Why is there such a divide? [Archive]

Smakman

01-26-2002, 01:27 PM

Has anyone else noticed the divide that seems to exist between speedball players and scenario players? There are those who enjoy playing both woods and speedball both, but then there are some who play nothing but speedball and would like to see woodsball and scenario gaming banned altogether as if they are the only ones who have any right to decide how and where paintball should be played. They seem to see themselves as "athletes" playing a "sport" and are opposed to recball/woodsball/scenario players who play a "game" and are damaging to "their sport" because they play with a black gun instead of a shiny annodized one.

Most scenario players I have been around seem to be a pretty "live and let live" bunch. They pretty much just want to be left alone with their friends to enjoy their game. I don't care for speedball myself, but how someone else wants to play is none of my business. If that is what they enjoy, good for them, I don't give them crap for wearing their brightly colored outfits that look like clown clothes to me, so why should they give us woodsballers/scenario gamers crap for wearing cammies and playing in the woods where the game started in the first place? If it weren't for recball players, paintball would be a failing industry. It isn't the tourny players who support the biggest part of the sales in the paintball industry. As scenario and recball players, we should be thanked for helping support the industry that lets us all have fun. And don't think that scenario gaming is on the way out either. It is growing constantly. I am betting that it will be far bigger than speedball/tourny play in the future.

So why do some of the "speedball only" crowd have to look down their noses at the scenario players?

MuckRaker

01-26-2002, 01:43 PM

Gee, I've never heard of anyone wanting to completely do away with any form of paintball ... Must be some hardcore players in yer neck of the woods (no pun intended).

bigbobmegadeth

01-26-2002, 01:55 PM

that is an interesting point, i like more of a speedball game. but i like to play walk on as well. My dad plays paintball to, and he sucks at speedball, he is all about woods ball an senario paintball and he kicks *** at it. i am not very good at woods ball and senario games because i am not patient enuff(and because i think camo is ***, i use a hawian shirt). when im not at a field i normaly play on my friends property and it is mostly woods and i do horible, my friends used to think i sucked untill we went to a speedball field and i absolutely killed them. i think most of the "all speedball" players just arent good at woods ball and it pisses them off. mabey im wrong, just my 2 cents

elTwitcho

01-26-2002, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by Smakman
Has anyone else noticed the divide that seems to exist between speedball players and scenario players? There are those who enjoy playing both woods and speedball, but then there are those who play nothing but speedball and would like to see woodsball and scenario gaming banned altogether as if they are the only ones who have any right to decide how and where paintball should be played. They seem to see themselves as "athletes" playing a "sport" as opposed to recball players who play a "game" and are damaging to "their sport".

Scenario players, on the other hand, seem to be a pretty "live and let live" bunch. They pretty much just want to be left alone to enjoy their game. I don't care for speedball myself, but how someone else wants to play is none of my business.

Why do so many of the "speedball only" crowd look down their noses at the scenario players?

How can you make a thread like this, under the pretense of being enlightened enough to see past this divide, and then make the broad generalizations that you go on to make. Basically, what I get from your post is

--------------------------------------------------------------
As for speedball players, these guys play nothing but speedball and are big jerks who all want to see woodsplay banned. They think they're all high and mighty and that they should be the one with the right to decide how paintball is played.

Scenario players, on the other hand seem to be a pretty nice bunch of people, where speedball players are not. They pretty much want to be left alone and play, unlike speedball jerks who are always up in my face
--------------------------------------------------------------

There's alot of woods players who seem to get up in people's faces as well. There's alot of "Any loser can sit behind a bunker and spray paint with no skill", yeah, not like you have to dodge any of that paint either... There's attitude from both sides, the only problem is no side is willing to admit they're all fault. It's always "the other guys are big pricks and we're just trying to enjoy our game".

That's why we have a divide, and that's why there will probably always be one

Codestar20

01-26-2002, 02:11 PM

I am not that great at woods call because I like a fast paced game that is intense and fun. I also am not patient enough to sit in the same spot for very long. When I play in my friend's woods most of them wear camo while a few of us wear sweatshirts and jeans and stuff like that. Paintball is paintball. Either way it's fun and some people like different types of games.

