Merged Propane marker threads [Archive]

snaretan

09-30-2005, 01:25 PM

whats up with all these "tippmann propane guns" threads. there is so may whay dont u post what you want to say in a old thread. i really think tippmann wouldnt make a propane gun because at high tempatures those tanks could explode.

The threads end up closed because start arguing about it, like the following:

Those tanks won't blow up. You realize propane tanks are everywhere right? Go look at a gas station, they are the big white tanks with cement polls blocking them off so cars don't run them over. They are on grills everywhere, they sell small tanks at Walmart for camping. They even have trucks that carry the bulk propane to fill up the gas stations tanks. You aren't going to play with this paintball tank in any hotter area than propane is already located.

Yes, it can cause a threat if you threw the tank into a fire, and it wouldn't be smart to smoke a cigarette while you change the tank. However, under normal use, it shouldn't cause too much of a problem. You don't hear of many people blowing up things with their home propane tanks, and I'm sure there are more people grilling tonight with LP then there are playing paintball this whole weekend.

Also, if anyone makes a Hank Hill joke, you are a little late on the punchline.

Tan

Raleigh Allen

09-30-2005, 01:26 PM

Holy **** I thought he was lying!!!!!!!!

cheddarbob

09-30-2005, 01:33 PM

I think the photo would be more credible if the tank was screwed on to the marker lol. Anyone of those employees could of just left those two bottles sitting there just to start some kind of hoax which is what i believe even though im new to the scene. Just kind of funny how the bottle is just sitting there. I mean if the propane tank can be screwed on to the a5 why isnt it screwed in (taking into account that the photo should be taken outside or what diff would it make to the person holding it =0))? If it doesnt fit the a5 where is the marker its suppose to be screwed into rather than sitting there like an outcast. I mean the picture seems to render itself useless if the tank isnt on something.....

cheddarbob

09-30-2005, 01:34 PM

unless it is screwed on and i cant see it right...

cheddarbob

09-30-2005, 01:41 PM

o ok i guess that isnt an a5 lol

maxxa1221

09-30-2005, 01:45 PM

Man this is pretty insane, Im not to sure about it. Seems kind of dangerous to me. I guess it is a good idea because some peope have a hard time getting to a co2/Hpa fill station.

cheddarbob there is a edit button please use it to prevent triple posts. :eek: :crazy:

rcxpaintball

09-30-2005, 01:49 PM

Its true, Remi Z did some digging and got several people to confirm it at tippmann...more to come at 68cal's website.

pbjoe693

09-30-2005, 02:01 PM

Propane powered paintball guns are not gonna be available to the public, unless they have a new super safety tank that wont explode or become more dangerous that a normal C02 tank(i dont think they have any tanks like that). Propane is a highly flamable and tanks that contain propane have to be used with extreme caution. Even empty propane tanks can explode. Propane tanks can become dangerous several ways, extreme heat, overfilling, misuse, leaks, and more. Propane tanks shouldnt even be stored in houses. People have been hurt and died from C02 tanks exploding, imagine if those were propane tanks. There is a picture of some paintball markers no one has seen before, that are supposedly propane powered, but no where on the picture does it say or show that those are propane powered. Im not saying that tippmann didnt test with propane as a air source. But i dont think propane powered markers will ever be available to the public. There just to dangerous. I dont care if this thread is closed but i just wanted to show that propane is not safe for people to use everyday in a sport where the way the equipment is used, will make propane tanks unsafe.

maxxa1221

09-30-2005, 03:09 PM

why didnt you post below....a few threads under yours.

SEAL34

09-30-2005, 03:12 PM

I don't know if it's for sure gonna be propane powered, I called Tippman Tech support and they sadi that they didn't know much and to call back in a month.

SEAL34

09-30-2005, 03:15 PM

5 bux says the death reports start rolling in two weeks after release :laugh:

maxxa1221

09-30-2005, 03:17 PM

dude id edit that, may offend some people, not me but, your
a cool member hate to see you band or something...

kjpmkjp

09-30-2005, 03:38 PM

Yes, i take great offense to that :dodgy:

I honestly can't believe Tippmann would make something potentailly dangerous though.

senghing27

09-30-2005, 03:43 PM

I say, lets wait and see... cuz it's no good now killing each other and speculating....

Raleigh Allen

09-30-2005, 05:04 PM

If you look real close you can see on the side of the gun "Tippmann C3".

Raleigh Allen

09-30-2005, 05:05 PM

Do we really need another one of these threads???:rolleyes:

SEAL34

09-30-2005, 05:58 PM

I can't believe this is happening :yell:!!!

