The Electra IS legal!!

[KoLaZ]

I recently emailed the NPPL about the Electra, it is legal for tourny play (Says the NPPL President himself) This is for all those who think it's illegal and have been told it's illegal.

[slaminator3323]

We don't really care.

[swany]

slaminator Please keep it to yourself. Some of us do care. Also someday you will come up against an 05 electra and then you will know why we care.

[slaminator3323]

It's still overpriced. Not many people buy them for that kind of money.

[di$TOrTed]

actually i believe a large number of people have been buying them, mainly ppl new to the sport because they think they will be invincible

[slaminator3323]

Dammit misinformed newbs.

[NSGSplatmaster]

Hate to say it but there are a lot of "misinformed noobs" on the Ion bandwagon too.

Answers to pending flame:

1. Yeah, well YOUR mom!
2. No, YOU ARE LOLOL.

[GranDream]

Originally posted by KoLaZ
I recently emailed the NPPL about the Electra, it is legal for tourny play (Says the NPPL President himself) This is for all those who think it's illegal and have been told it's illegal.


Uhhh, wanna post the email?

[KoLaZ]

----- Original Message -----
From: ian
To: rules@nppl.tv
Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 3:12 PM
Subject: Spyder Rocking Trigger?


I know you may have gotten many emails about this already, but since the rocking trigger on shoots once per (each) trigger pull, is it still tournament legal?

Thanks- Ian


Thanks for your email. The Rocking trigger is ok to use.
Best Regards,


Chuck Hendsch
NPPL President
www.nppl.tv
714 536 9050
714 536 0676 fax
Platinum Sponsors
Archon, Chronic, Kingman, Raven, WDP, Angel,WGP, Viewloader, JT USA
National Paintball Supply, Empire, Planet Eclipse

[greg1113]

but honestly we dont care becasue none of us would buy a 300+ dollar blowback four tourneys

[G 2]

THE IMPORTANT PART IS NOT THE ELECTRA!!! Its that the rocking trigger frame is in fact legal and many ppl thought it wasnt so in your face to those ppl!

[paintballer8807]

what kind of idiot would shoot a cheap spyder in a tourney?

i think they would rather have there ramping trixes and bouncing timmys

[iliveforthis99]

I'd rather play w/ a blind 04 bko or imp in tourneys then this over priced spyder. And yeah come on there are way better guns for less money.

[Dunty]

Originally posted by G 2
THE IMPORTANT PART IS NOT THE ELECTRA!!! Its that the rocking trigger frame is in fact legal and many ppl thought it wasnt so in your face to those ppl!


When, they could have said whatever they wanted, because no one is going into even a semi-big tourney with a blow-back.

[ballisticpball]

The NPPL contradicted themselves. They said a paintball marker is only allowed to have one point of acutation. Well, excuse me if I'm incorrect, but the Electra has 2. If someone wants to, ask the President Mr. Chuck Hendsch if the NPPL would allow you to use a PGI Osiris equipped with a rocking trigger frame. Yes, that's right, not only Kingman markers can be outfitted with rocking frames. In my opinion, Mr. Hendsch was probably just giving you a quick answer to your question, or is unfarmiliar with the rules the association, that he is President of. If you posed the question with the marker PGI Osiris in place of Kingman Electra, he may actually take you seriously, as he would not expect anyone to play in the NPPL with the rocking frame. Know what the best thing to do is? Call up all your local fields where you intend to play tournaments, and ask them if they would allow you to use a rocking frame of any description. Base your desicion on that.

[KoLaZ]

Originally posted by ballisticpball
The NPPL contradicted themselves. They said a paintball marker is only allowed to have one point of acutation. Well, excuse me if I'm incorrect, but the Electra has 2. If someone wants to, ask the President Mr. Chuck Hendsch if the NPPL would allow you to use a PGI Osiris equipped with a rocking trigger frame. Yes, that's right, not only Kingman markers can be outfitted with rocking frames. In my opinion, Mr. Hendsch was probably just giving you a quick answer to your question, or is unfarmiliar with the rules the association, that he is President of. If you posed the question with the marker PGI Osiris in place of Kingman Electra, he may actually take you seriously, as he would not expect anyone to play in the NPPL with the rocking frame. Know what the best thing to do is? Call up all your local fields where you intend to play tournaments, and ask them if they would allow you to use a rocking frame of any description. Base your desicion on that. "6.02 Trigger. A “trigger” is the moveable lever or button that comes in contact with the finger. The contacts of a switch are not the trigger. A trigger pull requires an exertion of force by the finger on the trigger and a release of force by the finger on the trigger during every shooting cycle. Markers may shoot any rate of fire, and may shoot any number of paintballs, provided that it shoots in semi or pump mode only. This means that no more than one paintball may be discharged during each shooting cycle of a trigger pull."

