Best New Electro Blowback of 2004

[BoneDaddy68]

What do you think is the best new electro blowback of 2004?

[clown_13_2001]

I will rank them all from best to least, on how they are stock, not upgraded.

evo
protium
mongoose 2
tes
fenix
misfit
pilot
imagine
e99
silver bullet

[paintballer8807]

why isn't the quadra (http://www.jtusa.com/iframee.asp) on there?

[BoneDaddy68]

The quadra isnt as good as he protium. The TES is way better than the mongoose 2 an protium. Neither of em have an anti chop eye like the TES does.

[clown_13_2001]

Originally posted by BoneDaddy68
The quadra isnt as good as he protium. The TES is way better than the mongoose 2 an protium. Neither of em have an anti chop eye like the TES does.

The tes is horrible out of the box, as I mentioned before, I compared the guns bone stock.

And just because there are eyes, doesn't mean they work very well.:eyes:

[Airborne07]

i have been hearing better news lately on the tes working out of the box. i can attest to this. i am really pleased with mine. it seems like a few bad experiences have marked this gun with this stereotype. also the eye on the gun does its job and if you don't like it, you can turn it off.

[BoneDaddy68]

Airborne is right, I OWN a TES and I can say it's amazing stock. I've shot over 10,000 balls through it and never chopped once. It blows away every other gun in itz price range except for maybe the EVO, and even there its close.

[clown_13_2001]

Well, when they came out until about 6 months after that, there were problems, and dragun admitted to it. It was more than a "few" people saying that. And the eye is good as long as you have bright paint to use with it. And my imagine doesn't have an eye, but I can say that I never chopped also.:P

[BoneDaddy68]

yea dragun did admit 1 of every 20 i think it was had a small problem, luckily myne didn't have any trouble

[paintballer8807]

Originally posted by BoneDaddy68
The quadra isnt as good as he protium. The TES is way better than the mongoose 2 an protium. Neither of em have an anti chop eye like the TES does.

in my action village mag it says that the quadra is better and it cost 500. the protium is only 400. also i have an evo and i like it better than the tes. i think it is better stock and the evo has lots of ups to buy. i have spent 679 dollars on my set up witch includes marker, tank, hopper, and ups. if u don't believe me look at the pmi pic thread. it has never chopped on me and i have been using it since July.

[clown_13_2001]

Originally posted by BoneDaddy68
yea dragun did admit 1 of every 20 i think it was had a small problem, luckily myne didn't have any trouble

More like 1 out of 10. ;)

[BoneDaddy68]

About the quadra Protium thing, I guess then I put the wrong gun on the poll, but either way, the new JTs suk and are wayyyyyy overpriced.

[paintballer8807]

it is 1 in 10. i know a few people that own them and they are running at 500-800 psi and work like crap.

[I'm_Addicted]

I have a TES and have had a whole sugar load of problems with it. Like for some reason when I got mine the bolt was in the wrong way and mine leaks like crazy out of the front block even with new o rings in. The reincarnation 2 is way better stock no doubt.

[Airborne07]

if it is 1 out of 10 then dragun should advertise the slogan 9 out of 10 paintballers approve, and that is pretty consistant to what the reviews show for the tes, 8.8 out of 10. if you do have a leaky tes, make teflon tape your friend.

[paintballer8807]

i am sure people would love to put teflon tape on there marker right after they open the box. :)

[clown_13_2001]

Originally posted by Airborne07
if it is 1 out of 10 then dragun should advertise the slogan 9 out of 10 paintballers approve, and that is pretty consistant to what the reviews show for the tes, 8.8 out of 10. if you do have a leaky tes, make teflon tape your friend.

Most people who write the reviews are very biased towards their newly bought product. Take an example of the BE line of guns, they get very low ratings because noobs think they will be god if they trash the product. Then you have the tes, which they probably haven't even shot with air yet, and make it sound like the best gun ever. Get where I am coming from?

[paintballer8807]

the name TES sniper tends to attract the recball players. compared to there old 98 custom it is the best gun ever.

[Airborne07]

i understand what your saying. i know that the tes isn't the best gun ever, but i think it does rank right up there with the best stock electro blowbacks for the money.

[paintballer8807]

it is good. just not as good as some of the other electors around it's price range.

[Psycho_warden]

I would have to say EVO, because its from a well known company that makes quality guns, and it has eyes, and alot of ups you can get for it.

[BoneDaddy68]

Originally posted by I'm_Addicted
I have a TES and have had a whole sugar load of problems with it. Like for some reason when I got mine the bolt was in the wrong way and mine leaks like crazy out of the front block even with new o rings in. The reincarnation 2 is way better stock no doubt.


You've gotta be kiddin me. The first Mongoose was the most unreliable tempermental thing EVER. All they did to the reincarnation II was give it a delrin bolt and a new paint job so I doubt it is much better than the first Mongoose.

[paintballer8807]

is this supposed to be the best marker for 04 or the best marker for the price for 04. cuz i would find it kind of odd if people thought the imagin could out preform an evo.

