toothpastedog
09-24-2004, 11:00 PM
Yes, i know there is thread about this already, but it is really jumbled and messy, not to mention spammed up a bit (;)). I think this would be a great sticky subject, but the other thread isn't really sticky suitable; it is long long long... kind of something that would put off the kind of person who would need/want to read it. Here we go:
First off, before you tackle how different things affect cycle speed, you should be familiar with what Internal Weights (http://www.pbreview.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=252026) are all about.
Okay, now, here we go for real:
PART I
The three biggest things that effect cycle speed are (in any paintball gun):
1-Dwell
2-Pressure (I don't care about input this, input that, I am just talking about the pressure the ram/hammer/bolt is being driven/run/operated at)
3-Wieght
Dwell:
-The dwell (http://pbreview.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=224024&perpage=20&pagenumber=1), as you all know, is how long the solenoid redirects the air flow to behind the ram, thus causing it to move forward. For every millisecond the solenoid redirects the air behind the ram, the ram is pushed forward, opening the valve, as well as sealing off the breach. The dwell is independent of every other setting in the gun, and is controlled in millisecond increments. if you have a higher dwell, the pressure doesn't go down or anything, and if you have a higher pressure the dwell does go down or anything (unless you reset it, that is why I say it is independent, it stays the same unless some one changes it; I will get to the lower dwell/higher input/lower solenoid input later).
Force=psi=???
-Did you know something, psi is force. Pound per Square Inch. That is directly translated into force. If the ram in an impulse is run at 35psi, it will drive the hammer at about 35psi (34.somethingpsi) and the hammer will hit the valve with about 35 pounds of force.
Cps=Bps=WRONG
-Cps and Bps are two completely different things. A gun can cycle a million times per second but in reality can only shoot 5bps. The only factor that I will deal with that effect cps rates are how much what ever is being cycled mass is. The bps rate depends on the mass of what ever is being cycled, but it also depends on it what ever is being cycled has to hit something or in other words, the force opposing it; i.e. a paintball, or a valve, or ball detents. In our case with the impulse though, we are only concerned with the opposing force the valve, because it is the greatest (the valve opposes with at least 100psi, the ball detents appose with about 2psi, and the balls oppose with >1psi).
Pressure:
-To get a gun to cycle fast, you need to use at least enough force to move what ever is being cycled (in an impulse's case, a bolt, hammer, ram, and bolt pin). The impulse need at least 20psi to cycle fast (i.e. fast = >13bps). There is a determining factor in the impulse though: since the impulse has a valve, which is opened by the hammer hitting it, you need the hammer to run at least with enough force to open the valve enough to get air to the paintball. In other words, the force that is needed to open the valve is the determining factor because there is like at least 100pounds of opposing force holding the valve closed. The force that drives the ram must be more than 20psi. In most cases, around 65psi works marvelously because that will drive the ram/hammer with enough force to get the valve to open just enough to let a bit of air out. So, with an impulse, since the impulse needs at least 20psi to cycle fast, and since you cannot reliably get the hammer to open the valve unless they are driven with air at about 65psi, the pressure/speed thingy isn't an issue with the impulse because an impulse will only shoot if its ram is being run at 65psi, more than it needs to cycle 20cps.
Internal weight:
-This is an interesting one. Short answer: with the WAS board and a rip valve, you want internals that are very light; 800-1000grains. With any other board and the stock valve you want internals that weight about 1200 (no less that 1100) grains (because the heavier the internals, the more force required to move them, and that makes it easier-with the more force-to open the valve). With any board and a rip valve, internals that weight about 900-1200 grains work great because it takes less force to open the rip valve.
-Other things affect speed, mainly the quality of the parts used, the quality of the lubricant(s) used and tolerances, but we don't really need to worry about them.
Overall:
-I could get an impulse to cycle 40cps, but you still want it to shoot effectively though, right? You can never just say: "I just want my impulse to shoot really fast, because that is all I’m worried about" because when you set up an impulse, you always have to consider velocity and pressures. You always need to think about shoot down. here is my answer to your question though, for the fastest shooting (not just cycling) impulse:
Impulse+
WAS board
RIP valve
Stubby Equalizer bolt
Ti drilled "Tulip" Bolt Pin
Drilled aluminum hammer
silk shot ram
HFV/HFA/VFF/DFF
High Volume Valve Cap
Halo B
HPA tank
Very Well cleaned maxflo, ram, and hammer assembly.
Then, again, make sure everything is always clean with dow33, set your input to 140psi (+/- 5-10psi), set your dwell to the lowest setting while still shooting 280fps or so over the chrono. Oh yes, the impulse with all those parts I just described could cycle about 26bps really. IMO, an lpr would help your cycle time go down (meaning the gun can shoot faster), but you need a good lpr that can sustain 25+ cps/bps. All those parts are not necessary to get you impulse fast as hell. You could have an impulse shooting 20bps with a brass hammer, a voodoo bolt, and the stock bolt pin; those parts are just for the perfect impulse ;).
What lpr’s will be able to sustain high rates of fire (>20bps)?
-Pretty much any lpr out there will work fine, but look for properly working scm's, and i have found sonic lprs to be extremely fast recharging.
