Possibility for Ball Backspin

[nlh]

I posted this message in the Tippmann forum, but there isn't much feedback. Sorry to post again, but I'm very curious as to whether this idea would work. Here's the original post:

Would this setup be possible, or plausible, in any form?

I had an idea today, that in order to add backspin to a paintball, but keep the accuracy of the shot, unlike the flatline - which supposedly lacks accuracy - this method might work. I would like to add a small motorized wheel, or gear of sorts, that would be right below where the ball sits in the gun, and would spin counter-clockwise, resulting in a backspin effect on the ball before fired.

I am wondering if this is possible, mostly, and whether or not it's a good idea. I perceived a problem in this method; the "wheel" would have to spin very quickly in order to affect the ball enough, but would it keep spinning within the barrel, and then keep accuracy in horizontal directions - some curving upwards would be expected, until tweaked - or would the ball wobble out, etc.?

Hopefully, this works, because it seems simple and efficient.

Thanks for your time and thoughts. :)

[w00twoot]

Its a good idea , but where would it sit inside of the marker? (because you are lacking space) It seems like a good idea if it works. :)

[HaZrD Boy 00]

that might work but there would have to be some kind of force on the top of the paintball to make the ball spin better

[HaZrD Boy 00]

that might be a good idea for some kind of pump where the ball is drop in by the pump arm and pushed into the barrell that is probably the only thing that might put force on the ball

[nlh]

I was also thinking about that. I'm trying to figure out a good balance, especially since a semi-automatic gun fires quickly, and the spin would have to be put on rapidly.

If it's properly tweaked, I think it would be possible for a ball to drop, be given a spin, and be shot in midspin. If the barrel was as close to frictionless as possible, and the pressure from the CO2 or Nitrogen distributed properly over the ball, I think (I hope) the ball would continue the backspin pattern on it's path through the barrel, and so forth.

A new gun would have to be built to incorporate this feature, unless it was very, very small. That would still be much work.

I'm still thinking of ways to add just enough spin to cause the ball to keep some lift, without limited notable curve (in any direction.)

[Codestar20]

It might work but the little wheel would have to spin the ball very very fast. Also the barrel would probably slow the spin down so much it wouldn't affect it. It seems like a good idea if it can be pulled off right.

[nlh]

You're correct, I would think. I would imagine that the RPM of the wheel would have to be very, very high, yet gentle so that the ball is not popped around at all - just barely skimming the ball, or simply acting as a fan of sorts.

Also, the barrel problem would need to be addressed. Perhaps this would be solved by an extremely frictionless surface, or an extremely smooth paintball shell. Or, if the fan is a solution that couples high rate of fire with decent backspin, the barrel problem may be eliminated. It seems so difficult to get good enough loft, yet maintain accuracy. :(

If we do come up with plausible solutions, how would they be created and/or tested?

[yando]

everybody knows that a paintball gun never shoots at exactly the same velocity with every shot. how could you ever tweak the backspin thing to work with every shot? the balls may be given the same rate of backspin but some travel faster, therefore they have more lift, and they would curve up. then some balls may be shot slower and not have enough speed to create any lift. so you would have to find a way to correct this. im not trying to kill your idea, just pointing out a possible problem.

[nlh]

Good point, thanks. I suppose this would have the highest success rate on high-level guns - with Nitrogen, namely. Maybe it will work later on, as paintball guns become more reliable, and the velocity can be much more reliable, too.

It's frustrating to run into even more problems, especially when theorizing, but expected.

Thanks for the input everyone.

[foxracer2269]

The solution to the space problem is that you could takr the cocker idea of the front putnamics (sp?) but instead of having that there have the ball spiner located there it won't take up that much more space.Plus you could put the shrowd over it the protect. And if you are wondering how it will reach the ball if its outside you could have special barrels made that have and opening cut in the barell that way the spinner won't have to go inside the gun and if a ball jams on the spinner you could still just take the barrel off and squeege the stuck ball. Good idea ??

[HaZrD Boy 00]

yea

[THE_Cobra58]

sounds like a great idea but i don't think it would work on a semi unless you aren't shooting that fast

[w00twoot]

Yeah good point..

[nlh]

I was worried about that, too.

I was hoping there would be a way to spin the wheel extremely fast, and have the balls just be grazed, but enough to add sufficient backspin.

I'm not sure, I suppose it would all have to be tested thoroughly.

[UTLadiesMan]

I think it might work better further down the barrel as to decrease barrel friction. Of course then it would have to spin faster or have more wheels to get enough spin on it. Another advantage to that, is that you could offer it as an upgrade for all popular markers. If it was a two stage barrel, you could put two wheels in sequence on the bottom, and two wheels in sequence on the top. You wouldn't need very powerful motors to keep the wheels going, but the marker would be pretty forward heavy even with the battery some where else. (Or you could make the barrel out of titanium ;))

[nlh]

Good ideas, UT.

I had another idea in school today - N2 or CO2 could be used as the force to spin the ball, and it could be activated as the trigger is pulled - milliseconds before the firing bolt moves - and would just graze the ball on the bottom. Here's a picture to clarify a little.

[dager]

you need to generate the backspin within the barrel. of you try to impart it in the breech the barrel will cancel out any backspin you put on it. hence why the Z-bodied mags dont work.

-duff

[Wuzup101]

You may have already addressed this...but...how are you going to get the ball to stay in the chamber. I'm thinking it's a good idea...but the direction of the wheel is going to spit the ball up the barrel. You would need to have the wheel pick up the ball perfectly every time to even tune it. If it slips even the slightest bit it will be off...or headed up the barrel prematurely.

It really is a good idea though...it's people like you that will keep the paintball industry alive...keep up the good work!