob all the way out on your LPR, slowly turn the knob inwards (clockwise) increasing the bolt pressure just enough so that your marker begins to cycle reliably. Rip off a few shots as fast as you can to make sure that it's not skipping any shots. Turn the knob 1/8th to 1/4 more in the clockwise direction and leave it there. adjusting your LPR this way ensures that your marker is getting enough pressure to recock reliably, and that is all the pressure the LPR needs. the advantage of an adjustable LPR is just that... it's adjustable, and that allows for fine tuning of your cocking pressure. The amount of cocking pressure that your autococker requires can be changed by changing out the proper internals, and adjusting the LPR accordingly. Otherwise, a LPR alone will not allow you to drop your cocking pressure, cocking pressure is dependent on more factors other then the LPR alone... like a said a few sentences ago, it's just a tool used for fine tuning.

How can I adjust my velocity?

The velocity is adjusted via the velocity adjuster in the back of the marker. To adjust the velocity you need to remove the cocking rod by unscrewing it (counter clockwise) With the cocking rod removed, stick the allen key (which came with your cocker, 3/16 allen wrench) through the back of your autococker (where you just removed the cocking rod) turning clockwise increases velocity, while turning counter clockwise decreases it. *do not adjust your velocity via inline regulator!

Someone said that I should take apart my cocker to learn about it?

Don't! would take your engine on your car apart to figure out how it works? do you think taking the engine apart will tell you how the car works? Not really, no. Only more confusion can be gained from this. It's best to do your homework first before you try to take on any challenges. At least that way you will have some sort of an idea of what goes on, it'll be a lot easier to understand things that way. I do not recommend taking your autococker apart, the saying "if it's not fixed, leave it alone" has been spoken for a reason. If you feel up to the task, then by all mean go for it. But if you come up on something you don't understand... you will know why.

How can I build a custom cocker?

If you asking this question, perhaps you shouldn't really be doing it.

What is the BEST "XXXX" upgrade?

Can we all agree on one product being the best on the autococker? I highly doubt it. What might be best in one persons eyes might be the worst in another's. We can all agree that what ever the price may be, what ever it may look like, the best product is one that is most effective at doing what it's meant or designed to do. It's hard to get a good idea of what products are good, and what are not especially when gathering info online. Often times it's always good to consider who the info you are asking for comes from? Often times, people will simply repeat what others say just to go along with the rest of the crowd. It's a good idea to take an interest in what seems to be popular, and do your research first before you decide to upgrade.

"THERE IS NO BEST, BEST IS AN ARGUABLE OPINION,THE ONLY BEST IS WHAT YOU CHOOSE BASED ON PERSONAL PREFERENCE, COST AND FUNCTION" -Splatterpunx

How can I sweetspot my inline regulator?

I often see a lot of people adjusting their stock inline regulators to fake themselves out into thinking that "ohh now i have a low pressure cocker" wrong! in the end people cant figure out why they're cockers are sucking gas or have a low velocity or whatever. Sweetspotting your inline regulator correctly sets up your autococker's operating pressure to be balanced with your given spring tension. This is the point at which you will see best performance from your cocker. Remember sweetspotting is just one part of the equation, there are other areas on the cocker that have to be set correctly to have a perfectly tuned cocker.

http://www.moodypaintball.com/vantrepes/pages/regs.htm

Low Output HPA tanks work well on an autococker?

I do not recommend running your autococker off of a low output tank. it's always best to run your cocker using a 800psi preset but not 450? those low output tanks are much too low for your autococker to function correctly. Your cocker comes from the factory running at about 400psi, using the low output tank will starve your inline marker, and you will see drop off. Unless you have a cocker that is ultra low pressure do not use a low output HPA tank.

How Low can my stock cocker's operating pressure go?

This is a common question i see all the time. Often this comes from newbies with only one thing on their mind. How low can i go? One thing I would like to point out is that it's very much possible to set your cocker up to run a low operating pressure. However the real question is whether or not that operating pressure is best for optimum performance out of your marker given your setup. If you ever expect to extract the best, most of the performance lies buried in tuning, NOT BRAGGING RIGHTS. Tuning is Key!