Surestick

10-01-2005, 08:11 AM

A few things to consider:
- Found after a quick google search:
* At a temperature of 70° F, propane's vapor pressure is 124 PSI.
* At a temperature of 162° F, propane's vapor pressure is 390 PSI.

So at room temperature there is a lot less potential energy (barring ignition) in a propane tank than there is in a CO2 tank of the same size.

-Propane takes oxygen to burn. A tank of propane is not a bomb - if you could magically transport a lit match into a full propane tank it would go out - there would be no oxygen to support combustion.

Even with a leak that was ignited you have positive pressure in the tank so no oxygen can get in, the fire would burn in the jet of gas escaping from the tank in the region where it has mixed with enough air to create a combustible mixture.

As I see it, the big dangers would be:
Burns due to ignited leaks.
Explosion due to a leak letting enough gas collect in a closed area & then the addition of an ignition source (unlikely in the outdoors due to wind & such).
Explosion due to bottles sitting in a fire & bursting.

The first two dangers would be minimized by setting & enforcing no smoking rules among players & staff when around the markers. I don't see the second being that big a danger to players - more a danger to firemen.

Edit: Just realized - a lot of airsoft guns run off propane (they call it "green gas" ) - it's not ignited though they use the pressure. If it was such a big danger you'd think that we would have heard of people being hurt.

Frankly I'm more worried playing next to someone with a badly maintained/mistreated HPA bottle - 4500 PSI is scary. And all those scratches on the rental CO2 bottles at your local field - they're called stress risers.

cheddarbob

10-01-2005, 02:36 PM

Your "facts" or opinions more like it are only empirical. Its nothing thats been tested. Intuitively it still poses a danger. The safety regulations you mentioned are only applied to people who play on a pay to play field, but what about players who play off of it or kids (yeah yeah they got regulations for kids getting paintball markers but they still get their hands on it)? You said it takes oxygen for combustion, of course.......Im sure ill be one happy camper being surrounded by a huge cloud of stinking propane gas from rapid firing and worrying about some kind of accidental spark. Most people who try to advocate their ideas of propane being legit arent even experts. Id rather believe the more cynical/non- educated guy's idea as a prophylaxis of my death lol. A plethora of questions can only be proposed....concrete statements advocating propane cant be digested (definitely not from you guys lol) without credentials....unless your some kind of prodigy in chemistry....right. You can never be meticulous enough when it comes to propane =0). Its kind of funny how people would look into this thing just to get 10,000 shots in exchange for their life than to wing out a litlle cash and go the safer way. As far as exploding CO2 tanks etc... I would say that the most likely chance of it exploding is due to the owner from improper storage, handling, and care, so that wouldnt make so much fo a diff to own a propane tank except we can potentially get the very cool flaming effects. There is a very small faulty percentage error due to the manufacturer. Face it .....Propane = an embodiment of evil that cooks dead animals for us and should remain that way and should put a damn end to this stupid issue.

Surestick

10-01-2005, 06:40 PM

Your "facts" or opinions more like it are only empirical.

At least partially yes - as are yours.

One would hope that if Tippman were to release this product onto the market place they would get experts to evaluate the risks - frankly with the litigious society we live in it would be financial suicide not to. The companies that provide insurance to fields will no doubt do the same.

I don't think this is a good idea simply due to image - What parents would want their kid to go play with propane for a day?

All things considered though, if you keep your mask on, the drive to the field is probably the most dangerous part of a day of paintball CO2, HPA or otherwise.

bruised head

10-01-2005, 10:29 PM

i could just see some guys standing around with propane guns while smoking after a game shooting for boredom and BOOM

Gothmog

10-01-2005, 11:52 PM

Propane is less dangerous than HPA. Consider this; Airsoft is FAR more popular than paintball internationally. Propane has been used for over fifteen years to power many pistols and some rifles. There has never been an unpleasant incident related to the use of propane. And smoking is practically mandatory in Hong Kong, the capitol of airsoft.
I couldn't care less if a PB company is using it to power a marker. They've done their QC testing and aren't going to risk their company by making a dangerous marker.

sniperdude9

10-02-2005, 11:04 AM

i think i will just stay with my air and co2 i feel safer with them because they arent a fuel. and propane pollutes :finger:

7seven7

10-02-2005, 11:21 AM

i think id be pretty cool to use propane to power markers. you could hold an open flame to the end of the barrel and play night games. with big fireballs going off all the time. that would be awesome. but as far as inhilation goes im not to worried about thati use my propane torch all the time and im onley a little retarted. :crazy:

Coenen

10-02-2005, 11:44 AM

They've both been merged into one great big, useless thread about this idea.

