Ive looked around and ive had some changes in my opinion....

[ir0nExpress]

As of now, i am looking to buy a spyder imagine with completely decked out everything (well everything i could afford) which included:

-Delrin bolt
-Odyssey Halo Backman LCD TSA Paintball Loader
-Barrel of some higher quality then stock
-Dye sticky grips
-Might think about a HPS tank

But after looking for a while,

http://www.pbreview.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=310978
^mostly at that thread

and the amount of money i will be spending, i was thinking of getting an ION or a BKO instead, as i see most of the upgrades i need for the imagine's problems (like crappy bolt and ball chopping) are already taken care of in an ION (eye sensor) etc.

How much would i have to upgrade before i can use the gun without any drawbacks? (like for example, the imagine's stock bolt scratches the inside and the grips let in dirt, so the stock of this must be replaced)

The question now comes down to the fact that the only gun ive ever owned is a Brass eagle stingray II (yes i know, stone me) which ive taken care of very well, i know how it works inside out. How much harder is it to maintain one of these higher end guns? Because i dont want to be doing 1st grade work and be thrown into college and get overwhelmed.

Also, obviously if i buy an Imagine, Ion or BKO, i need some sort of electro hopper or chopping is inevitable. What kind should i look for? (please use full names for the products, i dont know their shorten names)

And finally the links to the guns to make sure im not getting the wrong thing.

BKO http://www.actionvillage.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=PPSxERLWCR6xLFBBJAdxuRhwAsfuGYnUUmc=?Pro ductID=WXCsFAY7jl0AAAD5CRFb_PyG

ION
http://www.actionvillage.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=PPSxERLWCR6xLFBBJAdxuRhwAsfuGYnUUmc=?Pro ductID=P6XAqArbGfgAAAEBJ9hekf3f

Imagine
http://www.actionvillage.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=PPSxERLWCR6xLFBBJAdxuRhwAsfuGYnUUmc=?Pro ductID=refAqArbVhkAAAEBEMRekfOZ

Thank you for your help, ill try to be more detailed if any questions arise.

Thanks again.

[mo7stanley]

For the loader, it would probably be good to invest in an evolution II. this is because the empire reloader two only does about 15 bps max and the evolution II will keep you happy no matter what gun you shoot.

With the bolt on the imagine, you don't need to replace it. it scratches a little but it is normal and can be made less by polishing hte internals. If I had the mony and I were in your shoes I would probably get the Ion. Actually I would probably get the BKO just to be different.

[Bellicose]

Bolt scratching in the imagine doesn't effect performance at all. If you have the money, get an ion or bko. I know the ion is pretty simple, there are some videos on pbn on how to take it apart and put it back together. It is pretty good stock. Not sure on the bko, but I like the bko's looks more.

[Spyderlover120]

Originally posted by Bellicose
Not sure on the bko, but I like the bko's looks more.

the BKO is a very nice marker, light wight, evenly weighted, and to me the ion feels akward in my hands, and its a ***** to get above 10 bps

[DagNasty]

Iron.. your questions are pretty common and you're going to get different answers from everyone who responds.

Let's look at your particular situation. You will be spending money on a new gun and you're looking to get the most bang for your buck. It would help to know what your intentions are and where exactly you see yourself playing the most.

If you plan on getting into tournaments and playing at a competative level, then there are a few marker features that rank highest on that list: eyes, rof, dependability. Bare bones, a tournament player needs eyes, a decent rate of fire, and something that works more then breaks down.

If you're planning on using it recreationally, then some of those features don't matter as much.

Bolt knicks are common in stacked tube markers, dirt and such entering the internals.. well, I can't tell you the last time I had a day where my marker didn't get trashed. It happens. Markers wear down over time if used. Just like any other sport.

With any of those markers you mentioned, it is a good idea to get an HPA tank. HPA costs a little more, but the flexibility and consistency of the source makes it worthwhile. If you upgrade in the future, you can take your tank with you. If you decide to keep CO2, you won't want to be shooting CO2 through your DM5 or Timmy.

If you go with a blind gun then loader speed definitely makes a difference. You're depending on the loader being able to keep up with the cycle rate as your only method for controlling ball breakage. If you go with an aced marker, then you have the peace of mind in knowing that a slow loader will only limit ROF, but not cause massive ball breakage. An ion and a revvy will work fine together. A blind bko or Spyder and a revvy at higher rof's, you might see some bolt choppage.

My personal opinion is that if you have the means to get an aced gun, you should do it. Some people are loyal to their brands and recommend going with it no matter the circumstance. But given the price range you're looking at, I'd take the aced gun over anything else. And that might mean an aced bko/b2k4. It might mean the Ion, who knows.

For the price of an Ion, action village sells b2k4's with PDS..

B2K4 with PDS (http://www.actionvillage.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=-LjOLt4YyFHOm5yPySYOhtTRXfh78nG3ic0=?ProductID=vm2s FAY7v38AAAD7Aw8wXGB5#)

It will come down to preference. People who shoot stacked tube markers find the ion to feel strange because it is not stacked tube. some poeple just don't like smart parts and they will always bash them, despite the functionality of their products.

I'd go with the Ion if I were in your shoes. I've had the chance to break them down, I like the internals and making mods or adding upgrades is a snap, and I think they are solid markers. Very little needs to be done to the Ion to get it competing with much higher end markers. Sure, they're composite shells are strange at first. But you get used to them.

From a dependability standpoint.. let's just say I haven't seen a single ION in the shop yet period. I've seen more then my fair share of other markers however.

