No A-5s in tourneys???

[milkmanx91]

I was just wondering why the A-5 isnt really considered a speedball gun? And why nobody uses it in speedball. I mean think abou it if u put an E-grip on it itl go about 15bps right??? Any other gun with a regular 12 volt revoluion loader will only go 12bps(because the 12volt only goes 12bps). So bps isnt really an issue. The A-5 is accurate enough its no cocker but its still ok.And the A-5 has a smaller profile than most guns because of its side loading thingie. Why do i never see these guns in tourneys and stuff??!!?!?!??

[me and my tippy]

tippmann effect does.. or watever there called. i speedball with a 98c so i dont see why not, people do

[hybrid-sniper]

Originally posted by milkmanx91
because of its side loading thingie.
Thats part of the reason, hopper shots suck as is, this just adds to it.

Also, with the money somebody spends on an A-5 they could have just bought a used BKO or imp, which are faster, smaller and lighter.

[beetleboy09]

1 word. HEAVY

[xjnation]

Originally posted by beetleboy09
1 word. HEAVY

actuallly I just weighed it against the TES only 2 ounces difference inclucing hopper etc. I chatted with oneof the tippmann effect guys a year or so agon on warpig chat and he said he never had been taken out by a hopper shot. He said it never came into play for any of the 3 guys who used em that season. maybe just lucky.

I ahve played speed with my A5 and never hit there also. I dont really think its as big of a problem as many percieve

[AccessTime]

15bps is kinda slow for a tourny, most of the tourny's I've seen over the past year people were going near 30bps, Angel Speed or similar markers. It's also a gas hog, low pressure is an add-on and it's still inefficient compared to the high-end tourny guns.

The tourny players I talk to say that the main limitation in tournies today is gas usage, as you can only take so much gas onto the field (it's heavy) and the need to fire 2000 rounds of this-shell paint in a 5-minute match from a single tank is basically a given.

No real interest in tournies today, except stock tournies.

[OWNAGE]

Originally posted by AccessTime
I've seen over the past year people were going near 30bps
I highly doubt that.

One of the main reasons why most people don't like using Tippys in a tourny is because of the profile. Tippys have big profile. Speedballers like to play tight. But as Me & My Tippy said, people do play with Tippys in tournys.

[Eladamri]

Now I'm upset. I've never had the privilege of seeing anyone shoot 30 bps ever. Man, I guess I've been playing the wrong tournaments. The fastest person on our college team can sustain 16 bps on his angel speed, and I've seen him burst 18 over a chrony without gloves. That impressed the crap out of me, but 30 bps WOW, I'd probably be too intimidated to even enter the tournaments you've been watching.

[bluegoose]

nobody can hit 30 bps without cheatin one way or another (IE 0 de-bounce, ramping)... ^^although you could've been sarcastic...

[AccessTime]

Originally posted by bluegoose
nobody can hit 30 bps without cheatin one way or another (IE 0 de-bounce, ramping)... ^^although you could've been sarcastic...
No I am dead serious. This was a tourny at Camp Pendelton Paintball Park, July/August/September timeframe of this year. I don't remember the exact date, but it was on the heavily used speedball field.

The typical gun was just a highly tuned Angel IV ('angel speed'). Tuned in every way, trigger job, hopper, etc. These things were basically fire hoses... 18 bps stock, 25-30 tuned up. Most people were simply in awe, we were just shaking our heads. I have an R/T on my A-5, I know what 15 bps sounds like and these were shooting much faster than 15.

The technology is definately out there, I have seen it with my own eyes. To anyone that has seen a tourny in the past 6 months, it's perfectly clear the direction the tourny 'scene' is heading in. The big push now is gas and air efficiency, not ROF... people were walking on the field with a case of paint in their pods for a 5-minute game.

After witnessing this, it seems like a stock tourny where everyone gets roughly the same gun and same capabilities is the only way to do it these days.

[insain]

The technology may be out there but that would not be without cheating. I'm pretty sure it's not physically possible to move your fingers back and forth 30 times per second. So yeah.....

But to answer your question about the a5 in tournys. I used to use one when i played and I used it for about a year. I could pull i think like 15bps without response with my special way of shooting. I never really got hopper hits and didnt notice the weight. I personally did fine with it but people just want higher end guns these days.