Does it make a big difference if I buy a drilled or round ti bolt pin?
-As long as it is made from titanium, it doesn’t matter… those 5 grains aren’t going to matter much…
First off, before you tackle how different things affect cycle speed, you should be familiar with what Internal Weights (http://www.pbreview.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=252026) are all about.
Okay, now, here we go for real:
PART I
The three biggest things that effect cycle speed are (in any paintball gun):
1-Dwell
2-Pressure (I don't care about input this, input that, I am just talking about the pressure the ram/hammer/bolt is being driven/run/operated at)
3-Wieght
Dwell:
-The dwell (http://pbreview.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=224024&perpage=20&pagenumber=1), as you all know, is how long the solenoid redirects the air flow to behind the ram, thus causing it to move forward. For every millisecond the solenoid redirects the air behind the ram, the ram is pushed forward, opening the valve, as well as sealing off the breach. The dwell is independent of every other setting in the gun, and is controlled in millisecond increments. if you have a higher dwell, the pressure doesn't go down or anything, and if you have a higher pressure the dwell does go down or anything (unless you reset it, that is why I say it is independent, it stays the same unless some one changes it; I will get to the lower dwell/higher input/lower solenoid input later).
Force=psi=???
-Did you know something, psi is force. Pound per Square Inch. That is directly translated into force. If the ram in an impulse is run at 35psi, it will drive the hammer at about 35psi (34.somethingpsi) and the hammer will hit the valve with about 35 pounds of force.
Cps=Bps=WRONG
-Cps and Bps are two completely different things. A gun can cycle a million times per second but in reality can only shoot 5bps. The only factor that I will deal with that effect cps rates are how much what ever is being cycled mass is. The bps rate depends on the mass of what ever is being cycled, but it also depends on it what ever is being cycled has to hit something or in other words, the force opposing it; i.e. a paintball, or a valve, or ball detents. In our case with the impulse though, we are only concerned with the opposing force the valve, because it is the greatest (the valve opposes with at least 100psi, the ball detents appose with about 2psi, and the balls oppose with >1psi).
Pressure:
-To get a gun to cycle fast, you need to use at least enough force to move what ever is being cycled (in an impulse's case, a bolt, hammer, ram, and bolt pin). The impulse need at least 20psi to cycle fast (i.e. fast = >13bps). There is a determining factor in the impulse though: since the impulse has a valve, which is opened by the hammer hitting it, you need the hammer to run at least with enough force to open the valve enough to get air to the paintball. In other words, the force that is needed to open the valve is the determining factor because there is like at least 100pounds of opposing force holding the valve closed. The force that drives the ram must be more than 20psi. In most cases, around 65psi works marvelously because that will drive the ram/hammer with enough force to get the valve to open just enough to let a bit of air out. So, with an impulse, since the impulse needs at least 20psi to cycle fast, and since you cannot reliably get the hammer to open the valve unless they are driven with air at about 65psi, the pressure/speed thingy isn't an issue with the impulse because an impulse will only shoot if its ram is being run at 65psi, more than it needs to cycle 20cps.
Internal weight:
-This is an interesting one. Short answer: with the WAS board and a rip valve, you want internals that are very light; 800-1000grains. With any other board and the stock valve you want internals that weight about 1200 (no less that 1100) grains (because the heavier the internals, the more force required to move them, and that makes it easier-with the more force-to open the valve). With any board and a rip valve, internals that weight about 900-1200 grains work great because it takes less force to open the rip valve.
-Other things affect speed, mainly the quality of the parts used, the quality of the lubricant(s) used and tolerances, but we don't really need to worry about them.
Overall:
-I could get an impulse to cycle 40cps, but you still want it to shoot effectively though, right? You can never just say: "I just want my impulse to shoot really fast, because that is all I’m worried about" because when you set up an impulse, you always have to consider velocity and pressures. You always need to think about shoot down. here is my answer to your question though, for the fastest shooting (not just cycling) impulse:
Impulse+
WAS board
RIP valve
Stubby Equalizer bolt
Ti drilled "Tulip" Bolt Pin
Drilled aluminum hammer
silk shot ram
HFV/HFA/VFF/DFF
High Volume Valve Cap
Halo B
HPA tank
Very Well cleaned maxflo, ram, and hammer assembly.
Then, again, make sure everything is always clean with dow33, set your input to 140psi (+/- 5-10psi), set your dwell to the lowest setting while still shooting 280fps or so over the chrono. Oh yes, the impulse with all those parts I just described could cycle about 26bps really. IMO, an lpr would help your cycle time go down (meaning the gun can shoot faster), but you need a good lpr that can sustain 25+ cps/bps. All those parts are not necessary to get you impulse fast as hell. You could have an impulse shooting 20bps with a brass hammer, a voodoo bolt, and the stock bolt pin; those parts are just for the perfect impulse ;).
What lpr’s will be able to sustain high rates of fire (>20bps)?
-Pretty much any lpr out there will work fine, but look for properly working scm's, and i have found sonic lprs to be extremely fast recharging.
Does it make a big difference if I buy a drilled or round ti bolt pin?
-As long as it is made from titanium, it doesn’t matter… those 5 grains aren’t going to matter much…