Autococker or tricked spyder

[NICKYB]

Im so torn between an autococker or a totally tricked spyder. My choices are between an autococker with boomie or a spyder with revvie, boomie, dye stickies, and another 150 to spend on it. should i get the cocker with barrel or the upgradesd spyder plus extra money for more upgrades. And i really want an accurate gun, thats the main thing. ACCURACY

[TLplus84]

go with the cocker hands down. THe cocker has so much more potential..and even though you wont' have alot of money to start off with, a cocker with a boomer is very accurate..and you can slowly upgrade to make it crazy nice..

[antiramie]

Ditto what TLplus said.

[Hsuve]

Originally posted by TLplus84
go with the cocker hands down. THe cocker has so much more potential..and even though you wont' have alot of money to start off with, a cocker with a boomer is very accurate..and you can slowly upgrade to make it crazy nice..

Potential? All the guy asked for was accuracy. :) Customizing, yes, there's all that pneumatic stuff for the 'Cocker. Spyders also have a lot of potential, you could get milling, anodizing, all that fancy crap you could do to a 'Cocker as well. I don't think 'Cockers can have electronic grip frames though, they need different pneumatic parts like on an F-5. Also, don't think you could have an Autococker with an air assist, MIGHT be possible, but I already know that air assists are possible on Spyders. I would DEFINITELY go with the Spyder, cash, and those upgrades. Why? Even if you had one of the most tricked Freeflow 'Cockers, what would be the point of it if you couldn't shoot fast? Don't think he mentioned getting a Revolution for his 'Cocker if that's what he's getting. :) A Spyder will be just as accurate with the DYE Boomstick, because 'Cockers are closed bolt action paintball guns, that does not mean they can shoot further, and more accurately. All it means is that it shoots differently. For $150, you could already make your Spyder LP. If you want a list, I'll type it out the next time I reply.

[Jordan]

Spyder
Boomstick
12v Revvy
Elcd Frame
Dropforward and save for a nitro

plus milling and stuff like what Hsuve said

[TLplus84]

A spyder will only take you so far. A cocker has endless possibilities. A cocker with a boomstick i think will be more accurate and a Spyder with a boomstick, new bolt, reg, etc. etc. because of the fact that the cocker has better consistancy. Also, even if you do not have the money right now, you can trick the cocker out slowly. In the long run the cocker is a better investment. Like i sed, the spyder will only take you so far. WHat you realize is that you end up spending like a whole crapload of money on your spyder just to get it up to par with like a cocker with maybe $100 worth of upgrades...I'm guilty of it myself...

[Spyder_Kid]

it seems to me if u want to go a step further, trick out the spyder....save your money and eventually u can get an EM1 and you will be able to use most of your upgrades on the EM1

[TLplus84]

why get the EM1 when you can get a better gun for cheaper? hehe i'm reffering to the Imp.

[Hsuve]

Well, I'd have to say that a Spyder has endless possibilities. Just take a look at the picture thread in PBD, there's so many different guns, their set-ups are all different. If those aren't different possibilities, I don't know what is. Well, a 'Cockers consistency is based on it's use of the WGP regulator, that's why it's more consistent than stock Spyders. However, if you add a regulator onto a Spyder, it too will be very consistent. I know a guy with a Vigilante on his Spyder and his readings of his velocity is +/- 5fps from what he has to set it at. Why are 'Cockers a better investment? Because of resale value? If your gun shoots great (mine does :D), why sell it? A 'Cocker has an end too, just slightly farther than a Spyder. By the way, just because you can upgrade your gun forever does not make it "the best." Look at the Angel, there's barrels, bolts, valves, volumizers, some more fun stuff, and that's about it. Angels can't really be customized quite as much as 'Cockers or Spyders, but EVERYBODY wants one. Why? Because it shoots great, that's why. Tell me why a 'Cocker is better than a Spyder. And by talking about a Spyder being on the level as 'Cockers, what kind of 'Cockers? Just a message to everybody: if you go and buy this "high end" gun everytime someone says "Nice gun... But... Well... Eh... It's just not like a (name of gun here)..." you'll be up to an Angel, back to a 'Cocker, over to an E-Mag, and the changing of guns will go on forever.