No more than one point of acutation per trigger pull. It may have two, as long as they do not both discharge during each trigger pull. They fire at seperate trigger pulls, there are merely two of them.

[ballisticpball]

Fine. You win. However, I believe that some fields do not allow the rocking frames regardless. You should still consult your local fields before ordering an Electra. However, in the price range of the Electra, it's still obselete. If only people with low paintball intelligence would stop buying them...

[G 2]

Originally posted by ballisticpball
However, in the price range of the Electra, it's still obselete. If only people with low paintball intelligence would stop buying them...

Does it matter that no one will actually play with them? NO! So everyone stop saying that its irrelevent.

[Dunty]

Originally posted by G 2


Does it matter that no one will actually play with them? NO! So everyone stop saying that its irrelevent.

Yes, yes it does, it means that the NPPL could say whatever they wanted because they figured no one would use one, but still make you happy.

[G 2]

and what if someone actually does show up with one?:eyes:

Also it has been clarified in another thread that the rocking frame is legal. Im in my computer class in skool now so i wont go looking for it but Ill post it up when i get bach home. ;)

[usapatriot]

Originally posted by greg1113
but honestly we dont care becasue none of us would buy a 300+ dollar blowback four tourneys

who said we wouldnt?????:mad:


thing is ur mad because now u know your gonna get pwned by electras since people will buy them more.


:laugh:

[ballisticpball]

I think I could kick your *** if I was throwing paintballs. It wouldn't matter what marker I was using.

[someday1188]

Originally posted by KoLaZ
"6.02 Trigger. A “trigger” is the moveable lever or button that comes in contact with the finger. The contacts of a switch are not the trigger. A trigger pull requires an exertion of force by the finger on the trigger and a release of force by the finger on the trigger during every shooting cycle. Markers may shoot any rate of fire, and may shoot any number of paintballs, provided that it shoots in semi or pump mode only. This means that no more than one paintball may be discharged during each shooting cycle of a trigger pull."

ok, since this thread seems to be completely devoid of any logic at all, i'm going to experiment here and inject some :rolleyes:.

*unsheathes owning stick*

you say the rocking trigger is classified as a single trigger eh? well let us first define a trigger. what actually triggers a gun? it's not the lever you pull, it is the actual firing mechanism (read as: microswitch) that activates the marker. the electra has 2 switches, and thereby two triggers, and thereby illegal. the thread starter misrepresented the rocking trigger in his email to Mr. Hendsch, saying that it was "semi automatic" by nppl definitions. I.E. but since the rocking trigger on shoots once per (each) trigger pull, is it still tournament legal?

Mr. Hendsch, being the busy man he is, read this and was obviously mislead into thinking the rocking trigger was legal because it fired in "semi automatic" mode, when in fact the rocking trigger fires in rebound mode, firing twice per cycle of the trigger, assuming it is used as designed. i am sure that Mr. Hendsch, when presented with the correct facts as they are would rule the rocking trigger illegal.

the rocking trigger, when used as designed, fires in rebound mode by allowing 2 shots per cycle of the trigger and is therefore illegal by NPPL, PSP, NXL, CFOA, and Millenium series rules.



To paraphrase G2,
In.Your.Goddamn.Face.

Now get back to your hole.

Originally posted by usapatriot


who said we wouldnt?????:mad:


thing is ur mad because now u know your gonna get pwned by electras since people will buy them more.

Do you really, truly, honestly want to piss me off? Just how dumb are you? :eyes:


Anybody else? Didn't think so.

