why do air tanks cost so much?

[dagget007]

why do air tanks cost so much? how come sometimes an air tank is refered to as an n2 tank or an n2 system?

[spyderuser 123]

N2= nitro. and there is no real reason that CA tanks should be so expensive other than that people will pay that much for them. but they do have to be built much stronger though.

[dagget007]

yeah i know n2=nitro but why do they call it that when you fill it with compressed air?

[clown_13_2001]

Originally posted by dagget007
yeah i know n2=nitro but why do they call it that when you fill it with compressed air?

Not many of the experienced players say "nitro". Back in the day, and sometimes still now, they filled it with pure nitrogen.

[BigTarget04]

Ok I'm guessin they are so expensive because they have regulators on the tank. And the bottles probably must be manufactured much stronger than your run of the mill C02 tank.

[timmyfreaker]

More expensive materials, lower tolerances, higher hydros and regulators. And n2 s what they used to be filled with before someone realized that regular air has enough nitrogen to be stable. most peopel call them air tanks or HPA tanks.

[Lord Delta]

Originally posted by timmyfreaker
..., lower tolerances, ...

I think you meant higher tolerances, meaning they're more precise.

Part of the reason is the reg in the tank. And that the tanks must be able to withstand much higher pressures, it's only about 900 for co2, but 3-5000psi for N2. Also, fiberwrapped tanks are more expensive because of the materials and process. Like he said, they call it nitro when they fill w/ air, because air is 70% (or is it like 74%?) nitrogen.

[dashfan87]

regulator is what costs you so much on it, tank isnt even half the price. go look at prices on JUST a regulator vr. JUST a bottle.

[Lopez17]

99% of air fills these days are just High Pressure Air. Not Nitrogen. N2 is a bit outdated from 5-10 years ago. Specialized Air Compressors like you would see in a professional tool and dye shop or a dive shop are now used to fill tanks.

The reason it's more expensive has been addressed correctly by several people but CO2 tanks are cheap to produce because all you need is a piece of steel and an adapter. Cheap. Compressed Air tanks have regulators (expensive) are made of carbon fibers (very expensive) and have incredibly high tolerances to prevent...essentially...explosions, so there's extreme safety concerns hence the 3-5 year hydro dates on them. I've seen a carbon fiber wrapped tank get a nick and start to unravel. Very scary. They cost more but let's face it, High Pressure Air is cleaner and more efficient than C02, which is a liquid that doesn't expand uniformly and can be dangerous. Shake a C02 tank on a hot day and the pressure expands exponentially. $150-200 is relatively cheap ... all things being equal.

[QuiksilverMV]

It's reffered to n2 because they once filled tanks with just nitrogen. The tanks cost so much because the tank has to be very thick so the compressed air doesn't expand too much and kill you. They also cost a lot because in the valve is a type of regulator that keeps the out put at a set output and input pressure.

[timmyfreaker]

Originally posted by Lord Delta


I think you meant higher tolerances, meaning they're more precise.

Part of the reason is the reg in the tank. And that the tanks must be able to withstand much higher pressures, it's only about 900 for co2, but 3-5000psi for N2. Also, fiberwrapped tanks are more expensive because of the materials and process. Like he said, they call it nitro when they fill w/ air, because air is 70% (or is it like 74%?) nitrogen. No, I meant lower tolerances. Think about it; if you have low tolerance then you will allow it to stray very little, if at all from the requested specification. Lower tolerances is more precise than higher.

Edit: air is roughly 80% nitrogen

[IdiotWithAFlash]

they cost about 30-40 dollars to produce, the rest is profit, 3 companys actually make the tank, all of who's name escapes me, then the individual companies (crossfire, aci, angel air, smart parts) make the regultars (big shiny thing at the top) then it goes to your individual stores, which then attempt to make a profit so they raise the price, it is a vicious cycle...

[Lopez17]

Originally posted by timmyfreaker
No, I meant lower tolerances. Think about it; if you have low tolerance then you will allow it to stray very little, if at all from the requested specification. Lower tolerances is more precise than higher.

Edit: air is roughly 80% nitrogen

No...actually you mean higher tolerances. A higher tolerance is more standard deviations away from the middle/baseline/expected result. The more Sigmas something is from the expected result the more quality controls implied to ensure precision and the fewer number of failures. (If you've ever heard of the Six Sigma methodology you'll know what I'm talking about). Another way to think about it would be...would you rather have a high tolerance for pain, or a low one? Same thing here. :)

If you're talking about the physical property of the carbon fiber, it has a low tolerance as it doesn't match up to steel in terms of durability, ability to absorb heat, etc, but for the purpose of holding air, it's just as good, if not better in terms of tolerances for what it would be measured against since by all rights you're not going to be playing paintball with an acetylene torch and pliers. :eek: The thing about quality assurance is that you have to know which qualities you're measuring to determine the tolerances and determine the Standard Deviation so you can calculate your actual results against the expected results.

