Oh yeah, its on. (Bouncing Mechs vs. Ramping Electros)

[PMI_Guy]

So, the way I see it, if all the people at my feild insist on using "turbo" mode (or whatever the new cutesy word for it is), I can let my Mag bounce. Funny thing is, even with horrible bounce (I'm talking obviously just sweetspotting the trigger right in front of the refs) no body even lifts an eye. People constantly ask me if its a "shocker." The way I remember shockers are shoe boxes. Man, I always wanted a shoebox shocker.

Moving on, do you have any problem with a bouncing Mech. as opposed to a ramping electro?

And as a rhetorical question, what IS the diffrence between a bouncing mech and ramping electro? Why is mechinical bouncing seen as "worse" than electronic shot adding?

I'm being completely serious.

[Jeezer]

Mechanical bounce isnt as controllable as ramp.

Ramp has a set amount of pulls/speed you must pull to have it jump to the set speed you want (15 bps in the case of PSP)

Mechanical bounce is the trigger returning again from kick and hitting the switch, so it could go at any moment and noone would know.

Situational example: You put your gun down in ramp mode, hit the trigger. Oops! One ball comes out.

Do that with mechanical, hit the sweet spot? Half a hopper.

[amzng_spyderman]

uh, mechs bounce? that's news to me.

edit - oh, are you talking about runaway or something?

[Jeezer]

Originally posted by amzng_spyderman
uh, mechs bounce? that's news to me.

He means mechanical bounce in electro guns (trigger falling back)

[PMI_Guy]

No, I mean RT style bounce. AKA RT mag, RT Tippmann.

This bounce.

http://www.pbpost.net/17mag.mpg

[Jeezer]

Originally posted by PMI_Guy
No, I mean RT style bounce. AKA RT mag, RT Tippmann.

Oh...well..same concept as i was trying to cover before.

[PMI_Guy]

Assume the bouncing stops when the trigger is released.

<bed>

[can'tthink of1]

But the bouncing doesn't stop... it can continue, thus labeled as "bad" in my book. Trust me, with the right skills you'll be fine my friend. I've been shot out by a mech mag before...

Then again, I oppose ramping because say they set the rap at 3bps, if they come up and expect to put like 6 balls into you, it can ramp up on the last 3shots and you now have possibly 10+ more balls on you.

[BigTarget04]

Originally posted by amzng_spyderman
uh, mechs bounce? that's news to me.

edit - oh, are you talking about runaway or something?

All RT valved and xvalved mags can be tuned to do something called rapid fire. Basically what happens is if you lightly hold your finger on the trigger the reactive part to it causes it to bounce back and forth off of your finger. I think I saw on zack vetter's site where he used rapid fire on a RT mag with input pressure of around 3000 psi to get it up to around 34 cycles per second. But rapid fire in mags usually requires a high input pressure and or adjustable tank and I think if you get the ULT kit in one it almost all but eliminates the ability to do this.

[dm4monkey]

i've seen karnivores bounce so bad that the only way to stop them was to physically stop the backblock....ramping is kept under control as long as the user isnt an idiot about it....but a gun running away like that due to bounce is scary.

[fusion_05]

I don't have any experiance with mech bounce, but I ramp my ion at my field and no one has ever said anything.

[mooseknuckle]

The thing is with a ramping gun it will stop the very same moment you take your finger off the trigger. With a bouncing gun, it can keep on going. Ramp is in fact safer than bounce, which is why I think the ramp rule is a good idea. People set up their guns to bounce, loose control, and hurt or piss off someone (lasoya anyone?).

[Jaster]

one pull, one shot. Anything else is B.S. imo.

[chris220]

Originally posted by Jaster
one pull, one shot. Anything else is B.S. imo.

Agreed. Learn the skill of walking, not ramping BS.

[PMI_Guy]

I'm going to take a wild guess that most of you who are saying that mech bounce dosen't stop when the trigger is released have never shot a RT style gun.

[BigTarget04]

Originally posted by dm4monkey
i've seen karnivores bounce so bad that the only way to stop them was to physically stop the backblock....ramping is kept under control as long as the user isnt an idiot about it....but a gun running away like that due to bounce is scary.

Actually the mag's "bounce" does not run away it is fully controlable. If you hit the trigger once with your finger it fires once. But if you hold your finger in front of the trigger it will bounce of and fire slower or faster depending on how much pressure you are applyin with your finger. So in conclusion the rapid fire with mags is fully controllable and will go until you a) take pressure off the trigger or b) run out of paint.