[clown_13_2001]

Originally posted by paintballer8807
is this supposed to be the best marker for 04 or the best marker for the price for 04. cuz i would find it kind of odd if people thought the imagin could out preform an evo.

The evo was my top pick. :tup:

[AggiePBall]

I've played a few weekends now with my Evo... been satisfied with it from day 1 (except for the stock trigger). I got a Boss Blade for it today and now it absolutely rips.

Some of the guys that run our local field play tons of tourneys and most have uped impulses or shockers... I'm not saying that the Evo can perform equally as well as the high priced guns, but it was pretty damn close... with a new reg, nitro, bolt, boss blade and barrel kit you won't be at too much of a disadvantage when playing with the big dogs.

Like I said.... I know it's not running at 150 psi, and my evo is not as consistent or efficient or quite as fast as the top end guns (+ or - about 8fps with the stock reg and nitro), but it's a solid gun, plenty accurate and can rip up to 20 bps (the boss blade makes a HUGE difference in speed).

I'm more than satisfied with my choice and purchase, no regrets here.

That being said... one of the fellas let me play with his $2000+ uped new shocker today for a bit and that thing is ungodly fast with the bounce. It was nice, but I'm happy w/ the EVO, it held it's own.

[clown_13_2001]

Originally posted by AggiePBall


Like I said.... I know it's not running at 150 psi, and my evo is not as consistent or efficient or quite as fast as the top end guns (+ or - about 8fps with the stock reg and nitro), but it's a solid gun, plenty accurate and can rip up to 20 bps (the boss blade makes a HUGE difference in speed).


I doubt you are coming close to the 20 bps cap even with the boss blade. ;)

A stock switch just won't let you get that high.

[AggiePBall]

I'm definitely not hitting 20... but 15-17 was reached with fair consistency during short bursts.

That was my first day of practice w/ the new trigger, hopefully it will improve as I get more used to it.

[paintballer8807]

no way u can get 17

[clown_13_2001]

How are you measuring your bps?

[AggiePBall]

I guess one of the guys was using a pc to tune his marker and had some type of program on it to measure bps? I don't know for sure how it works.

After putting the boss on it I had some type of perfect spot on the trigger that if I sqeezed it just right the vibrations of the gun would shoot in an almost auto like rate. It went off like a machine gun for as long as I could hit that "spot".

Sorry if I'm not using the correct terms, I just started playing again and I'm new to all the electro terms.

Like I said, all the guys with the high end guns were pretty impressed with what my $200 fish could rip off.

[clown_13_2001]

Originally posted by AggiePBall
I guess one of the guys was using a pc to tune his marker and had some type of program on it to measure bps? I don't know for sure how it works.

After putting the boss on it I had some type of perfect spot on the trigger that if I sqeezed it just right the vibrations of the gun would shoot in an almost auto like rate. It went off like a machine gun for as long as I could hit that "spot".

Sorry if I'm not using the correct terms, I just started playing again and I'm new to all the electro terms.

Like I said, all the guys with the high end guns were pretty impressed with what my $200 fish could rip off.

Yes, I can measure your bps via my computer as long as you can post a sound file of you walking the trigger.

And what you are doing, is called bounce. Alot of people call it the "sweetspot" of the trigger, but in reality it is just a specific point on the trigger where if you give it one good hit, it will bounce back and forth off of the microswitch.

[paintballer8807]

do piranhas really have bounce?

[AggiePBall]

Mine does "bounce"... and it rips. It's not as fast as thier up'ed impy's and shockers but it's damn fast and actually pretty close if not equal to the uped impy's.

Like I said they measured it on their computer somehow at the field and were all very impressed at how fast my fish could rip w/ the boss while bouncing.

Not sure how they set my trigger up to bounce (combination of the two set screws), but I've been practicing "sweetspotting" my boss after they made the correct adustments and I can hit it pretty consistently now. All you have to do is barely press the very top of the trigger with the side of your finger and it fires like on full auto.

Only downside is that my evo now goes through my nitro tank in a matter of minutes when I'm doing well and with C02 it shoots too fast and freezes up. So I'm all out of air now until this weekend, so no more practice sweetspotting until then I guess.

The stock trigger is trash... the boss made all the difference in the world.

If their are any non-believers I can try to take a clip w/ my digi cam, not sure how I could post it though.

[clown_13_2001]

All guns have bounce, if you can find the spot where it bounces.

And do you have a microphone for your computer? If so, just shoot in front of it, and then host it somewhere.

[paintballer8807]

how u do have the screws set? i don't dry fire much cuz it wasts the battery if i am at a field and at home it is kind of loud. i know that i can get an average of 8 or 9 easy with just the frame no air. i did notice an increase of bps on the field that i couldn't explain so it must be it. well how do u have your screws set?

[AggiePBall]

Not sure honestly... it's a very short pull. I think the screw on the top is the most important.

I let the guys at the feild tinker with it for me, sorry I couldn't be of more help.

[BoneDaddy68]

I have a question...why does every1 like the Imagine 04 so much? It's not very different from the old one, it just had a new body and is actually more expensive then it used to be. So why does every1 like it so much?

[metalmaster739]

yeah u can let clown answer this...