[bluegoose]

yeah, ^^what he said.. a gun might be able to cycle 30 bps (hell, my mech. spyder could).. but you could never pull a trigger, even a very nicely done trigger that fast.. it's just never been done without cheating.. they could've had cheater boards or something in them

[Avery_mac]

r/t aren't turney legal + its slow when pulling a-5 trigger and if you go out and buy a e-grip and double trigger you could of just got a BKO new.. and their faster better

[AccessTime]

Originally posted by insain
The technology may be out there but that would not be without cheating. I'm pretty sure it's not physically possible to move your fingers back and forth 30 times per second. So yeah...
Maybe it's just something you have to see to believe, again, this is what I saw. It's why I say 'this ain't for me'.

As far as the technique, I believe it's as much the 'trigger job' as the technique itself. The trigger itself acts as something of a solid penjulum that swings back and forth, rather normal at low speeds. At high speeds, you move your hands up the trigger to the top where the pull is very little, and the trigger itself is 'bouncing' back and forth like a high-speed penjulum. As long as you keep 'vibrating' your hand at the right frequency, it keeps firing. The trick is in staying legal, if the trigger fires even once on it's own or after you take your finger off it, that's not legal.

The trigger is doing most of the work, because it bounces back on itself, your finger still does a small portion of the work (otherwise it would be firing on its own) but it's not that much compared to a normal trigger.

[insain]

What you said was cheating. It's called trigger bounce and is not legal in tournys. All you have to do is hit the trigger and it will go back and forth on its own. Then you could get 30+bps but not just using your fingers like you are supposed to.

[Eladamri]

My first reply was complete sarcasm because I can't believe that this is even being debated. 30 bps is not humanly possible without cheating by either using a ramping chip or bounce. Unfortunately I have witnessed tournaments where it is obvious that the players are cheating and the refs seem to look the other way. This is exactly what you are describing, 30 bps is not possible with a legal marker. This increased trend to cheat is unfortunate but players will always take any advantage they can get away with. I have played against people with bounce and ramping and truthfully they really don't have that much of an advantage. IMO they ought to ban everything but Semi only boards for the main tournaments for all markers.

Edit: Sorry that this thread got hijacked. The reason the A-5 isn't used in tourneys that often is because you can buy a used tournament lvl marker such as a non vision Impulse or BKO for around the cost of a new A-5 with no upgrades. Rts aren't allowed in most tourneys so you have to have an egrip, and the egrip is slower than I can rip on my Impulse. Finally I think the side feed turns alot of people off of them. I snapshoot out both sides of the bunker and having a vert feed marker has meant less hopper hits for me when popping out on the right. I angle my marker slightly when I shoot to keep most of the hopper behind the bunker, you can't do that with the A-5.

[Paintballrocks]

one reason ppl do not use tippmanns in tournaments is the price it costs to have them tournament ready lets look at this for a second

A-5: 229.99$
E-grip:115$
New Barrel: anywhere from 30 to 175$
Double Trigger: 20-40$
and then at the least you would need a reg. or an a/s'ed tank(a/s=anti-syphoned)

so that would equal

bare minimums(only things needed)=429.99

all out(buying most expensive things)=649.99

so by the time you buy all this stuff you couldve have bought a faster, lighter, and a more tournament reday gun out of the box

hope that answers your questions:)

[Fishy's4Ever]

I'd say just because you can't snapshot with it.

[Kurama]

The A-5 is awkwardly porportioned, and the grip is placed WAY far out compared to most guns, making it uncommon in tourneys.

[Eden's Legion]

i got a tippy A-5 with 14" Stiffi and double trigger (rly useless except that it lightens the trigger pull) ive been told a million times if i put a response trigger on it (which i rly want too) they wont let me on a speedball tourny feild i need a real answer to this from people who know wat they're saying

ty

[Toodeep]

NO u cant use the RT in tourneys .

[Eladamri]

Some fields will not allow markers with RT to be used at all and some tournaments will not allow you to use an RT in them. I'm guessing your talking local rookie lvl tournaments, and that just depends on who is hosting it. But I think its safe to say that generally Rts will not be allowed. If you really want to make your marker faster get the egrip. The egrip is allowed in every tournament that they allow other electric markers in.