[IdiotWithAFlash]

lets end this dispute so that we can answer his question by using websters

Main Entry: tol·er·ance
Pronunciation: 'tä-l&-r&n(t)s, 'täl-r&n(t)s
Function: noun

#3 : the allowable deviation from a standard; especially : the range of variation permitted in maintaining a specified dimension in machining a piece

now if you have a low tolerance, you tolerate a very low amout of deviation, high tolerance, you tolerate higher deviations. any further questions?

[Pistolero2112]

They call it Nitro because Nitrogen has a very high percentage in the air we breathe. I think Air is 90 % nitrogen. Hence nitro.

[timmyfreaker]

Originally posted by Pistolero2112
They call it Nitro because Nitrogen has a very high percentage in the air we breathe. I think Air is 90 % nitrogen. Hence nitro. They call it nitrogen because they used to fill the tanks with concentrated(>99%) nitrogen. The air we breathe is roughly 80% N2, 17%O2, 2%CO2 and 1% other gases.

[Pistolero2112]

Oh ok, I was told otherwise. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Lopez17]

Originally posted by IdiotWithAFlash

#3 : the allowable deviation from a standard; especially : the range of variation permitted in maintaining a specified dimension in machining a piece

now if you have a low tolerance, you tolerate a very low amout of deviation, high tolerance, you tolerate higher deviations. any further questions?

The definition is correct but your analysis/interpretation of Websters is flawed. Go do a statistical analysis at any reputable company and ask them if they would prefer that there be more or less sigma deviations from the norm. The answer would be more. Because each deviation is a higher form of quality control by something like a factor of 100. High and Low in this setting don't constitute a scale in terms of performance but a threshold for the number controls employed to keep the product within spec or a process within allowable limits. I can assure you of this. I do CMMI and ISO-9000 audits as part of my job including SCAMPI A, B and C audits on very high end parts in the aeronautics and IT industries. We also employ continuous process improvements as part of being a certified Level 5 CMMI organization (one of like 2 in the United States).

I can safely assure you that you want something with high tolerance and not low tolerance.

To illustrate this...the standard IQ score is like 100ish. 1 Standard Deviation from the norm is +/- 15. Translated into the machine world, a low tolerance would fall to the left. Higher tolerance to the right. Higher means more controls employed. In this situation 2SD's from the norm or expected or control is +/- 30 IQ points. The majority of the US population is within 1 SD from the norm (roughly 85%) meaning 85-115. Fewer people are within 2 SD's of the baseline. Lower tolerances would be to the left again at an IQ of 70. Higher IQ would be to the right...in this case 130. Gifted people...the extremely bright usually fall above 145 and that's usually less than 2% of the population. Same for extremely retarted/learning disabled/orthogenic types.

Gifted programs at most High Schools usually take between 125 to 130 and up. Would you rather have a low tolerance and be within 1SD of the control as you imply or have a higher tolerance and be 2 or 3 Standard Deviations from the baseline.

When any of you start getting higher level college courses in Mechanical Engineering, Statistics, Decision Analysis and so on.

Here's a URL that explains fault tolerance as it relates to an IT system. At the most basic level a low tolerance in an IT system will merely continue operation. A highly tolerant system will continue as if nothing was wrong. (i.e. more controls employed to ensure that it's working within spec/baseline).

http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/F/fault_tolerance.html

This seems a bit misleading until you actually need to use this in a professional setting.

[IdiotWithAFlash]

so high tolerance=good
low tolerance=bad

[dashfan87]

Originally posted by timmyfreaker
1% other gases.

i bet i know what gas that is......

[timmyfreaker]

Originally posted by dashfan87


i bet i know what gas that is...... Hydrogen, helium, argon, halogen, other noble gases, methane, butane and several hundred others I'm too lazy to type.

[IdiotWithAFlash]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Matt31490]

What is better, an output preset pressure of 450 or 800 for an Evil Omen

plz get back to me
Sobored314 (IM me)

[IdiotWithAFlash]

omen you would prob wanna go with an 450, but in all honesty it doesnt matter because of the regulator

[clown_13_2001]

Originally posted by Matt31490
What is better, an output preset pressure of 450 or 800 for an Evil Omen

plz get back to me
Sobored314 (IM me)

Go with an 800 just for the risk of shootdown.