[clown_13_2001]

Originally posted by BoneDaddy68
I have a question...why does every1 like the Imagine 04 so much? It's not very different from the old one, it just had a new body and is actually more expensive then it used to be. So why does every1 like it so much?

Because kingman doesn't make the 03 imagine anymore? :idea:

And the 04 is only 110 bucks, actually less than the 03 imagines.

[BoneDaddy68]

110 bucks...I didn't know it was that cheap...pretty good deal

[clown_13_2001]

Originally posted by BoneDaddy68
110 bucks...I didn't know it was that cheap...pretty good deal

That is why I recommend it, my friend. ;)

[paintballer8807]

i haven't seen the new frames yet but i am sure they r 10 times better than the old esp frames

[DarkeWolf]

back on topic....sorta. I noticed that the silver bullet was listed in the poll. I was looking at them, before I got my tes. Has anybody actually Used one, and be able to rate it? I'm just curious about 'em.

[clown_13_2001]

Originally posted by DarkeWolf
back on topic....sorta. I noticed that the silver bullet was listed in the poll. I was looking at them, before I got my tes. Has anybody actually Used one, and be able to rate it? I'm just curious about 'em.

They are known to have electronics problems.

[BoneDaddy68]

Yes ive used them before and i 2 was looking at them be4 i got my TES. Stick with the TES.

Silver Bullet

Looks- Incredible milling and color(best in chrome) and it doesn't scratch easily

Reliability- Horrible!!! A couple of friends and i boguht one for a friend and it has broken down 4 times since even with constant care and maintenance.

R.O.F- 13 Bps, its decent but the trigger looks a lot lighter than it really is.

Silver Bullet isn't worth it simply because as i said it is not reliable at all, stick with the TES or a Syndicate Misfit.

[DarkeWolf]

thanks for the input on the Silver Bullet. I dont have the money to put into getting another marker (still buying gear too). But I was just curious about them. And yeah....I am very happy with my TES. :)
I havent had any probs at all with mine, and the only thing that I dont really like about it, is the flat trigger, and the very short drop forward.

[BoneDaddy68]

Yea I'm not a big fan of its drop forward either, even though it's adjustable its too small.

[DarkeWolf]

hear hear! *nods fervently*

[BoneDaddy68]

rank these spyders...e99 avant, pilot, imagine, pheonix, Rodeo w/ ESP Frame

[clown_13_2001]

Originally posted by BoneDaddy68
rank these spyders...e99 avant, pilot, imagine, pheonix, Rodeo w/ ESP Frame

Rate them how? There can be many different ways...

[BoneDaddy68]

Best (that goes first) to worst (that goes last)

[clown_13_2001]

Originally posted by BoneDaddy68
Best (that goes first) to worst (that goes last)

They all perform exactly the same, just they cost more than each other.

[BoneDaddy68]

does kingman still make the AMG? I always liked it and now they seem to have disappeared like the flash did.

[clown_13_2001]

Originally posted by BoneDaddy68
does kingman still make the AMG? I always liked it and now they seem to have disappeared like the flash did.

The led and lcd amg is discontinued, as is the flash.

[The Music Man]

Wow... why isnt the Evo winning? It is DEFINITELY the best out of all those. Ive tried all of them.

[blehmeh]

noone has considered the surge bonez???it has more features then a spyder fenix and looks amazing.. i havent shot one but i am looking for some one to give me more input on this gun.. but from what i have read it seems like an awesome gun and would be my choice from top 04 if it was there... clown u know ne thing about this :D

[paintballer8807]

Originally posted by The Music Man
Wow... why isn't the Evo winning? It is DEFINITELY the best out of all those. Ive tried all of them.

its not winning because the imagine is only 110 and people think that we are talking about price. that and allot of noobs that own the imagin r voting for it and don't know what an evo is.

[BoneDaddy68]

Originally posted by paintballer8807


its not winning because the imagine is only 110 and people think that we are talking about price. that and allot of noobs that own the imagin r voting for it and don't know what an evo is.


well said

:cold: Best simley EVER

[clown_13_2001]

Originally posted by blehmeh
noone has considered the surge bonez???it has more features then a spyder fenix and looks amazing.. i havent shot one but i am looking for some one to give me more input on this gun.. but from what i have read it seems like an awesome gun and would be my choice from top 04 if it was there... clown u know ne thing about this :D

It is an overpriced, milled, tes.

[Empyre]

best new EBB for 2005:
Vexor Eye

(Hope GameFace can pull through and make it a solid gun though)

It is much like the surge but $100 less and has a few more upgrades

compared to the TES, it is $0-20 more and has many more upgrades plus a better reg, barrel, and eyes. (to say the least)

[DarkeWolf]

Originally posted by Empyre
compared to the TES, it is $0-20 more and has many more upgrades plus a better reg, barrel, and eyes. (to say the least)

ok, I'll agree that coming stock with breakbeams, its superior to the bouncebeam eyes of a TES. And since I dont really know much about regs, I cant say anything about that. Nor, have I shot the factory barrel of the vexor.