For my part, this is a damned interesting concept, that cannot be denied. I don't think that they would take this idea to market unless there was a definite way to keep the tanks and marker safe. You have to remember there is no guarantee that CO2 and HPA will be safe. In fact compressed gases are INHERENTLY unsafe by their very nature.

Quite frankly I don't think that there is enough information at this time to really make a decision either way. Just remember, this idea WOULD NOT make it to consumers if it were THAT unsafe. Either that or it would be sold along with one hell of a liability release.

benhmn

10-02-2005, 05:51 PM

Scenario 1: The safety measures fail on the HPA tank I'm holding

Scenario 2: The safety measures fail on the propane tank I'm holding

The result of both scenarios: Pain and misery

The bottom line is that if my tank blows, I don't care what gas is inside. Using propane isn't any more crazy that packing 4500 psi of air pressure into a 68 cubic inch space. So quit freaking out and adding fear and ammunition to Concerned Mothers of America. They already have thier eye on us.

Tom_D

10-02-2005, 07:02 PM

snaretan

10-03-2005, 11:07 AM

I wonder if the generaly un-educated masses thought that using HPA in it's infancy thought that HPA would be the end of paintball.

"Oh no.............. the pressure is way higher .............. we are all going to die!!"

That's exactly what I was thinking.

I skipped reading the whole second page of this thread cause I wanted to post some links pictures and make some points:

http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=3910537&nav=menu183_11

http://www.mainelincolncountynews.com/index.cfm?ID=13927

http://www.liftway.on.ca/Trucks300/6051.jpg

http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/images/1686453_lg.jpg

http://tankdrawings.com/propanetanks/1H%20Propane%20Tanks.jpg

Anyway, the points I'd like to make are that propane isn't going to spontaniously explode. You have two wrecked propane trucks, neither exploded. You aren't going to see a propane tank on a paintball gun explode unless someone purposly tries to make it explode.

Second, propane is already being used in a variety of applications. Resturants, Appliances, Pool heating, Vehicles, Machinery and who knows what else use propane. Being affraid of propane is like being afriad to fly. Sure, planes crash, but only an extremely small percentage compared to how many don't crash. I can't even think of the last time I heard of a significant propane explosion happening.

Yes, I'm aware that there are people dumb enough to bash their marker on a tree while lighting a cigarette. Maybe a better example would be a 12 year old kid thinking they can make their gun better if they remove an O ring by candle light. If something bad happens, I'd gurantee it was due to lack of saftey and supervision, not the fact that it was propane (In other words, it could happen with CO2 or HPA).

Tan

xavier678

10-03-2005, 11:30 AM

one thing that has been mentioned a few times here is that "after rapid firing there will be a cloud of propane gas...bla bla". complete combustion would absolutely be necessary, releasing CO2 gas (oh man, that stuff is aweful dangerous, ill be dead before i see it applied to paintball) and probably some excess O2 gas. with proper safety measures this will neither blow the world to hell nor cause any dangerous explosions. there are safety measures implemented into every new propane tank sold and im sure they will be on bottles of propane used for this prototype. i, for one, hope this gets to production, the possible applications are great.

NSGSplatmaster

10-03-2005, 01:45 PM

Anyone ever consider the possibility of it being Photoshopped?

benhmn

10-03-2005, 01:54 PM

Oh my god! They only have one Eye!!!1!1 What happened!!1!

I'll bet some propane reached out from a bottle and ripped all their other eyes right out of their sockets.

Anyone ever consider the possibility of it being Photoshopped?

Not anymore. It's been confirmed by a lot of different sources, including some tippmann techs.

S.O.G

10-03-2005, 02:45 PM

Hey I found a little article about this tippmann propane pump prototype. If this has allready been posted my bad diddnt feel like looking thru all the past post.

http://www.68caliber.com/news/industry/story041193.php

Also while searching the net I was surprised to see that they are using propane for airsoft guns.

7seven7

10-06-2005, 05:20 PM

this seems freakin awesome. wanna get one.

..!..('_')..!..

10-06-2005, 05:32 PM

[QUOTE=benhmn]I'll bet some propane reached out from a bottle and ripped all their other eyes right out of their sockets.[QUOTE]

Im glad someone understands my pain. But really, those things are..... FUGLY. They look like weird demented 98C boxes.

spydadude

10-06-2005, 05:44 PM

I actually think that they look like MP-5's without a magazine and a huge tank coming out of the back.