[ir0nExpress]

Hrmmm, i see my options now. Thanks for everyone who helped so far especially nasty.

Mostly i play woodsball as of now, every single week for the last 6 to 7 weeks, but i doubt ill enter any tournaments and if i do, that will be when im in college, away from my parents. Right now ive changed their opinion from negative to neutral.

When i bought that stingray, they were against it, but since ive came back every single time from playing, they stopped thinking that i'd end up dead (they're really against anything they dont understand) but now i have conversations with them about how i bunked this kid today.

Before the imagine, i had also thought about getting an A5, as ive play woodsball.

I see the ION and BKO are definitely more for speedball rather then woodsball. I REALLY hate chops as of right now. Accuracy and no chopping is what i prefer. I dont really mind a 5 bps lol, as long as the ball hits where i want.

Any comments on the A5? *forgive me for being annoying by asking so many questions, but im gonna want a new gun fast, i cant stand my gun rite now*

[mooseknuckle]

With a decent aftermarket barrel (CP one piece/$40, if you have the $$$ dye ultralight or site mfg. st!ffi, $90) the ion will be more accurate than the bko or tippmann/spyder with the same barrel because it's a spool valve marker. A spyder with ups won't shoot as well as a bko or ion, so I'd put that out of the picture.

[DagNasty]

From the standpoint of someone who plays nppl, GPL, EXP and whatever other tournament I can attend on my free weekends.. I'd shy away from the A-5. Not because I don't think it can keep up. Tippy Effect uses them in tournament ball, modified to hell, but they still use them. I find the A-5 to be bulky, heavy, and inefficient. I also feel the same away about a half dozen $1,000 and up markers so you can take my opinion however you want. I believe we pay too much to play this sport as is and the products we get are sometimes terrible.

That being said, we sell them at the shop faster then we can keep them in. For a woodsball fanatic or scenario player, I'd venture to say they are the standard and reliable.

You won't find too many aced markers (RIGHT NOW) for the price of the Ion or b2k with PDS. The Impulse is your other choice and in some cases, an ebladed cocker. But its like you mentioned earlier. If you're shooting 15 bps or 5, nobody likes to break a ball. It could mean the different between you getting eliminated or your opponent.

The normal progression of many ballers is to get hooked on woodsball and migrate over to speedball. Say whatever you want about it, I've been in the sport since the mid 90's and I've seen it happen to 70-80% of the players I know. I'm one of them. Every weekend we get a woodsballer in the shop looking to get into a higher rof marker and start playing on the airball fields. It's a bit sad because they just spent a few hundred dollars on that A-5 or whatever it is they are shooting and now have to turn around and sell it for considerably less then they spent on it. That's one reason I do push the Ion as someone who plays/works on/sells markers. Bear in mind I get no profit from selling ion's or anything else. I just work there because the shop owner is one of our sponsors. But the Ion is nice in the woods and performs just as well on the speedball fields. And it does all this with minimal maintenance. I am, among many brands, a bushy owner as well as an Ion owner, i've got a fairly long history of posts here in favor of bushies, but if I happened to forget my timmy or matrix one day at a tournament and all I had was the ion or bushmaster.. I'd be shooting the Ion. No questions asked.

with the ion or bushmaster, you'll need a better barrel.. you'll also probably want a new hpr either way.

[TheSpy11]

The main reason I use an A-5 is because of the Flatline. I love my A-5 and it works great in the woods, but if the Flatline wasn't an option I'd probably be shooting an ION right now.

[coolrazer]

Yeah, get a BKO... *cough* look *cough* at *cough* my *cough* sig *cough*

:dodgy:

[senghing27]

Aww, ur sick!!!:laugh: Couch medicine??
A-5s are nice, becuse you got the flatline, heck i even got one ( looks in sig) Its semi decent for speedball, sad i can't use it for tournies cuz of the response trigger. If you are going to be playing speedball for a good amount of time i'd get the ion if on budget. , the a-5 is definetly nice, even better if you are in to mil sims. Also the ions are great for the money. True they are "speedball based" but they work really nice in the woods. I got my ion customed, *sounds stupid, no flaming please* I took the old shell and camo taped it, personality, and underestimation on the speedball field. I've had people who scoff at me with their shockers, impys, etc, and say "ha, a camoed ion, you sure are smart." They underestimate my skill and all. Sad fools.:D Oh a side note, i've never used a bushy before, but my friend has one and he likes the feel of it. Just go to your local pro shop and find out what you like.

So heres the breakdown
Woods- Tippmann
Woods to speedball- Ion
Speedball- Etc. No spyders, it would be hard to compete with other guns.

** Also, if you are looking at the a-5, you could find a used 98c, and get the cyclone feed for it, which is coming out pretty soon. Lot cheaper**

[SpyderGnome]

i personally would shy away from BKO's...I've seen many problems with the blowback in them, so I'd suggest getting a B2k with PDS, with those, I havnt seen as many problems, and with PDS you have an eye which *should* solve your chopping problems...

and as for Ion's, I have heard good and bad about them, but I'm still thinking of getting one just to see for myself how good/bad this little piece can be.

also with most any high end gun, make sure you save enough money for compress air/Nitrogen/N2, cause that is by far the best upgrade to any gun

[igota98custom]

Personally this is what I would get-

B2k4 w/PDS
Ion
BKO
Imagine

Instead of that Halo TSA, I would get an Eggy II, and just some cheap HPA tank for now. Always room to upgrade.

[Sniper15]

This is what I would get if I was you...

Ion
Crossfire HPA tank (preferably a 68/4500, but get whatever size you want)
Evolution 2