And I'm not wanting to start up an argument/debate, but how do you figure that its more upgradable than a tes?

[Stanman]

Originally posted by DarkeWolf

And I'm not wanting to start up an argument/debate, but how do you figure that its more upgradable than a tes?

:nod: Where did he get that? They are both spyder compatible... :eyes:

Oh and both the stock regs blow arse... :( But the barrel on the Vexor Eye will hold its own (it's the same as the stock on the E-Rex Pro)... And yes the stock break beam for that price is very nice not to mention, what looks to be, metal eye covers that look much better than cheesy plastic ones....

[The Music Man]

Cheesy plastic? Guess what, the "plastic" used on the Evo is the same stuff thats used in Ions, thats also used in Glocks.

Yup, cheesy plastic... :rolleyes:

[DarkeWolf]

Originally posted by The Music Man
Cheesy plastic? Guess what, the "plastic" used on the Evo is the same stuff thats used in Ions, thats also used in Glocks.

Yup, cheesy plastic... :rolleyes:

Hey....the plastic eye covers on a TES....ARE cheesy. I dont care what they are made of, they could have been designed to be a bit more ummmmm attractive.

btw you guys really make me wanna howl when you compare the ion to the glock. really....make....me....want....to.....Howl.
has anybody seen the formula for the polyframes in the glock, and the polyframes for the ion? show me, so that we can all compare them. until then, we have NO reason to believe that they have anything in common with a glock.

[lahiem]

i can get a bonez for 250cad

[Stanman]

Originally posted by DarkeWolf


Hey....the plastic eye covers on a TES....ARE cheesy. I dont care what they are made of, they could have been designed to be a bit more ummmmm attractive.

btw you guys really make me wanna howl when you compare the ion to the glock. really....make....me....want....to.....Howl.
has anybody seen the formula for the polyframes in the glock, and the polyframes for the ion? show me, so that we can all compare them. until then, we have NO reason to believe that they have anything in common with a glock.

:nod: yes.... please never under any circumstances compare a material in a marker to a material in a gun.... :mad: And I really couldn't care less what that plastic is used for... It is still cheesy...:rolleyes:

[paintballer8807]

back on topic. well it seems that most ppl r voting for the evo. it is really hard 2 say that any other markers on the list r better. i was just wondering about the quadra. i haven't heard anything about it. since it costs 2 times as much as an evo i think we should try 2 find some stuff on it.

[BoneDaddy68]

Originally posted by paintballer8807
back on topic. well it seems that most ppl r voting for the evo. it is really hard 2 say that any other markers on the list r better. i was just wondering about the quadra. i haven't heard anything about it. since it costs 2 times as much as an evo i think we should try 2 find some stuff on it.


It's an insanely overpriced EVO

[Empyre]

imagine 04 is winning and EVOs are butt ugly and are plastic :yuck:

[paintballer8807]

omg. 2 be a member of pbr u should have 2 pass an IQ test. we r turning into PBN. help!!!help!!!

[clown_13_2001]

Originally posted by paintballer8807
omg. 2 be a member of pbr u should have 2 pass an IQ test. we r turning into PBN. help!!!help!!!

And you would fail because of your grammar.:boring:

[Empyre]

Originally posted by paintballer8807
omg. 2 be a member of pbr u should have 2 pass an IQ test. we r turning into PBN. help!!!help!!!

I know my IQ and it is probably better than yours...:P

[paintballer8807]

Originally posted by Empyre


I know my IQ and it is probably better than yours...:P

this is coming from some one who spent more money on there barrel than marker. uses co2 and has a drop.

[clown_13_2001]

Originally posted by paintballer8807


this is coming from some one who spent more money on there barrel than marker. uses co2 and has a drop.

And this is coming from someone who needs to go back to third grade english class.

[ballerman]

Originally posted by clown_13_2001


And this is coming from someone who needs to go back to third grade english class.

maybe u should stop being a ***.

[clown_13_2001]

Originally posted by ballerman


maybe u should stop being a ***.

I usually don't act like that, but he tries to make fun of someone, so I do it back to him.

[BigTarget04]

Imagine is the best deal of the bunch.

[paintballer8807]

best deal doesn't mean it is the best. please don't vote for the imagin unless u think it can out perform all the other markers on the list.

[Empyre]

Originally posted by paintballer8807


this is coming from some one who spent more money on there barrel than marker. uses co2 and has a drop.

My barrel was much cheaper than you think, I use co2 cuz I get more shots per tank (out of a $30 tank), and drops are purely preference, I like mine.

O, and now Im certain my IQ is higher than yours, probably even by an integer multiplicant.

[paintballer8807]

co2 will destroy ur marker. not 2 mention if u run out of air it takes a whole 5 sec to fill. plus with the tank gauge u will never run out on the field. air is also often cheaper than co2.

[clown_13_2001]

Originally posted by paintballer8807
best deal doesn't mean it is the best. please don't vote for the imagin unless u think it can out perform all the other markers on the list.

They all perform almost identically.

co2 will destroy ur marker. not 2 mention if u run out of air it takes a whole 5 sec to fill. plus with the tank gauge u will never run out on the field. air is also often cheaper than co2.

