Bushy kick, efficiency and relation to upgrades (particularly the Vapor Valve)

[ViperXT]

I like my b2k quite a bit the way it is except for the kick and efficiency. I find during long strings the gun rises up a bit which can affect my ability to stay accurate when shooting some of the longer lanes I cover. I'd also like to improve efficiency. The gun is plenty fast for me (although I plan to add Chaos evantually), so I'd like to decrease kick and increase efficiency.

Some of the upgrades I'm looking at are;
Vapor Valve (lowering my operating pressure which should reduce kick),
New LPR(hossless Microrock or maybe an SCM2);
Lighter hammer(was thinking about ordering a lighter hammer, or modding my own to reduce kick).

I was wondering which of these would be best to get first in order to achieve my goal?

[Superandy12]

you could take a look at this, http://vaporworks.net/ram.shtml, I have this on my marker but im not sure how good it is because it was on the marker when I bought it. Also this looks good, http://www.danbonebrake.com/bushmaster_mod.html#1,
Ive had good experience with this company.

[Anonymous28]

Go to www.vaporworks.net and check out their ram mods(The v4 Ram mods) it will increase the effecency and reduce kick i have this done on my gun. i also suggest the vapor valve i have ordered it and installed it and works without problems

[pump]

Dyn2liv does ram and hammer work also

its really well done and really cheep

i have gotten 2 rams from him and have not been let down

the finish he done looks nicer than vapors also

ICDO is down so i dont know where the link is if i find it ill post it

[ViperXT]

dyn2liv looks like a good option. I noticed on the bonebrake site they say efficiency is increased by about 30% with the ram mods. Is this an exageration? 30% seems like a lot for just a ram mod.

[pump]

yeah i think so
people that have the R4 ram says its hyped

but polishing your ram will improve it definatly
and lightening your hammer will help with kick, but your need to increase your dwell

also dyn2liv does port more holes in it also
its hes WAY cheeper than vapor

[ViperXT]

I don't have Chaos right now, is there any way around the dwell thing? Can I just get a lighter valve spring, and if so where?

[Superandy12]

I have a choas board but dwell scares me.

[ShootPaint]

Another option is our MAC Ram.

It increases the shot count of the marker by about 30% when it gets broke in.

It pinches paint instead of chopping it.
The proto-types didnt reduce kick as much as the production units due to a higher operating pressure but the production models will now run around 70 psi.

It comes stock with a standard weight hammer but can be mod'd for light weight use if wanted.

Additional things that will help with reducing kick are:

High flow valve
Quality HPR
Quality LPR
Remove the spring in the ram assembly.
Make sure you have no blow back.

All the above can lead to a reduction in kick if you want to take the time and money to upgrade each item, if needed.

[lotus_esprit5]

dyn2liv is awesome, I've got one of his bolt pins. great work, excellent prices, easy to deal with etc. I've heard his hammer mod is awesome. Vapor is also a good option, as is the shootpaint ram (lower cocking pressure=less kick).

When you use a lighter hammer you need to compensate for the lower mass by increasing dwell, LPR pressure, or a combination of both. This can be minimized by using a lighter valve spring, removing the ram spring, and porting/polishing your ram.
I have a choas board but dwell scares me. it shouldn't. dwell is one of the ways you can mess with your velocity. higher dwell=higher velocity (allowing you to use lower pressure in your regs) but less efficiency. lower dwell does the opposite. Nothing to worry about :cool: . I'm running my gun at 8ms right now for efficiency. Most ppl run their dwell probly between 10-14ms.

Anyway. For reducing kick, I'd do these things. Get a new inline and valve (for lower pressure operation). This made a difference on my gun. Then try a new hammer (dyn2liv IMO), and do the valve spring and ram polishing mods. This should give you pretty low kick for relatively cheap. My gun with just a vapor valve and inline isnt Matrix smooth, but it has very little kick. You can get bushies to be very smooth with the right setup.

pump. I'm curious about dyn2liv's mod myself. How much does it cost?

[pump]

when i get my MAC ram im putting on my lightened hammer on it

also a longer dwell helps with consistnacy

with the lightened hammer your much more inconsistant shot to shot

upping your dwell helps that

[ShootPaint]

Originally posted by pump
when i get my MAC ram im putting on my lightened hammer on it

also a longer dwell helps with consistnacy

with the lightened hammer your much more inconsistant shot to shot

upping your dwell helps that

I disagree with you here. A lighter hammer will not increase your consistantcy. The only way to increase your consistantcy is to tune your marker properly. I ran a B2K3 with a stock ram and MAC Ram. With both rams I ran a standard hammer and I was able to achieve a + or - .5fps change from shot to shot.

