Spyder vs Ion, for a vet spyder user [Archive]

Sets_Chaos

08-06-2005, 10:22 PM

I've been using spyders for as long as I've played paintball (4 years). My first gun was a spyder, my first game was with a rental spyder, my friends gun who I discovered paintball is a spyder. I've fixed at least 12 different spyders for at least 12 various reasons. I've followed spyder as long as I can remember. All my brothers own spyders, all of my accesories and spare parts are spyder.

But now I'm ready to get a new gun, and I'm wondering if a Spyder Electra '05 ACS would be the best move. The only other gun that might compete is the ION. So far, only what people say about the ION has had any validity on the gun for me. I hear praise coming from a lot of owners, but I need some facts to back up their talk. I'm a back player, so I don't mind the wieght of the Electra, and I really would use the extra speed that the Electra has (17bps vs 30bps). My Airsmithing skills are definately biased to spyder, as are all my parts that I own. The switch to the ION would mean I have to learn a whole new style of gun, as well as getting a whole new set of replacement parts in addition to the ones for my brothers spyders. (One note, though, I have air, so the ION/CO2 problem is irrelevant.)

Anyone have any valid arguments as to why I should betray my heritage and get an ION? (BTW: Thanks for reading all that, its a lot)

Algernon

08-06-2005, 11:05 PM

the main differences between the ion and spyder from a shooter's perpective is going to be the shot-to-shot consistantcy of the ion, low kick, light weight. 3 point adjustibility on the trigger and ramping.

consistancy: the ion has a decent reg out of the box. i have no experiance with the fenix but i don't believe the fenix can compare to the ion in terms of consistancy. the more consistant your marker is the better the groupings and the more accurate you be.

kick: the kick of the marker also affects your consistancy in that a fenix or any spyder/clone will jump about at high ROFs.

light weight: the ion is probably lighter. it may aid in snap shooting.

trigger: the 3 point adjust allows you to tune the trigger to your liking and 'sweet spot' it easier allowing you to shoot faster than a fenix. don't look at BPS caps to decide how fast a marker can shoot. things like microswitches and triggers affect ROF from a practical sence than anything else.

ramping: yeah it's cheating, but no worse than the 'bouncing' guys with $1500 timmys do. the ramping at least allows you to keep up if you choose to employ it.

what you would be considering here is a jump up from low-end electros (spyders) to high-end electros (the ion). the jump is very worth while, i can vouch for that. if you choose to go high-end then the ion is solid choise. this is, however, an important decision and i HIGHLY recommend you consider dropping an extra $80-$100 for a much better marker. not because these markers would be any better than an ion out of the box, but because they are a much better platform to build up. at this point the ion is a stepping stone to the high-end electro world. do to some design flaws that i don't particualry care for the ion is handicapped by comparison to other high-end electros, but leaps and bounds better than a fenix.

buy a good high-end and build it into the last marker you'll ever need. do it right. i highly recommend the promaster, a nice used vision impulse, 04 or newer angel or GZ timmy. performance wise these are not much better than an ion but have far more potenitial. you can still pick up a fenix as a back up and a cheap project gun. a fenix can be made to rip right along slide high-end electros, but with the money you would invest you'd be better off with a high-end.

Dunty

08-07-2005, 05:26 AM

Originally posted by Algernon
the main differences between the ion and spyder from a shooter's perpective is going to be the shot-to-shot consistantcy of the ion, low kick, light weight. 3 point adjustibility on the trigger and ramping.
The Ion will beat any Spyder in any way, like Speed, Accuracy, Consistency, efficientness, and others.
consistancy: the ion has a decent reg out of the box. i have no experiance with the fenix but i don't believe the fenix can compare to the ion in terms of consistancy. the more consistant your marker is the better the groupings and the more accurate you be.
[COLOR=red] The stock regs on Spyders are complete crap, they're just cheap marketing techniques.
kick: the kick of the marker also affects your consistancy in that a fenix or any spyder/clone will jump about at high ROFs.
Yup, the Ion shoots well at high speeds, the Spyder does not, also, it is also easier to obtain the speeds on an Ion.
light weight: the ion is probably lighter. it may aid in snap shooting.
It is.
trigger: the 3 point adjust allows you to tune the trigger to your liking and 'sweet spot' it easier allowing you to shoot faster than a fenix. don't look at BPS caps to decide how fast a marker can shoot. things like microswitches and triggers affect ROF from a practical sence than anything else.
Exactly, the Electra is capped at 30, the Ion at 17, which do you think is faster? The Ion!
ramping: yeah it's cheating, but no worse than the 'bouncing' guys with $1500 timmys do. the ramping at least allows you to keep up if you choose to employ it.
Most local tourneys allow ramping, well, only up to certain speeds, and I don't know the rule for NPPL.