SEAL34

10-07-2005, 05:03 AM

I don't like 'em. Is it for sure that they're releasing them? Or are they just seeing what the public thinks?

snaretan

10-07-2005, 07:42 AM

I don't think they'd have gone this far developing and protyping them if they don't plan on releasing them.

I think for a field owner, they have great benefits. You wouldn't have to change tanks as often, and they'd be a lot cheaper to fill. Also, since it's propane, maybe the renters would be a little scared so they would be more saftey concious when they play. I could see them being sold as rentals in high quantities.

Tan

SouthernStyle

10-16-2005, 03:44 PM

I dont think that tippmann would put something out there to hurt its consumers. Now someone blowing themselfs up for not following directions is another story. As I recall HPA wasent very safe when it came out either. But it grew on us. I'm gonna try it. 50 thousand shots or what ever it is. Its worth trying out.

MisterNewbie

10-19-2005, 02:18 PM

Don't know if thats new on the Tippmann website but looks like the propane gun will be avaible in a very near future....

http://tippmann.com/product_guide/markerDetails.aspx?categoryid=4#

BTW i know this is old and theres alot of threads about this gun but ive never seen one with the actual REAL website link...
Sorry if u already knew it.

impyboi2123

10-19-2005, 02:27 PM

sweet but not for 230 dolla

iliveforthis99

10-19-2005, 02:59 PM

Only worth being a rental IMO.

BigTarget04

10-19-2005, 03:26 PM

Some more info/marketing hype: http://www.paintballstar.com/pn/modules.php?op=modload&name=PagEd&file=index&topic_id=51&page_id=450

SEAL34

10-19-2005, 04:08 PM

Thanks for the link Newbie, I hadn't seen the vid.

TheSpy11

10-19-2005, 05:21 PM

Thanks for the link. The C3 certainly looks enteresting. Too bad it will cost so much though.:(

senghing27

10-19-2005, 07:29 PM

SO the monster has been revealed....

OmenPimp

10-19-2005, 07:41 PM

im going to buy one for outlawball down in the wods i ride dirtbikes. i like pumps, and 50,000 off a 16oz tank is great. if it does blow ujp then i guess my lawyer will pu tippmann outta business. the price is going to drop dramatically becuase no one is going to buy it. im waiting until sumer

cheddarbob

10-19-2005, 11:37 PM

dont count on the prices dropping dramatically just because no one is buying it....law of SUPPLY and demand my friend.

MisterNewbie

10-20-2005, 05:18 AM

dont count on the prices dropping dramatically just because no one is buying it....law of SUPPLY and demand my friend.

Well actually, the law of supply and demand says that if the DEMAND lowers or stays constant while the SUPPLY augments or stays constant... The price WILL lower... Not dramatically but it will.

SEAL34

10-20-2005, 07:48 AM

Another thing... it looks too bulky IMO. In the vid it has a big vertical and horizontal profile. I don't think that'll go over well with all the hard core pumpers.

cheddarbob

10-20-2005, 12:11 PM

I think you should look up the law of supply and demand again newbie. The law of demand says that if the demand is LOW the prices will be high (an inverse relationship) and if the price is high the demand will be low, while every other factor is held constant. Where as the law of supply says that if the supplies are high the prices will remain high while every other factor is held constant and this is done over a specified period of time. what you said was ..."if the DEMAND
lowers or stays constant while the SUPPLY augments or stays constant...
The price WILL lower... Not dramatically but it will.". Why would the demand lower if the price lowers as well? The demand would be UP since the price dropped. Even if the demand for the C3's is low and if there was a huge supply out there the price would still be high.

MisterNewbie

10-20-2005, 01:13 PM

You're mixing things up... I didn't say that if the price lowers the demand will lower too. I said that:
High Supply+Low Demand (or none)= Lower prices....
Low Supply+High Demand= Rare Product Phenomenon=Higher prices...

OmenPimp

10-20-2005, 02:18 PM

PlayHardDieHard

10-20-2005, 05:46 PM

Isn't propain like green gas in airsoft?

btw I don't think the price is to high. I mean if you buy a A-5 then buy a n2 tank the price will be higher than the c3(provided propain is as good as n2).

cheddarbob

10-20-2005, 10:48 PM

read what you posted again I copied and pasted it:
You're mixing things up... I didn't say that if the price lowers the demand will lower too. I said that:
High Supply+Low Demand (or none)= Lower prices....
Low Supply+High Demand= Rare Product Phenomenon=Higher prices...

