98c customize at your own expense

[Mastodon83]

now before anyone gets upset i'm not dissing the marker or tippmann. it's know as the most customizable paintball marker on the market, however it's a very basic gun so the upgrades are gonna cost ya$ ok i'll run down the cost of upgrading it to a stock spyder.
Double trig: 25.00
Velocity Adjuster: 15.00
Response Trig: 79.00
X-chamber: 30.00
Drop Forward: 30.00
Gun: 139.00
(going a little cheap on some of the stuff and not including tax or shipping) for a grand total of: 318.00

[Coenen]

Originally posted by Mastodon83
now before anyone gets upset i'm not dissing the marker or tippmann. it's know as the most customizable paintball marker on the market, however it's a very basic gun so the upgrades are gonna cost ya$ ok i'll run down the cost of upgrading it to a stock spyder.Which one? There are about umpteeen million different Spyders, some better than others
Double trig: 25.00
Velocity Adjuster: 15.00 Last time I chronoed I seem to remember finding my stock velocity adjuster right where I left it, I also remember that when I turned the screw it adjusted the velocity. Tippmann's marker is not built to be adjusted effectively by spring tension
Response Trig: 79.00 Or I could tune up my double trigger for about $25 and get comparable performance while remaining tourney legal(RT isn't)
X-chamber: 30.00 Or you could anti-siphon the CO2 tank for half that and get the same effect. Last time I checked, stock Spyder X-chambers were crap anyway.
Drop Forward: 30.00 The Spyder's is small and generally useless, not to mention that some people don't even want a drop in the first place
Gun: 139.00
(going a little cheap on some of the stuff and not including tax or shipping) for a grand total of: 318.00 Added in some stuff for truth.
You forgot a few key points, all of the parts for the Tippmann would be quality, at the same time, they are a great many of the parts that get replaced on Spyders.
Nice try my man, nice try.

[ghilliesnipe]

I see some truth to both the argument and counter-argument. Lets just say that a spyder definitly comes stock with stuff like a double trigger, RVA, a (crappy) expansion chamber, a small drop forward, an e-trigger on many of them(which may cause more problems than it "solves"), all of which you would have to buy as upgrades for the tippmann(with the exception of the custom pro).

You pay for it with having to replace orings more often and sometimes cupseals and having to oil and clean the spyder more often. For a smart dilligent newbie, I would reluctantly recommend the Spyder. For the lazier, less technically minded(I didnt say dumber:) newbie I would recommend the Tippmann.

Ive tried both the Spyder xtra and the 98c out of the box, and I will tell you those "xtras" you get with thw Xtra dont really do much, if anything, for its performance over the 98c out of the box, but they are comparable and the Xtra is more economical(I didnt say cheaper:).

This is gonna turn into another long "Tippmann vs Spyder" flame war unless it gets closed.

[travsstuff]

wow, u people need to smoke some magic draguns and quit fighting.

Tippmann: Gun for people who like to not take care of their guns. Good for woods and scenario ballers.

Spyder: Great for everyone, endlessly customizeable, use it stock and when u get money upgrade it. And when u have the extra 400 lying around under yer bed build yourself that spimmy. Spyders are also easy to maintain and fix right on the spot. Put a t-board in it and do some basic mods and you'll have a very nice local tourney level gun.

both good guns.

spyder wins

[Matt_tippy]

I have a 98 custom and i want to customize it. I don,t want to spend lots of money and i want it ro look nice Can someone give me advice.:)

[Coenen]

Ghille, when/if this gets outta hand I'll close it.

Matt, Read the ultimate sticky, hang around and read a few more threads, read marker reviews, use the search function. That should get you off to a wonderful start.

Travs, no one's fighting...yet, although I do find myself strangely in the mood for once. I'll just say that I'm annoyed that this kid had the gall to come in here and start a useless thread with blatant bias. I'd not be upset if he had at least made an honest attempt to be objective.

[travsstuff]

Originally posted by Coenen


Travs, no one's fighting...yet, although I do find myself strangely in the mood for once. I'll just say that I'm annoyed that this kid had the gall to come in here and start a useless thread with blatant bias. I'd not be upset if he had at least made an honest attempt to be objective.

very tru, the never ending tippy vs. spyder debate. Everyone has their own sides and thats the way itll always be. All we can do is present both sides and let them choose.

Mastedon, it was kinda rude to spam up this forum. We have threads like this already.

[xavier678]

hmm...lest take a look at this.
Originally posted by Mastodon83
now before anyone gets upset i'm not dissing the marker or tippmann. it's know as the most customizable paintball marker on the market, however it's a very basic gun so the upgrades are gonna cost ya$ ok i'll run down the cost of upgrading it to a stock spyder.