Smakman

01-26-2002, 02:53 PM

el Twitcho, why don't you read what I wrote? I did NOT use words like "all" for a reason, but you did. Not ALL speedball only players are jerks, but some are when it comes to scenario gaming. Not ALL scenario only players are saints either, some are jerks. Most of the attitude comes from the speedball only crowd from what I have seen though.

I would like for you to quote a "broad generalization" that I made. I said that some speedball only players look down their noses at scenario gamers and I believe that to be true.

You seem to read more than exists between the lines. Do I detect a little bias there?

SEPHIROTH_086

01-26-2002, 03:45 PM

I only play speedball but I wanna play a scenario game, the only thing that pisses me off about scenario games is that its mostly the only thing they talk about in pball magazines!!!

death

01-26-2002, 03:51 PM

well, i like both, but woods more. speedball to me is more expensive, whenever i play, it's like spray and pray. thats not too great for my wallet. but serious speedball is really fun.

UTLadiesMan

01-26-2002, 04:21 PM

I'm with Twitchy on this one. (why do we agree so often?)

Anyway, when I read Smakman's first post, I was like "Gee... that post wasn't one sided at all... :rolleyes: "

I'm a speedball guy through and through, but I have nothing against you woodsball guys. As long as you have fun and don't damage property or piss off people, I'm cool with it. Just be careful on the generalizations. Everyone hates anyone that makes generalizations. (yes, that was a joke.)

Smakman

01-26-2002, 05:35 PM

Hey, I'm just going by what I have witnessed. I know people who will play paintball in any form they can and they are always telling me how tourny only players at the tournies they go to are dissing woodsball and scenario gaming. Like I said, I don't have much interest in speedball, though I do have a section set up for it at my field because that's what some customers want to play. If that is what turns you on, great. I just get sick of hearing about how I'm a stupid hick because I would rather play a more military style of paintball in the woods with a black gun instead of with a shiny chrome gun on a small flat field where everyone knows where every one else is from the very start. To each his own.

UTLadiesMan

01-26-2002, 06:08 PM

Has anyone on this board called you a stupid hick for playing woodsball?
No

Don't rant to us, go ***** at the guys you're angry at. Again, every person is different, as soon as you start to make generalizations you just alienate more people that had nothing against you in the first place.

Smakman

01-26-2002, 06:20 PM

Once again, quote a generalization I made.

UTLadiesMan

01-26-2002, 07:09 PM

Originally posted by Smakman
...but then there are those who play nothing but speedball and would like to see woodsball and scenario gaming banned altogether as if they are the only ones who have any right to decide how and where paintball should be played. They seem to see themselves as "athletes" playing a "sport" as opposed to recball players who play a "game" and are damaging to "their sport"....

Scenario players, on the other hand, seem to be a pretty "live and let live" bunch. They pretty much just want to be left alone to enjoy their game....

...Why do so many of the "speedball only" crowd look down their noses at the scenario players?...

...but many are when it comes to scenario gaming. Not ALL scenario only players are saints either, some are jerks. Most of the attitude comes from the speedball only crowd from what I have seen though.

...tourny only players at the tournies they go to are dissing woodsball and scenario gaming....I just get sick of hearing about how I'm a stupid hick because I would rather play a more military style of paintball in the woods with a black gun instead of with a shiny chrome gun on a small flat field where everyone knows where every one else is from the very start...

Well, true, you never said "ALL" or "NONE". You did however say "MANY" and "SOME", depending on good point or bad point.

'Some' implies a few, or for arguments sake, less than half.
'Many' imples more than a few, or for arguments sake, more than half.

'Ok, so MANY tourny player's are ****s, as are SOME woods players.'

I get from this that a higher percentage of tourny players are ****s than woods ball players. That is a generalization, as in a general rule.

"General - Affecting or characteristic of the majority of those involved; prevalent."

So, a majority of tourny players are ****s. A majority of woods players are nice. Gee, seems like a generalization to me...