It will only destroy your marker if you are using a true electro. And some people don't like being at fill stations after every game.;)

[paintballer8807]

id rather be at a fill station after every game then taking changes trying 2 guess when my co2 is going 2 run out. don't want 2 pay extra 2 fill and don't want 2 run out on the field. plus in the long run n2 is cheaper.

[lahiem]

does it cost nothing to fill nitro tank cuz im buying one i think its a 47/3000 or something.. dont remember is this a good sized tank?

[paintballer8807]

depends what field u r at. if i were u id get a used tank for half the price.

[clown_13_2001]

Originally posted by lahiem
does it cost nothing to fill nitro tank cuz im buying one i think its a 47/3000 or something.. dont remember is this a good sized tank?

Depends on where you go, most people will charge.

Don't get a tank under 68/3000, it just isn't worth it.

[lahiem]

but im only paying 40 for it???no?

[paintballer8807]

40 is good.

[lahiem]

lol the guy just told me its sold damnit

[paintballer8807]

use the trading forums or ask around at ur local field. :)

[Empyre]

in my area HPA fills are almost double that of Co2 :(

[lahiem]

the thing is theres only one place thats 45 mins away that can fill it but i figured i could use nitro for part of a game then switch to co2.. but i only busshball so nothing is serious...

[DarkeWolf]

you guys might check around for scuba shops for your hpa fills. the one that I go to charges 5 bucks per charge (thats the average around here) regardless of size. But....they offer a $40 fill card that gets you $55 worth of fills (11 times).
Oh, and some of them do hydrotesting too. :)

[paintballer8807]

my field has a compressor so we get free air.

[dagget007]

at the field i go to i pay 50 pesos about 5 bux and i get free air all day. :)

[DarkeWolf]

yeah, the fields that I have been to around here, includes air fills with the field fee.

[lahiem]

rather use c02 antisyphoned

[clown_13_2001]

Originally posted by lahiem
rather use c02 antisyphoned

Oh yes, since we all know a a/sed co2 tank is better than hpa.:rolleyes: :o

[lahiem]

no no im not saying its better im just saying that in my situation i have to travel almost an hour to fill up an hpa.. gas money then cost to fill up.. so its not worth it..

[clown_13_2001]

Originally posted by lahiem
no no im not saying its better im just saying that in my situation i have to travel almost an hour to fill up an hpa.. gas money then cost to fill up.. so its not worth it..

Yah, that is true. My mistake.;) You should point out these things.

[lahiem]

ya my bad :)

[paintballer8807]

the imagin is still wining yet it doesn't even come with a reg. :crazy:

[clown_13_2001]

Originally posted by paintballer8807
the imagin is still wining yet it doesn't even come with a reg. :crazy:

I will come out right now, and say I voted for the evo.:eek:

And a stock pmi reg doesn't mean much, considering for the extra price you are paying, you could probably get a torp.

[paintballer8807]

high end regs really don't do much on blowbacks. but if u did get a torp u would need 2 spend over 20 bucks on macro line and fittings.

[Empyre]

you mean $10...max.

[paintballer8807]

cost me 22. elbows were like 7 something each.

[Empyre]

o, you can get full kits for $10 (two fittings and a foot of macro)

[paintballer8807]

not at the 3 pro shops by me.

[clown_13_2001]

Originally posted by paintballer8807
high end regs really don't do much on blowbacks. but if u did get a torp u would need 2 spend over 20 bucks on macro line and fittings.

If so, then why would lower end regs do much?

A torp on a piranha is going to be more consistant than the pmi reg on the piranha.

[CoolT]

Originally posted by paintballer8807
high end regs really don't do much on blowbacks.

:rolleyes:

[paintballer8807]

Originally posted by clown_13_2001


If so, then why would lower end regs do much?

A torp on a piranha is going to be more consistant than the pmi reg on the piranha.


a blow back will never be as consistent as a timmy, dm5, ect. in a blowback the spring is controlling the amount of air that propels the ball. a spring isn't going to be that consistent. i noticed that my wgp egro reg really isn't that more cosistant that my pmi reg. actually my wgp reg gets more consistent at higher bps. what i have noticed from my experience is that i wouldn't buy a new reg unless you could get a deal on a used reg. its not worth it to go out there and spend 90 bucks on a cp reg.

[clown_13_2001]

Originally posted by paintballer8807



a blow back will never be as consistent as a timmy, dm5, ect. in a blowback the spring is controlling the amount of air that propels the ball. a spring isn't going to be that consistent. i noticed that my wgp egro reg really isn't that more cosistant that my pmi reg. actually my wgp reg gets more consistent at higher bps. what i have noticed from my experience is that i wouldn't buy a new reg unless you could get a deal on a used reg. its not worth it to go out there and spend 90 bucks on a cp reg.

I know someone who will disagree with you, and I will link him here. ;)

A cp reg is 60, not 90.:rolleyes:

[paintballer8807]

at my proshop they are 90.

[Empyre]

well you've got one hell of a crappy pro-shop now don't ya?