And here is everything one needs to know how to cause rapid fire and how it works. (http://www.zakvetter.com/pages/pb/mag_info/rapidfire/how-to-rapidfire.html)

edit: sorry dont know why but none of the vid links on the page are working.

[Everlight389]

Originally posted by Jaster
one pull, one shot. Anything else is B.S. imo.

Rampings fun outside of games, but I'd never do it when I was actually playing. I can walk 12-14 on my Ion... good enough for me, and conserves more paint.

[etmydst]

there was a kid at my pb feild about a week ago that had a mag that bounced like a MOTHER it was crazy. very fun to shoot but it could be very dangerous

[PMI_Guy]

Originally posted by etmydst
there was a kid at my pb feild about a week ago that had a mag that bounced like a MOTHER it was crazy. very fun to shoot but it could be very dangerous

No more dangerous than a ramping electro, however.

[Jeezer]

Originally posted by PMI_Guy


No more dangerous than a ramping electro, however.

No, ramping is controlled by the user. Bounce (electric, mechanical) is not.

[can'tthink of1]

Originally posted by Jeezer


No, ramping is controlled by the user. Bounce (electric, mechanical) is not.

It can still be dangerous. People set the ramp point really low, they could snap off a couple balls and blamo, there are many more balls than actual trigger pulls. It's safer to an extent, but still dangerous, because not EVERY ball was because the user pulled their trigger.

[coolrazer]

I think they should get rid of them both, it takes skill out of the game, and replaces it with an electronic board. But, if I step onto a field where people are also using ramping guns, rebound mode goes on.

[Spyderlover120]

Originally posted by Jaster
one pull, one shot. Anything else is B.S. imo.

seriously, i want out because ur better than me not because u can lane me off the break when ur ramping 15+ bps.
IMO, i think that all bounce, cheater boards, ramping (velocity),etc, etc, etc, should be banned from the field, and the sport,

pros should have to sit out a season, and pay a fine, + have their team disqualified from the event

i would like to see more money spent on robots and ref training instead of the 75,000+ fields

sponsers should come down hard on their teams that use this software

and i think anyfield owner that lets ramping and bounce go on at their field and tolerates it should be removed from their position.

and if u know their are cheaters on the field, be responsible and keep ur ramping/bouncing off

u may be helping urself, but ur hurting the sport far more than anything u can think of.

[Samrog777]

Originally posted by PMI_Guy
Assume the bouncing stops when the trigger is released.

<bed>

Then it technically isn't bounce. It's response trigger.

[Jeezer]

Originally posted by can'tthink of1


It can still be dangerous. People set the ramp point really low, they could snap off a couple balls and blamo, there are many more balls than actual trigger pulls. It's safer to an extent, but still dangerous, because not EVERY ball was because the user pulled their trigger.

Well right now the factory setting the lowest I've seen has been 5 bps at least, and like with the pb advantage boards it only ramps a percentage of what you set the ramp time to (IE 5 bps, 100-200% more) thats kinda cool.


The robots dont work, its a good scare tactic, but not really useful (doesnt even catch side bounce)

Refs can tell easily when a gun is ramping, NPPL refs know it fo sho. I even saw Rodney Squires get his gun taken away at XPSL by a smart ref who came up behind him, took his gun and went to the chrono. Pure pwnage :D.

The sport itself isnt getting hurt, although it takes the aspect of pulling the trigger away from paintball, it allows more of the player's concentration to be put into making that play, knowing where everyone is at etc. The way Isee it, with worry of pulling your trigger gone, we should see some more fired up games.

[dm4monkey]

Originally posted by BigTarget04
[B]

Actually the mag's "bounce" does not run away it is fully controlable. If you hit the trigger once with your finger it fires once. But if you hold your finger in front of the trigger it will bounce of and fire slower or faster depending on how much pressure you are applyin with your finger. So in conclusion the rapid fire with mags is fully controllable and will go until you a) take pressure off the trigger or b) run out of paint.

i was referring to bounce in general

[can'tthink of1]

Originally posted by Jeezer

The sport itself isnt getting hurt, although it takes the aspect of pulling the trigger away from paintball, it allows more of the player's concentration to be put into making that play, knowing where everyone is at etc. The way Isee it, with worry of pulling your trigger gone, we should see some more fired up games.