what you would be considering here is a jump up from low-end electros (spyders) to high-end electros (the ion). the jump is very worth while, i can vouch for that. if you choose to go high-end then the ion is solid choise. this is, however, an important decision and i HIGHLY recommend you consider dropping an extra $80-$100 for a much better marker. not because these markers would be any better than an ion out of the box, but because they are a much better platform to build up. at this point the ion is a stepping stone to the high-end electro world. do to some design flaws that i don't particualry care for the ion is handicapped by comparison to other high-end electros, but leaps and bounds better than a fenix.
The Ion is as good as an Imp, why do you think they replaced it? Ions aren't as good as a DM5, Shocker, Timmy, etc., but they aren't horrible in comparison.
buy a good high-end and build it into the last marker you'll ever need. do it right. i highly recommend the promaster, a nice used vision impulse, 04 or newer angel or GZ timmy. performance wise these are not much better than an ion but have far more potenitial. you can still pick up a fenix as a back up and a cheap project gun. a fenix can be made to rip right along slide high-end electros, but with the money you would invest you'd be better off with a high-end.
If he's been playing with Spyders and wants tp start tourneys, an Ion would be an awesome choice.

YoBoneDaddy

08-07-2005, 06:38 AM

Why get a spyder. There are quite a few blowbacks out there with more capabilities for less price. Ones with actual break beam eyes for example. Plus you can use all the same upgrades on a lot of clones as you can on a true spyder. That's just my :twocents:

The ion seems to be a fan favourite. The no quick stripping just makes me nervous personally but to each their own.

Sets_Chaos

08-07-2005, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by Dunty
quote:Originally posted by Algernon
the main differences between the ion and spyder from a shooter's perpective is going to be the shot-to-shot consistantcy of the ion, low kick, light weight. 3 point adjustibility on the trigger and ramping.
The Ion will beat any Spyder in any way, like Speed, Accuracy, Consistency, efficientness, and others.
consistancy: the ion has a decent reg out of the box. i have no experiance with the fenix but i don't believe the fenix can compare to the ion in terms of consistancy.

OK... I'm not asking for thinking, I'm asking for knowing.

the more consistant your marker is the better the groupings and the more accurate you be.
The stock regs on Spyders are complete crap, they're just cheap marketing techniques.

So far my brothers and my regs have held up perfectly :eyes:

kick: the kick of the marker also affects your consistancy in that a fenix or any spyder/clone will jump about at high ROFs.
Yup, the Ion shoots well at high speeds, the Spyder does not, also, it is also easier to obtain the speeds on an Ion.

Interesting, I'll have to try them soon.

light weight: the ion is probably lighter. it may aid in snap shooting.

I already said I'm a back player and I don't really care all that much about weight... ;-)

trigger: the 3 point adjust allows you to tune the trigger to your liking and 'sweet spot' it easier allowing you to shoot faster than a fenix. don't look at BPS caps to decide how fast a marker can shoot. things like microswitches and triggers affect ROF from a practical sence than anything else.

Exactly, the Electra is capped at 30, the Ion at 17, which do you think is faster? The Ion!

What?!? The guy at our pro shop flat out told me that the Electra is faster than an Ion. He's a certified SP tech, and has an imp, but still admitted an electra is faster.

ramping: yeah it's cheating, but no worse than the 'bouncing' guys with $1500 timmys do. the ramping at least allows you to keep up if you choose to employ it.
Most local tourneys allow ramping, well, only up to certain speeds, and I don't know the rule for NPPL.

Our tourneys around here don't, and my team and I have very strict rules against cheating.