[punk_rocker543]

at my proshop they sell products for more than the MSRP of the company, even though they get the products for at least 25% off.

[paintballer8807]

all pro shops are like that. if they didn't charge extra they couldn't keep the place open. they can't compete with the Internet on prices.

[CoolT]

Originally posted by paintballer8807
a blow back will never be as consistent as a timmy, dm5, ect. in a blowback the spring is controlling the amount of air that propels the ball.

Actually the spring isn't the issue, every gun I can think of uses a spring for at least one operate, whether it be the reg, LPR, valve pin, hammer, recocking, etc. The main reason from my experience why blowbacks are a little less consistent is that they have tons of blowback.

Another reason that could be a cause is all blowbacks have a consistency flaw. In most high end guns the air is always flowing one way, never any forks in its path. Air either goes to the valve to propel the ball, the LPR, or routed 1 way through the solenoid (mostly after the LPR). In a blowback once the air reaches the valve it has 2 choices, go back to recock the hammer, or up to propel the ball. There is nothing regulating how much air goes up and back except for simply air pressure differences. This can lead to different amounts of pressure applied to each shot. How much does this negatively affect the gun? I don't know, we would probably need to do extensive testing to find out. But it most likely contributes at least slightly to decrease the consistency blowbacks.

Originally posted by paintballer8807
a spring isn't going to be that consistent. i noticed that my wgp egro reg really isn't that more cosistant that my pmi reg.

I've noticed differently. And yes, I've used both regs.

Originally posted by paintballer8807
actually my wgp reg gets more consistent at higher bps. what i have noticed from my experience is that i wouldn't buy a new reg unless you could get a deal on a used reg. its not worth it to go out there and spend 90 bucks on a cp reg.

Regs are extremely important on any gun imo. I think that contribute more to the gun than any other upgradable part of a marker. Good consistency can be achieved with even the cheapest of blowbacks with a reg. Btw, like Clown said, you're way off on that price and it's one of the best regs.

[paintballer8807]

ok. my pro shop is selling them for 90 bucks. if u don't believe me then pm me and ill give u there number.

the barrel is the probably contributes more than the reg. maybe u forgot about that our were considering it an accessory.

the barrel its self and paint will also affect the consistency. if you don't believe me look in the barrel ultimate sticky and find the warpig test. basically it shows that a small bore barrel and large bore paint are the most consistent. the only problem is that it is not to accurate.

[CoolT]

Can you give me a half-way decent reply? :P

[clown_13_2001]

Originally posted by paintballer8807
ok. my pro shop is selling them for 90 bucks. if u don't believe me then pm me and ill give u there number.

the barrel is the probably contributes more than the reg. maybe u forgot about that our were considering it an accessory.

the barrel its self and paint will also affect the consistency. if you don't believe me look in the barrel ultimate sticky and find the warpig test. basically it shows that a small bore barrel and large bore paint are the most consistent. the only problem is that it is not to accurate.

The reg will help with EFFICIENCY alot more than the barrel will. ;)

[paintballer8807]

Originally posted by clown_13_2001


The reg will help with EFFICIENCY alot more than the barrel will. ;)


:eek: omg!!!!!! who would have guessed :eek:

[Hsuve]

Originally posted by paintballer8807



a blow back will never be as consistent as a timmy, dm5, ect. in a blowback the spring is controlling the amount of air that propels the ball. a spring isn't going to be that consistent. i noticed that my wgp egro reg really isn't that more cosistant that my pmi reg. actually my wgp reg gets more consistent at higher bps. what i have noticed from my experience is that i wouldn't buy a new reg unless you could get a deal on a used reg. its not worth it to go out there and spend 90 bucks on a cp reg.

Why wouldn't it be as consistent? So... you're saying that because springs aren't consistent that it will cause inconsistency? What do you think is in your regulator behind that piston? That's right. A spring. And if you have a spring behind your valve pin as well as a spring in your HPR and a spring in your LPR, in your argument wouldn't that cause most high end guns to be more inconsistent than those blowbacks? Heck, some regulators have two springs in them! Oh, think of the horrid chronograph results you should get!!

[Hsuve]

Originally posted by CoolT


Actually the spring isn't the issue, every gun I can think of uses a spring for at least one operate, whether it be the reg, LPR, valve pin, hammer, recocking, etc. The main reason from my experience why blowbacks are a little less consistent is that they have tons of blowback.
I wouldn't necessarily say that's true. Some blowbacks even achieve suction. And as I'm sure you're well aware of, many "high end" guns also have blowback. In particular I've seen many Angels blow paint right back up the feed tube to cover those old school Revolution hoppers full of chopped paint.