Thats where we differ I guess. I've noticed a steady decrease in movement from videos from FON, local tournies, and various TV shows. Now hitting the 50 is unheard of almost, and now it seems teams just move up maybe to the 30, and just start slinging paint till a victory is almost assured. Just a general lack of movement till the shooting out of the last couple of players on a team, has just left paintball, well almost dry to watch.

As for dangers of ramping... in slushi's proto vid, and other vids I've seen, they can set it to ramp up to a high bps just by pulling it with one finger. That may not look dangerous, but when stuff ramps like that, the marker is going to add shots, and even if you just pop off 5 or something, that could end up being like 18 or something depending on the level of ramping.

The fact that teams are willing to risk getting pulled out of the tournament for an illegal marker, just so they can compete with other teams, is just sad. (The NPPL that is)

[Jeezer]

Originally posted by can'tthink of1


Thats where we differ I guess. I've noticed a steady decrease in movement from videos from FON, local tournies, and various TV shows. Now hitting the 50 is unheard of almost, and now it seems teams just move up maybe to the 30, and just start slinging paint till a victory is almost assured. Just a general lack of movement till the shooting out of the last couple of players on a team, has just left paintball, well almost dry to watch.

Untrue actually, that happens because a lot of teams have adopted a more defensive way of playing (as I noticed when I was playing XPSL this weekend). They're starting to get scared of losing bodies OTB etc. Local tournies I dont really expect much (plus I doubt many of their guns would be ramping). FON and TV shows dont really capture anything great, if you notice even their 2k3 vids ar ejust abunch of teams slugging it out. Paintball isnt much of a video sport (unless you do videos full of bunkerings and muggins like Derder), you really get alot of excitement when you watch the games in person.

Actually go watch the PBstar videos of PSP X-ball. Its legalized ramping, but some of the best game videos I've seen.

[can'tthink of1]

Originally posted by Jeezer


Untrue actually, that happens because a lot of teams have adopted a more defensive way of playing (as I noticed when I was playing XPSL this weekend). They're starting to get scared of losing bodies OTB etc. Local tournies I dont really expect much (plus I doubt many of their guns would be ramping). FON and TV shows dont really capture anything great, if you notice even their 2k3 vids ar ejust abunch of teams slugging it out. Paintball isnt much of a video sport (unless you do videos full of bunkerings and muggins like Derder), you really get alot of excitement when you watch the games in person.

Actually go watch the PBstar videos of PSP X-ball. Its legalized ramping, but some of the best game videos I've seen.

Defensive style yes, I agree totally. But to me, this ultra defensive, everyone stay back and shoot, isn't fun. Its just a quick sprint to you bunker and shoot. Thats not fun imo, and almost seems lazy. The problem I see, is as marker speeds increase, it takes more and more skill to get to say the 40 even, especially if everyone on the opposing team is basically laning otb. I couldn't stand playing one bunker the majority of the game, one of the main reasons I despise playing back, there just isn't that fun. I think as marker speeds start increasing even more, movement is just going to become even more restricted. The one main beef I have with the PSP and like, is that there is one key skill that is taken out with it. Running and gunning. No longer must the player have to be able to pull the trigger fast while running, they'll let the marker do it for them.

Paintball is becoming messed up like this. Some, wholeheartedly support the 15bps cap + ramp, while others live by semi-only. I see that there are good points to both, but the PSP style mainly bugs me. People can lane with ease, run and gun with ease, a couple of skills that can set players apart from eachother in semi only stuff.

I'm not really liking the way paintball is getting really divided, and how morals have taken back seat to winning.

[Caleb98]

It's all retarded, you can't shoot 12 bps, too damn bad.
Get an electro or just learn not to suck.

[DarkeWolf]

PMI_Guy- Reading thru this, some of the statements that you've posted make me think that you are crossing bounce, with an RT trigger.
I've shot an a5 with a RT trigger. One pull, two shots. One on the pull, one on the release. I dont see that as such a bad thing. I mean, it only had room for one finger. It didnt make it any different from a guy using two fingers on a double trigger. And....it still wasnt as fast as what I can walk, on my TES.

True bounce....where the recoil of the gun keeps tripping the firing mechanism or switch, yeah...that I have a problem with. Thats like having a gun with the firing pin sheared down so that it can shoot full auto. Its not controllable, and its not safe, as far as I'm concerned. And I think that its just a really cheap way that people use to make up for the fact that their fingers just cant keep the pace that they want them to.