If he's been playing with Spyders and wants tp start tourneys, an Ion would be an awesome choice.

Finally, something that actually applies to my question, looks like someone actually read what I typed. [/B]

I wonder how many of you guys actually read what I typed....

I think I'm going to go down to Nfinite (our local field) and ask if I can shoot a couple balls with each. I've walked them both at our local pro shop, and I liked the Electra more, but you guys are saying its in the recoil that the ION will shine. So, off to the field I go.

Dunty

08-07-2005, 07:38 AM

You think the reg on a cheap blow-back would compete with a $300 EP marker reg? Dream on..

The electra does have a cap of 30bps, the Ion has a cap of 17, the Electra could get faster speeds, but it could not handle it and could not obtain those speeds as easily.

slaminator3323

08-07-2005, 09:22 AM

One question where did you guys get the fenix from. One more thing from the stores I have seen you can get an Ion cheaper than the Electra.

Sets_Chaos

08-07-2005, 09:53 AM

Originally posted by Dunty
You think the reg on a cheap blow-back would compete with a $300 EP marker reg? Dream on..

The electra does have a cap of 30bps, the Ion has a cap of 17, the Electra could get faster speeds, but it could not handle it and could not obtain those speeds as easily.

I'm not saying it could compete, but I am saying that it isn't all that bad. They keep a good steady PSI into the gun.

Thank you, Slaminator, for actually reading and being knowledge able, instead of blatently biased. Dang.

Eladamri

08-07-2005, 10:40 AM

If you are used to the feel of a Spyder then i would say get a used upped Impulse. Every since the Ion came out the price on used Impulses has dropped considerably. You can get a very nice used Impulse relatively cheap and they have the same feel to them that Spyders, do but have alittle more weight. I would recommend at least looking at them as an option.

As for the 30 bps cap vs a 17 bps cap, it really doesn't matter. Most people can't shoot over 17 without some form of electronic assistance (eg bouncing, ramping). The main difference is that the Triggers on a Spyder isn't as nice as on the higher end markers, making it harder to hit the high bps. While you can make the Trigger on a Spyder pretty descent, I still haven't seen one that was as nice as what you could get one on a high end marker. The 30bps cap is great, but relatively useless if your trigger is holding you back. I doubt you would ever break 17 anyways in semi mode.

Also, the Spyder is blowback, making it a sear tripper. The wear and tear on the sear causes the sears to wear out or break quite often compared to how often you encounter problems with a true electropneumatic marker. You also have quite a bit more kick from a sear tripper then from the electropneumatic markers. Finally, the electronic components on a Spyder generally are of the best quality, its been the achiles heel of the Spyder Electros since they came out. They aren't nearly as water resistant as the boards in the high end markers.

While you can compete with high end electros with a spyder, the spyder just isn't the marker that the higher end guns are.

Sets_Chaos

08-07-2005, 05:19 PM

I'll probably end up getting the ion, and sucumbing to the hype, but not without a couple shots from it!

YoBoneDaddy

08-07-2005, 06:28 PM

You could also look at the Wrath, BKO, B2K, Impulse etc...

slaminator3323

08-07-2005, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by YoBoneDaddy
You could also look at the Wrath, BKO, B2K, Impulse etc...

I'd have to say it would blow them out of the water. Now the Promaster thats a different story.

GranDream

08-07-2005, 07:28 PM

Originally posted by Sets_Chaos

I think I'm going to go down to Nfinite (our local field) and ask if I can shoot a couple balls with each. I've walked them both at our local pro shop, and I liked the Electra more, but you guys are saying its in the recoil that the ION will shine. So, off to the field I go.

Best advice one could give, and you gave it to yourself;)

Algernon

08-07-2005, 09:25 PM

an electra/fenix or just about any other spyder/clone is totally out classed by the ion. the electra is re-hashed B.S. i've shot one; that damn rocking trigger is total crap. people have been toying around with the rocking trigger for years and there is no evidence to suggest that it is any better than a standard spyder trigger. after shooting one i can tell you i can confirm this. the trigger placement on the 45* is terrible that i have to curl my finger tips back just to walk it. one pull = one trip of the micro switch. it's no different than any other trigger except it has a terrible angle and a bad placement on the 45*. it's all prefrence in the end, but i do not believe the electra is worth $300. i've shot lots of spyders and spyder clones and the electra is just as fast, consistant as any other sub $200 spyder but it packs a $300 price tag.

shoot them both and if you like the feel of the electra better than get it instead. the ion's stock trigger is pretty bad but the magnet is to blame actually so try to shoot one without the magent if you can.