High supply+LOW DEMAND (OR NONE) = LOWER PRICES (youre wrong there and youre saying if price lowers demand lowers read it again. Law of SUPPLY says that HIGH SUPPLY=HIGHER PRICES AND LAW OF DEMAND HIGH PRICES=LOW DEMAND (inverse relationship). If there was a low demand that would imply that the price is high and consumers arent buying the products because of that. If you look at what you typed that doesnt make sense. Why would there be a LOW demand for something that is supplied in a mass at LOW prices (That would also contradict the law of supply to be supplying in a mass at low prices). You cant supply in a mass at low prices. The manufacturer would have to pay for overutilization of machines and overtime for their employees production, unless that is they can replace their employees with more efficient machines, which would then put people out of work and those people would be more conservative with spending their money since they have no jobs bringing the economy down a bit, but thats why we have unemployment checks to keep people spending and keep the money cycling through our economy =0). The price for the product should be high (in order for the manufacturer to incur those costs), which in turn would make the demand low because of high prices. Manufacturers are more willing to sell in a high volume at higher prices over a specified period of time.

And for your last part: Low Supply+High Demand= Rare Product Phenomenon=Higher prices...

Youre saying the same thing: Low Supply + HIGH DEMAND= Rare Product Phenomenon (<---? This has nothing to do with law of supply and demand, even if the c3's became obsolete its not considered a RARE product)B]=[/B] HIGHER PRICES.... The demand for a product will not be high if the prices are high. And are you sure this isnt based your logic and its on books? I think the way you interpret it is that its a cause and effect. If the demand lowers then that will dictate the price bringing it down. Supply has a more direct relationship with price.

MisterNewbie

10-21-2005, 07:46 AM

OMG... You're actually reading from the wrong side... Did i say lower prices=low demands or low demands (while the stock is high)=lower prices... FAR from being the same thing.

MisterNewbie

10-21-2005, 07:49 AM

Oh and BTW... Low Supplys+High Demand=Rare Products Phenomenon=Higher Prices is part of the law of demand and supply but i took this as an example for you to understand (it as no effects on this situation since Tippmann will probably manufacture a considerable ammount of the C3 pump guns.)

The problem is that your not looking at the whole equation ... You forget about the signs (+,=) and your actually picking the words you want... Heres an example:
High supply+LOW DEMAND (OR NONE) = LOWER PRICES

In this quote u used bold text to prove your right but u seem to forget about the High supply+ part....

What i mean is, sure Low demand does not equal lower prices BUT if u had the HIGHER SUPPLY+ part infront of LOW DEMAND it makes sence since the company want to have more demands by reducing the prices of the product they have in big quantity.

*** Sorry if my english can be a bit sloppy i'm actually french and 17 years old... Learned my english by myself since school only teach you about stupid easy things. ***

cheddarbob

10-21-2005, 01:48 PM

when you put an = sign it does not matter which way you read it. whether from left to right or right to left when you put an equal sign you equate the two, it is no diff from reading a math equation and i did look at the sign. Now if you wrote it as a cause and effect kind of thing, that is a whole diff world and you cannot read it in any direction you want, if you took calculus you should know this. IF there is a diff from reading it from a certain direction, Id like to see you argue with a calc prof. about that. I also mentioned the HIGH SUPPLY PART and did not leave it out. You cannot have High supplies in ADDITION with low demands at low prices (pretty much what you wrote ---> High supply+LOW DEMAND (OR NONE) = LOWER PRICES ). Low demand and low prices cannot coincide with each other when it comes to the law of supply and demand and cannot be in that same "equation" of yours ...period. If you are going to say that there is a HIGH SUPPLY + LOW DEMAND = LOW PRICE.... that is wrong already. If there is a HIGH SUPPLY (which will imply HIGH PRICES) then the demand should be low and the equation should look more like this.....HIGH SUPPLY + HIGH PRICES = LOW DEMAND, since supply and price have a more direct relationship. The reason why I put some words in your equation in bold was because the two cannot coincide with each other since you put an = sign. Yes it makes logical sense that the company would lower the prices to get a higher demand, but why would they do that? That would put them at a strategical disadvantage by the consumers. Why are they going to produce in a mass only to go from a high price to a lower price just so people will buy it? That makes no sense cause they will make no profits. How will the manufacturer pay for the costs they incur from mass production to pay for overtime for the employees and for the over utilization of the machines? Thats why they do it over a specified time period until the supply starts to deplete THEN the prices drop (unless that is they find a more economical way of producing, then the supply curve would shift). The prices will remain constant. Either way consumers will buy the product... some people cant wait till the price drops, some people have high income, holidays, birthday presents, etc., but the demand wont be as high when the prices drop. What youre basically saying is that demand dictates price because if there is a HIGH SUPPLY and people wont buy the product then the company will have to resort to lowering prices just to sell off some of their supply...that is what you are saying in that equation of yours and im arguing against it and you stated it as well. Yes it makes logical sense to drop the price to sell of some product, but manufacturers wont do that. Like I said, why the hell would you produce in a large mass and over work your employees and machines, put out the product, and then end up selling it at a lower price than what you had anticipated for? Manufacturers wont be able to pay for the costs they incur from mass production if they sell at a low price, thats why they keep it high cause people will eventually be forced into buying it cause they wont be able to wait 1,2,3 years for the price to drop. You walk into some stores 98c's still cost 200 along with other varying prices. Use the concept of playstation. They arent going to produce in a large mass and lower the price just because people are waiting for the prices to drop. They wont be able to pay for the costs they incur. Theyre going to keep it the same until the supply depletes and then drop the price because of lower supply.