[Silent Knight]

this was taken from the WGP website, it's a new picture of a stock autococker and it's internals. Perhaps it would have been better if there was a break down of the inline reg's internals but, here is something new for you folks. For an even larger image there is one @ the WGP site.

[Silent Knight]

special thanks to vantrepes, this image was taken from the AIR powered website. THis should help a lot

http://www.air-powered.com/images/cockerdiagram2.jpg

[Silent Knight]

If you guys haven't been to the COG recently, Kevin (owner) has added a new killer feature to their webiste. It's an interactive diagram of the cocker, and you can point and click on just about any part of the diagram, and it'll tell you all about the parts of an autococker. If you are new or old, you should check it out... very cool


Interactive Autococker Diagram (http://www.thecog.bizland.com/diagram.html)

great job on this one COG

[Silent Knight]

New Autococker Owner Feeback

Are you a new Autococker Owner, or a player looking to upgrade to a new autococker. I've started a thread where new autococker owners can tell their tale of first time autococker experiences (this does not include just shooting one) these are from players who actually own cockers.

have a look and maybe this will help your decision...

http://www.pbreview.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69248&pagenumber=2

[Silent Knight]

PT Flyer's System X (hinge) Trigger mod!

Just a little something that you system x hinge trigger owners should take a look at. Thanks to PT Flyer for putting up some pictures to go along with his explanation. *This mod will also work for WGP hinge triggers.

PT Flyer's System X (hinge) Trigger mod!



http://www.pbreview.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79369





.

[Silent Knight]

Front Block Gauge Install




the people have spoken. Several parts you will need for the install. *These instructions are for the installation of a gauge using a 90* elbow.

A gauge (I recommend something easy to read)
90* Elbow (1/8th NPT Threading)
Teflon Tape
3/16 Allen Wrench
12pt 1/4" Socket & Rachet
A lighter

First you are going to want to remove that screw located under the front block. Often It's loctited on there, or perhaps cemented on there... Anyhow you are going to want to take a lighter and heat up the screw under the front block, this will heat up the loctite to a liquid state making it easier to free the screw from the front block. After ample heating take your 3/16" allen wrench and your going to have to put muscle into it, and loosen that screw from the front block. *If you have doubt about doing this part please get with your local proshop or someone who has done the mod. It's very easy to bend allen keys or strip the screw if your not doing things right.

next, we remove the trigger frame, the inline regulator. Your 90* elbow probably doesn't have enough clearance to screw onto the front block, the vertical adapter (asa) is in the way right? guess what, were going to have to remove the vertical adapter. *refer to next image

[Silent Knight]

Front Block Gauge Install (contined)

now we have to remove that vertical adapter... There are 2 ways to do this... I'm going to show you the easy way. Using the 12pt 1/4" socket you now must look into the asa and you will see the screw that holds the asa to the body. This will have to be loosened. this image shows the screw located in the ASA

[Silent Knight]

Front Block Gauge Install (continued)

look at the next image I've provided. With the screw in the ASA loosened simply carefully slide the ASA down the timing rod towards the back of the marker. *This moves the asa out of the way so you have enough clearance to install the 90* elbow. Some people remove the timing rod and asa totally, but that means you will have to re time the marker. sliding the asa to the side is easier for those who dont know how to time yet.

[Silent Knight]

Front Block Gauge Install (finished)

Now taking the teflon tape apply the tape to the male fitting on the 90* elbow, and on the male fitting of the gauge. Install to your liking, and now we can put everything back together in reverse order.