[IfItWoUlDmAtTeR]

Originally posted by AccessTime
15bps is kinda slow for a tourny, most of the tourny's I've seen over the past year people were going near 30bps, Angel Speed or similar markers. It's also a gas hog, low pressure is an add-on and it's still inefficient compared to the high-end tourny guns.
No real interest in tournies today, except stock tournies.


I Thaught a halo can only feed 22-26?

[Paintballrocks]

i would think a gun could get 25 bps by its self if it couldnt then why would their be a need for halo's i know i cant walk the trigger that fast but some of the ppl at my field can

[Eladamri]

The people at your field cannot walk their trigger at 25bps. I'm sorry but they just can't.

[TRIGGER WALKER]

its so possible

[Eladamri]

not without ramping or bounce. You can not legally pull 25 bps. You may be able to break 20 by raking. Raking is frigging useless in a game. Any one who claims to be able to walk their trigger legally and hit 25 bps is full of it.

[Eden's Legion]

im with Eladamri ive been to rookie tournys and watched a few pro not even Keelie (dont no how to spell her name :( )
can shoot her DM4 (or is now a 5....) 25 bps.
ill look into gettin an eblade form my a-5 ty

[Eden's Legion]

i dont think they make e-blades for A-5... if they do leave a link to wear u can buy one....ty

[coolrazer]

It's not an "eblade" its and e-grip, and you could have just im'd me on AIM silly!

A-5 E-Grip (http://www.actionvillage.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=MeqFUMvmdG2F1IpZgtVF-MEvzgccg1DkX3k=?ProductID=AYysFAY79U0AAAD3d%2e2lA_ 2s)

[YoBoneDaddy]

Sorry if this is "hijacking" but I'll be brief. Is an AutoMag ULT RT-Pro tournie-illegal as well?

[Eladamri]

Originally posted by YoBoneDaddy
Sorry if this is "hijacking" but I'll be brief. Is an AutoMag ULT RT-Pro tournie-illegal as well? The automag Rt is not as reactive as the Tippmann RT so it has not been banned in any major tournaments. I know some fields have banned them and you may find a local tournament that has banned them. But for the most part the answer to your question is the Automag RT is generally Tourney legal.

[YoBoneDaddy]

thanks

[cpantherswin90]

i suggest you guYS just buy a spyder imagine with T-board and eyes...great speed ball gun.

[ltgir]

Originally posted by me and my tippy
tippmann effect does.. or watever there called. i speedball with a 98c so i dont see why not, people do
Tippmann effect uses 98s. A couple of there guys used A-5 but switched to 98s.
Why A-5s are NOT speed ball guns:
Heavy
the hopper sticks out to the right about 2 inches
do they look like speed ball guns???

[QuiksilverMV]

becasue for the price of an A5 and the e grip up grade you could get something twice as fast and accurate as it.

[P8intballer13]

you guys when a company says a gun goes 30bps THATS HOW FAST IT SHOOTS WITHOUT PAINTBALLS IN THE GUN.
a gun can cycle faster without paintballs in it.

[DeadGuy]

Originally posted by QuiksilverMV
becasue for the price of an A5 and the e grip up grade you could get something twice as fast and accurate as it.

i've heard this so freaking much and no one has ever once said what gun or guns will do this with what add-ons...im tired of people saying crap like that and not backing it up...sorry just a noob but NO ONE ever says whats better and when they do theres always some type of cons to it..

[P8intballer13]

screw you im trying to make a point so is every1 else

[YoBoneDaddy]

Originally posted by DeadGuy


i've heard this so freaking much and no one has ever once said what gun or guns will do this with what add-ons...im tired of people saying crap like that and not backing it up...sorry just a noob but NO ONE ever says whats better and when they do theres always some type of cons to it..

Grabbed some prices for you from ActionVillage.com, just to show you some other things in the same price range. Whether they're better or worse, meh, I just figured I'd show some of the things that would compare to it price wise.

Tippmann A-5 Paintball Gun - Black $229.99
Tippmann A5 EGrip Trigger Frame $115.00
TOTAL $344.99

Compare against...