Ultran00b

10-21-2005, 01:53 PM

Thanks for the economics 101.
Now about those propane markers...

MisterNewbie

10-21-2005, 02:07 PM

First, manufacturers don't lower the prices after a mass production they check how the product itself is sold... If they're not getting enough buyers since the price is too high and they have a sh*t load of stuff, they will lower the prices.

Second, i did say it was an equation which i knew was a mistake but i only used the signs to save time and to be easier to understand... As i told u at the end of the post im 17 years old and english is not my first language so i didnt know which word to choose.

Lets say you have your own company and u manufactured a million of the new "rat" paintball markers.
People are not buying it for an "X" reason. (which means HIGH SUPPLY+LOW DEMAND).
Now will u augment the price or lower it?
By lowering the price you WILL get more sells and more profits. Not more then if it was the normal price but since you are not selling anything u will make more money selling it with a lower price then to try to sell it at the normal price.

Now lets stop with this thing because i think im right and you think you are right. No one is actually paying attention to what we are writing so it will never end.

kcal1632

10-21-2005, 07:20 PM

ANYYYWAAAY..... I'm excited about this whole propane thing and I hope it succeeds.

_______________________________________

"You don't stop pullin' the trigger 'cus yer out of ammo, you stop pullin' the trigger when yer DEAD!"

PyRo-TV

10-22-2005, 02:38 PM

Yea anywho.

The gun and idea are awesome. I personally think the thing is damn sexy.

Propane powered paintball guns are not gonna be available to the public, unless they have a new super safety tank that wont explode or become more dangerous that a normal C02 tank(i dont think they have any tanks like that). Propane is a highly flamable and tanks that contain propane have to be used with extreme caution. Even empty propane tanks can explode. Propane tanks can become dangerous several ways, extreme heat, overfilling, misuse, leaks, and more. Propane tanks shouldnt even be stored in houses. People have been hurt and died from C02 tanks exploding, imagine if those were propane tanks.

Yea just imagine, you would still get hurt/die from the shrapnel, its not like the damn thing would fricken explode into a ball of fire. Propane tanks are designed safer than C02 tanks even though propane is a very low pressure gas. Any pressurized tank regardless of contents becomes deadly when overfilled, same applys to misuse and improper maintanance. Remember this its not like Tippmann can just go, here you go public have a new propane powered marker. No they have to be inspected cause yea, it is a flammable gas. And im pretty sure Tippmann has gotten the ok (for thier own sake and legality) from the DOT. 1) Empty propane tanks can't explode...cause...well thier empty and dont have enough vapor to go boom and/or and there is no pressure. 2) Extreme heat? yea if you throw it in a fire. 3) Pressurized tanks shouldnt be stored in direct contact with people period. A 16oz tank wont blow your house or even a room to isht nor will a 20oz, so why the hell would you store a tank bigger than that in your house? You only real fear is if your house was on fire, which then who cares about the tanks.

There just to dangerous. I dont care if this thread is closed but i just wanted to show that propane is not safe for people to use everyday in a sport where the way the equipment is used, will make propane tanks unsafe.