Gas up your air system, and listen for leaks. No leaks? you now have completed the mod. This gauge will your cocker's operating pressure (inline regulator's regulated pressure)

If you think about my install instructions you really dont need to remove the trigger frame, although I suggested doing to make it easier when you slide the asa down the timing rod (i've seen people bend rods and it's not too uncommon)

enjoy

[Silent Knight]

STO Ram Rebuild

Parts:

Lighter
Adjustable wrench

Do you have a blown STO Ram? no problem you dont have to go ahead and spend the extra dollar to buy an entirly new ram, the STO ram is rebuildable (so is the stock WGP brass ram)

Remove the Ram from the front block by disconnecting the proper hoses first. Using a wrench remove the ram from the front block (dont forget to take off the back block) The entire ram assembly, and pump arm will pull out of the front block. At this point it's up to you if you want to remove the pump arm. The rebuild can be done with the pump arm still attached to the ram's shaft.

Taking the lighter you will have to hold the flame up to the back of the STO Ram. Look at the picture provided and you will see what part of the ram unscrews from the Ram body. Those threads is where the loctite is located and is where you need to heat up. When it's ready sometimes it's easy to seperate the ram by using your hands (caution, the parts my be hot!) or you can use the wrench.

[Silent Knight]

STO Ram Rebuild

This next picture indicates the internals of the Ram, notice you are going to want to inspect the o-ring (blue) if it's cut, or broken replace it.

[Flanders]

not for gauge install, 45 degree elbow looks nifty u can have it pointing forward, hehehe

also, new info on different things

first off, how to installl a new front block
after hereing some comlaints as to how to do this i though id share my wisdom

starting from the point of an already removed block, this is just install, not removal (note this is not for lpr center blocks, in witch there is no front block screws)
1) u should have 2 orings, the first one goes on the larg front block screw inser the screw into its hole on the front block, then put on the second oring, and screw in the screw into the gun, there by atatching the block, (make shure that the wholes for the different nuematic parts are in the right spots)
2) install the 3 way and atach it to the timing rod and trigger linkage
3) instal the lpr (i like using 2 wraps of tephlon)
4) install ram, make shure there is proper gap in between back block and body
5) next atatch hoses as they should be (varies between trigger types and 3 way design)
6) gas up gun and time every thing, ur set

hope this helps

[Flanders]

tank selection for ur cocker

ok been getting/seeing this alot recently

first asses ur output pressure of ur cocker (best acheived with a gauge on ur reg or under ur front block)

asses ur cash limit, if u have under say 300 to spend go for a preset, if u got more look around for adjustable

strapped for cash

if ur reading under 200, first off good for u, i wish i was, second this meens u can usually run a 450psi preset output tank such as crossfire.
if ur readding above 200, best go for 850 (what i use) it's no biggy if u end up going under 200 psi, u can still use the tank.

so ur parents are paying huh

ok well u got cash for an adjustable tank, now if ur running a stock cocker or still using stock reg and are thinking of getting a better one, get a nice gas through and a maxflow tank. why a maxflow over a more expensive tank, maxflows are ment to run as a solo reg. now if u got a nice reg and u want perfectly and stable consistancy, u got a few options, if u got around 500 bucks id say go for an apoc or conquest tanks, very light very adjustable, if ur not as wealthy, look into an armageddon, like the apoc, but a lil heavier, nitro duck makes a good tank too.

ok now the important thing too look for is spring adjustability some tanks come in 2 or 3 models, some have really lp springs that are ment to run under 150 psi, avoid these, ur looking for one that runs in between 250 and like 600 psi, u want one that for shore can go over 600 psi but can go under, like lower to 450 (depending on pressure output, if u run unde look for a tank that can run under 500 to 450 psi for good adjustably)

well now u got ur tank's assessed go o the air forum to find which brand of tank is best for u

[Blizzardx15x]

I was reading one of the early posts and it said not to adjust the veolicty of your cocker with the inline reg only the velocity adjuster. Is this true? I just bought an outkast that has the ergo inline reg. should I use the rear velocity adjuster or the ergo reg to adjust the veloicty?