PMI Piranha Eforce Evo 2004 Paintball Gun - Red $229.00
(Price Difference) $(115.99)

Indian Creek Designs ICD BKO 2004 Paintball Gun - Black $289.95
(Price Difference) $(55.04)

System X Vengeance Type X Paintball Gun - Blue $315.00
(Price Difference) $(29.99)

Evil Omen Paintball Gun - Black $329.95
(Price Difference) $(15.04)

Worrgames Autococker 2004 Vertical Paintball Gun - Red $359.00
(Price Difference) $14.01

ANS GX4 Paintball Gun - Powder Green/Black $494.95
(Price Difference) $149.96

[Guitarguy]

Originally posted by me and my tippy
tippmann effect does.. or watever there called. i speedball with a 98c so i dont see why not, people do

Actually I think Tippmann effect uses a 98c too

[Tipp A-5 mann]

Originally posted by Eladamri
My first reply was complete sarcasm because I can't believe that this is even being debated. 30 bps is not humanly possible




You do kno that the new angel can get 31 BPS. its Rocky Cagnonis gun and his hit 31 BPS. It was on the nppl DVD

[wrestlingmattt]

Originally posted by YoBoneDaddy


Grabbed some prices for you from ActionVillage.com, just to show you some other things in the same price range. Whether they're better or worse, meh, I just figured I'd show some of the things that would compare to it price wise.

Tippmann A-5 Paintball Gun - Black $229.99
Tippmann A5 EGrip Trigger Frame $115.00
TOTAL $344.99

Compare against...

PMI Piranha Eforce Evo 2004 Paintball Gun - Red $229.00
(Price Difference) $(115.99)

Indian Creek Designs ICD BKO 2004 Paintball Gun - Black $289.95
(Price Difference) $(55.04)

System X Vengeance Type X Paintball Gun - Blue $315.00
(Price Difference) $(29.99)

Evil Omen Paintball Gun - Black $329.95
(Price Difference) $(15.04)

Worrgames Autococker 2004 Vertical Paintball Gun - Red $359.00
(Price Difference) $14.01

ANS GX4 Paintball Gun - Powder Green/Black $494.95
(Price Difference) $149.96

I agree with you. Buying an A-5 with an e-grip is not the best speedball gun, but in the end its the player not the gun.
Also, just so you know, when you buy an A-5 you don't need to buy an $80 hopper, so add another $80-$100 to each of those prices. ;)

[YoBoneDaddy]

Actually that is a very good point, the cyclone system is awesome and does save you money on an aftermarket hopper. The A-5 is a good gun, I just think the price is hard to justify.

[Eladamri]

Originally posted by Tipp A-5 mann





You do kno that the new angel can get 31 BPS. its Rocky Cagnonis gun and his hit 31 BPS. It was on the nppl DVD Guns are capable of hitting 31 BPS, I am not arguing that. What I am saying is that a person cannot shoot a sustained 25 bps with balls in their marker. And how was that 31 bps measured? If it was relying on what the Angel board said then it wasn't really 31 BPS. The board only registers the fastest time between 2 shots, not strings. I have no problem admitting I am wrong but I will have to see it to believe it in this case.

[P8intballer13]

Originally posted by Eladamri
Guns are capable of hitting 31 BPS, I am not arguing that. What I am saying is that a person cannot shoot a sustained 25 bps with balls in their marker. And how was that 31 bps measured? If it was relying on what the Angel board said then it wasn't really 31 BPS. The board only registers the fastest time between 2 shots, not strings. I have no problem admitting I am wrong but I will have to see it to believe it in this case.
I completly agree with Eladamri. either they're ramping their boards or its steriods SERIOUSLY thirty balls a second?!?!!? HOLY COW! :eek:

[slaminator3323]

i know im a little late but JUST BECAUSE THE GUN CAN SHOOT 31 BPS DOESNT MEAN THE PERSON PULLING THE TRIGGER CAN

[senghing27]

You can't walk 31 with out some help,( ramping, debounce, whatever) Its possible but very unlikely, Raking on the other hand yeah, but whats the point??
Why A-5s aren't in speedball( with some exceptions, i.e. Tippmann effect)
Heavy
Ugly ( in ways)
Gas hogs
Big profile
Costs alot to make it tourney style, E grip, LPK, Etc.
Heres my a-5 compared to my ionhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/senghing27/Paintball.jpg

[Coenen]

Originally posted by slaminator3323
i know im a little late but JUST BECAUSE THE GUN CAN SHOOT 31 BPS DOESNT MEAN THE PERSON PULLING THE TRIGGER CAN A LITTLE LATE!!! 5 months is more than 'A LITTLE!'

CLOSED!