[Spyder_Kid]

wouldnt it be nice to get an Imp...if i only had a job i could get one...looks like ill just keep my mouth shut now...cuz TL u the man! lol

[Hsuve]

Yeah, I'd give the EM-1 more time, there's probably still some bugs in it. It's a nice gun through. Actually, I don't think many Spyder parts will fit on an EM-1 at all, the EM-1 is a blowforward while the Spyder a blowback.

[TLplus84]

hrmm..Hsuve..i think you won this argument...:P:D You have good points, but honestly, if you were to choose between a Spyder with a reg and boomstick, or a cocker with the identical reg and boomstick, which would you choose?

[Hsuve]

With only that, I'd still go for the Spyder. I know it sounds pretty stupid to you, but here's why:
1. 'Cockers will chop balls BAD without a Revolution loader, and HP Spyders use relatively soft main springs, thus if a ball comes half way down, you'll pinch it but not cut it
2. I'm just used to the Spyder trigger, I like the way it pivots instead of sliding, personally, I've used several 'Cockers and have shortstroked 'em all. I'm not saying their bad, I'm saying I just can't use a 'Cocker
3. I'm a tinkerer but yet have no idea how pneumatics or timing works, Spyders are simple :)

[july_favre]

a stock cocker is worth getting the best spyder anyday. Out of the box with a new barrel a cocker will shoot better than any spyder. If you work on the trigger its 100 times better than the spyders and they are making a electronic frame for the cocker. Even if they werent, the electronic frame has a bps cap at 13 as if you could shoot that fast anyways. The pull on my cocker is less than the pull and every spyder ive seen when it has the safety on. Give me $80 and i will give you a trigger pull on a cocker that you can shoot just as fast as an electro frame on a spyder. Pesronally i like the m98 better which I had before and the difference between blowbacks and cockers are night and day. I have never had a problem short stroking a cocker even when i first played with one and theres not art in pulling the trigger.
plus cockers can go way further in upgrading than a spyder. If your spyder shoots well and you like it then thats cool but a cocker is better than a spyder any day.
And a note on everyone wanted angels- they are all hype and there are better electros out there than angels that cost hundreds less.
anyways, get a stock cocker and you can use that forever even when your playing the sc ironmen for the championship, and you could do that with a spyder too if you are neo from the matrix.
Some people get too caught up in "my gun pride" and saying theres can be just as good. If that was true you would see people running around with spyders, m-98s and stingrays in pro level tourements and those componies would build them their own models for free for them to use them. Spyders are cool but cockers are better.

[ptflyer]

hmmmm......I say get either..but for me ...I wqould go with the spyder first.....and get a cocker later.....most people I know who have a cocker....have some kind of back up..(Usallly a spyder)


but the people who have spyders..don't seem to need a back up....

this way if your cocker screws up on game day....you have your spyder to keep you in the game....or you can just spend the next two games screwing with your cocker....your choice


JMO.....when I finally do get my cocker.I'll still keep my OL' RELIABLE.....SPYDER,,

[Hsuve]