BPS caps and CPS speeds mean nothing. heck, in terms of CPS a $50 black dragun is faster than a $900 proto matrix. if both marker's boards were uncapped (meaning the ROF = CPS speed) then the black dragun would be faster. an ion IS faster than an electra or any other spyder because of the superior micro switch and 3 point adjust. trigger.

i still say get an impulse or a promaster. the electra's no better than any other sear tripping spyder that can be had for $150 or less. keep what you have for now and save up for something in the $350+ range. impulses are great back markers. i personally like the hight of the body, as it places the hopper up out of view and the marker's barrel is in a better position to work the top sides of bunkers in my opinion, especially with a back player.

ions are great markers for the price but you're pretty much stuck with what you have out of the box. if you want a ion to rip with $700+ markers you'll need a new board. SP's corner-cutting isn't making this very easy so i doubt there will be any new boards out for the ion anytime soon.

there's nothing wrong with shooting a spyder. as i've said before, they can rip right alone side hig-end electros with the right upgrades. i'd love to see someone pick up a good used spyder, like an old AMG, T-board it, lower the operating pressure, reduce cycling mass and slap on a good reg and barrel. there is nothing horribly wrong with a blowback that can't be adressed with aftermarket parts. spyders can be very competitive (just look at bad company) but are under rated becaue, stock out of the box, they pale in comparison to a high-end electros. it's because kingman is focused on excreating re-hashed B.S. and gimics off of their assembly line that spyders are look on so poorly by most of the PB community.

i've changed my mind. find yourself a good spyder and build it up into a high-end electro killer. there is a T-boarded AMG right here in the trading forums for $300 that is a prime example of what i'm talking about.

Mentalmonkey10

08-07-2005, 09:56 PM

^^^I AM TOTALLY AGREED WITH YOU^^^, and that is the exact thing that i am doing with my piolot acs. i say he should keep his spyder, fill it with new parts, t-board it, and let it loose on the locals. the only other sencible option that i could see you doing is geting a superstock, but $700 or whatever it is might be a little much.

Sets_Chaos

08-07-2005, 10:06 PM

Gimme a list of parts for an AMG, my bro's got one, and my other bro has got a Spyder Shutter. Give me a list of parts and I'm sure they'd love to upgrade those suckers to the max.

As far as guns go, I just found out one of my online buddies was a semi-pro at one point, and does custom work on various high-end cockers. I might be able to be hooked up with one of those.:love: We'll see though. I need to get a new gun soon, though, because I have a two-week escro(basically) with my friend on my gun. I told him I'd sell it to him soon, and I need my next gun right after, because we're having some team practices.:crazy:

unland

08-09-2005, 10:02 AM

You want to know to do to a spyder/clone, check out http://www.ottersccustoms.com/spyder.html
He got every thing from budget LP conversions to Spyder to Timmy conversions, which is what Bad Company uses.

A and Dubb

08-09-2005, 08:29 PM

I have a spyder (back up) and an ion .... TO ME there is no comparison whatsoever (sp?) my ion is faster, more accurate, more re-liable, and just plain out better. If I were you I would get the ion. But hey, if thats what you feel comfortable with then by all means get an electra 05 ...its all personal preference.

Sheps

08-09-2005, 11:20 PM

I say you should buy a cheap Spyder and convert it into an electro-pneumatic, and then conceal all of the modifications so that it still looks like a cheap Spyder; can you imagine the look on your face if you saw a guy hit 20 bps with a Victor II?