[vantrepes]

It all depends on the springs and the valve. If your gun is basicly stock, then you will want to use the IVG to control the velocity. Using the reg will destroy your consistancy at the chrono.
On guns with after market parts, suck as a properly sprung Tornado valve, adjusting spring pressure won't be able to effect the velocity much, so air pressure must be used.
Read this:How to Set a Reg. (http://www.moodypaintball.com/vantrepes/pages/regs.htm) to get the most out of the reg, then use the IVG to control your velocity.

[bobalis]

How do you adjust the velocity for an all stock 2k1 right feed cocker?

[vantrepes]

Remove cocking rod.
Insert 3/16" hex wrench.
Turn clockwise to increase the velocity, counter-clockwise to decrease velocity.
Re-install cocking rod, make sure it's tight.
Done.

[Shoe3]

do u need to time ur cocker when replacing lprs?

[vantrepes]

You won't have to time the gun unless you replace one of the following:
Trigger Plate
Sear
Hammer
Hammer Lug
Grip Frame (slide or swing, doesn't matter, the timing will have to be tweaked)
Timing Rod
Valve (you have to pull the hammer to get to it)
Three way
Cocking Rod
Pump Arm

LPR and inline regs will have to be adjusted, but the timing won't be effected.

[Flanders]

ok well first thing's first, asses what u need and what ur budget is, a new frame will cost u ne where from 50 -550 bucks

if u have a stock cocker, ur used to that slider frame, which by all means sucks, it's not metal it can break in half, doesn't feel to great either. if u like sliders (like me) one of ur best bets especially for the price is a benchmark, i think they are great frames, dye and kapp frames are gret too, but if u get a kapp frame, ull need to get panel grips wraps won't work. Ans quickfire is a benchmark frame with an ans plate and sear, makes for a nice pull but nothing that couldn't be done with a roller sear. there ate other frames and frames will change feeling from gun to gun, especially sliders

Now if u can't quite get that slider going u want somethign mroe like a bichen spyder trigger, something like that ull want a hinge. Now econo hinge would be ur shocktech not that atractive but not horrible either. the worr hinge and the system x hinge's are great, especially when removing the clip spring (very simple mod) the eclipse balde and the reflex are both quite nice pulls. Now the dye hinge is well special, the double finger dye hinge is a downward pull, alot of people don't like it off the bat but it aint bad at all. u get used to it, now dye also has a single finger hinge too, pretty nifty nice lil pull

ok so u can't shoot ur cocker worth beans, but u want to keep it, and u hapen to have a few hundred bucks in ur pocket. Here are ur options. u dun have too much cash, get one of the new eclipse eblade frames, very nice but u do ur own install, including electro nuemqatic 3 way and ace if u so wish (requires drilling and tapping, dun do it with a lain ol drill or dremil.) it's new and pretty nice, has an lcd in the bacl of the frame, and seems to look like it has a nice pull. or u could get a race frame. Very similer but u ship it off for professional install by racegun or free flow or compulsive pb a few other places. it's gonna be like 500 or so. enuemtaic 3 way, and frame one of the best frames around so u get a good deal. Next is the hyper frame from center flag, it's about 550 u send in ur gun they install the frame an new timing rod (no new 3 way) after they send it back, if u feel like u cna handal a mechanical trigger u can switch it off in about 15 minuets (if ur good at timing) and ur ready to go. now if u want full out e nuematics, u can go with sandridge. It requires sending it to them (they are now AAA paintball btw) they will do oen of 2 things, both require them completey upgrading ur front nues including new fittins new 3 way new front block. then with the trigger u can have a bunch of the electronics i the trig adn in a box under the frame or you can pay some more and have every thing inframe. now there is one last option that i and many other dont' recomend, but if u have very little cash it's the cheapest, it's a self install called the pgi firestorm, i dun quite get how it works, but it has a frame a bolt and a front block

now after reading this i hope you have a better idea of what to get

[I_hav_a_cocker7]

http://www.wildlion.edikos.com/ACTD.html
by Mike Aberle

[willybob]

One of the most commonly asked questios- Which hoses go where when I put on my hinge?
Remember- Hinge=front to front back to back. (whichever barbs ar closes go together)

[vantrepes]

Stock three way with two o-rings: Front barb of the ram to the back barb of the three way. Back barb of the ram to the front barb of the three way

Hinge: Front barb of the ram to the front barb of the three way, back barb of the ram to the back barb of the three way.