Ramping- I just got steamed up about ramping in another thread. So if the cork blows, well...here's the apology in advance.
As far as I'm concerned ramping is for losers. Its for somebody that is either incapable or is too lazy to put forth the work of their fingers to gain something that they feel that they dont have.
I've sat here and read SO many times about why somebody should get an ion "cause it ramps" that it makes me wanna puke.
WHAT is the purpose of ramping away on a rec field? Or in the woods, playing woodsball or scenario? There is NONE, other than self-gratification. Theres no sportsmanship involved in that, there's no skill involved in that, its just laying down a helluva lotta paint.

[MeRRiTT87]

Originally posted by Jeezer


The sport itself isnt getting hurt, although it takes the aspect of pulling the trigger away from paintball, it allows more of the player's concentration to be put into making that play, knowing where everyone is at etc. The way Isee it, with worry of pulling your trigger gone, we should see some more fired up games.
At that level of play you shouldn't even have to think about walking the trigger you should just do it automatically, even at my level i don't even have to think about walking the trigger.

[Jeezer]

Originally posted by MeRRiTT87

At that level of play you shouldn't even have to think about walking the trigger you should just do it automatically, even at my level i don't even have to think about walking the trigger.

Darn it Merrit, your the first one to catch that hole in my argument. Have a muffin.

[PMI_Guy]

Originally posted by DarkeWolf

I've shot an a5 with a RT trigger. One pull, two shots.




Thats a response trigger.

[robdamanii]

You don't need to ramp. You don't need to bounce.

14 BPS is PLENTY in any game situation.

Personally, you only need to shoot off short bursts anyway, or snap shoot. Other than that....no need for insane ROFs.

[Bigshot]

If you use and crap mode while screwing around not in a game, i don't care. If you use it during a game, i will eat you.

[THE_SEAL]

Originally posted by dm4monkey
i've seen karnivores bounce so bad that the only way to stop them was to physically stop the backblock....ramping is kept under control as long as the user isnt an idiot about it....but a gun running away like that due to bounce is scary.

Yeah, my cocker can bounce pretty bad but it stops after only 10 or so shots. It wont keep going. And I've never deliberately set my gun to bounce ever. I always work out the kinks before hand. I agree with Jaster. 1 pull=1 shot

[wordf0o]

A shot per pull, but if someone is ramping against--I'm going to ramp too.

[Bellicose]

Originally posted by wordf0o
A shot per pull, but if someone is ramping against--I'm going to ramp too.

Naw, then you'd be stooping to their level. Just own them the right way.

[Jeezer]

Originally posted by Bellicose


Naw, then you'd be stooping to their level. Just own them the right way.

Thats not stooping ,thats evening the playing field. Stooping is stealing from a person who stole from you. S'not like a guy ramping to 15's gonna be any harder to shoot out than a guy who shoots 15.

[DarkeWolf]

the point is, is that they feel that they need to use an electronic boost, to be able to achieve that 15 bps. why sink down to that level, just because somebody else did?

[coolrazer]

To compete? I don't care what you say about not needing ramping to compete. If you're facing a team with 5 ramping guns, its nice to level the playing field with 5 more ramping guns.

[Jeezer]

Originally posted by DarkeWolf
the point is, is that they feel that they need to use an electronic boost, to be able to achieve that 15 bps. why sink down to that level, just because somebody else did?

You said it again in different words. It isnt sinking either.

[DarkeWolf]

hrmph. yeah it is. its not being "competitive". competitive is being the best that you can be, not about having to resort to outside measures to improve on your own limitations. its about using your own strengths to get the win.

[lri2x97]

First of all I would like to say that ramping does not take the skill out of paintball it enhances it. The only skill it would be removing is "skill" of walking which isnt really a skill at all, I see so many noobs who suck compleatly at paintball who will come up to me and say they are good enough to be on dynasty because, they spend all day on paintball fourms and walk their pencil 24/7, and so they can shoot 20bps and that makes them god.I personally think that even NXL full auto ok because it becomes a game of lines and angles which is what are sport really is. There should be no "I want to practice paintball so I will spend my day walking my trigger" in this sport. With the trigger part of it removed it puts the focus on angles movemend sweetspoting and acuraccy.