[G 2]

Originally posted by KoLaZ
"6.02 Trigger. A “trigger” is the moveable lever or button that comes in contact with the finger. The contacts of a switch are not the trigger. A trigger pull requires an exertion of force by the finger on the trigger and a release of force by the finger on the trigger during every shooting cycle. Markers may shoot any rate of fire, and may shoot any number of paintballs, provided that it shoots in semi or pump mode only. This means that no more than one paintball may be discharged during each shooting cycle of a trigger pull."

No more than one point of acutation per trigger pull. It may have two, as long as they do not both discharge during each trigger pull. They fire at seperate trigger pulls, there are merely two of them.

get it now?

[someday1188]

"6.02 Trigger. A “trigger” is the moveable lever or button that comes in contact with the finger. The contacts of a switch are not the trigger. A trigger pull requires an exertion of force by the finger on the trigger and a release of force by the finger on the trigger during every shooting cycle. Markers may shoot any rate of fire, and may shoot any number of paintballs, provided that it shoots in semi or pump mode only. This means that no more than one paintball may be discharged during each shooting cycle of a trigger pull."

a cycle of a trigger means that the trigger's switch goes from the activated position to the deactivated position and then back to the activated position again. if the rocking frame is used as designed, there is an additional ball shot by the other side of the trigger for every release of the one side of the trigger. this allowing the rocking trigger to operate in rebound mode and making it illegal.

Get it now?

[KoLaZ]

"6.02 Trigger. A “trigger” is the moveable lever or button that comes in contact with the finger. The contacts of a switch are not the trigger. A trigger pull requires an exertion of force by the finger on the trigger and a release of force by the finger on the trigger during every shooting cycle. Markers may shoot any rate of fire, and may shoot any number of paintballs, provided that it shoots in semi or pump mode only. This means that no more than one paintball may be discharged during each shooting cycle of a trigger pull." Your first post was in itself wrong, you mis-stated the rule, a trigger is the moveable lever or button that comes in contact with the finger The contacts of a switch are not a trigger. It fires once each trigger pull, therefore it is legal. Rebound mode is ONE switch firing when it is pulled, and firing when it is released. There are two switches, not one. Each trigger pull is a different cycle.

[G 2]

someday: Each time the lever goes down and up, that is two firing cycles, not one, so it is legal.

Kolaz: yes you are right.

[Algernon]

if the rocking frame is used as designed, there is an additional ball shot by the other side of the trigger for every release of the one side of the trigger.

no. the trigger returns to it's equilibrium position after it is released and in doing so there is no more than one trip of a micro switch in that cycle from equilibrium position to micro switch, then back equilibrium position again. bounce is a whole 'nother can of worms though.

[swany]

Great explanation, but, you may have used to big of words for some of these people.
I play speedball and X-ball. I use an 05 Electra and it has always kept up, ball for ball, with the best guns out there. It has been legal everywhere I've been. The guys from team diesel liked it. So buy it, don't buy it, don't care.

Thanks
swany

[Algernon]

just out of curiosity where do you play?

[swany]

Action Jacks and Metro Paintball in Council Bluffs.
and you?

I too am athiest

[Algernon]

i play at MPG too. i just started plaing there acutally. i used to play at the old field that shares the same parking lot of MPG but i got out of the sport, and i 'm now back in. it's nice to see a local 'baller.

[silverbeast5000]

i say instead of investing in a spyder ,if you already have one, to get a cheap highend marker such as a wrath, ion, promaster, or odyssey o2. They all cost about the same as the electra, a couple are less, but will blow it away in performance. For any current Spyder owner thinking about buying an electra for tournies don't get one. The double trigger is simply a different style of double trigger. When is the last time anyone could wiggle their fingers near 25-30bps. Invest in a cheap highend marker and you wont be dissapointed. Also if you do get one get a nitro tank or you will damage the gun. A nitro tank is probably the best upgrade for any gun anyways if you dont have one.

[shoktek91]

Originally posted by NSGSplatmaster
Hate to say it but there are a lot of "misinformed noobs" on the Ion bandwagon too.

Answers to pending flame:

1. Yeah, well YOUR mom!
2. No, YOU ARE LOLOL.

thats very true. most newbs think the ion is a great hunk of plastic, but its actually just a REALLY REALLY watered down version of the impy. slower, and everything in it breaks. looking for the bolt is like diggin for gold.