It would be pretty hilarious, wouldn't it?

ballisticpball

08-15-2005, 07:10 AM

Algernon has one extremely good point here. Pick up a refurb Imagine for $68 and an Ion. The Imagine is mechanically capped at about 50bps, whereas the Ion is mechanically capped at 17bps. Slap a Qev on there and it boosts it to about 28bps. So in other words, pay 0 attention to stupid bps numbers that Spyder throws out there. Any idiot company can make a board with a high cap. Only a good comapny however, can make a marker with a cap that's rather obtainable. With the Ion, you can rip it at about 15bps tops, and consistant at about 12bps. With a Spyder, you would be walking that at about 8bps. I used to own a Pilot ACS. There are no advantages, no strenghts to buying an Spyder. If you keep your Spyder, and up it"to the max", you'll find you only wasted a lot of money. Out of the box, Spyder are pretty much junk. Everyone seems to agree with that on a certain level. Despite that fact, the price of the Electra's are the same or more. So ask yourself this, Why pay more, for a marker that isn't as good. I know you've owned Spyder's for awhile, so your own opinion is a little biased, but the facts are the Ion is better. The Ion will compete with a lot of good high end markers, do you really think a low end Spyder could compete? As for field stripping and extra parts, my Ion has never needed to be stripped at a tourny or during a game to be cleaned, so it's no inconvienance. It really quite simple to take apart and clean. It has Vision eyes remember? As far as extra parts go, the only thing I've ever needed to fix on my Ion was an internal hose, and they come with the Ion.

Simply said, try the Ion. You'll like it. It's a hell of a lot cheaper. It's better performing. Do you want them to give them to you or what? That's the only way it could be better. (Besides the feedneck and duckbill)

ballisticpball

08-15-2005, 07:13 AM

Originally posted by Sheps
can you imagine the look on your face if you saw a guy hit 20 bps with a Victor II?

20bps? Let's think reasonable here.

usapatriot

08-15-2005, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by Dunty

ions suck dont get one. he's just an SP fanboy havent you noticed?

if I were you get a Diablo Wrath, 20bps, and about $25 cheaper than an Ion, better looking too.

http://www.actionvillage.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=4lbkM_khqHHkOrog67Ikm_Po6nsh-hSaFGs=?ProductID=SQzAqArb3QQAAAEBJKZekdnL

trust the wrath is much better. and if you want a blowback get a Misfit its a spyder clone and works identical but with an edge, also its well built and comes very good stock parts even a good stock barrel yes stock. and the reg is also good. Syndicate is also coming out with new triggers and upgrades in the fall. just drop in a 50gram and a bandit bolt misfit bolt on it and you can rip on it.

and yes the electra is faster than an Ion just get some ups and will have very little kick.

ballisticpball

08-15-2005, 04:56 PM

Okay sets-chaos, totally disregard everything usapatriot just said. If you haven't noticed, he is an idiot. The Ion sucks yet 10's of thousands have been sold. They don't suck. Just read my post. It's informative. It should help you make the final desicion.

slaminator3323

08-15-2005, 05:00 PM

You would have thuoght natural selection would have axed all the Ion haters. Sigh. The Wrath is a good gun, But the Ion is better. Also 3 bps doesn't really make a difference.

ballisticpball

08-15-2005, 05:03 PM

Chris Lasoya might make good use of the extra bps. If you know what I mean... (He has insanely fast fingers, and 3 extra bps would mean fewer seconds to nearly kill someone by shooting them in the head)

slaminator3323

08-15-2005, 05:08 PM

Good point.

N_2_paintball

08-16-2005, 06:32 AM

That would be a hard decision. I have used spyders for nine years now (which is my whole paintball career), and of course the only way you are going to own an autococker or angel living in Oklahoma, is if you get sponsored or something which might happen pretty soon if I'm lucky, but none the less. Spyders are great markers regardless of what the rich *******s tell you and I am fighting a battle rite now on weather to get the new evil omen 2.0 or stay with my 90% chrome spyder imagine. Guns grow on you and I really couldn't tell you what to do.

ballisticpball

08-16-2005, 07:23 AM

Eww...Evil Omen...

usapatriot

08-16-2005, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by ballisticpball
Okay sets-chaos, totally disregard everything usapatriot just said. If you haven't noticed, he is an idiot. The Ion sucks yet 10's of thousands have been sold. They don't suck. Just read my post. It's informative. It should help you make the final desicion.

no..... your the ion fanboy fanclub idiot.