I think its funny how many people think its dangerous. Not like you use propane or other flammable gases every day of your life for hundreds of different applications :rolleyes:. Propane is also a very stable and efficent gas thats why its so widely used. Heck like its been said, its been used in Airsoft for a long time and I havnt heard anything about a kid blowin himself up. You hear stories about kids getting killed by HP Air tanks though, and that doesnt seem to stop people from using them for fear of thier life. Things can go wrong with any gas under pressure flammable or not, you are more than likely going to die of shrapnel. Propane won't ignite when combined with air unless the source of ignition reaches at least 940 degrees Fahrenheit and even if it does its a torch. (so its not like you drop it and it goes boom) 1) the pressure keeps it burning evenly and 2) only the vapors ignite and propane is pretty picky compared to other flammable gasses; in order to ignite, the propane/air mix must contain from 2.2 to 9.6 percent propane vapor. If the mixture contains less than 2.2 percent gas, it is too lean to burn. If it contains more than 9.6 percent, it is too rich to burn.

Another thing is if there is a leak and no ignition source then there isnt a risk propane dissapates very fast.

Another thing to consider. Propane tanks are designed on a whole new level compared to C02 tanks, propane tanks are much more durable. Air tanks are another matter, those babys are under waaaay higher pressure.

Im not saying that propane is better, im just saying its an equal alternative as far a risks go. As for performance, that I have yet to see.

Oh and one last tidbit, for those who say its a waste of a non renewabale fuel source....right. Hop in that gasoline chuggin car of yours and go fill up your Air tanks. You wont be filling up as often with propane, a very little bit goes a long ways.

And while im on that subject as for the guys or just guy that said propane pollutes, um yea about as much as your C02 tank does. Propane does pollute, but very little and thats when it is burned. What do you think the highest percentage of gas is in greenhouse gases?.... its C02.

Man I love Tippmann, always being more efficent. If I had the cash laying around I would by it.

KoLaZ

10-24-2005, 04:22 PM

Propane is no more dangerous than Co2 is. I've had a Co2 tank burst on me before, cold and dangerous? Yes. Propane tanks are just as safe as co2 tanks are. I've used propane in my life more than I've used co2 paintballing. Have any propane tanks ever exploded on me? Nope, not once.

cheddarbob

10-24-2005, 04:53 PM

maybe because youre not slamming your propane tank on the floor or having it screwed on to some kind of "dispensing source" as often as you are with the CO2. Until you get the C3 then you can make that arguement cause im pretty sure youre not currently running around in a field or the woods with your propane tank. I think what most people...or atleast I fear is that since the C3 ignites the fuel that it can cause some kind of freak chain reaction and the ignited flame can trace back to the bottle. Even though people say the fuel will be too rich to burn bla bla there are freak accidents that happen. People will try to advocate for this by getting all scientific but the point is that none of us are certified chemists or engineers, so BLA with your facts. Just wait till this thing comes out and see the reviews. Im sure the c3 posses merits and flaws.

KoLaZ

10-24-2005, 05:14 PM

Govinda_T

10-24-2005, 05:47 PM

That is the most articulate, complete, correct, thorough argument I have ever witnessed on all of pbreview. And Cheddarbob, just give it up. You can't win. Also, freak accidents can happen anywhere. You could get hit by a car, have your first epileptic seizure on your drive home from work, be killed by a random golf ball-sized meteor striking you in the forehead, spontaneously combust (maybe), be impaled by a railroad spike that fell off the large truck in front of your car on the highway pinning you to your seat, be suffocated by carbon monoxide because of an exhaust system leak in your car, or be instantly killed by a poodle falling from the 32nd story window above you as you are walking down the sidewalk after being accidentally pushed out by a little old lady while watering her flowers.

NOTE: All of these scenarios have definitely actually happened, with the exception of the poodle incident. That hasn't been confirmed... yet.

Lopez17

10-25-2005, 09:45 AM

If you guys can't keep it civil in here, I close the thread and start banning.

Bigbadfish

10-25-2005, 09:55 AM

cheddarbob....I recomend that you take this opportunity to say your goodbyes, since I am certain that you will be banned before the end of the day.

I am sure that there are many ways that propane is safer, and the tanks are MUCH lighter. There are some minor issues that could come up. Like I would imagine it would not be allowed in indoor fields/facilities due to the possibilty of gas build up. Smoking restrictions would have to be put into place at all fields....Not a bad thing and many already have them anyway. And the walls of these tanks are much thinner than those on CO2 (for obvious reasons) and coube actually become puncture if they were to hits a rock. (not likely I know, but it IS possible)

Here is my big question/concern...why a pump? there is not as much of a market for it for a semi. I wonder if propane creates some sort of restriction on marker performance. It's low pressure, so it could have a very slow recharge rate. And it is flamable, so hammer friction could be an issue. I wonder what kind of mods would be needed to make other markers run on propane?