july_favre (hope thats your name): There is no way in hell that a STOCK 'Cocker is better than say... The G3PB Spyder. For now, I'd say that they've got the best Spyder. I think you were exaggerating a bit too much. A LP with a Boomstick will definitely shoot better than a 'Cocker. If anybody's got "gun pride," it's 'Cocker owners. They say that their closed bolt guns will shoot farther?!? That's easily called one thing, B.S. Also, in the beginning where you say that it'll shoot better, define "better." In science class, my teacher would consider "better" as a vague description and could not be used as a problem statement of any kind. Uh... What do you mean by 100 times better? TLplus84 can get his pull down to 3mm, I personally don't believe that, but I know of people that've gotten their pull down to 1/8". That's measured from the bottem of a double trigger, meaning it's better than a stock 'Cockers pull. Why? Because the 'Cocker is using a single trigger. If I measured from the half point of my double trigger (which would be the bottem of a single trigger if I had one...), it would be under 1/8" for the reason that my trigger pivots. $80 for a trigger job?!? If I had a 'Cocker, I'd get used to it first. $20 for a trigger job is probably as much as I'd pay, but know that I'm a cheapass. :D I doubt that if you did that trigger job that you'd be able to shoot as fast as a Spyder with an electronic frame, because with 'Cockers you gotta be real careful. If you make it too short, you'll shoot and recock at the same time resulting in blowback. I'm sure no tournament players would want that. "Way further"? Again, the word "way" is quite vague, tell me more... You don't need to be Neo to use a Spyder in a tournament, they'll shoot accurately, and consistenty (that is if you have a regulator on it), and fast at that too. By accurate, I mean hitting what you want within 2-3 shots. That wouldn't work if the target is too far away though. Consistently I mean +/-5 to 8FPS.

ptflyer: I AM backing up what I'm saying, what you talkin' 'bout???

[july_favre]

I dont believe that closed bolt is more accurate until I see proof. Im not saying that cocker are the bet in the world Im saying that they are beter than spyders. Cocker owners too are guilty of my gun pride. I am always saying how stupid they are for saying the cocker shouldnt be electro, and we dont need a pivot trigger its fine the way it is. I however dont have a closed mind like those people do. If it was being compared to another tournement gun then it would be a different situation.
A 2001 cocker with a new barrel WILL shoot better than the g3 spyder. Be it closed bolt or not, cockers just shoot more accurate. This is espscially true on the new models with the so parts, new bolt etc. They dont even need to be upgraded unless you want prettier parts or want to go low pressure.
And the &80 isnt for a trigger job, its for parts. I can get a cockers trigger under 3mm with suction timing and no problems whatsoever. If you have a double trigger, guess what, it would the same pull at the top as it is from the bottom. Pivot triggers arent better than a sliding trigger, its mostly preference. I can shoot my cocker just as fast as I can shoot an electro. There is no way that you have to be careful about pulling a trigger on a cocker. With the trigger that short especially it wont be a problem.
As far as it can go 'way" further being vague. It can go all the way. You have the reflex kit, electro kits with eye sensors, electro frame to come out, turn it into a pump and back, A PIVOT TRIGGER, julien fries, you can even make it open bolt.
Everyone that doesnt have a cocker says that they are hard to maintain and you have to spend 4 years at a university learning how to pull the trigger and that scares alot of people from buying them only to find out later that what they hear is all stereotype that isnt true. If you dont know anything about them then dont mess with it. and you will be fine. I have never had a problem with a cocker that wasnt due to me being curious and screwing with it when I didnt know anything about it.
If spyders are tournement material then you should tell everyone this secret so they dont waste hundreds of dollars on electros, cockers, mags, palmers and all the rest.

[MTU_Paintballer]

I have to agree with everyone who said to go with the cocker. Spyders are nice when they are shooting low pressure and everything, but a nice cocker is better any day.

[Intruder]

this could go on for a while...

[Richy_C]

it already has

[chevy123]

I was pretty much in the same position as you were, a few weeks ago. So, I went to the local Paintball store, tried out a WGP 2001 Autococker, it was nice, in fact it kicked ***. Then I tried a tricked out spyder it was nice, it kicked ***, of course not AS good as the cocker. But then I asked myself, how many times a month am i going to use this? Is it really worth the extra money? And i just got the spyder, and im very happy with my decision.

[ptflyer]

Hsuve..I thought I explained my self well.....sorry if I wasn't as "specific" as you would like me to be......but I think what I said...speaks for itself....


Remember....."opinons are like A$$holes ..everybody has one.."

[Dräko]

I made this EXACT decision like 2 months ago. I was like 90% cocker when some friends convinced me to go for the tricked spyer, as of now i am very happy with my decision, stick whith your gun, its a rewarding feeling to trick a gun

[spacer709]

yeah, its fun to trick out blowbacks! blowbacks rule! :)

[blinkpk11]

hey i got an idea, save and buy a bushy/impulse!