Another reason that could be a cause is all blowbacks have a consistency flaw. In most high end guns the air is always flowing one way, never any forks in its path. Air either goes to the valve to propel the ball, the LPR, or routed 1 way through the solenoid (mostly after the LPR). In a blowback once the air reaches the valve it has 2 choices, go back to recock the hammer, or up to propel the ball. There is nothing regulating how much air goes up and back except for simply air pressure differences. This can lead to different amounts of pressure applied to each shot. How much does this negatively affect the gun? I don't know, we would probably need to do extensive testing to find out. But it most likely contributes at least slightly to decrease the consistency blowbacks.
I wouldn't know the answer to that either. However, when you have a certain main spring tension and a valve spring tension, I would assume that each shot will be similar to the next if all other settings were kept the same. I wouldn't really say that blowbacks are horridly inconsistent either. I've heard of cases where people get +/-1FPS over the chronograph with their Spyder. Then again, I've also heard that story with every other gun, and it always prove to be false on the actual field. All in all, I don't believe in such chronograph results and I wouldn't hold that against Spyders either.

[paintballer8807]

Originally posted by Hsuve


Why wouldn't it be as consistent? So... you're saying that because springs aren't consistent that it will cause inconsistency? What do you think is in your regulator behind that piston? That's right. A spring. And if you have a spring behind your valve pin as well as a spring in your HPR and a spring in your LPR, in your argument wouldn't that cause most high end guns to be more inconsistent than those blowbacks? Heck, some regulators have two springs in them! Oh, think of the horrid chronograph results you should get!!

the spring i am talking about and the spring you are talking about are to totally different springs doing totally different jobs. you can not compare them.

[Hsuve]

Really? They're different springs? They look awfully similar to me. Both springs look like compression springs. You push it one side, let go, and it returns to the original position. Please, do feel free to tell me why they can't be compared.

[paintballer8807]

Originally posted by Hsuve
Really? They're different springs? They look awfully similar to me. Both springs look like compression springs. You push it one side, let go, and it returns to the original position. Please, do feel free to tell me why they can't be compared.

i am talking about the main spring. not the valve spring. you are talking about the spring in the reg. now i don't know a whole lot about regs so here is a pic (http://www.ottersccustoms.com/works.html). it shows the to different springs. one is very small and has a constant supply of air against it. like i said i am no reg expert but the spring in the reg really doesn't move much. it just stays there and only lets a certain amount of air threw depending on what it is set at. the other spring is about 4 in. long. in is compressed into about 2 in. when the sear is released it travels 2 more in. with a large weight on it and strikes a pin witch is connected to another spring. air comes out and blows it back into position. now for it to be consistent it would have to more that 2in. the same exact way and move that weight that same exact way every time the sear was released. now this spring may have to travel that 2in. over a dozen times a second and travel back that 2in. now there and back bust be exactly the same to make it consistent. 2in. there and 2in. back 12 times a sec. is a total of 48 in. a sec. at that rate i can't see how it can contract and expand the same. now the regs spring isn't contracting and expanding 12 times a sec. with a total of 48 in. like i said i am not a reg expert but they seem to be totally different.

[Hsuve]

Originally posted by paintballer8807


i am talking about the main spring. not the valve spring. you are talking about the spring in the reg. now i don't know a whole lot about regs so here is a pic (http://www.ottersccustoms.com/works.html). it shows the to different springs. one is very small and has a constant supply of air against it. like i said i am no reg expert but the spring in the reg really doesn't move much. it just stays there and only lets a certain amount of air threw depending on what it is set at. the other spring is about 4 in. long. in is compressed into about 2 in. when the sear is released it travels 2 more in. with a large weight on it and strikes a pin witch is connected to another spring. air comes out and blows it back into position. now for it to be consistent it would have to more that 2in. the same exact way and move that weight that same exact way every time the sear was released. now this spring may have to travel that 2in. over a dozen times a second and travel back that 2in. now there and back bust be exactly the same to make it consistent. 2in. there and 2in. back 12 times a sec. is a total of 48 in. a sec. at that rate i can't see how it can contract and expand the same. now the regs spring isn't contracting and expanding 12 times a sec. with a total of 48 in. like i said i am not a reg expert but they seem to be totally different.
Ummm... Both springs in the regulator move with each shot. And yes, those springs control the output pressure of the regulator. With the example of the Bob Long Torpedo, what do you think happens when you turn up the pressure? That's right, the bottom of the screw pushes on a disk, which pushes on the piston spring. It increases the tension in that spring and thus requires more pressure to build up and push the piston back down so that the regulator pin can push up against the regulator seat to create a seal. You argue that blowbacks cannot be consistent because it uses a main spring to control the amount of air to fire the gun, and also because those springs simply aren't consistent. Well, guess what? The consistency of the springs in the regulator directly affect how consistent the output of those regulators are. And there you go, consistency sure does depend on those springs. And what were you talking about the sear being released and all that? I had no clue as to what you were referring to with the different inches and all...

[CoolT]

Why do you thinks blowbacks can cycle so fast? Springs are fast and consistent. Every gun uses a expanding and contracting spring some place or another (yes, the reg too).

As to my comment about blowbacks having a lot of blowback, I meant more with high pressure blowbacks. The problem can be fixed by lowering the pressure and/or a better bolt most but it's still a very common imo. Most blowbacks don't come LP stock and the bolts are usually not tight sealing.