Originally posted by Smakman
Do I detect a little bias there?

Well, I sure detect one in your posts...

If I said "Many Fords suck", I'm sure I would get a lot of flack from the Ford lovers out there... Anyway, it all seems rather academic at this point anyway so let's not even start a long rant over the technicalities of generalizations, because that will get us nowhere and waste a lot of time.

Regardless, your post came off as very one handed to at least a few of us because you cleary iterated that most tourny players hate woods ball people, but woods ball people are all cool, making them superior in some fashion. Maybe our comments seem a bit one sided to you as well. My point is, we are not who you are mad at, so don't ***** at us. If someone actually calls you a stupid hick, then unleash on him, for we have done nothing to you. Don't hate all tourny players because one of them spat on your shoe. I don't hate all Fords because mine broke down on me.

Smakman

01-26-2002, 07:25 PM

Who said I was mad at anybody? You are one who is using the words "most" and "all" not me. Assume what you like. I just asked a simple question. Methinks you doth protest too much.

Paint Bulley

01-26-2002, 07:32 PM

As long as it's paintball who cares what type it is??

It's like street ball, college ball, d league, pro ball

The higher you get, you get benefits, but it makes it no more or less fun then street ball, just mabye a little less glamorous

UTLadiesMan

01-26-2002, 07:37 PM

Seeing as you are always right no matter what and nothing I say will get through to you, this will be my final post on this thread.

j7million

01-26-2002, 09:51 PM

I like all paintball ;-D I'd love to be able to go to a scenerio game sometime. . . I'v played speed ball tournies and play rec woods ball. . It's all good ;)

BTW You can make woods ball fast and intense if you try :-)

elTwitcho

01-27-2002, 06:44 AM

Originally posted by UTLadiesMan

Well, true, you never said "ALL" or "NONE". You did however say "MANY" and "SOME", depending on good point or bad point.

'Some' implies a few, or for arguments sake, less than half.
'Many' imples more than a few, or for arguments sake, more than half.

'Ok, so MANY tourny player's are ****s, as are SOME woods players.'

I get from this that a higher percentage of tourny players are ****s than woods ball players. That is a generalization, as in a general rule.

"General - Affecting or characteristic of the majority of those involved; prevalent."

So, a majority of tourny players are ****s. A majority of woods players are nice. Gee, seems like a generalization to me...

Well, I sure detect one in your posts...

If I said "Many Fords suck", I'm sure I would get a lot of flack from the Ford lovers out there... Anyway, it all seems rather academic at this point anyway so let's not even start a long rant over the technicalities of generalizations, because that will get us nowhere and waste a lot of time.

Regardless, your post came off as very one handed to at least a few of us because you cleary iterated that most tourny players hate woods ball people, but woods ball people are all cool, making them superior in some fashion. Maybe our comments seem a bit one sided to you as well. My point is, we are not who you are mad at, so don't ***** at us. If someone actually calls you a stupid hick, then unleash on him, for we have done nothing to you. Don't hate all tourny players because one of them spat on your shoe. I don't hate all Fords because mine broke down on me.

Wow man, I didn't even have to type what I wanted to say thanks to this message. Biitchin

Smakman

01-27-2002, 07:30 AM

This is what I'm talking about.

By CassidyGT

Being new to the sport, I must say that I was very put off by the snobbish attitude of the 'speedball' crowd. I have never played speedball, and I am sure it is fun, but to right off the bat insult me because I enjoy running around the woods really pissed me off. Accusing me of being a commando wannabe etc. I would think that paintball folks would welcome anyone noob and be willing to advise that person on equipment, tactics etc. What I got was "Yuc, a bushballer." Makes one feel right at home. Not.

Smakman

01-28-2002, 01:03 AM

I have edited my statements to get rid of anything akin to a "broad generalization". Everyone happy now?