[Witt]

What is it with ELCD gri frame?? I think it is kinda stupid. I believe that you should gert the Cocker Definately..Hmm...Spyder Over Cocker...EEHHHH EHHHHH!!

[Hsuve]

Well, if you can't explain why it'll shoot more accurately, don't. It's like trying to explain why Brass Eagle paint is bad without saying that it's lop sided. You're missing the crucial part, the reason. Just sayiing that it's the parts just doesn't work. What does the parts do? No, no. I probably didn't really make sense out of the trigger stuff, sorry if what I mainly said was confusing. I don't believe I said that pivoting triggers are better than sliding triggers. I was merely saying that it's possible to make a Spyder's trigger shorter than an STO's (which is now the stock 'Cocker trigger pulls.). As my opinion, that's good enough. Well, when you shorten the 'Cockers trigger pull, you DO have to be careful. From what I heard, after messing with the trigger you will have to re-time the gun. If the trigger's so short that you have to recock at the same time the gun fires, you will recieve quite a bit of blowback. Also, I never said that 'Cockers take forever to learn how to fix. I'm sure they're simple to clean once you know how it works. Heck, it took me 6 months 'till I figured out how every part in my Spyder works.

[Intruder]

lol, when I firs got my gun, i didn't want to take it apart because I was afraid I'd break it or not know how to put something back in the right place. Now I know my gun like the back of my hand.

[july_favre]

Youve heard that (insert phrase hear). Im not stating this as a put down towards you, put everyone has heard whatever from some guy who doesnt know what they are talking about. I was told to get a stock cocker and learn it before i build my own. after about a month I realized that that guy didnt know much about what he was talking about so i sold my cocker and built my own. Being the first one it takes awhile to get everything down just like everything else but it took about 2 1/2 to put it together and get it shooting. Retiming your gun is almost as simple as adjusting your velocity. If its not firing at the right time then just turn a little screw. If you really screw it up then you have to adjust the timing rod which is a matter of unscrewing one screw and turing the rod. the statement that it shoots better but i dont know why doesnt make the fact that it shoots better not true. how can you tell me that I cant say that If I dont know why when you are saying"Ive heard" but have noe experience yourself.
On the argument that you can make the spyders pull better than the stos pull is true, but it is unfair to state if you do not provide the info that the trigger can be changed to less than half of that pull for free. If you did a simple trigger job you will have a trigger pull as good as just any custom gun out there. Actually if you have it cock right after it fires then you will actually get a cool thing where it creates a vacuum.

I think that its good to think about how mcuh your going to play. If your not going to play that much i would get a low end gun like a spyder, m98 etc. If you ever plan on playing tourneys you will save money buy just getting a tourney marker now cause noone wants to trade down to a lower gun and you wont get anywhere near how much you paid for you gun after you trick it out since most of the time they can get a mag, cocker or electro for that much.

[RedWidow]

There is no way I would buy a cocker as my first gun, I think i woudl have to get used to a simple gun like a spyder. Im so gladd I gotta spyder as my first gun because it teaches me more about paintball guns in general. Im gonna upgrade my spyder as best as I can and play in tournies and eventually i will get a cocker or other gun.

[Intruder]

A tricked spyder would hold up its own in a tourney. A newbie should definately buy a sturdy gun like the m98 or along that lines. Newbies are always the hardest on their guns. :)

[Hsuve]