[iliveforthis99]

Originally posted by shoktek91


thats very true. most newbs think the ion is a great hunk of plastic, but its actually just a REALLY REALLY watered down version of the impy. slower, and everything in it breaks. looking for the bolt is like diggin for gold.
Oh really the only thing that's broken on my ion is the part of the trigg where the magnet is. And that was my fault. And can't we just end this thread? No one in there right mind would take a low end spyder into a semi-pro or pro tourney IMO. [/thread]

[swany]

If you want to go pro go right ahead. You'll probably starve to death.
My son was offered a position with team Diesel. It paid $400 a week when they played, BUT, you were responsible for all expenses including paintballs, room, eats, transportation, etc. Fame is not worth dying for.
Get a job, stay amateur, and have fun.

[swany]

OH by the way, you use the sponsors guns so there is no arguing about what gun is better.

[slaminator3323]

Still the sponsers gun may suck, so you know there is argument.

[swany]

Wow! You're an Idiot. Please just go back to your ion forum with the other ion sheep.

[Dunty]

Originally posted by shoktek91


thats very true. most newbs think the ion is a great hunk of plastic, but its actually just a REALLY REALLY watered down version of the impy. slower, and everything in it breaks. looking for the bolt is like diggin for gold.


You should really try a marker, or at least know what it is, before you make claims as stupid as that, I don't know much about Imps, but I have just read the reviews, and the stock board is capped at 13.7bps, the Ion's board is capped at 17...Nimrod... The Ion does not break down like crazy, you obviously know nothing about them, they take less matinence than your blow-back.

This is for you :dodgy:

[silverbeast5000]

Umm...Dunty you own a spyder. The ion is not better than an impulse and by no means is the ion faster. I beleive the board is capped at 13.7 or whatever with the eyes off with the eyes on it can shoot over 20bps.

[slaminator3323]

I think the non-vision impy is capped at 13.7bps, and the vision is capped at 20bps. Stock for stock the Ion is better, now on the other hand upp'ed impy> upp'ed Ion, until a crapload of stuff comes out of the Ion. IMO I wouldn't want to buy a discontinued marker anyway.

[iliveforthis99]

Yes a blind imp is capped at 13.7bps. And my friend has a imp and before he got vision i got to shoot it. And simply both of us saw that my ion was the better. Originally posted by shoktek91
looking for the bolt is like diggin for gold.
Do you mean in the gun or at a store? If in the gun um i don't think you saw this but that long part above the grip frame. That's where the bolt is and it's has easy as 1,2,3 to get to it.

[shoktek91]

Idk dude ive taken the ion apart before and its sort of a ***** lol. especially when you break a ball. but like with the wrath and certain other guns you pull the bolt pin and the gun is ready to clean in a second. quickstrip thats the word.

[iliveforthis99]

True it is harder to take apart w/ the shell. But i've never chopped ball in the breach yet so it's not a big deal to me.

[hamsterman12]

ok i have a o5 spyder imagnie 05 led (the black one) anyways i would get one. it is nasty fast. it is equpped with a cp 13 inch barrel and is dead accurate. even though it says it fires 13 bps it is around 16 or 17 with a cheap electronic hopper. also it gets complaiments by people with angels and people with wraths and junk.so get one and u will love it just upgrade the barrel and hopper and internals to a aftermarket board and it will fire 18 to 23 balls a second

[iliveforthis99]

What kind of loader do you use?

[viks]

Originally posted by paintballer8807
what kind of idiot would shoot a cheap spyder in a tourney?

You, sir insulted me. I challenge you to a E- duel

[silverbeast5000]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :pinocch:

[iliveforthis99]

Originally posted by viks

You, sir insulted me. I challenge you to a E- duel
I'd think you'd lose big time.

[slaminator3323]

Originally posted by viks

You, sir insulted me. I challenge you to a E- duel
Too bad he was banned. Other than that, the Imagine Led cannot fire past 13bps with a stock board, if you were firing 23bps with a blowback I applaud your strength.

[hamsterman12]

i use a revolution (the newest one but not thev egg) and a 13 inch cp black silver fade barrel.and a trigger kit so i could tighten up the trigger pull but i still have orginal trigger.