Bomb, DYE, and any other three way with three o-rings: same as a hinge.

Bomb type three way AND a hinge: same as stock

[Flanders]

What is suction timing?

well to start off, when a closed bolt gun fires, a vacume is formed momentarily infront of the bolt after all the air is blown out, once the air cleares the porting the vacume will be filled with air.

suction timing is timing your firing point and the point where your bolt move back pst the breach in the right way that the vacume is filled not from the barrel, but from the feed tube. when the bolt moves back beyond the breach faster then the air from the porting can get to the major part of the vacume, air is sucked from the feed tube pulling a ball down.

and now you know

[evil_twinkie]

okay sorry if this had already been asked but i didn't see it...

what r the symtoms of the cocker being untimed,
like lobbs our of the barrel, inaccurate ect...
thx in advance
________________________________________________
my course --------> www.superiorfirepower.com

2k2 wgp v/f BLUE booya :agree:
clear 12 v revy
Smart Parts Anti siphen 20 oz
smart parts burst jersey
DYE invision goggles
JT gloves

Originally posted by -=ReD-hAzE=-

no... cockers are the only things that get gnomes... unless of course you want those homosexual transexual hooker gnomes... that go for any gun... including the samuri...

[TrunksPT]

Leaky 3-way, burping, massive blow back, not cocking, lug not catching during rapid fire... the list continues. These are major indicator of timing problems

[dawgs712]

Originally posted by Flanders
What is suction timing?

well to start off, when a closed bolt gun fires, a vacume is formed momentarily infront of the bolt after all the air is blown out, once the air cleares the porting the vacume will be filled with air.

suction timing is timing your firing point and the point where your bolt move back pst the breach in the right way that the vacume is filled not from the barrel, but from the feed tube. when the bolt moves back beyond the breach faster then the air from the porting can get to the major part of the vacume, air is sucked from the feed tube pulling a ball down.

and now you know

how do u acomplish the suction timing though. is it when your firing opint and your recocking point are very close, or very far, or 1 mm away? how do u do it

[Silencer.1]

It must be timed very close.

[dawgs712]

ok gochta, very close gets suction timing, but overlapping leads to lots of blowbakc right?

[cookiemoster16]

CARBON DIOXIDE

HERE IS A GUIDE FOR CO2 SHOTS PER OZ. AT 80º F.

65 TO 70 SHOTS PER OUNCE
7oz TANK = 466 SHOTS
9oz TANK = 600 SHOTS
12oz TANK = 800 SHOTS
20oz TANK = 1333 SHOTS


COMPRESSED AIR

HERE IS A GUIDE FOR HPA SHOTS PER CUBIC INCH.

3000psi 4500psi
10 SHOTS PER ci. 15 SHOTS PER ci.
47ci = 550 SHOTS 68ci = 1050 SHOTS
68ci = 7200 SHOTS 88ci = 1400 SHOTS
88ci = 900 SHOTS 114ci = 1750 SHOTS
114ci = 1140 SHOTS


I modded the Compressed Air to match more precisely the stock 2k2 shots.

[nole16k]

Originally posted by levi333
First off, im new to cockers, gonna get one soon.

it was said in this thread that you had to re-time when you remove the cocking rod, but you have to remove it to adjust the velocity? does that mean that you have to retime after you adjust the velocity?
i doubt it would be that way, but i want to get it straight.

thanks, Levi You will not have to re-time after you adjust the velocity, but you might have to turn the LPR pressure up a little.

[FruitBiscuit]

That's just a myth. I haven't heard of it before until you brought it up, tho. Once you have the timing where YOU want it, You shouldn't mess w/ it, and the people at WGP know that and wouldn't make thier gun that frustrating. That's a good question, tho, I would definitely have reconsidered getting a ccoker if u had to retime every time u wanted to adjust ur velocity.