A longer dwell doesnt insure you a more consistant marker. It simply means you have to leave the noid on longer for enough air to pass through it. This usually leads to a lower shot count!!!

There is a trade off for using a lighter or heavier hammer. You must weigh your options and see if the trade off is worth while for you.

[pump]

Originally posted by ShootPaint


I disagree with you here. A lighter hammer will not increase your consistantcy.
i didnt say it did
i said it made it worse

[pump]

Originally posted by lotus_esprit5
pump. I'm curious about dyn2liv's mod myself. How much does it cost? uh like only 25 i think
gotta check

[Superandy12]

I wish someone in Texas knew anything about bushmasters:(

[jwong]

Originally posted by ShootPaint
......
Additional things that will help with reducing kick are:
.....
Remove the spring in the ram assembly.
.....

Shootpaint,

Do you mean to remove the spring that keeps the bolt forward when it's de-gassed?

I thought that spring helped to reduce FSDO?

It sounds like you don't think that spring is necessary to reduce/prevent FSDO with the B2K4.

Cheers

[ViperXT]

I'd remove the spring but I've placed some macro-line behind it to fix my rollback. It wouldn't work without the spring being there anymore.

[pump]

also putting a rubber washer behind the hammer works well

[pump]

heres his pics of his work
http://pballstuff.mypicgallery.com/

beautiful

just a straight port and polish w/ lightened hammer is 25.00

[ViperXT]

Wow, that guy's work looks awesome. I'll have to send him my ram after my next tourney to work on.

[lotus_esprit5]

just a straight port and polish w/ lightened hammer is 25.00 hang on lemme get this straight. for $25 he will polish and port the ram, AND do the lightened hammer? DAMN!!!!:P ME WANT!

I know what my bro's getting me for my B-day!

does this include return shipping?

[pump]

uh uh uh i think so

just send your ram and then he has extra rams he just swaps for yours

its a good substitute untill the MAC finally gets released on a major scale
im gonna have him lighten my MAC ram's hammer when i get mine
really helps with kick

it also comes with a new rams spring thats lighter than stock

i never used it
i take mine out


one thing that does suck is that the lightened hammer cant use an oring bumper between the hammer and the ram housing

so i had to stuff an oring in the ram cap to hold the ram cap spacer thingy in place

and on another ram i just had him lathe the hammer differently so my oring can still be functional

[ViperXT]

I gotta get in contact with this guy. But you say he doesn't mod the actual ram you send him, this means I'll have to do the macroline in the cap mod again to fix my rollback?

By the way, anyway manage to find out how to contact this guy?

[ViperXT]

Looks like my situation should improve alot. Someone on the forum is parting out a B2K3 so I'm getting a CCM feedneck, Vapor Valve and Sonic LPR. These (except the CC I guess) combined with the modded ram shoot make my gun shoot more smoothly and get better efficiency.

[pump]

Originally posted by ViperXT
But you say he doesn't mod the actual ram you send him, this means I'll have to do the macroline in the cap mod again to fix my rollback? oh yeah the one your swapped will need the macroline in it again

but thats not hard to do


Originally posted by ViperXT
By the way, anyway manage to find out how to contact this guy?
i know how to did the whole time

isnt his email somewhere on that page?

[lotus_esprit5]

when I ordered my bolt pin from him I got in touch with him through ICDO PM's.

[pump]

dyn2liv: they can hit me via e-mail at dyn2liv@hotmail.com or catch me on msn with the same addy

[ViperXT]

Thanks, I got in contact with him and now my ram is on the way to him.

With the modded ram and new parts (new LPR and Vapor Valve) what operating pressure should I expect?

As well, should I install all the upgrades separately to make sure each one works on its own or is it ok to throw all the upgrades in at once?

[Superandy12]

I would recomend slow so you can see how well each one is and apperacitate it. but since you all ready have them just throw it in.

[ViperXT]

Hey guys,
I'm getting the ram on Monday probably, I've already installed the Vapor Valve and Sonic LPR.

Just wondering what I should set my regs to since I won't be using the old pressures.

I was thinking about setting my HPR to 200-225 psi and then bring up the LPR until I get good cycling and velocity. Or should I just adjust the LPR first to get the new lighter hammer cycling better and then just use the HPR to adjust my final velocity?

-Justin