[Dunty]

Originally posted by slaminator3323

Too bad he was banned. Other than that, the Imagine Led cannot fire past 13bps with a stock board, if you were firing 23bps with a blowback I applaud your strength.


And pirate-like magic abilities...:dodgy:


But seriously, why can't you guys grasp the concept that blow-backs aren't that fast?

[slaminator3323]

Originally posted by hamsterman12
i use a revolution (the newest one but not thev egg) and a 13 inch cp black silver fade barrel.and a trigger kit so i could tighten up the trigger pull but i still have orginal trigger.
HAHA you can't shoot past 13.3 bps with a revy, probably less because of the blowback.

[hamsterman12]

ya i can i said mine doesnt have a stock board. sry if i forgot to put that

[slaminator3323]

You still have a revy which can't go that fast.

[silverbeast5000]

dude... you're both noobs. only a force hopper like an egg or halo b can feed that fast. but i bet the spyder guy can shoot faster then the ion guy.

[Dunty]

Originally posted by silverbeast5000
dude... you're both noobs. only a force hopper like an egg or halo b can feed that fast. but i bet the spyder guy can shoot faster then the ion guy.



Well, it's not smart to call someone a noob and then say something stupid in your next sentence..The egg is not a true force fed loader, it's more a hyrbrid of an agitated and a force fed..As for the Spyder-Ion thing, blow-backs are mechanically capped way lower than the Ions, for example, the Electra is capped at 30bps, the Ion at 17, which do you think is faster? The Ion is, because of course it's a higher quality marker, and, the trigger is awesome, but it's actually able to handle those types of speeds.

[silverbeast5000]

i wasnt talking about the guns speed, i was talking about how fast those guys could walk. of course an ion is better but everyone just ramps with them.

[shoktek91]

Originally posted by slaminator3323

HAHA you can't shoot past 13.3 bps with a revy, probably less because of the blowback.

Actually blowback guns can be fast, i can shoot 15 with my pilot stock board, but shooting that with a revvy, good freakin luck lol.

[slaminator3323]

I know blowbacks can cycle fast, but I'm saying since th revvy can only feed around 12 bps consistently even less with the blowback up the feedneck. BTW silverbeast when you said noobs wa that directed toward me? If so explain why.

[hamsterman12]

good point. i am saying it can shoot 18 bps it cant load that fast cuz of hopper but it can shoot that fast. lol i am gettn a halo for christmas so it all good

[Dunty]

Originally posted by hamsterman12
good point. i am saying it can shoot 18 bps it cant load that fast cuz of hopper but it can shoot that fast. lol i am gettn a halo for christmas so it all good

Ha...I seriously want to see a vid of you hitting 18, care to list your setup?

[IronCorps]

I talked to that /\ guy before. From what i hear, i think hes reliable and trustworthy. No reason to doubt him without sufficient evidence i suppose.

[hamsterman12]

ok here it is


tboard
stock trigger
revvy
shocktech bolt
cp low preasure valve
cp regulater fore grip

now you beleive me even though itcant shhot 18 balls out cuz of hopper it can hit 18+ in dry fireing

[iliveforthis99]

Originally posted by silverbeast5000
i wasnt talking about the guns speed, i was talking about how fast those guys could walk. of course an ion is better but everyone just ramps with them. Not everyone uses ramping. I don't and ramping is illegal at most fields. Dry firing is faster then actually shooting paint i think.

[hamsterman12]

it is a little by like 1 ball or 2 but i can shoot 20 so it evens out

[iliveforthis99]

I'd still like to see a vid before i believe.

[Dunty]

As would I..

[hamsterman12]

i will later need to get one more upgrade then it will be boss

[GranDream]

I'd wouldn't want to try 18bps on a blowback or even a Ep without eyes. That's just begging for a chop.

[Dunty]

Originally posted by hamsterman12
i will later need to get one more upgrade then it will be boss



:rolleyes: I'd love to see you do that...20bps is out of the question.

[IronCorps]

Electra-legal yes that much is for sure

comparing electra 05 to ion, dumb. BB vs EP, 2 different classes, shouldnt be mixed.