[paintballer8807]

well the reg spring still has a consistent amount of air pushing against it and it doesn't travel 4in. with every pull of the trigger. the main spring also has a weight on it. i am not saying that blowbacks are not consistent at all but they are less consistent than a pneumatic. there are many other factors to make the marker consistent if you are talking about velocity though. the barrel probably would make the biggest difference.(having small paint and an extremely large bore size.) i am not trying to fight you but imo if the main spring was 100% consistent a dm5 would have one.

[Hsuve]

Originally posted by CoolT
As to my comment about blowbacks having a lot of blowback, I meant more with high pressure blowbacks. The problem can be fixed by lowering the pressure and/or a better bolt most but it's still a very common imo. Most blowbacks don't come LP stock and the bolts are usually not tight sealing.

High pressure, low pressure, I have seen no difference between such guns and blowback. Although the old school Angels were generally "higher pressure" than the new Speeds and all, they still were set at a considerably lower operating pressure than the high pressure stock Spyders. However, blowback can still exist at that stage. Autocockers can have blowback as well depending on how they're timed, regardless of whether or not it's low pressure. My Dark Intimidator sure had blowback, and it was quite obvious when I started breaking paint then finding my Reloader B getting pretty darn yellow at the feedneck area.

Originally posted by paintballer8807
well the reg spring still has a consistent amount of air pushing against it and it doesn't travel 4in. with every pull of the trigger. the main spring also has a weight on it. i am not saying that blowbacks are not consistent at all but they are less consistent than a pneumatic. there are many other factors to make the marker consistent if you are talking about velocity though. the barrel probably would make the biggest difference.(having small paint and an extremely large bore size.) i am not trying to fight you but imo if the main spring was 100% consistent a dm5 would have one.
The only way the regulator spring will have a constant amount of air pushing against it is if and only if the spring itself is consistent in itself. Only then will it allow the same amount of pressure each time before the regulator pin seals. Again, the main spring, valve spring, and both regulator springs are compression springs. If you are to say that the main spring cannot be consistent to push each shot through, how are you to say that the regulator spring is more consistent? And how do you know that electropneumatic guns don't have issues with their own settings? The dwell time on many electropneumatic guns are yet another thing that affect how much air goes through. How can you be sure that the voltage of each shot is consistent enough so that the ram goes forward for the exact same time as the previous shot? Or how do you know that the ram, when returning to the original position after being fired, doesn't vent differently and thus perhaps causing a gap between the bolt and ram under higher rates of fire? Chances are you don't know all this. All that will affect electropneumatic guns and their velocity. I can just say that those things will cause them to be more inconsistent than blowbacks. I trust springs, because they do quite some work in all my guns, electropneumatic or blowback. Do you think the DM5 is the perfect gun? I would hardly say so. If there was a perfect gun out there, every gun would start being based similarly to how the "perfect" gun operates. Have you been around long enough to have been in the "age of the Autococker"? It wasn't too long ago, but back then 'Cockers had crazy resale values. People believed that they were more accurate, consistent, blah, blah, than everything else out there. That's right, consistency was among those traits that supposedly held 'Cockers above the rest. And what do you think pushes that hammer in the 'Cocker? Yet another spring.

[paintballer8807]

i still say that the main spring isn't going to move back and forth the same exact way every time. since it is not exactly the same every time it will send a slightly different amount of air threw the bolt. this is one of many things what will affect the amount of air that travels into the bolt. just because the amount of air that travels threw the bolt is a little different doesn't mean that the velocity will be affected much. there are many other factors that determine that.

[Hsuve]

Okay, so the ram and bolt in an Intimidator won't move back and forth the exact same way each time due to small factors as well. So now we can rule Intimidators out as being a consistent gun. And since compression springs aren't going to move back and forth the exact same way, that means that spring pack in the Hyper 2 regulator won't compress the exact same way, causing more/less pressure to go through the gun in comparison to the previous shot. That rules that DM5/4 out as being a consistent gun as well. Yes, we can all say what we want to believe, but what actually happens is sometimes different.

[paintballer8807]

Originally posted by Hsuve
Okay, so the ram and bolt in an Intimidator won't move back and forth the exact same way each time due to small factors as well. So now we can rule Intimidators out as being a consistent gun. And since compression springs aren't going to move back and forth the exact same way, that means that spring pack in the Hyper 2 regulator won't compress the exact same way, causing more/less pressure to go through the gun in comparison to the previous shot. That rules that DM5/4 out as being a consistent gun as well. Yes, we can all say what we want to believe, but what actually happens is sometimes different.


now you got it.

[clown_13_2001]

Originally posted by paintballer8807



now you got it.

Wow, just wow. So you just said no marker is consistent at all just because of a few springs here and there. You really need to get your act together, 8807.:rolleyes:

[paintballer8807]

lol. it all depends on your definition of consistent and what part of the marker is consistent.

[BoneDaddy68]

Going a little off topic...how is the Ion? And has anyone gotten new details on the 05 BKO? (release dates, gun features, etc...)

[clown_13_2001]

Originally posted by BoneDaddy68
Going a little off topic...how is the Ion? And has anyone gotten new details on the 05 BKO? (release dates, gun features, etc...)

Pbreview for a reason. ;)

And also search for everything, it does wonders.