BodyBagSlam

01-28-2002, 05:31 AM

In this whole slew of posts, I noticed a disturbing similarity to the thread in the Tippman forum, where some guy with nifty Photoshop skills had done some interesting makeups to a couple Tippman pictures (military looking). Granted he got a few compliments, but he also got flamed hard because he was "turning" the sport of paintball away from tourney ball and speedball. Most of the threads there dogged him for "glorifying" the war aspect, for lack of a better description. However, what I noticed most about it, and my point, is that most of the folks who got on him about it, were claiming that "their" sport and "speedball" was being ruined by this scenario (paintball as wargame)

The part that strikes me as odd is that many people construed the same thing from Smak's post. I may have just gotten an edited version after the fact, but I have been looked down upon at our local field, due to the "real" players not wanting outsiders who play in the woods to playon their field. Some of the comments that are made run the gamut from snobbish "I don't want someone who doesn't know what they are doing on my team" to the downright ludicrously rude "You only have a Tippman? My gun costs way more than that, and you have to use X paint or you can't play on this side".

Frankly it has been my experience, and I'm assuming it has been others experience too, that sometimes there is a divide between the two genres of play (3 genres maybe? SB/WB/Scenario?) Anyway, regardless of who starts the debate or claims that the other side is better, it isn't helping matters much, and people who are against Paintball in general are just content to let us fight amongst each other, to their ends not our own.

Interestingly enough, I will have to say that a lot of the prejudice that I have experienced, came from younger players too. Not categorizing younger players or even guessing how it came to be in that state, but most of the dissident toward the 8 or so "weekend warrior/rec types" that came out to the local field that day came from the younger guys who treated us , frankly, like dirt. It reminded me of staying at a friends house when I was a little kid and listening to his father ***** about every ethinc group he despised for no reason in particular.

Now the older folks, again, in my opinion only, seem to be the ones who are more tolerant of different players, and different styles of play. I have met a few young guys who are open to any type of play, and we had quite a few good games, but the field was quite divided when it came to picking teams and even for walk ons.

I was proud to say that we held our own on the field, even with a ragtag bunch that we had (meaning no previous speedball experience to speak of, no prethought strategies on it) and I think it was due to us being of the mindset of wanting to play for the sake of playing. We noticed the other side, which looked frighteningly organizing on first glance, would scream and tear into each other for the slightest mistakes , whereas the teams I played with (the outside bunch) didnt know better so we just tried our best. We ended up winning about 4 out of 6 games too. Maybe someone smiled upon us that day, or maybe we actually had some skills which "carried over", I truly dont know.

I do know that one of the main things that has kept me from looking into the tournament end of PB has been the stigma of the way people act towards crossovers, and it really limits how far paintball can evolve if we continue to bicker amongst ourselves for what is really a minor issue, if even one at all. This has all been my experience, and I apologize for the length of it, but there is so much fanaticism both on fileds, and in woods, and even on the se borads about what is proper and what is best, that it is keeping us from promoting what is best - The game of paintball. Pure and Simple.

BBS

Ebonclaw

01-28-2002, 09:48 AM

Well let's see.......if I have a 60% chance of being a jerk for playig speedball (the use of the word many) and a 40% chance of being a jerk for playing woods (the use of the word some) then I guess I have about a 75% chance of being a jerk since I play both. If you really wanted to stretch it we could add it up and say I have a 100% chance of being a jerk. So......the question here is Why do I have a bigger likelyhood of being a jerk for playing speedball than woodsball? It's nice to know there's an unbiased opinion like yours out there.:rolleyes: Now then, I really enjoy both forms of play, and frankly if you want to wear your "Arkansas militia group camo" (hey I'm a speedball player, remember, I'm a 60% jerk) that's fine, as long as you don't refer to my jersey or whatever as a "clown suit". But wait.....I play woodsball too. Did I mention how sportsmanlike I am?
Oh. Gosh darnit, I just remembered, I don't wear jerseys OR camo. I play in cargos and a t-shirt. Guess I don't fall into any of those categories, and since there are obviously only two (those who play sppedball and those who don't) I guess I'm not a paintball player.
You want to know why there's a divide? Consider the following statements:

"I don't give them crap for wearing their brightly colored outfits that look like clown clothes to me...."
That one's quoted by you. Now consider this one by me.

"I don't give a crap if you want to wear camoflauge and pretend you're a real soldier or militia member or whatever and look like Bubba Bo Bob gone hunting."

Now, let me say that this isn't actually my opinion. Heck, I'm probably gonna pick up some camoflauge at some point to wear to Time Wars in Ga. I'm just trying to put your statement in my words and rephrase it to you to see how you like how it sounds.

Now, I'll honestly say, I love woods ball, and I love speedball. But really now, if youre gonna provide an unbiased opinion, then do it. But by characterizing the majority of speedball players as jerks, don't be surprised if I counter by characterizing the majority of woods players as 8 year old kids with talons and no goggles who wipe.

'Nuff said. I'm through with this one before the heat turns into flame.

Killer Kat

01-28-2002, 10:13 AM

"Why can't we all just get along!" ;) Ok come on group hug! :eyes:

elTwitcho

01-28-2002, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by Killer Kat
"Why can't we all just get along!" ;) Ok come on group hug! :eyes:

As Harrison Ford once said, in "Air Force One"

"Get off my airplane!"

fool :)

curt

01-28-2002, 10:28 AM

speed balls my game.
That is why i gat a mag.:agree:

BodyBagSlam

01-28-2002, 10:32 AM

Curt? Did that have any useful semblance to the discussion? Or are you just happy to have a 'mag?

BBS

Smakman

01-28-2002, 12:17 PM

My whole point is this. If you don't like woods/scenario games, don't play them and more importantly, I think, don't badmouth people who do play them and/or wear camo while playing them. It's none of your business how they play or what kind of gun they play with or what they wear. If you think wearing camo and using a gun that looks like an M16 is bad for paintball, tough, deal with it. It isn't going away. As a matter of fact, it's growing fast. I don't find speedball very interesting. I rarely play it and I don't tell people how silly I think they look wearing what they often wear to play it. I keep that opinion to myself. Those of you who think woods/scenario gaming sucks should do the same and most of you probably do, but the percentage that can't help but spew forth their venom make everyone else with similar interests look bad. Probably much worse than us scenario gamers make paintball as a whole look. I play because I have fun playing. I don't take it seriously. Some people, I think, take themselves and the game, too seriously.

AngrySloth

01-28-2002, 12:34 PM

A lot of people seem to forget that their are jerkish woods players too. In a recent APG, I think November, there was a whole article by some guy who plays woods and only woods; and the whole article was basically saying speedball players are ***s who dress in rainbows, and that all speedball should be stopped and all players should go back to playing in the woods. Now I love both speedball and woods, but even as a partial woods player myself that article pissed me off. So I guess we can say there are "jerks" on both sides.

Smakman

01-28-2002, 12:49 PM

I read the same article, but I don't remember anything about how "all speedball should be stopped and all players should go back to playing in the woods." He was addressing the fact that paintball has changed a lot from it's beginnings (in the woods) and that not all of those changes are necissarily good and that a lot of speedball players sneer at woodsball when they might actually learn something from it if they would get back to playing it some.

Richy_C

01-28-2002, 01:16 PM

As you might learn from playing speed ball, which you said you've never played. Just seems like a big contradiction to me.

Smakman

01-28-2002, 01:37 PM

Please try to read my posts before commenting on them. I never said, in any post, that I had never played speedball. I said that I rarely play speedball. I OWN a speedball court. I just don't find it as challenging as scenario gaming. At least mentally. Physically, yeah, it is.

Richy_C

01-28-2002, 02:17 PM

Doh, that was the CassidyGT post.

elTwitcho

01-28-2002, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by Richy_C
Doh, that was the CassidyGT post.

Pretty dumb there Richy, I think we gotta flog you now

paintball bimbo

01-28-2002, 02:56 PM

Now then, I really enjoy both forms of play, and frankly if you want to wear your "Arkansas militia group camo" (hey I'm a speedball player, remember, I'm a 60% jerk) that's fine, as long as you don't refer to my jersey or whatever as a "clown suit".
Ok first of all don't dis Arkansas if you don't live here or even been here.Secound of all stop *****ing about which paintball is better.Why is this thread even here?I know why,because some bull headed people like to make fun of people because they think they're lesser than them.Paintball is paintball.Yes speedball (I may get flamed at but I could care less) is the pro form of paintball.Kinda like the NHL.Woods ball is kinda like street hockey.It can be played anywhere in the woods or out of woods (recreational) in outlaw or on a regulation field,like street hockey can be played on any hard surface skatable.I play both and I love them,I have no prefence of which type of paintball is "the best" and I really don't care because its paintball!Now than not "all" of speedball players are "jerks".When I see a "crossover" I ask him if he needs help in anyway and same goes for if I'm playin rec.I use a blue Tippy instead of a black one in rec.Don't ask why blue is my favorite color and if you want keep *****ing about this topic and let us that don't care about what we play in paintball play paintball.Sorry so long and if you diss Arkansas and never been here shut up,now if you don't like what I wrote BOO HOO.

Smakman

01-28-2002, 03:44 PM

"Yes speedball (I may get flamed at but I could care less) is the pro form of paintball."

I guess I would have to agree with that.
I'm not trying to make an argument as to which form of paintball is "better". That is strictly a matter of opinion. I don't see one as being "better" than the other. I just enjoy one more than the other myself.
I just wonder why there are people, be it many or few, who feel a need to down one or the other and it usually seems like woodsball players are on the recieving end of the criticism.

UTLadiesMan

01-28-2002, 08:45 PM

Sorry, I know I said I was abstaining from the duration of this conversation, but I just had to reply...

Originally posted by Smakman
"I just wonder why there are people, be it many or few, who feel a need to down one or the other and it usually seems like woodsball players are on the recieving end of the criticism.

It probably seems like that to you, because you always (ok, almost always) play woods ball. Those that only play speedball probably feel the same way in reverse. Bad **** is only bad if it's happening to you. How many times have you insulted speedball players? (Hint: It's at least as many as the number of posts you have made in this thread)

giblit

01-28-2002, 08:53 PM

i get why you say that speedball takes no skill but it does it maynot look like it but its hard to get your bunker and not get hit or moving up in the right time or getting bunkered thats a big thing that i worry about

Smakman

01-28-2002, 11:47 PM

If the speedball only people take it as an insult when a simple question is asked, they must be an awefully touchy bunch. So I have made an insult simply by posting? Now who is making broad generalizations?
Why does there necassarily have to be insult then when there is not agreement?

When at scenario games, I don't hear anyone b****ing about speedball or speedball players except to say that when they are playing speedball or at a tournaments, they hear speedball only players b****ing about what idiots scenario players are. A lot of scenario players play tournaments too so they are hearing it from both sides.

giblit, where did I ever say that speedball took no skill? I did not. I said that I, personally, didn't find it as mentally challenging.

Blacksheep

01-29-2002, 01:48 AM

Hmm, I think speedball works on team skills better because you use so much covering fire and it must become automatic to just lay down some suppression fire. Anyway, yeah

elTwitcho

01-29-2002, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by Smakman
If the speedball only people take it as an insult when a simple question is asked, they must be an awefully touchy bunch

Broad generalization, saying that all speedball players are awfully touchy

when they are playing speedball or at a tournaments, they hear speedball only players b****ing about what idiots scenario players are

Broad generalization number 2, whenever woodsball players play speedball or tournaments, speedball players call them idiots.

Listen man, if you think so low of speedball players, whoop de f*ckin do, but don't go pretending like you just want everyone to get along, and then make inflamatory remarks, and basically say that all speedball players are jerks. You don't think speedball is as mentally challenging? Alright, that's fine. But don't expect you aren't gonna take flak for it. Especially when you consider the work some tournament players put into their game, when you say it takes no skill like you're "all that" people are gonna go off on you for that.

UTLadiesMan

01-29-2002, 11:20 AM

Bravo Twitchy, *clap* *clap* *clap*

"So I have made an insult simply by posting?"

Not just by posting, but every one of your posts (excluding the one-line posts) had insults in them:

1) "I don't give them crap for wearing their brightly colored outfits that look like clown clothes to me."

2) "Most of the attitude comes from the speedball only crowd from what I have seen though"

3) "I just get sick of hearing about how I'm a stupid hick because I would rather play a more military style of paintball in the woods with a black gun instead of with a shiny chrome gun on a small flat field where everyone knows where every one else is from the very start."

*We have not said that, and the fact that you label us is insulting.*

4) "Methinks you doth protest too much."

*HAHA! That's rich, this entire thread is a protest. You call your posts a defense of woods ball, and ours a protest. We call our posts a defense of speedball, and yours a protest. That is definately a case of the pot calling the kettle black, and quite frankly you offend me as someone who has to share the label of "human" with you.*

5) "Being new to the sport, I must say that I was very put off by the snobbish attitude of the 'speedball' crowd."

*I know that wasn't your words, but you posted them because you agreed with them, and that offends me.*

6) "Some people, I think, take themselves and the game, too seriously."

*Some do. Most of us do not. Some people take football too seriously. We give them tens of millions of dollars. Does that make them bad people?*

7) "they might actually learn something from it if they would get back to playing it some."

*ditto, in reverse.*

8) "I just don't find it as challenging as scenario gaming. At least mentally."

*There is a lot more strategy than it looks like. Go watch a real tourny. Football at the lowest form doesn't require any thinking either. Get the ball and run, but at the professional level good strategy is paramount. Chess doesn't require any strategy if you are playing against a first timer. Don't make big mistakes, but if you play that way at a tourny you will walk away 0-7. Each and every game in direct competition against opponents requires some strategy. The more your opponent uses, the more you have to use to stay competitive.*

9) "I just wonder why there are people, be it many or few, who feel a need to down one or the other and it usually seems like woodsball players are on the recieving end of the criticism."

*Again, only seems like that to you. I refer back to the big, bright, stupid looking clown clothes.*

10) "If the speedball only people take it as an insult when a simple question is asked, they must be an awefully touchy bunch. "

*And you are what now??*

Chad51

01-29-2002, 12:06 PM

About speedball being the pro league style of play for paintball I wouldn't really say that I have seen it played as rec and I have played it as rec myself. And I also know that there is a such thing as woods toury's so in a way both have their pro leagues (in a manner of speaking) although I have to admit that speedball seems to be the most well know form of professional paintball.

Ebonclaw

01-29-2002, 12:15 PM

Alright, first off I was BORN in North Little Rock Arkansas and raised there for the first 6 years of my life. I've visited often as I have relatives there, so I CAN form my own opinion on Arkansas; "now if you don't like what I wrote BOO HOO". Now, as for me *****ing which paintball is better? Well, to QUOTE MYSELF:

"Well let's see.......if I have a 60% chance of being a jerk for playig speedball (the use of the word many) and a 40% chance of being a jerk for playing woods (the use of the word some) then I guess I have about a 75% chance of being a jerk SINCE I PLAY BOTH."

"Now then, I really enjoy both forms of play...."

Considering one of these was the FIRST sentance in my paragraph, let alone entire post, I'd say it's YOU who isn't reading what I wrote. So keep your nose outta my business before I break it. Don't like what I just said? Well TOUGH.
Now, I guess you didn't realize most of my post was satire, but I doubt you can even spell "satire" without looking at the computer screen, let alone understand the word itself, as you obviously couln't read the entirity of my first sentance and comprehend it.

Smakman

01-29-2002, 01:38 PM

I seems to me that if I state my OPINION, and it differs from yours, it is an insult. But if you state your OPINION, and it differs from mine, you have made a point and I am wrong.
You just ignore any and all disclaimers I have made such as:

"to me."
"from what I have seen"
"I just don't find it"
"If.......must"

elTwitcho, I have avoided trying to state anything as a FACT except what I KNOW to be true. I did NOT say ALL tourny players badmouth woodsball. Many players have told me about hearing tourny players badmouthing scenario gaming. It is a fact that they have told me this. I have witnessed it myself. It is a fact that I have witnessed it. How is that a generalization? I never said that I thought low of speedball players in general, I asked why some speedball players think low of woodsball/scenario players, because judging by the statements SOME of them make, SOME of them do. Try and quote anywhere I said that tournament play "takes no skill". I did not make that statement, so stop trying to spin what I have actually posted into what you think I have posted. I said that I didn't find it as mentally challenging. Just me. I wasn't talking about anyone else. Just me. I. You seem to have a real knack for finding posts that I never posted. BTW you once said something to the effect that woodsball was dying out. Can you back that statement up?

How did I label you, UTLadiesMan? I didn't say that you made any specific statement about woodsball. I don't know whether you have or not. Have you? If so, what was it and why do you feel that way?
I didn't call my post a defense of anything. I'm not defending woodsball because I didn't realize it was being attacked. Is it? If so, why? I'll start defending it.
I just asked why anyone feels the need to badmouth it. So far, no one has even tried to answer that question. It seems like several of you are just taking offense that the question has been asked at all. Why? BTW did you know that "the right to not be offended" isn't in the Constitution? You should read it sometime, extraordinary document. (That was just a jibe, don't get all pissed off about that now.)

Let's make this very simple. Let's put everything else aside and see if anyone can just address this one issue. Do you like woodsball? If not, have you ever said or thought anything negative about woodsball players (except me) or woodsball play? If so, why? I don't mean a specific game or player. I mean the concept of woods and scenario play.

UTLadiesMan

01-29-2002, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by Smakman
I didn't call my post a defense of anything. I'm not defending woodsball because I didn't realize it was being attacked. Is it? If so, why? I'll start defending it.
I just asked why anyone feels the need to badmouth it.

...and for our next lesson, Contradiction!! WOOHOO!

Yes, I do play woodsball. I just don't find it as interesting to play, or take as much skill. ;)

Seriously though, can I ask you a question? Wait that was a question... :| Ok, I will ask 2 questions, that last one and the next one... Are you mental? No offense, but your logic skills suck. I really hate to drag a debate to this level, but I don't think anything I could possible argue (the good form of argument or rhetoric) would ever get through to you. I mean hell, Thurgood Marshall was more willing to concede points than you are... What is the point in constructing your arguement out of 3 points, and repeating them over and over and over in different forms? Seriously man, take a debate class...

Sincerly,
-Eric

Smakman

01-29-2002, 03:00 PM

What is the point in constructing your arguement out of 3 points, and repeating them over and over and over in different forms?

Because you can't seem to understand what I have said in any prior form. Maybe, sooner or later, I will hit upon a dialect with with which we can communicate.

Yes, I do play woodsball. I just don't find it as interesting to play, or take as much skill.

That is fine. To each his own!

I don't think anything I could possible argue (the good form of argument or rhetoric) would ever get through to you

Hehe, ditto! See quote #1

Contradiction? How can I defend before the attack begins? Or did I miss it?

AHHHHHGH, just answer the question!!!!

PaintballFreak9

01-29-2002, 03:59 PM

All I have to say first off is I love to play both forms of the sport,but I like speedball better.

To me playing in the woods takes no skill at all.Anyone could just sit there with their military camo and be a "sniper" when they are just really camping.I have no patients to sit there in the woods.Its just so boring.

I like some scenario games that don't have to do with war type settings.I hate all of the people putting grenade launchers,but stocks,and military parts on the vipers,tippmanns,spyders,ect.And building tanks and mortars is just ***.Tell me this,if a new player to the sport really wants a paintball gun and is trying to persuade his parents to let him have one,are they going to say yes if they flip through a magazine he hands them and sees men dressed in camo,having a military-like gun,driving around in tanks,and shooting mortars at eachother?I think not.

I like speedball better becuase it's fast paced and takes people with ***** to play it.It also uses more logic and skill to play.And people can't sit there,blinf firing and "sniping"

That's just my opinion,go ahead b*tch about it,I don't care.