Looks: ion aint pretty.
compfort:electra still uses cheap grip panels

speed:ion has 17 stock, pretty good
electra is pullin 30 easy with that rebound...too bad THATS not legal :P

price:bout the same
simplicity:argueably, the electra is simpler, and in the world of paintball (just ask tippmann or armotech) simple means better. more reliable. period.

Metal vs plastic/aluminum-ions lighter.

It all goes down to your style. What fits you best, buy that. Dont argue, its all paintball.

[slaminator3323]

I think the Ion is simpler due to one moving part. Looks is your opinion, I think it looks pretty good.

[GranDream]

Originally posted by IronCorps


simplicity:argueably, the electra is simpler, and in the world of paintball (just ask tippmann or armotech) simple means better. more reliable. period.



Wait a tic. By simplicity, are you talking about strippability or operation? Because the Electra is most likely more simple in the strippability department, but what could be more simple than the Ion operation wise? It has one moving part.

[silverbeast5000]

i dont even know why i ever bothered to post in this thread:eyes:

[ballisticpball]

Originally posted by hamsterman12
ok here it is


tboard
stock trigger
revvy
shocktech bolt
cp low preasure valve
cp regulater fore grip

now you beleive me even though itcant shhot 18 balls out cuz of hopper it can hit 18+ in dry fireing

Ya huh. And how exactly do you know you can shot 18bps dry firing? A chrono can't read air...

[shoktek91]

dude the t-board may be able to get the gun up to 18-20 but that doesnt mean you can shoot that fast. besides unless you broke down a revvy and upgraded it like a pro then theres no way your shootin 18.

[Sheps]

BTW, whoever said the Impulse is better than the ION...
Originally posted by amzng_spyderman

uh, yeah. imps are overweight suck machines. i'm still kicking myself for buying one.

[John Sullivan]

Yeah everyone is realizing imps suck nowadays. Trading forums here and on pbn are flooded with imps. ion>imp>spyder

[slaminator3323]

Fully upped Imps don't suck.

[IronCorps]

Yeah, the imps id say are better than ions. But thats just because i like older smart parts products.

[Dunty]

Originally posted by IronCorps
Yeah, the imps id say are better than ions. But thats just because i like older smart parts products.


Stock Ion>Stock Impulse, there's a reason the Ion replaced it. The Impulse was older technology and the Ion is the next generation, and remember, the Ion came out in the Winter, so just give it some time, t'will get some upgrades for it soon, it comes with Impulse barrel threads..

[iliveforthis99]

Originally posted by IronCorps
Yeah, the imps id say are better than ions. But thats just because i like older smart parts products. No they are not. I've shot my friends imp both stock and w/ vision. And both him and me thought the ion was better. Well upped imp is about = to a stock ion.

[IronCorps]

The only reason i might take an ion over an imp is the hieght profile. Them imps are like, whoa. way too high. And if you use an apache loader..that wont end up clean.

[iliveforthis99]

Yeah haven't put my apache on his yet but i'd imagine it would be be high up. Even w/ his ccm no rise.

[ballisticpball]

Originally posted by Dunty
and remember, the Ion came out in the Winter, so just give it some time, t'will get some upgrades for it soon, it comes with Impulse barrel threads..


The Ion is incredibly upgradeable now. Every part on it change be changed with a better one. There may not be a whole lot of manufactuers out there making certain products, but they are still available. For instance, new reg, barrel, feedneck, trigger, grips, asa, larger bore macro, trigger frame, body, board (predator's can be installed), Qev, bolt. See? the only thing that's not really upgradeable (but in the works), is the firing chamber.

[slaminator3323]

Notice, stock imps suck, fully upped used ones don't.

[iliveforthis99]

Originally posted by ballisticpball
See? the only thing that's not really upgradeable (but in the works), is the firing chamber. Lucky stage 2. That's a firing chamber.

[slaminator3323]

So everything.

[OC Assasin]

Wow, you flew off topic incredibly fast (start a new f&%$ing thread!!). Does anyone know a better gun than the ion or electra.. haha i know i know, new thread...

[Lopez17]

This thread had digressed into a heated argument way off the topic of the original thread.

In the future guys, watch the personal attacks and stick to the topic at hand.