05 BKO or ION

[Hobosk1115]

Which would you reccomend the ION or the 05 BKO. The ION is cheaper but ive been hearing great things about the 05 BKO. Is the BKO that much better or are they about equal. Which is better for woodsball?

[BunkerBuddy_666]

I would go wiht the 05 BKO. Im not shure if the Ion has eyes, but the BKO does.

[wablez]

We have a lot of threads like this. Run a search and you'll will find your answer.;)

Just wait till they are both released and read some reviews other players have made.

also, Any marker can be used in the woods and be called a woodsball gun. Although a darker color is recomended on the marker.

[Pantelones]

:banghead:

[RainTreeBoy]

The 05 Bko isn't out yet. It looks pretty promising, but just wait.

[Everlight389]

Dear Lord, please not another one. Do your research and you will find the undisputable answer.

[BunkerBuddy_666]

ok guys, theres no need for all of this flamming.

[slushii]

Ion, now close the thread.

[Mr Murderdoll89]

Murderdoll reads another Ion/BKO thread:
:gnasher: >>>:censored:
Then ANOTHER:
:computer: >>>:banghead:

Bangs head too much:tombstne:

:yell:

Ion fo sho. ICD's aren't exactly reliable.

[RainTreeBoy]

THE BKO IS NOT OUT YET

How can you compare the Ion to a gun that hasn't even been released? From the info given to us, it should be a good gun.

Edit- And let's not start with the issue of reliability. I know people who have owned SP guns and switched over to ICD because they weren't reliable or didn't like them. People are always saying how they see shockers and imps go down at the field. The truth is this can be said about both guns, so this arguement, as true as one side may be, is never really reliable.

[Everlight389]

Originally posted by RainTreeBoy
THE BKO IS NOT OUT YET

How can you compare the Ion to a gun that hasn't even been released? From the info given to us, it should be a good gun.

Because a spool valve will always be better than a spring return.

[RainTreeBoy]

Originally posted by Everlight389


Because a spool valve will always be better than a spring return.
You keep saying that, and while thats true for recoil and whatnot, the BKO will most likely have better efficiency and is capped at a higher speed.

[Everlight389]

Originally posted by RainTreeBoy

You keep saying that, and while thats true for recoil and whatnot, the BKO will most likely have better efficiency and is capped at a higher speed.

It allows the gun to be a single tube design, faster with small upgrades (no need for a whole new solenoid/RAM assembly like in the BKO) and lighter. And the list goes on.

[RainTreeBoy]

Originally posted by Everlight389


It allows the gun to be a single tube design, faster with small upgrades (no need for a whole new solenoid/RAM assembly like in the BKO) and lighter. And the list goes on.
Wait, didn't you catch the part about the BKO being faster than the Ion? Thats stock, not with upgrades.

Edit: I'm also not sure about the Ion being lighter than the BKO. From the reviews of the Ion, I was reading that it was about 2.2 lbs. Thats about what the older generation BKOs were, it would be lighter without the tray I believe.

[stlyesom]

Just wait until the 05 BKO comes out.....

If you need a gun now, get the ION:idea:

[DarkKnight1312]

Originally posted by RainTreeBoy

You keep saying that, and while thats true for recoil and whatnot, the BKO will most likely have better efficiency and is capped at a higher speed.

We have all day air for efficiency problems. But when rob shot his ion he was in target for 1200 shots off a 68/45. And the bko will probably be capped at about 18 bps b/c of its ****ty spring return design.SO thats 1 bps higher then the current ion cap, but with a new bolt (ndz is already making one) the ion cap will be raised.

[RainTreeBoy]

Actually it's mechanically capped at more around 20bps.

[DarkKnight1312]

Originally posted by RainTreeBoy
Actually it's mechanically capped at more around 20bps.

I remember seeing that the 04 bko is physically capped at 18 bps. And unless icd made some major spring returrn modification (im not sure if thats even possible) to raise the bps. The new bko will probably be about the same.

[RainTreeBoy]

ICD says 18 BPS. People here and at ICD-O have done their own tests and found it's mechanically capped at around 20. I don't know why ICD would say 18, but it has been found to shoot at 20.

[Everlight389]

ION is essentially a shocker with less o-rings. It is probably capable with a new bolt and board of reaching 25 balls per second. BKO is capped by the spring return at 18 (by the board) and mechanically a little higher. To upgrade the BKO you need a new humphrey solenoid ($65) and a RAM ($100) along with a new board ($100). With that much, you could have spent over $300 on the Ion making it a kick-*** lightweight marker while the BKO will still be tall and fugly.

The Ion can also reach 1400 shots off a 68/45, while the BKO may get 1000. And the BKO's gaskets are still weak, at best, on top of their non-existent support outside their Idaho location.

[RainTreeBoy]

Yes, a shocker with less o-rings and also less quality parts.

I'm almost positive that the new BKO will have a new board, and it will be capped higher than 18. I don't know why you'd spend that money upgrading the solenoid and ram to make it go faster, after doing all that you could just get a B2k5 or better. The point is that the BKO is faster stock.

Tall? You have seen the new BKO and B2K5, right? They got rid of the tray, making it significantly shorter and lighter. Ugliness is much more of a personal thing, so that's your opinion. Again, about being a lightweight gun: we'll see how much the Bko weighs when it comes out trayless. Now like other people have said, keep in mind the BKO will come with a much more adjustable trigger, PDS (I know the Ion comes with break beams too), clamshell like frame, improved stock reg (The one they had one the FS. Though it's not the best, it can get about +/-3, but on either gun you'd probably replace the HPRs). Finally, the BKO will get more than 1000 shots a tank. SP says up to 1400, but from what most reviews are saying it's more like 1200 or so. And I think you mentioned this in another thread, but proshops won't fix ICD guns if they don't carry it? I don't know about you, but both of my pro-shops here will, and I'm pretty sure if you show your proshop money they'll fix it for you, despite whether or not they carry the gun.

[Everlight389]

Originally posted by RainTreeBoy
Yes, a shocker with less o-rings and also less quality parts.

I'm almost positive that the new BKO will have a new board, and it will be capped higher than 18. I don't know why you'd spend that money upgrading the solenoid and ram to make it go faster, after doing all that you could just get a B2k5 or better. The point is that the BKO is faster stock.

Tall? You have seen the new BKO and B2K5, right? They got rid of the tray, making it significantly shorter and lighter. Ugliness is much more of a personal thing, so that's your opinion. Again, about being a lightweight gun: we'll see how much the Bko weighs when it comes out trayless. Now like other people have said, keep in mind the BKO will come with a much more adjustable trigger, PDS (I know the Ion comes with break beams too), clamshell like frame, improved stock reg (The one they had one the FS. Though it's not the best, it can get about +/-3, but on either gun you'd probably replace the HPRs). Finally, the BKO will get more than 1000 shots a tank. SP says up to 1400, but from what most reviews are saying it's more like 1200 or so. And I think you mentioned this in another thread, but proshops won't fix ICD guns if they don't carry it? I don't know about you, but both of my pro-shops here will, and I'm pretty sure if you show your proshop money they'll fix it for you, despite whether or not they carry the gun.

My point is that the BKO you have to do all the upgrades at once to make it even work. I don't believe that the BKO will work with a 4-way humphrey's solenoid without a new board. Ion weighs 2.2 pounds, and with a carbon fiber shell that NDz is making, probably more like 2, while the BKO will always be more like 2.75.

The reg is almost always replaced unless it comes with a CP grip reg... and the Freestyle reg according to many people isn't all that good. Using cheaper parts makes the gun cheaper (obviously), but the Ion's parts seem to be fairly high quality stock. BKO parts, leave more to be desired.

Good for you that your pro-shop will fix them... cause they don't have them and won't fix them here. ICD is a regional company, if you live in that region, go for it, but the Ion is better.

I don't really feel obliged to discuss this further having already stated massive amounts of information battling with an "ICD ballhanger" today. If you want info, read up, and you'll come to the conclusion that the Ion > BKO.

[RainTreeBoy]

Originally posted by Everlight389

I don't really feel obliged to discuss this further having already stated massive amounts of information battling with an "ICD ballhanger" today. If you want info, read up, and you'll come to the conclusion that the Ion > BKO.
That's a great conclusion right there, very original. Why? Because I'm telling people not to jump to conclusions before the BKO is even out? And when they do start jumping to conclusions, I give them spec comparissons. You can tell me I'm swinging on ICD's balls all you want, but you're just blinded by your bias towards them. Just because SP releases a gun in the same price range does not mean it's automatically better. And as I said before, don't compare gun quality or reliability because for the most part it's BS. Again, I know some very knowledgable people who've owned SP products and switched to ICD because of quality, but you can say the same about ICD. The truth is, for the most part, if you have any idea what you're doing and can handle a marker, you're gun will treat you pretty well.

And lastly about the BKO having to be upgraded to work, what are you talking about? Just another dumb arguement that you have to dump hundreds in it for it to work. Thats complete BS, there are plenty of people who keep theirs stock and maintain it well and get what they need out of their BKO. It's that simple, the BKO is faster than the Ion stock, you don't have to dump more money for it to be faster. It's the otherway around in fact. Stop coming up with retarted arguements just because you can't find anything better.

[Everlight389]

Originally posted by RainTreeBoy

That's a great conclusion right there, very original. Why? Because I'm telling people not to jump to conclusions before the BKO is even out? And when they do start jumping to conclusions, I give them spec comparissons. You can tell me I'm swinging on ICD's balls all you want, but you're just blinded by your bias towards them. Just because SP releases a gun in the same price range does not mean it's automatically better. And as I said before, don't compare gun quality or reliability because for the most part it's BS. Again, I know some very knowledgable people who've owned SP products and switched to ICD because of quality, but you can say the same about ICD. The truth is, for the most part, if you have any idea what you're doing and can handle a marker, you're gun will treat you pretty well.

And lastly about the BKO having to be upgraded to work, what are you talking about? Just another dumb arguement that you have to dump hundreds in it for it to work. Thats complete BS, there are plenty of people who keep theirs stock and maintain it well and get what they need out of their BKO. It's that simple, the BKO is faster than the Ion stock, you don't have to dump more money for it to be faster. It's the otherway around in fact. Stop coming up with retarted arguements just because you can't find anything better.

I didn't mean that you were a "ICD ballhanger" but battling them is like convincing terrorists not to try and kill people. They seem dead set on ICD markers being better, when simply they are not. Sorry that you took it that way.

What I was saying was that if you wanted the BKO to not be a spring return, you would have to get a new RAM, board, and solenoid for it to work. It works decently out of the box, but making it an air return has to be done all at once.

I don't think that Smart Parts is a great company in any way. As I've said before, I hate things until they give me reason not to. The Ion seems to be a modestly priced marker that performs very well, and has the support to back it up.

Sending in ICD guns can take up to a month total for turnaround time, which is an insanely long time. With a SP marker I can take it to the local store and they can fix it for me, while around here ICD support is non-existent. If you live near ICD, have fun, but otherwise their support is slow at best.

And if someone cares enough about 1 ball per second over weight and support, have fun with the BKO. Otherwise get the Ion and and a few upgrades for the same price.

[RainTreeBoy]

Originally posted by Everlight389


I didn't mean that you were a "ICD ballhanger" but battling them is like convincing terrorists not to try and kill people. They seem dead set on ICD markers being better, when simply they are not. Sorry that you took it that way.
Understood
What I was saying was that if you wanted the BKO to not be a spring return, you would have to get a new RAM, board, and solenoid for it to work. It works decently out of the box, but making it an air return has to be done all at once.
Ok, I see what you're saying. I thought you meant you had to upgrade the BKO to be faster than the Ion. You do see though, I know having spring return isn't anywhere near as good as air return, but again, it doesn't change the fact that the BKO is faster. The Ion will shoot smoother though
I don't think that Smart Parts is a great company in any way. As I've said before, I hate things until they give me reason not to. The Ion seems to be a modestly priced marker that performs very well, and has the support to back it up.
Again, understood, but don't hate on the 05 BKO or be so quick to support the Ion until the BKO is released. This thread shouldn't even have been made into a big deal in the first place
Sending in ICD guns can take up to a month total for turnaround time, which is an insanely long time. With a SP marker I can take it to the local store and they can fix it for me, while around here ICD support is non-existent. If you live near ICD, have fun, but otherwise their support is slow at best.
While the turn-around time thing is true, whether or not you're proshop will fix it varies. A lot of the problems with ICD markers are because of dumb owners and can be fixed with proper care. And no i don't live near ICD, but my proshop will still fix it
And if someone cares enough about 1 ball per second over weight and support, have fun with the BKO. Otherwise get the Ion and and a few upgrades for the same price.
Thats not all the BKO has over the Ion, but we'll see when it comes out. I'm not saying the Ion is horrible at all, I'm just saying wait until the BKO is released and we get trustworthy reviews. When I see them, I'll make my un-biased conclusion.

[slushii]

Jesus people, the Ion is a better gun. Get over it!

[BunkerBuddy_666]

Originally posted by Everlight389


What I was saying was that if you wanted the BKO to not be a spring return, you would have to get a new RAM, board, and solenoid for it to work. It works decently out of the box, but making it an air return has to be done all at once.



If I wanted a BKO that was not spring return, I would get the B2K5.

I think the ION is butt ugly. You do not need to dump hundreds into a BKO to make it good, because it comes stock with very good parts.

The board is not capped anywhere near 18bps, its capped at 32 bps. The gun is mechanicly capped at around 20. ICD sais 18 because not ALL of their guns preform EXACTLY the same. No one can even constantly shoot more than 20 bps using their fingers, so whats the point of having a huge argument over a 5 bps diffrence??? Dont give me this "you need to spend hundreds before it will even work" BS.

[Everlight389]

Honestly I can probably fix virtually any marker with parts through the mail, simply because I know a fair amount of their operation. Most paintballers, however, don't take the time to learn how they work or how to tech them, while there are a few that do. If they do know how to take care of them, then owning a BKO probably is no trouble, but if they don't, most likely they will run into problems here and there.

I just like the Ion better. I've held one at the store, learned how they work, and they seem to be a very nice marker for the price. 05 BKO is the same as last years, plus the tray, eyes, and milling.

My main conclusion is that around here the Ion is a better choice. I'm not entirely against the 05 BKO, but simply that it costs $75 more for a spring return seems odd to me. If someone has the money, knowledge, and likes them, go for it.

[Everlight389]

Originally posted by BunkerBuddy_666


If I wanted a BKO that was not spring return, I would get the B2K5.

I think the ION is butt ugly. You do not need to dump hundreds into a BKO to make it good, because it comes stock with very good parts.

The board is not capped anywhere near 18bps, its capped at 32 bps. The gun is mechanicly capped at around 20. ICD sais 18 because not ALL of their guns preform EXACTLY the same. No one can even constantly shoot more than 20 bps using their fingers, so whats the point of having a huge argument over a 5 bps diffrence??? Dont give me this "you need to spend hundreds before it will even work" BS.

My point is that you have to buy specific parts all at the same time for it to work. The board may be capped at 32 (actually it's 36 I believe), but I do not think that it works with a 4-way humphrey's solenoid, thus you need a new board to even make it capable of supporting it. Add the new RAM and solenoid, and you have a $200 operation on your hands. While on the Ion's side you can upgrade parts one at a time (bolt, then board, ect).

They do work out of the box. Duh. My point is that if you wanted to make it an air return (which is "timmy" like) you would have to spend hundreds on it.

The mere fact that a spool valve type gun is $75 less than a spring return (as I said before) seems odd, at best. The Ions operation can go farther for cheaper than the BKO's can.

And if you don't like the looks, thats fine, get a BKO, watch me care. Ion's do look a helluva lot better in person than in pictures though.

[Ghost2867]

Originally posted by Everlight389


My point is that you have to buy specific parts all at the same time for it to work. The board may be capped at 32 (actually it's 36 I believe), but I do not think that it works with a 4-way humphrey's solenoid, thus you need a new board to even make it capable of supporting it. Add the new RAM and solenoid, and you have a $200 operation on your hands. While on the Ion's side you can upgrade parts one at a time (bolt, then board, ect).

They do work out of the box. Duh. My point is that if you wanted to make it an air return (which is "timmy" like) you would have to spend hundreds on it.

The mere fact that a spool valve type gun is $75 less than a spring return (as I said before) seems odd, at best. The Ions operation can go farther for cheaper than the BKO's can.

And if you don't like the looks, thats fine, get a BKO, watch me care. Ion's do look a helluva lot better in person than in pictures though.
my question is...

does it really matter whether or not the gun uses a spring return design?

[UTLadiesMan]

I don't have time to read another one... but it's a duplicate and I'm sure this one will turn out as bad or worse than the other.

So, yeah... search.