Double trig: 25.00 try $17.50
Velocity Adjuster: 15.00i forgot that its impossible to change the velocity of a stock tippmann.
Response Trig: 79.00oh yeah, i also forgot spyders come with response triggers stock
X-chamber: 30.00well, i guess you WOULD need one if the valve on a 98custom ever froze up.
Drop Forward: 30.00those spyder 'drop forwards' are definately not worth $30
Gun: 139.00


simply put, you cannot compare any of the things you attempt to above. the electronic trigger frame on an E-spyder can not be matched to in any way a tippmann RT. i have shot cases upon cases of paint through my rt and it looks like new. having worked at a field where a TON of kids have e-spyders, i know pretty well how reliable they are (and no, its not a good thing). so, wanting a reliable spyder i will have to either get an e-spyder and replace the frame with an aftermarket one or buy a mech and do the same. tippmanns have an extremely short stock trigger pull and it can be made even shorter without having to go through the whole e-frame deal.

your comparison doesnt make sense and completely excludes anything to do with reliability. stock tippmanns are not that bad of a deal. esp. for entry level players.



Originally posted by travsstuff

Tippmann: Gun for people who like to not take care of their guns.
that really doesnt make sense. i like being able to loan my gun to my little brother to play with and to know he isnt going to break anything.

[Mastodon83]

ok look dont get all upset, just so u know own a 98c and i have no problem with it. the point i'm trying to make is, that a spyder imagine for example comes with all the things i listed as upgrades (or something similar). no u may not want some of these things but dont u thinks it's a better deal that if u dont want it to take it off as opposed to buying it? no their stuff may not be the best of anything u can buy but it was at least included and u can buy an imagine for less than a 98c.

[jakeiscared]

These 2 guns are for completely different people

Spyder does have a lot more maintenance, more risk of breaking down. But it can definitely be far more upgraded then a tippmann..

Tippman wont break down, less maintenance, less performance.. and why do they say tippmann is the most customizable gun out there? Im pretty sure a spyder has more upgrades and im a sure other guns such as a impulse has more upgrades

[Coenen]

Originally posted by Mastodon83
ok look dont get all upset, just so u know own a 98c and i have no problem with it. the point i'm trying to make is, that a spyder imagine for example comes with all the things i listed as upgrades (or something similar). no u may not want some of these things but dont u thinks it's a better deal that if u dont want it to take it off as opposed to buying it? no their stuff may not be the best of anything u can buy but it was at least included and u can buy an imagine for less than a 98c. It comes with all the things you listed stock, but I think you misunderstood something. Most guys with Spyders REPLACE that stuff with the same aftermarket stuff you would buy for your Tippmann. Why does it matter that they get it stock if they're going to repalce it later?

The Cocker BTW, is the most customizable marker on the market.

[Hmmm Donut]

Originally posted by jakeiscared
These 2 guns are for completely different people

Spyder does have a lot more maintenance, more risk of breaking down. But it can definitely be far more upgraded then a tippmann..

Tippman wont break down, less maintenance, less performance.. and why do they say tippmann is the most customizable gun out there? Im pretty sure a spyder has more upgrades and im a sure other guns such as a impulse has more upgrades

Not to throw flame on the fire but tippmanns are not indestructible. They do break down after a while as does every other marker.

[yakitori]

or just buy an ion (ewww did I say that)

No seriously. Smart parts may have done some bad things for the sport, but for 299 breakbeam eyes, 17bps, spool valve design, compactness. If you really want a tourney level gun on a budget, get one of those.

[travsstuff]

Originally posted by yakitori
or just buy an ion (ewww did I say that)

No seriously. Smart parts may have done some bad things for the sport, but for 299 breakbeam eyes, 17bps, spool valve design, compactness. If you really want a tourney level gun on a budget, get one of those.

yeah........wait............NO.........seriously let SP and others work out the bugs with these. Stick with what u have this season, and next season buy a 2nd generation of the ion.

[ghilliesnipe]

Originally posted by yakitori
or just buy an ion (ewww did I say that)

No seriously. Smart parts may have done some bad things for the sport, but for 299 breakbeam eyes, 17bps, spool valve design, compactness. If you really want a tourney level gun on a budget, get one of those.

Im looking at that or a wrath myself. I cant believe Im finally thinking of going electro. :blush:


Back to the subject (sorta), I think Tippmann, Spyder and all sear trippers might have a run for their money if these new cheap electros turn out to be good, durable and reliable. Im waiting to see.....maybe by this summer.

[LightStep]

I just bought my 98c around Christmas time and the first time I took it out was for woodsball at my friends cottage in Ontario. The temperature was about -15 C. We played for 3-4 hours in a foot in a half of snow (my friend has an A5). This is another key difference in the spyder vs. tippy debate. Would you take your spyder with it's bells and whistles out in that kind of weather, diving all over the place crawling in snow not worrying about damage? Maybe that doesen't matter for some people but for me that was the difference.

[Hmmm Donut]

Originally posted by LightStep
I just bought my 98c around Christmas time and the first time I took it out was for woodsball at my friends cottage in Ontario. The temperature was about -15 C. We played for 3-4 hours in a foot in a half of snow (my friend has an A5). This is another key difference in the spyder vs. tippy debate. Would you take your spyder with it's bells and whistles out in that kind of weather, diving all over the place crawling in snow not worrying about damage? Maybe that doesen't matter for some people but for me that was the difference.

Um I don't think could weather will affect a paintbal gun as long as you are using HPA. You are screwing up your gun by screwing co2 into it,

[Kurama]

I disagree with tons of posts in this thread, but the general consensus seems to be what I agree with.

However, Tippmanns and Spyders use the same materials for internals and the same O-rings. Why would the spyder need new ones? Spyders' tolerances suck, but there's nothing sandpaper can't solve. Most people polish tippmann internals anyways, too.

It's stereotypical, but spyders are just as durable internally. Idiots just tend to own them. They are deemed less durable because scratches on the colored anno show better than on a tippmann. As an example, some idiot stole some of my paint so I took his spyder apart while he was in the bathroom and my team and I shot about 300 rounds of paint on it, including the internals. We put it back together and where he left it by the time he got back (well, it was pink and yellow now instead of green) and after brushing it off, it cycled fine. Durable, huh?

[Mastodon83]

Originally posted by Coenen
It comes with all the things you listed stock, but I think you misunderstood something. Most guys with Spyders REPLACE that stuff with the same aftermarket stuff you would buy for your Tippmann. Why does it matter that they get it stock if they're going to repalce it later?

The Cocker BTW, is the most customizable marker on the market.

there is a BIG differance when it comes to not having it, and replacing it. unless us can afford to buy all your upgrades at once you are going to have to buy a piece here and there until u get it how u like it. so while i'm in the process of upgrading my marker i at least have something there until i can replace it with something better.

[Cadet2005]

Mastodon, I have a questioN: what is better? Are we talking woodsball, recball, or tourney level? A guy who plays once a year or one who plays religiously every week he has the cash to? You are assuming a lot of things in that statement and I think that is what is getting you in trouble.

I play woodsball when I do get the opportunity to play, but I am also a college student so that means I don't get an opportunity to play all that often. I have put my 98C through heck and back for three years and have never felt like replacing it. I have outfitted it that it fits my style of play, going from an MP feel to a rifle feel without sacrificing performance. Do I want a double trigger? No, I can't stand the things. Expansion chamber? I live in TX, not really any need to have one as far as I can discern (3 years and no problems).

In short, before you assume thata gun is inferior because it doesn't include different things and isn't cheaper, remember that it isn't all looks that go into a gun and performance is the player, not the gun.

[travsstuff]

Originally posted by Hmmm Donut


Not to throw flame on the fire but tippmanns are not indestructible. They do break down after a while as does every other marker.

tru dat. I play with some guys every sunday. Most of them own tippmanns. Me, i have my trusty spyder. Well anyway, about half of them never show up because they dont maintain their guns and stuff is always going wrong and they are having to order new parts and such. The only thing on a spyder thatcan go wrong is a blown oring or cupseal all of which i have i my gearbag. THat is unless u drop ur gun in a creek or run it over.

anyway Donut is right

[Mastodon83]

1st off y am i in trouble :laugh: jk anyway i'm not knocking the tippmann it's a good reliable gun. my only beef with it is that it costs so dang much for upgrades. and the only point i was trying to make was tippmann could trow u a bit of a bone when it comes to features. in your case playing woods you dont always need speed if u can get the drop on somebody, but when ppl have double trigs or auto's unless your doc holiday it's hard to keep up when u have a lot paint trown your way.
mostly i'm talking to the guy who plays semi reg.(at least 2 times a month) and upgrades his gun maybe once every month or so. and seeing as how those extras are already there there is now money for barrels, eltro loaders, so on so forth. so with the same 200 or however many dollars he was gonna use on the 98 he already has a gun decked out and all that has to be done is upgrade what he's got

[TippmannPhreak]

Okay, let's go over this.

Vertical adapter- $20.00 <----- A lot of Spyder's need this, too. And $20.00 isn't expensive.

Expansion Chamber- Most are around $30.00, which I also don't consider expensive.

Double Trigger- $20.00 at most. Definitely not expensive.

R/T- If you can shell out the cash, $80.00, it's well worth the investment. Pricey, yes. Expensive, no. And it's not a must buy upgrade, so you can cross it off of your list.

E-Bolt- Yes, this is expensive. But, I can shoot plenty fast with my mech double trigger. So you can cross this off your list, too.

Barrels- The cost is the same with any other gun, so cross this off, too.

Rocket Cock- $20.00, not expensive. But I do consider it necessary to cover the cocking slot.

Shadow Cocking- If you want flush cocking, this is a nice upgrade, and it's not horribly expensive. Maybe $40.00.

Tippmann upgrades, regardless of what you think, are not that expensive. Anyways, you end up replacing most of the stuff that comes stock on a Spyder with aftermarket upgrades anyway. So, all in all, you end up shelling out as much for a Spyder as you do for a Tippmann.

Conclusion- Neither company is better when you're comparing low-end blowbacks, get over it. Now, if you want to compare high-end guns, I'll debate about that. But when it comes to blowbacks, they're all about the same.

[senghing27]

Amen to that!!

[buzzboy]

First off please don't flame me. I probabley wont read this thread again to see it any way. Here it goes. Las weakend I played against Tippmans, Spyder Clones and a Trilodgy. By the end of our 4 hours of playing the only guns that were still shooting were my P/C, the cocker and one of the spyder clones. The only person with a real spyder( a fenix) had his batteries crap out on him( he had charged them to full the night before. One kid with a Tippmann 98C had his velocity turned all the way up and a half full 12oz tank but the balls weren't breaking at close range. The other 98C got grimed up and the second spyder clone was leaking by the cocking knob. Just my 2 cents.

[ghilliesnipe]

People, take a look at the custom pro basic.

It has a double trigger, a drop forward, a decent stock barrel, all for $20 more than the 98c. At least thats part way there. The egrip version is another $80. No its not as cheap as a spyder, and at that point, I would just go get a spart parts ion for another $50 more, but the custom pro basic sounds like a better deal than the 98c.

[Mastodon83]

ok lets go over THIS again,

i was comparing the stock 98 with the stock imagine key word being stock

X-chamber: spyder, stock tipp: 20-30
double trig: spyder, stock tipp: 20
electronics: spyder, stock tipp: you have a couple of options but it's still gonna cost u at least 80
barrels where not even on my list
cocking is just how rough u are with ur gun, personally i have never had large amounts of dirt get in that way.

now listen closely
Point 1: the spyder has more stock features than the tippmann, and i could go to actionvillage and get an imagine for 30 dollars cheaper than a tippy.

Point 2: even if i replace all my stock features
A. i wouldn't have to worry about that for a while
B. would still come out a little cheaper seeing as how my gun costs less
C. be used to the features so i don't have to change my playing style much if at all

Point 3: if u play woodsball your tippmann wouldn't need much and u could be happy with it. but if u even dream of speedball, you will need to get some firepower or prepare to live in the dead box. so the $200 you spend extra gettin your marker up to par you could already have bought a new barrel, a elctro loader, and a case of paint with that same $200

as far as these upgrades being expensive it's really a matter fo opinion i'm guessing either you have a good job or your parents are picking up the tab, either way this can be costly for some players and the whole purpose of this post was cost efficiency. basically the way i look at it if you wanna replace the x-chamber and whatnot on a spyder it's time you had a higher end gun anyway, so instead of having all this money sunk into a tippy you have a little more cash to think about buying something in a whole new league.

[IfItWoUlDmAtTeR]

Buzz your friend with the 98c probably had his ball detent in backwards

[travsstuff]

Originally posted by IfItWoUlDmAtTeR
Buzz your friend with the 98c probably had his ball detent in backwards

or shooting co2 w/o an a/s tube reg or xchamber, which is horrible to do on any gun anyway by the way

[RandyTheNiceBum]

Arg! Why is everyone babbling about expansion chambers?

The 98c valve system is pretty amazing, it can run off of straight liquid and most shoot fine without a expansion chamber in the first place. Why has no one raised the question of just buying an anti-siphon kit. It is roughly about $10 and works just as well as an expansion chamber if used correctly. Any gun can benefit from this upgrade. Besides it is dirt cheap compared to most other upgrades.

[Coenen]

This thread has officially overstayed it's welcome.

Feel Free to PM me with arguments for reopening, just make sure they're pretty convincing first. Trust me, it is going to take A LOT of convincing for me to bring this one back.

Closed.

-Coenen

[Mastodon83]

ok i got an idea, coenen you really dont live all that far from me (i live in oxford, al) and i come to altanta every now and then what do u say we meet at a field and put our guns against each other? no i'm not calling u out and tryin to be like "you suck and i'm gonna whup your arse" just a fun day of paintball, ha ha we can even split a case of paint. anyway if your interested lemme know

[Coenen]

I thought I closed this. Stupid late nights. I'll PM you.