What did your first sentance mean? Sorry, I've really probably been living under a rock for the past years or so, I'm really not quite familiar with these kinds of expressions. Hmmmmm... Are you saying that I don't know what I've been talking about? Also, I don't believe I said that timing was hard, only that if you make the trigger too short that you'll recieve blowback for the time that it shoots and the time that it recocks is too close together.
Originally posted by july_favre
the statement that it shoots better but i dont know why doesnt make the fact that it shoots better not true. how can you tell me that I cant say that If I dont know why when you are saying"Ive heard" but have noe experience yourself.
Experience of what? Also, you didn't explain why a 'Cocker would shoot better. All you said was that it's parts were better, allowing it to shoot better. Again, define "better." Do you mean accuracy, range, consistency, what? About the trigger job arguement now. The moderator of this forum has info on his trigger job, which he claims can get it down to 3mm. I'd say that's free, as you don't have to pay anything to register onto PBReview.com. Even if you do play often, getting a Spyder, Tippmann, or Piranha isn't a bad idea. They work for tournaments. There was some guy from some team (I think it was Team Rabid something...) at Skyball 2000, he used a Spyder and he didn't have to be Neo from the Matrix to do well. Just because everybody stereotypes blowbacks to be "entry-level" doesn't mean they cannot compete with the big boys. With the proper parts, they'll shoot just as nice. Nice: Accurately, consistently, and not cause too many head aches. :)

[mikek2111987]

id have to agree with TLplus84 all the way,but me myself i would get the spyder and upgrade it.

[Evilcrayonusa]

Personally ide go with the spyder because as its going to state in my signaure you get braggin right when you smoke some one with a spyder. as opposed to when you smoke some one with a cocker people are all big deal. Besides Cockers are ugly and bulkier than a spyder.

[Hsuve]

Well, IMO, 'Cockers are really sweet looking. They're really not all that bulky either, they're actually much more compact than Spyders. A 'Cocker with a 14" Boomstick and a Lapco drop forward is as compact as my Spyder with a 12" Boomstick and a Diamond Labs cradle. That's really a Drop Zone II copy. Also, if you take someone out with a 'Cocker and you used a Spyder, that's not saying much. They're not that far apart in terms of accuracy and such.

[Edited by Hsuve on 03-30-2001 at 10:22 PM]

[july_favre]

Your right a tricked spyder is better.

[Evilcrayonusa]

Thus bulky

[Hsuve]

Originally posted by Evilcrayonusa
Thus bulky

'Cockers aren't really all that wide... If you take a look at their backblocks, you'll see that it's not that wide, and that's about the width of the body throughout. Also, what's with a mad face everytime? Show me a smile, big smile! :D;)

[Jordan]

ok look if i was to hook up a spyder to the max! and hook up a cocker to the max what would be the difference?

i mean how much more accurate can you possibly get? i dont understand why someone would by an angel when you could trick out a spyder to prob. just as accurate. i know theres other stuff such as electro which you can have on a spyder to. on my gun if i had the elcd frame (which i do) and had it tricked as much as i could wouldnt it be just as accurate as an angel? all i care about on my gun is accuracy thats all i really need. if you have the most accurate gun, you wont waste paint, and you wouldnt need electro or n e of that

well i got a lil off topic but whatever ;)

[Evilcrayonusa]

I was refering to cocker w/fore grip / sheald dealie on it (you know the one to cover the pneumatic dealies in the front) as for upgrades thats all a matter of what you do with the gun both have tons of mods. and no mater who you ask there gonna be partial unless they on both guns i guess.

[ajc7755]

I have had a spyder for about a year now and am now just getting to play about once a week. I am also getting into tourneys. I am going thru the same decesion right now, Syder or Cocker. But I have decided to totally trick out my Spyder to LP new barrel, rev loader, and basically everything you can find. I have added up the cost every upgrade right now for the spyder and its around $400 in upgrades. Thats a lot, but its worth it. I have talked to a guy with a cocker that he totally tricked out, he says he likes it, but it requires so much work. He has been using cockers in all his tournaments. When we played him, about every minute he would chop a ball, and have to clean out his barrel. I also thought about getting an electric gun, but paintball isint about having a fully automatic gun and just unloading on everyone else. I take more pride when I can take someone with a electic out with only a few shots. So I say, upgrade the spyder, because you know they will just keep coming out with new upgrades for it because Kingman know what they are doing.

[Evilcrayonusa]

I have to agree with guy above me who said blow backs are looked down on for no reason ive seen many a turny player play with blow backs and they all played like every one else. Please correct me if im wrong but arent cockers blowbacks also?