lazyaznboi81

08-16-2005, 01:23 PM

usa patriot = :banana:noobie:banana:

ballisticpball

08-16-2005, 01:27 PM

I belong to the Ion fanclub, because I like my Ion, and it's a great marker. If I belonged to the XSV fanclub, would you be ranting about that? No. The reason why you don't like the Ion is one of two reasons. Your angry because your expensive blow-back won't compete with an Ion, or you think Smart Parts are Nazis, even though that is sooo old. No one thinks that any more buy you. Have you noticed? Even when SP did sue a lot, it's called business. God your stupid. How does a company survive in the business world, if they allow other companies to use their patented ideas.

joeryan

08-16-2005, 02:26 PM

i have the new electra and its sick. i think the only real difference is that u have to run the ion on nitro. so if u dont have that kind of money for nitro u should just get the spyder

joeryan

08-16-2005, 02:29 PM

hey ballisticpball ur a loser. do u just stay on this website all day and reply to everyones replies. get a life.

slaminator3323

08-16-2005, 03:16 PM

What the sp haters don't understand if smart parts hadn't sued someone was bound to do it eventually. You don't have to run the Ion on nitro its just recommened.

TippmannPhreak

08-16-2005, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by usapatriot

ions suck dont get one. he's just an SP fanboy havent you noticed?

if I were you get a Diablo Wrath, 20bps, and about $25 cheaper than an Ion, better looking too.

http://www.actionvillage.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=4lbkM_khqHHkOrog67Ikm_Po6nsh-hSaFGs=?ProductID=SQzAqArb3QQAAAEBJKZekdnL

trust the wrath is much better. and if you want a blowback get a Misfit its a spyder clone and works identical but with an edge, also its well built and comes very good stock parts even a good stock barrel yes stock. and the reg is also good. Syndicate is also coming out with new triggers and upgrades in the fall. just drop in a 50gram and a bandit bolt misfit bolt on it and you can rip on it.

and yes the electra is faster than an Ion just get some ups and will have very little kick.

Ions suck? How come they out-perform Wraths, Bushy's, all Spyders, and almost every other marker in the >$500 range?

The Wrath isn't any better than an Ion, and doesn't even compare, period. The Wrath is a spring-return ram, as opposed to the fully electro-pneumatic "crappy" Ion. The Ion is more efficient, due to it's "crappy" spool valve. And let's not forget the "crappy" body kits SP just released, which allow you to change the color of your gun. As opposed to the Wrath's solid, one color only body.

I do agree with the Misfit statement, though. It kicks ***.

slaminator3323

08-16-2005, 03:55 PM

You have a misfit? Btw you can take buy eff's spyder out of your sig.

TippmannPhreak

08-16-2005, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by slaminator3323
You have a misfit? Btw you can take buy eff's spyder out of your sig.

Yeah, I do. Since some dick stole my Crossy while I was taking a piss. Or I would of gotten an Ion in a heartbeat.

Anywho, I'll prolly get one when the price goes down. Or else, I'll screw up my Misfit, take it back, and put $200 down on an Ion.

PS: I'm too lazy to go to my profile at the moment, but I'll edit my sig soon.

ballisticpball

08-16-2005, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by joeryan
hey ballisticpball ur a loser. do u just stay on this website all day and reply to everyones replies. get a life.

Look buddy, just because I'm more knowledgeable than you are, and like to help people out, doesn't mean you can just flame me. I mean god, what's your problem? I'm just giving people honest advice. Just think about it for a second. Like what the hell is going to be better? A spool valve electro pneumatic marker, with Vision eyes and a magnectic trigger or a stacked tube blowback, with an electronicly operated sear and a rocking trigger. Oh yeah..and an ACS bolt. I mean come on. If you know anything at all about paintball, you'll know what's better in a heartbeat.

Algernon

08-16-2005, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by TippmannPhreak

Ions suck? How come they out-perform Wraths, Bushy's, all Spyders, and almost every other marker in the >$500 range?

Shut up, patriot. You make all Misfit owners, me included, look ignorant.