[amzng_spyderman]

the people have spoken, this needs to be updated! please put the question in quotes, then answer below. example:
Is a spring kit worth the money? Which one should I get?
for $5-$8 a spring kit is definitely worth the money. it can increase your air efficiency if set up correctly (instructions here (http://www.pbreview.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=173648)) and lower your cocking pressure (pinch paint instead of chop it). most kits are pretty much the same. maddman and freeflow are both pretty good kits.

[amzng_spyderman]

i thought you guys were going to help fix this thing up :(

[firekow]

Is it safe for me to play without using a shroud (or the big black plastic thingy if you don't know what I'm talking about)?

Yes. It's perfectly fine, it just means that if you're hit in the pneus, you'll have a bit more to clean. A 3-way hose might pop off, but that can easily by popped right back on. There's a chance paint could find its way into your pneus though, and that would mean some cleaning, so you decide. There's always the possibility of cutting a barrel condom to fit your pneus, and most think this looks better than the stock plastic thing.


Now, I have a question for all of you. What are top hats? Unless I'm mistaken, they help keep the 3-way hoses on. Do they come stock? If not, where can I get them?

Thanks.

[nole16k]

Originally posted by firekow
Now, I have a question for all of you. What are top hats? Unless I'm mistaken, they help keep the 3-way hoses on. Do they come stock? If not, where can I get them?

Thanks. Top hats are the things at the end (or beginning, whichever standpoint you are using) of the hoses that secure the hoses onto the 3-way and/or the ram or LPR. They come stock on WGP Autocockers, but I'm not sure about others. You can get them here (http://www.paintballgateway.com/kapautclearh.html). In this picture, the arrows are pointing to the top hats:

http://www.angelfire.com/ga4/nole16k/top_hats.jpg

[firekow]

What's a "focker"?

A "focker" is any autococker not built by WGP, unless I'm mistaken. By no means are they all bad markers, they just aren't made by WGP, and can't be called autocockers. Some are good, and some are amazingly bad.

close. fockers are closed bolt semi-autos that don't use bodies made by wgp. - spyderman

[amzng_spyderman]

I can't decide which one to get e-blade or worrblade?? What is the difference between the two?? Which one is better??
the worr blade comes with a delrin bolt w/ o-rings and a hammer with nyloc screws. it also has a grooved trigger, larger trigger guard, and dovetail on the grip. the e-blade has a blade style trigger and no bolt, hammer, or dovetail. their internals and performance are identical. it basically comes down to which trigger and/or accessories you want.

[firekow]

Can I use CO2 with my Eblade / Worrblade?

It's not reccomended, E-blade solenoids don't like CO2. They can freeze, and that's on the bad side of things. Would this be any different if you were running, say, a good CO2 regulator, such as a palmer stabilizer or max flow?

(Someone else plz field the second question :P)

[spydermanxt]

hey...check out http://www.cockertech.cjb.net and watch the timing video...its a lot easier to follow than just directions

[dropkickmurphys]

how exactly does my timing come off. i dont know but today i short stroked the i cleaned the bolt. after that my hammer was getting stuck every time fired. has my cocker become untimed or what. i figure out my bolt was upside down but i didnt have enough air to see if it worked fine

[Kylejv1505]

Im new to autocockers and i was justwondering,
is an autococker timed and then it just randomly becomes untimed, or does it gradually become untimed?
thanks in advance for your help

[amzng_spyderman]

after a period of use, the set screws on the coupler and the lug begin to move on their own. after a while, this can cause the cocker to come out of time.

[VeNoM]

Luckily companies are now making hammers with nylock threads so the lug will not slip as easily... I know KAPP, Professional and WGP (worrblade) have made hammers with these installed...

[amzng_spyderman]

as has jackal. he even put in a second nyloc set screw to prevent the cocking rod from unscrewing itself so easily :tup: