Blowback vs Autococker, whats the big difference

[stealthbig]

First ill admit that im a huge newbie, so if i missed some important fact, sorry..but why is an autococker so much better than a blowback?

As long as the paintball goes out the barrel at the same fps, there should be no accuracy difference assuming that the two have similiar barrels.

Second, how much faster would an autococker fire than a blowback?

Could someone explain to me why an autococker is so much better, I would appreciate it, to me it just seems like alot of money for something not much better than a good blowback.

[paintdude]

dude the first real difference is a blowback is a blowback and an autococker is a numatic closed bolt gun which means a blowback with the best barrel made would not be as accurate as a cocker with a halfway decent barrel

just since your such a newb dont think angels are cool just cause there expensive and autococker is the best period

[elTwitcho]

Saying a cocker is pnuematically controlled means nothing to the guy so...

Here's how a blowback works

1- there is a sear holding the hammer in place. The hammer is cocked back, and the bolt is connected to the hammer (which means it's also cocked back)

2- The trigger is pulled and the sear releases the hammer

3- The hammer and bolt both drive forward, pushed by the mainspring

4a- The hammer and bolt slide fully into the forward position, the feed tube is sealed off, by the bolt.

4b- At the same time, the hammer drives into the valve.

5a- The valve is forced open and gas flows through the bolt pushing a ball down the barrel

5b- Gas from the valve is also pushed against the hammer. This drives the hammer backwards towards the rear of the gun

6- As the hammer slides back, the valve is closed off and gas stops flowing through to the bolt

7- The hammer slides all the way back behind the sear, where it is caught and held in place. The bolt also slides back with the hammer, since they are connected

8- See step 1


For an autococker

1- When the marker is cocked, the bolt is already forward and a ball is loaded in the breech. The feed tube is sealed off by the bolt in it's forward position. The hammer is cocked back and held in place by the sear. The hammer and bolt are not connected.

2- The trigger is pulled partway back. The sear releases and the hammer drives forward

3- The hammer slams into the valve allowing gas to flow through the bolt and launch a ball out. Gas does not flow to the hammer as in a blowback

4- The hammer stops against the valve, and the valve is pushed shut by a spring. The hammer is now resting against the valve, which is now closed. Air is not flowing through the bolt right now

5- As the trigger is still being pulled backwards at this point since the last step happened very quickly. As the trigger goes further back it trips the 3 way

6- The 3 way switches gas flow to the ram which moves the backblock backwards, towards the rear of the marker. The bolt is attached to the backblock and thus slides open to allow a ball to load. The hammer is also pulled backwards by the backblock, but the hammer is not attached to the backblock.

7- The hammer is pulled backwards to the sear where it is locked into place.

8- The trigger is now ready to be released. When the trigger is released, the 3 way switches back to it's original position, feeding gas to the ram in such a way that drives the backblock forwards

9- The backblock and bolt slide forward, sealing off the breech and feed tube. The hammer does not slide forward since it is held in place by a sear.

10- See step 1



Hope that helps, if you don't know what the specific parts are, well then you're S.O.L :)

[paintdude]

yea what twicho said is what i ment

[Pookister569]

Originally posted by paintdude
dude the first real difference is a blowback is a blowback and an autococker is a numatic closed bolt gun which means a blowback with the best barrel made would not be as accurate as a cocker with a halfway decent barrel

just since your such a newb dont think angels are cool just cause there expensive and autococker is the best period

ehhh.... just because it's like a pump doesn't mean it's more accurate. seriously, warpig did a test on this.

[NSUCK]

but hes still right to a certain degree... he just didnt have all the neat vocabulary ;)

[UTLadiesMan]

Also, the accuracy difference is really that in the blowback, your gun is moving all over the place when recocking since the hammer is driven back by a burst of air. In the cocker, you have a very smooth pushing action along the same plane of the marker, so it doesn't jerk around too much. This means the cocker will still be pointed in the same spot when you rapid fire, and the blowback will be off by some amount.

[Richy_C]

Smoother operation, more consistant, can be set up for no chops, better trigger, can be milled and dead sexy, goes clickity clickty clickty

[stealthbig]

Originally posted by UTLadiesMan
Also, the accuracy difference is really that in the blowback, your gun is moving all over the place when recocking since the hammer is driven back by a burst of air. In the cocker, you have a very smooth pushing action along the same plane of the marker, so it doesn't jerk around too much. This means the cocker will still be pointed in the same spot when you rapid fire, and the blowback will be off by some amount.


So is that the only way that an autococker is more accurate? I dont think how the internal mechanisms work would change the accuracy (maybe the speed), if the paintball left the barrel at the same speed, both in the blowback and autococker without spin, why would the accuracy be better on one or the other. You did have a point with the shaking; but I dont think it shakes enough to throw off the accuracy much...

[UTLadiesMan]

Originally posted by stealthbig
but I dont think it shakes enough to throw off the accuracy much...

Yes, yes it does. You have no idea how bad until you use one for a while, then try the other. Another possible reason is that the cocker fires in the closed bolt position. There is some speculation that in open bolt markers when the bolt hits the ball forward it may change the accuracy a little. This has yet to have any good evidence in a scientific test, and one of Warpig's tests showed that it didn't seem to make a difference.

Also, I don't think this has been said. The cocker fires in the closed position so no air goes into the feed tube. With a blowback, even if you could pull the trigger at 13 bps, you would just chop everywhere as the balls get blown up before falling. Also, the cocker doesn't use very much air to recock as compared to a blowback, making it much more efficient. Also, you can take out the bolt and clean it without turning off the air. There are just a lot of little things that are nicer about them, and only two that I can think of that go in the blowbacks favor. [price and ease of maintence]

[Letchworth40]

Sometimes Spyders and the like are +- 15-20 at the chrono which is REALLY BAD i sometimes laugh. But with a cocker you can get around +-4 and with the smooth operation its ball on ball where ever you aim it.

[ds613]

Originally posted by Richy_C
Smoother operation, more consistant, can be set up for no chops, better trigger, can be milled and dead sexy, goes clickity clickty clickty


What he said^^

Also, the kick will throw off your aim. The barrel may not move much, but as you get farther away from the gun it makes a big difference.

[Codestar20]

Originally posted by Letchworth40
Sometimes Spyders and the like are +- 15-20 at the chrono which is REALLY BAD i sometimes laugh. But with a cocker you can get around +-4 and with the smooth operation its ball on ball where ever you aim it.

Stock spyders can be that bad with co2. But one with a good reg and nitro will be +-3 which is very very nice.

[w00twoot]

Originally posted by Richy_C
Smoother operation, more consistant, can be set up for no chops, better trigger, can be milled and dead sexy, goes clickity clickty clickty

Clickity Clickity clickity kind of tunrs me on :( (former autococker freak)

[davkad]

twitcho... great explanation!!! :)

here's how you sum it up:

blowback - the paintball and the bolt are in motion when air propels the ball down the barrel.

blowforward (closed bolt?) - the paintball and bolt are stationary when air propels the ball down the barrel.

this causes less "kick"... thus giving less blowback and helping a steady hand lay shot ontop of shot.

and i dont think that an autococker is more accurate, just because it's a automatic pump... warpig did a test on this as stated earlier!

i dont think that this cocker praising and angel bashing is in order... there are way too many biased opinions on this board. just answer the damn question!

[VeNoM]

Originally posted by davkad


blowforward (closed bolt?) - the paintball and bolt are stationary when air propels the ball down the barrel.


i think blow forward is like what a mag is and the bolt is open when at rest (i think) and cockers are closed bolt . . .

[UTLadiesMan]

Blow forwards fire from the open position (moving while firing). The difference is the bolt is propelled forward by the air and pushed back by the main spring. In a blowback the bolt is pushed forward by the main spring and propelled back by the air. Closed bolt is neither.

[Letchworth40]

Originally posted by Codestar20


Stock spyders can be that bad with co2. But one with a good reg and nitro will be +-3 which is very very nice.


there is no way thats true. i have nitro and a stabilizer on my spyder and its +- 8 on a good day. +-3 is what a cocker or impy would do. NOT A Stock Spyder

[death]

letch do you run LP? do you have a Palmer's stabilizer? if you answer yes to both these questions, then you must be doing something wrong.

[Codestar20]

I never said a stock spyder would be that good. I said one with nitro and a good reg. If yours is +-8 then something is wrong. Mine is around that with co2.

[Wuzup101]

Letch... WTF are you doing. With a stab and co2 you should be +/- 5 at the very most...add nitro and maybe +/-2...mine is usually +/- 2 at the chrono as long as I keep it clean (had a bad experience when i got shot in the cocking slot)....and I use a PMI inline reg...not a stab...which would be better most likely.