The Wrath isn't any better than an Ion, and doesn't even compare, period. The Wrath is a spring-return ram, as opposed to the fully electro-pneumatic "crappy" Ion. The Ion is more efficient, due to it's "crappy" spool valve. And let's not forget the "crappy" body kits SP just released, which allow you to change the color of your gun. As opposed to the Wrath's solid, one color only body.

I do agree with the Misfit statement, though. It kicks ***.

the ion is not the best in the sub $500 range. there are a lot of markers that are better for $500 and under, but for $299.99 they are simply unbeatible. also, prove to me that a spring returned ram is any more inferior to the EP blowforward design of the ion. wraths are fine markers and very much on par with the ion, although the ion does perform better out of the box (bar the crappy reg). asthetics are all personal prefrence, but i much prefer the look of the wrath.

in the end i do agree with you, get an ion. the ion is a great marker to make the jump to high end electros.

ballisticpball

08-16-2005, 07:19 PM

What is wrong with you people? The stock Ion reg is fine! How do you know that the Ion reg is "crappy"? I get about +/-6fps, and IMO thats pretty damn good for a stock reg. It's good enough that I won't be buying an aftermarket reg anytime in the near future.

slaminator3323

08-16-2005, 07:32 PM

Most people after its broken in get +-3-+-6

TippmannPhreak

08-16-2005, 07:39 PM

Originally posted by Algernon

the ion is not the best in the sub $500 range. there are a lot of markers that are better for $500 and under, but for $299.99 they are simply unbeatible. also, prove to me that a spring returned ram is any more inferior to the EP blowforward design of the ion. wraths are fine markers and very much on par with the ion, although the ion does perform better out of the box (bar the crappy reg). asthetics are all personal prefrence, but i much prefer the look of the wrath.

in the end i do agree with you, get an ion. the ion is a great marker to make the jump to high end electros.

Okay, in the >$300 stock. I mislead. I know I'd rather have the new Promaster if I had a few hundred bucks.

Algernon

08-16-2005, 09:30 PM

my 7 year old angel gets + - 2. my teammates with ions get + - 7 at best. that's decent, but not great. it's "crappy" beacue it is not consistant throughout the PSI range and it is not as good a reg as some found on similar priced markers. the diablo wrath gets + - 6 out of the box and is the same reg found high end timmys and is fairly consistant at diffrent PSI. i can live with + - 7 but i want to be able to run my marker in the 290s. i've never seen a stock ion reg run consistantly at those velocities. i do however, have one sitting on my backup E rex right now, so don't think i hate the reg... i picked the thing up for free and i get + - 8 with it.

YoBoneDaddy

08-17-2005, 03:58 AM

Someone said earlier that the ion was a more efficient design than the Wrath. I believe that is incorrect. The wrath gets more shots/fill than an Ion. Just figured I'd clear that up (probably because it only uses air to push the ram forward not return it (the spring does that).

Eladamri

08-17-2005, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by N_2_paintball
That would be a hard decision. I have used spyders for nine years now (which is my whole paintball career), and of course the only way you are going to own an autococker or angel living in Oklahoma, is if you get sponsored or something which might happen pretty soon if I'm lucky, but none the less.

I live in Oklahoma and have owned several guns including an Autococker and Automag before having any sponsors and know plenty of people that own high end markers. That statement is just asinine and untrue.

Going on, My stock Ion reg gets +-3 bps which is as good as or better then any other reg I've ever owned. Maybe I just got lucky and got the best reg ever put on a Ion but really I think the "horrible" reg is just greatly exaggerated.

Algernon made the statement that the Ion is not the best marker for under $500, I think that is simply a matter of opinion and personal preference. Personally, I hate shooting stacked tube markers. I started with a M98, then shot Mags and Cockers and I am extremely partial to inline markers. I feel more comfortable with a single tube marker like the Ion in my grubby little hands rather than a stacked tube marker, but that is just me. There are allot of good markers out there for $200 - $500 now. None of them are horrible, and truthfully a good player could use any one of them equally well, it is all just personal preference.

I'm not really sure how this thread turned into a Ion v every other marker on the planet thread, but that seems to be the theme when someone mentions the Ion.

I'll make it easy. Any Electro-pneumatic vs. any Blow back sear tripper. Electro-pneumatic is teh win.