*edit*
Ok, so I just read the owners manual for this marker and figured out what is most likely the case, you see the ball isn't PROPELLED by propane, but by an explosion (Much like a real gun). Thats right....the large cylinder in the receiver is a combustion chamber...I bet a high rof would heat the body right up, huh?

Govinda_T

10-25-2005, 10:01 AM

:notwrthy: Oh thank God (or praise be to Allah)! A mod is here! :)

cheddarbob

10-25-2005, 03:39 PM

BAN ME BAN ME! BAN ME! IM SO SAD =0( BAN ME! BAN ME! Like I really give a crap.....Please someone, write me another paragraph and place another arguement

Satanicsanta090

10-25-2005, 06:07 PM

man propane sounds like a great fuel for the paintball guns.....
sounds like tippmann is having something go on in their gun to make it even more efficient too (heating it up?) it has a spark plug in the gun lol

and dang u guys gotta quit cryin on about how dangerous u think it is.....
especially bob there making assuptions and backing em up like theyre true
as long as u have some common sense and do stuff good no flames will be burning anyone..... The chances of the entire canister exploding are pretty remote too...the only way i see that happening is if you throw one in a fire...
using a propane tank IS less safe than the airsoft way though.
and as for air pollution, Co2 canisters are bad for the environment too, but who actually cares (or even knows)? theres so little gas being shot from a pump marker I dont think even 30 of em in a close area would acutally harm an environment

kjpmkjp

10-25-2005, 06:43 PM

BAN ME BAN ME! BAN ME! IM SO SAD =0( BAN ME! BAN ME! Like I really give a crap.....Please someone, write me another paragraph and place another arguement

Honestly, you will get banned, and don't be a jerk. I now like this Propane idea but i hope it will be efficient and not have spikes in velocity like Co2. I would buy the new C3 but it's a tad too expensive for me. If they release a cheaper version of this, even if it is a pump, i'll honestly at least try it out. And here, just for cheddarbob, please provide SOLID facts on why propane is SOOO dangerous. Please, make it your last, hopefully intelligent post before a banning occurs.

Bigbadfish

10-26-2005, 10:14 AM

tippmannmandan

10-26-2005, 02:34 PM

I see it as good and bad. First off I scuba dive and the tanks are pressuresed to about 4,500 lb/in (sound famillar) and the instructors about crap there pants every time a kid drops a tank on the ground. This things even in the size of a paintball tank have enough to life my car ( 97 S-10 Blazer that weight 2 tons unloaded) of the fricken ground if release full all at once. The only think is if CO2 or HPA leaks it isn't flamable and leaves no vapors and is safer in that assumption.

Propane is good too. It's cheap, common, inert, and IS NOT pressureized to explozion will only happen if is't ignited (your smoking or a spark gets into the tank which can't happen because after this happed about five times they re-engineered the tanks so they can't). Now the only dangerous thing about propane is they if the tank leaks it can leave vapors that WILL ingnite if a spark hits them. Also it will only take a moron two seconds to say "Hey if I dip my paintballs in gasoline then fire them they shoot on fire! YEA FIREBALLS OF DEATH!" Then he shoot his friend whos shirt starts on fire and dies from 3rd degree burns on 80% of his body (that is unless they make a safety system to prevent this from happening, but I don't see a concievable way of doing this.)

CO2 is good because it's fairly common and the tanks are almost bulletproof and it comes in a liquid state so NO FIRE YEA!

HPA is good because it's redily available in someplaces and it's inert so no chem. reactions and it also is UNFLAMABLE.

Propane is good because it's EVERYWHERE! It's not pressureized so no explosion in that sense. Also you could carry 2 0z or this in a tank and fire well over 5,000 shots (I did a lot of bizarre High School math to firgure this out)

NOW THE BAD!

CO2 is bad because.....ummmm. Not to much is bad with CO2 execpt thats it's inconsistant.

HPA is bad because it could verywell kill you, your friends, and your little dog too. It's pressureized and sometimes hard to find.

Propane is bad because it is flamable and could potentialy be a problem with the whole FIREBALLS OF DEATH! thing.

There I said preaty much everything there is to say on the topic now stop with the Propane Tippmann threads.